The Truth about Mormons

[Avatar4321]

Come on, guys, let's be open here.

What froggy wants to talk about is treasure digging, magic spirits, amulets of power, seer stones, etc.

What both of you are missing is that Americans overwhelmingly believed in folk magic during the 2nd Great Awakening. Shoot, we have palm readers and fortune tellers and power preachers in my home town today.

None of this is new, guys. Come out front with what you have to say about JS and folk magic.

If that's what froggy wants to talk about, he needs to be more specific. As i doubt froggy really wants to talk about anything, I will try to answer his questions. But im not expecting alot of discussion. So I dont really see a point putting tons of effort into a response when one word will accurately sum everything up.

 

[froggy]

Thank you for your opinion. I'm not interested in trying to prove to you what I know in my heart. I really don't care if you believe me or not. We've debated enough and you have your conclusions and I have mine. It is pointless to argue with you. Would you like to contribute by asking some questions you don't have answers to yet?

What was joey first occupation?

Farming

Thats what he did as a chore for his sharecropper daddy. What was his paid job?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Avatar4321, you know I don't care about Mormonism one way or another until someone makes the statement, "The one true gospel" and blah and blah. But if it makes you happy and makes you a better human being, may God's blessings show down on you and yours. Having said that, I do find the theme of American folk magic and folk religion before the Civil War to be a fascinating subject. Mormonism certainly had its influences from it, and that means, then, it was no different than other American denominations and sectarian groups in terms of such influences.

I do have a question, and there is no trap in it all, I promise you. What do you think about seer stones and treasure digging and Joseph Smith? I am not going to jump one way or another. I am simply curious about what you think.

 

[Eightball]

Thank you for your opinion. I'm not interested in trying to prove to you what I know in my heart. I really don't care if you believe me or not. We've debated enough and you have your conclusions and I have mine. It is pointless to argue with you. Would you like to contribute by asking some questions you don't have answers to yet?

Problem is; your arguments or disagreements/differences, are in reality not with individuals on this forum but with the Word of God, the bible.

This "In my heart" stuff is exactly what gets people into trouble. First of all you have a set fleshly agenda within you that comes from the Adamic fall in the Garden, secondly, you apply that Fleshly mind condition towards formulating how you "want" God to be. J.S. jr. was not a born again person as Jesus described/explained in the Word of God/bible. Instead, J.S. Jr. created his own gospel, that best suited his worldly, sinful condition.

Mormonism is Satan's "soft ball", replacement for God's "hard ball" truth found in His Word. Mormonism has to deride the Word of God, and say it's not good enough without............thus and thus or they have no belief system at all.

Truth/Avatar.... your fight is not with individual bible Christians but with God. You have bought into the manmade gospel of a surely character named J.S. jr..

You base your personal beliefs not on the finality of God's Word, but on experiential type encounters, that totally go against the Word of God. Your verification used is elders or fellow church members rather than the inspired Word of God.

 

[Liability]

Weekend Mormon thread BUMPAGE!

 

[Avatar4321]

Problem is; your arguments or disagreements/differences, are in reality not with individuals on this forum but with the Word of God, the bible.

Which, of course, is an absolute lie because we believe the Bible. We just reject your incorrect interpretations of it. That is why we accept the very clear doctrines of the premortal life, Condescension of God, Deification of man, and the work on behalf of the dead.

This "In my heart" stuff is exactly what gets people into trouble. First of all you have a set fleshly agenda within you that comes from the Adamic fall in the Garden, secondly, you apply that Fleshly mind condition towards formulating how you "want" God to be. J.S. jr. was not a born again person as Jesus described/explained in the Word of God/bible. Instead, J.S. Jr. created his own gospel, that best suited his worldly, sinful condition.

The whole point of the Atonement is so we can become like God. So we can be joint heirs with Christ and recieve everything the Father has. The Bible is clear in this and you still continue to pretend as if its foreign to the scriptures.

Mormonism is Satan's "soft ball", replacement for God's "hard ball" truth found in His Word. Mormonism has to deride the Word of God, and say it's not good enough without............thus and thus or they have no belief system at all.

Satan wants people to believe in Christ? now that's a shocker to me. Satan is going to provide more evidence that Jesus Christ is the Savior? Satan is encouraging people to repent and come to Christ? Seriously, Satan must be pretty stupid according to you.

Truth/Avatar.... your fight is not with individual bible Christians but with God. You have bought into the manmade gospel of a surely character named J.S. jr..

I have no problem with God. I talk with Him frequently. But according to you I have to ignore what He says if its not in line with your personal interpretation of the Bible. That's where we have a problem. Because who should I believe, you or the Holy Spirit?

You dont understand the Holy Spirit. And that's alright. Not everyone does. But you wont learn from Him to find out because what if He teaches you that something youve incorrectly understood is wrong! Rather then let go of the pride, and accept more of the Word of God, you would rather cling onto your own understanding.

You base your personal beliefs not on the finality of God's Word, but on experiential type encounters, that totally go against the Word of God. Your verification used is elders or fellow church members rather than the inspired Word of God.

No, I base my personal beliefs on the Holy Spirit. Like all disciples of Christ have done in every age of man. The same source that inspired the Scriptures you claim to follow. The same source teaches men what the scriptures mean.

Christ didnt tell the Apostles to wait until they had the scriptures before they preached after his Ascension. He told them to wait for the Holy Ghost. And the Holy Ghost would teach them all things. It's the Holy Ghost that gives us the ability to preach with power. It's the Holy Ghost that sanctifies us.

Why are you so determined to ignore Him?

 

[froggy]

Problem is; your arguments or disagreements/differences, are in reality not with individuals on this forum but with the Word of God, the bible.

Which, of course, is an absolute lie because we believe the Bible. We just reject your incorrect interpretations of it. That is why we accept the very clear doctrines of the premortal life, Condescension of God, Deification of man, and the work on behalf of the dead.

This "In my heart" stuff is exactly what gets people into trouble. First of all you have a set fleshly agenda within you that comes from the Adamic fall in the Garden, secondly, you apply that Fleshly mind condition towards formulating how you "want" God to be. J.S. jr. was not a born again person as Jesus described/explained in the Word of God/bible. Instead, J.S. Jr. created his own gospel, that best suited his worldly, sinful condition.

The whole point of the Atonement is so we can become like God. So we can be joint heirs with Christ and recieve everything the Father has. The Bible is clear in this and you still continue to pretend as if its foreign to the scriptures.




Satan wants people to believe in Christ? now that's a shocker to me. Satan is going to provide more evidence that Jesus Christ is the Savior? Satan is encouraging people to repent and come to Christ? Seriously, Satan must be pretty stupid according to you.

Truth/Avatar.... your fight is not with individual bible Christians but with God. You have bought into the manmade gospel of a surely character named J.S. jr..

I have no problem with God. I talk with Him frequently. But according to you I have to ignore what He says if its not in line with your personal interpretation of the Bible. That's where we have a problem. Because who should I believe, you or the Holy Spirit?

You dont understand the Holy Spirit. And that's alright. Not everyone does. But you wont learn from Him to find out because what if He teaches you that something youve incorrectly understood is wrong! Rather then let go of the pride, and accept more of the Word of God, you would rather cling onto your own understanding.

You base your personal beliefs not on the finality of God's Word, but on experiential type encounters, that totally go against the Word of God. Your verification used is elders or fellow church members rather than the inspired Word of God.

No, I base my personal beliefs on the Holy Spirit. Like all disciples of Christ have done in every age of man. The same source that inspired the Scriptures you claim to follow. The same source teaches men what the scriptures mean.

Christ didnt tell the Apostles to wait until they had the scriptures before they preached after his Ascension. He told them to wait for the Holy Ghost. And the Holy Ghost would teach them all things. It's the Holy Ghost that gives us the ability to preach with power. It's the Holy Ghost that sanctifies us.

Why are you so determined to ignore Him?

Do you believe the lord Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay your sins debt?

 

[Avatar4321]

Do you believe the lord Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay your sins debt?

Yeah. If you read the Book of Mormon, you'd know this.

 

[Skeptik]

Problem is; your arguments or disagreements/differences, are in reality not with individuals on this forum but with the Word of God, the bible.

Which, of course, is an absolute lie because we believe the Bible. We just reject your incorrect interpretations of it. That is why we accept the very clear doctrines of the premortal life, Condescension of God, Deification of man, and the work on behalf of the dead.



The whole point of the Atonement is so we can become like God. So we can be joint heirs with Christ and recieve everything the Father has. The Bible is clear in this and you still continue to pretend as if its foreign to the scriptures.




Satan wants people to believe in Christ? now that's a shocker to me. Satan is going to provide more evidence that Jesus Christ is the Savior? Satan is encouraging people to repent and come to Christ? Seriously, Satan must be pretty stupid according to you.



I have no problem with God. I talk with Him frequently. But according to you I have to ignore what He says if its not in line with your personal interpretation of the Bible. That's where we have a problem. Because who should I believe, you or the Holy Spirit?

You dont understand the Holy Spirit. And that's alright. Not everyone does. But you wont learn from Him to find out because what if He teaches you that something youve incorrectly understood is wrong! Rather then let go of the pride, and accept more of the Word of God, you would rather cling onto your own understanding.

You base your personal beliefs not on the finality of God's Word, but on experiential type encounters, that totally go against the Word of God. Your verification used is elders or fellow church members rather than the inspired Word of God.

No, I base my personal beliefs on the Holy Spirit. Like all disciples of Christ have done in every age of man. The same source that inspired the Scriptures you claim to follow. The same source teaches men what the scriptures mean.

Christ didnt tell the Apostles to wait until they had the scriptures before they preached after his Ascension. He told them to wait for the Holy Ghost. And the Holy Ghost would teach them all things. It's the Holy Ghost that gives us the ability to preach with power. It's the Holy Ghost that sanctifies us.

Why are you so determined to ignore Him?

Do you believe the lord Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay your sins debt?

It actually takes very little research to confirm that Mormons believe this:

Third Article of Faith:

We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

 

[Eightball]

Problem is; your arguments or disagreements/differences, are in reality not with individuals on this forum but with the Word of God, the bible.

Which, of course, is an absolute lie because we believe the Bible. We just reject your incorrect interpretations of it. That is why we accept the very clear doctrines of the premortal life, Condescension of God, Deification of man, and the work on behalf of the dead.

This "In my heart" stuff is exactly what gets people into trouble. First of all you have a set fleshly agenda within you that comes from the Adamic fall in the Garden, secondly, you apply that Fleshly mind condition towards formulating how you "want" God to be. J.S. jr. was not a born again person as Jesus described/explained in the Word of God/bible. Instead, J.S. Jr. created his own gospel, that best suited his worldly, sinful condition.

The whole point of the Atonement is so we can become like God. So we can be joint heirs with Christ and recieve everything the Father has. The Bible is clear in this and you still continue to pretend as if its foreign to the scriptures.




Satan wants people to believe in Christ? now that's a shocker to me. Satan is going to provide more evidence that Jesus Christ is the Savior? Satan is encouraging people to repent and come to Christ? Seriously, Satan must be pretty stupid according to you.

Truth/Avatar.... your fight is not with individual bible Christians but with God. You have bought into the manmade gospel of a surely character named J.S. jr..

I have no problem with God. I talk with Him frequently. But according to you I have to ignore what He says if its not in line with your personal interpretation of the Bible. That's where we have a problem. Because who should I believe, you or the Holy Spirit?

You dont understand the Holy Spirit. And that's alright. Not everyone does. But you wont learn from Him to find out because what if He teaches you that something youve incorrectly understood is wrong! Rather then let go of the pride, and accept more of the Word of God, you would rather cling onto your own understanding.

You base your personal beliefs not on the finality of God's Word, but on experiential type encounters, that totally go against the Word of God. Your verification used is elders or fellow church members rather than the inspired Word of God.

No, I base my personal beliefs on the Holy Spirit. Like all disciples of Christ have done in every age of man. The same source that inspired the Scriptures you claim to follow. The same source teaches men what the scriptures mean.

Christ didnt tell the Apostles to wait until they had the scriptures before they preached after his Ascension. He told them to wait for the Holy Ghost. And the Holy Ghost would teach them all things. It's the Holy Ghost that gives us the ability to preach with power. It's the Holy Ghost that sanctifies us.

Why are you so determined to ignore Him?

Again you've backed yourself into a perverbial corner. First of all, your Mormon jesus, is only biblical to the extent that your prophets say that the bible is correct. You know that for a fact.

This is where you take a right turn from the biblical Jesus, and turn Him into mere man who became glorified like any of you good Mormons may also become. I.E........You believe in a progression of gods, saviors, Adams and Eves for a myriad of never ending new planets, Earth just being one of those myriads. I.E. your Mormon jesus is not unique, as in God, Creator, one with God the Father, in purpose, character, and the "only" Son of God. No where in the bible does it teach that Jesus had a bro, named Lucifer. That is a big fat, bold faced lie, spoken by your prophets. In the bible/Word of God, Lucifer is an angel, who created, where Jesus is not created, but took on human flesh within Mary's womb. He once sat at the right hand of God, and committed Himself to the Father's plan of salvation, and allowed Himself to be incarnated in the flesh, starting out as a baby, then growing up to the ripe age of 33, and letting Adamic man crucify Him for Adamic man's sins.

You Mormons do not accept Jesus as the one and only Son of God, who is the Word, and the Word became flesh, and the Word was with God, and is God.(John Chapter one). Instead your jesus is again just a good man that lived a good god-obedient life, and was given godhood because of that. Instead God says in the bible, "My ways are not your ways" Also He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. That means "pre-existent"..........I.E. No beginning to His life, and no end. Not the Mormon Jesus/god.........He was a created being, and reached godhood through works.

The biblical God says that we reach salvation through faith in Jesus' atoning work, that replaced us on the cross. Not only did He die for the sins of those who would believe in Him and receive eternal life in total communion with God Almight, but He died for the whole world. Sadly not the whole world will bend a knee and cry out "You are Lord of everything, and that includes my life, Jesus!".

Instead your religion or belief system builds it's foundation of "truth" upon fuzziness or subjective experiential, visions, burning bosoms, dreams, etc...

Mormons at the door are always telling potential converts, to "pray" and ask God if Mormonism is the "way" or "truth". Right there the red flag goes up. All knowledgeable bible Christians know that the Truth of God is not by prayer confirmation, but through the written, protected Word, that has not changed for the thousands of years that it has been passed on or translated/copied myriads of times till nowadays. God is omnipotent, and that is an anathema to the Mormon doctrine. Why? Cause if God is all omnipotent, then that means when He inspired both O.T. and N.T. authors, He/God in His almight omnipotence could and did protect the accuracy of His gospel throughout the ages down to now. The Mormon doctrine stands upon non bible authenticated communique's hopefully from God, but they/Mormon refuse to question the source, cause their heart confirms it. God says that the human heart is desperately wicked, and deceitful.......I.E. it can't be trusted. That's why He/God omnipotently protected through eons of time His inspired Word so that we can believe, and receive the Holy Spirit/Spirit of Jesus, and total communion with God. We are restored back to that Eden era where we and God have a Spiritual tie, that can't be broken.

The Mormon god, Mormon Jesus, and Mormon holy spirit, are not biblical.

The Holy Spirit was promised to us by the soon ascending Christ to His disciples and all who would believe in Him/Christ as Lord and Savior in the future. It was referred to the Might Counselor, that would lead men/women ways that would allow them to discern the scriptures, that were Spiritual in origin.

This is why unsaved man cannot discern the power, and presence of God in the bible. Without the Holy Spirit indwelling and having control over that person's soul, the bible is just a story book of history in the Middle East.

The BOM cannot be Spiritually discerned, nor does it feed the true Christian, as it has come from the fleshly imagination and plagarism of a very lost man.

So many cults have popped up over the years because an individual attending a church got treated badly, or felt neglected in some way, and decided that they would find God their way. This is when they become "fresh meat" for Satan's deceptions. There is but one Gospel, and doesn't need renewing, nor does it have gaps in it that need filling-in. That is all the signs of a cultic, and Satanic counterfeit.
********
True Christians ultimately must test all things with God's Word. That goes for visions, audible messages, teachings, sermons, dreams, and any phenomena that claims to be of divine origin. If those phenomena fail the test of God's Word, then they must be refused by that believer. Otherwise that Christian will end up mislead, and gradually drift away from God's will.

Mormons test their visions by sharing them with another Mormon who in turn has also had confirmation via some subjective way, who in turn confirms it with another Mormon. It is all man-confirmed and not God-confirmed.
*********

 

[froggy]

Which, of course, is an absolute lie because we believe the Bible. We just reject your incorrect interpretations of it. That is why we accept the very clear doctrines of the premortal life, Condescension of God, Deification of man, and the work on behalf of the dead.



The whole point of the Atonement is so we can become like God. So we can be joint heirs with Christ and recieve everything the Father has. The Bible is clear in this and you still continue to pretend as if its foreign to the scriptures.




Satan wants people to believe in Christ? now that's a shocker to me. Satan is going to provide more evidence that Jesus Christ is the Savior? Satan is encouraging people to repent and come to Christ? Seriously, Satan must be pretty stupid according to you.



I have no problem with God. I talk with Him frequently. But according to you I have to ignore what He says if its not in line with your personal interpretation of the Bible. That's where we have a problem. Because who should I believe, you or the Holy Spirit?

You dont understand the Holy Spirit. And that's alright. Not everyone does. But you wont learn from Him to find out because what if He teaches you that something youve incorrectly understood is wrong! Rather then let go of the pride, and accept more of the Word of God, you would rather cling onto your own understanding.



No, I base my personal beliefs on the Holy Spirit. Like all disciples of Christ have done in every age of man. The same source that inspired the Scriptures you claim to follow. The same source teaches men what the scriptures mean.

Christ didnt tell the Apostles to wait until they had the scriptures before they preached after his Ascension. He told them to wait for the Holy Ghost. And the Holy Ghost would teach them all things. It's the Holy Ghost that gives us the ability to preach with power. It's the Holy Ghost that sanctifies us.

Why are you so determined to ignore Him?

Do you believe the lord Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay your sins debt?

It actually takes very little research to confirm that Mormons believe this:

Third Article of Faith:

We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

Dodsging the questions again, direct answer yes you do, or no you don,t, no in betweens.

 

[Avatar4321]

Again you've backed yourself into a perverbial corner. First of all, your Mormon jesus, is only biblical to the extent that your prophets say that the bible is correct. You know that for a fact.

There is no corner. You know that we believe the Bible to be the word of God. We simply disagree with the very unbiblical idea that the Bible is all that God has ever and will ever say.

This is where you take a right turn from the biblical Jesus, and turn Him into mere man who became glorified like any of you good Mormons may also become. I.E........You believe in a progression of gods, saviors, Adams and Eves for a myriad of never ending new planets, Earth just being one of those myriads. I.E. your Mormon jesus is not unique, as in God, Creator, one with God the Father, in purpose, character, and the "only" Son of God. No where in the bible does it teach that Jesus had a bro, named Lucifer. That is a big fat, bold faced lie, spoken by your prophets. In the bible/Word of God, Lucifer is an angel, who created, where Jesus is not created, but took on human flesh within Mary's womb. He once sat at the right hand of God, and committed Himself to the Father's plan of salvation, and allowed Himself to be incarnated in the flesh, starting out as a baby, then growing up to the ripe age of 33, and letting Adamic man crucify Him for Adamic man's sins.

Christ was a man. He descended below all things to lift us above all things. He chose to be born in the manger so He could give us a second birth. Are you saying Christ didnt atone for the sins of the world? Where on earth did you get that idea from the NT?

You Mormons do not accept Jesus as the one and only Son of God, who is the Word, and the Word became flesh, and the Word was with God, and is God.(John Chapter one).

YEah, we do. Simply lying about our doctrine doesnt really help your position. Besides you just denied that Christ became flesh. You just complained that it was unbiblical in the previous paragraph.

Instead your jesus is again just a good man that lived a good god-obedient life, and was given godhood because of that. Instead God says in the bible, "My ways are not your ways" Also He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. That means "pre-existent"..........I.E. No beginning to His life, and no end. Not the Mormon Jesus/god.........He was a created being, and reached godhood through works.

You clearly either don't know mormon doctrine or refuse to honestly characterize it. Ill give you a very clear picture of who Christ is.

The Living Christ

Now will you please stop misrepresenting Mormon doctrine? If you disagree with us fine. But stop telling us we believe things when you very much know we dont. Or tell us we dont believe things we very much do.

The biblical God says that we reach salvation through faith in Jesus' atoning work, that replaced us on the cross. Not only did He die for the sins of those who would believe in Him and receive eternal life in total communion with God Almight, but He died for the whole world. Sadly not the whole world will bend a knee and cry out "You are Lord of everything, and that includes my life, Jesus!".

We are in complete agreement that we are saved through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. You know this. Stop pretending otherwise.

Oh and Froggy disagrees that the Bible says we are saved by Christ's work.

Instead your religion or belief system builds it's foundation of "truth" upon fuzziness or subjective experiential, visions, burning bosoms, dreams, etc...

The foundation of the Church of Jesus Christ is the Testimony of the Apostles that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who suffered and atoned for the sins of the world, then rose on the Third day. It is built upon the foundation of Apostles and Prophets with Christ being the Chief Cornerstone.

The Holy Ghost is not subjective. He is real. I can promise you that because Ive learned from the Holy Spirit. Visions happen. The Spirit pricks the heart and God can communicate through dreams. Or do you disbelieve the Bible?

You know, you've never answered my question despite asking it multiple times. Have miracles ceased?

Mormons at the door are always telling potential converts, to "pray" and ask God if Mormonism is the "way" or "truth". Right there the red flag goes up. All knowledgeable bible Christians know that the Truth of God is not by prayer confirmation, but through the written, protected Word, that has not changed for the thousands of years that it has been passed on or translated/copied myriads of times till nowadays. God is omnipotent, and that is an anathema to the Mormon doctrine. Why? Cause if God is all omnipotent, then that means when He inspired both O.T. and N.T. authors, He/God in His almight omnipotence could and did protect the accuracy of His gospel throughout the ages down to now. The Mormon doctrine stands upon non bible authenticated communique's hopefully from God, but they/Mormon refuse to question the source, cause their heart confirms it. God says that the human heart is desperately wicked, and deceitful.......I.E. it can't be trusted. That's why He/God omnipotently protected through eons of time His inspired Word so that we can believe, and receive the Holy Spirit/Spirit of Jesus, and total communion with God. We are restored back to that Eden era where we and God have a Spiritual tie, that can't be broken.

What on earth are you talking about? Are you honestly going to tell me that God doesnt want us to pray to Him and trust in His Holy Spirit? Are you honestly going to tell me that He wants you to interpret the scriptures according to your own reasoning? How well has that worked out? There are thousands of different denominations all believing the Bible yet believing contradictory doctrines. Belief in the false doctrine of the Bible alone has divided and weakened Christianity nearly to a breaking point. There is only one source of Authority and that is God. There is only one way to learn and that is through the Spirit. The scriptures are given to us as tools to learn through the Spirit.

Why are you so resistant to prayer? God wants us to pray. He wants us to ask and to seek answers. And He said He will answer us if we do so, that we will find answers. And you would rather trust in your own mind rather than simply asking God? Who do you think is telling you not to pray? I can guarentee you that it isnt God doing that.

We are not to rely solely on the instruction of the past, we are supposed to get instruction for our own lives. The Revelations to Adam couldnt save Enoch. He had to recieve His own. The Revelations to Enoch couldnt save Noah. Noah had to recieve His own revelation which taught Him to build the Ark. The Revelation to Noah couldnt have saved Abraham. What do you think it would profit to trust in Noah's revelation and build and Ark and gather the animals together when the Flood was long past???

Moses recieved the Law of Moses through revelation. It was through Peter's visions and His revelation that the Lord revealed the Law fulfilled in Christ so that it's practice should cease. It was through Pauls revelations that He became converted and became the missionary machine to the Gentiles. He couldnt rely on Moses or Elijah's writings.

Yet you would have us believe that simply because you have erroneously declared the heavens closed and the Bible as all there ever is and ever will be, that we are somehow supposed to rely solely on their experiences rather than have our own. How are you supposed to have a relationship with a God you dont believe will teach you? How do you have a relationship with God if all you do is read a book and have no experience with Him? Your positions just dont make any sense.

The Mormon god, Mormon Jesus, and Mormon holy spirit, are not biblical.

Ive seen no evidence that your god is Biblical. In fact, your god appears to be the Bible rather than our Father who inspired the Bible. You care more about understanding it than listening to Him.

The Holy Spirit was promised to us by the soon ascending Christ to His disciples and all who would believe in Him/Christ as Lord and Savior in the future. It was referred to the Might Counselor, that would lead men/women ways that would allow them to discern the scriptures, that were Spiritual in origin.

The scriptures werent even written at the time. And it continued to reveal scriptures to them. Which is superior? The scriptures or the God who reveals them?

This is why unsaved man cannot discern the power, and presence of God in the bible. Without the Holy Spirit indwelling and having control over that person's soul, the bible is just a story book of history in the Middle East.

Are you trying to tell us that you arent saved because you refuse and reject simple doctrines spoken clearly of in the Bible? Tell me, How have you recieved the Holy Ghost?

The BOM cannot be Spiritually discerned, nor does it feed the true Christian, as it has come from the fleshly imagination and plagarism of a very lost man.

Seems to me that the Book of Mormon is not discernable to you for the same reason the Bible's secrets are not discernable. You've admitted it.

And the Book of Mormon wasnt and cannot be plagarized. If so who plagarized it?

So many cults have popped up over the years because an individual attending a church got treated badly, or felt neglected in some way, and decided that they would find God their way. This is when they become "fresh meat" for Satan's deceptions. There is but one Gospel, and doesn't need renewing, nor does it have gaps in it that need filling-in. That is all the signs of a cultic, and Satanic counterfeit.

Has anyone but you claimed there was another Gospel? Are you saying that Jesus Christ isnt the Son of God who atoned for our sins? Because I dont know any other good news.

And if you are correct and you believe in a gospel other than that, why exactly is your gospel the correct one when the Bible teaches the one I believe in?

True Christians ultimately must test all things with God's Word. That goes for visions, audible messages, teachings, sermons, dreams, and any phenomena that claims to be of divine origin. If those phenomena fail the test of God's Word, then they must be refused by that believer. Otherwise that Christian will end up mislead, and gradually drift away from God's will.

Again, you put the tool above the Creator. You miss the entire point of what the Bible is teaching you. The Bible is teaching you how to know God. And rather than use the information it teaches and praying and learning from the Spirit, you obsess over the tool. That attitude makes no sense. It's like a child given a present and playing with the box it comes in rather than enjoying thet gift inside. Sure the box is useful and can be fun, but you are missing it's point.

Mormons test their visions by sharing them with another Mormon who in turn has also had confirmation via some subjective way, who in turn confirms it with another Mormon. It is all man-confirmed and not God-confirmed.
*********

We test our visions and revelations with the Holy Ghost. You see the scriptures have taught us how to discern the Spirit and we do the best we can to have faith in God and not trust ourselves. Denying that isnt going to make what you say accurate.

 

[Liability]

Do you believe the lord Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay your sins debt?

It actually takes very little research to confirm that Mormons believe this:

Third Article of Faith:

We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

Dodsging the questions again, direct answer yes you do, or no you don,t, no in betweens.

Holy shit. No pun intended. What was unclear to froggy about "We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."

 

[Avatar4321]

Do you believe the lord Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay your sins debt?

It actually takes very little research to confirm that Mormons believe this:

Third Article of Faith:

We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

Dodsging the questions again, direct answer yes you do, or no you don,t, no in betweens.

How on earth is clearly stating yes we believe that Christ paid for our sins and here is the verse to show you dodging your question?

 

[Skeptik]

Do you believe the lord Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay your sins debt?

It actually takes very little research to confirm that Mormons believe this:

Third Article of Faith:

We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

Dodsging the questions again, direct answer yes you do, or no you don,t, no in betweens.

You asked whether Mormons believe that Christ died on the cross to pay for our sins. I showed you that they do.

I don't think you really are seriously asking questions. You seem to be to be engaged in some kind of juvenile game of "gotcha."

 

[Christopher]

Problem is; your arguments or disagreements/differences, are in reality not with individuals on this forum but with the Word of God, the bible.

Which, of course, is an absolute lie because we believe the Bible. We just reject your incorrect interpretations of it. That is why we accept the very clear doctrines of the premortal life, Condescension of God, Deification of man, and the work on behalf of the dead.



The whole point of the Atonement is so we can become like God. So we can be joint heirs with Christ and recieve everything the Father has. The Bible is clear in this and you still continue to pretend as if its foreign to the scriptures.




Satan wants people to believe in Christ? now that's a shocker to me. Satan is going to provide more evidence that Jesus Christ is the Savior? Satan is encouraging people to repent and come to Christ? Seriously, Satan must be pretty stupid according to you.



I have no problem with God. I talk with Him frequently. But according to you I have to ignore what He says if its not in line with your personal interpretation of the Bible. That's where we have a problem. Because who should I believe, you or the Holy Spirit?

You dont understand the Holy Spirit. And that's alright. Not everyone does. But you wont learn from Him to find out because what if He teaches you that something youve incorrectly understood is wrong! Rather then let go of the pride, and accept more of the Word of God, you would rather cling onto your own understanding.

You base your personal beliefs not on the finality of God's Word, but on experiential type encounters, that totally go against the Word of God. Your verification used is elders or fellow church members rather than the inspired Word of God.

No, I base my personal beliefs on the Holy Spirit. Like all disciples of Christ have done in every age of man. The same source that inspired the Scriptures you claim to follow. The same source teaches men what the scriptures mean.

Christ didnt tell the Apostles to wait until they had the scriptures before they preached after his Ascension. He told them to wait for the Holy Ghost. And the Holy Ghost would teach them all things. It's the Holy Ghost that gives us the ability to preach with power. It's the Holy Ghost that sanctifies us.

Why are you so determined to ignore Him?

Again you've backed yourself into a perverbial corner. First of all, your Mormon jesus, is only biblical to the extent that your prophets say that the bible is correct. You know that for a fact.

This is where you take a right turn from the biblical Jesus, and turn Him into mere man who became glorified like any of you good Mormons may also become. I.E........You believe in a progression of gods, saviors, Adams and Eves for a myriad of never ending new planets, Earth just being one of those myriads. I.E. your Mormon jesus is not unique, as in God, Creator, one with God the Father, in purpose, character, and the "only" Son of God. No where in the bible does it teach that Jesus had a bro, named Lucifer. That is a big fat, bold faced lie, spoken by your prophets. In the bible/Word of God, Lucifer is an angel, who created, where Jesus is not created, but took on human flesh within Mary's womb. He once sat at the right hand of God, and committed Himself to the Father's plan of salvation, and allowed Himself to be incarnated in the flesh, starting out as a baby, then growing up to the ripe age of 33, and letting Adamic man crucify Him for Adamic man's sins.

You Mormons do not accept Jesus as the one and only Son of God, who is the Word, and the Word became flesh, and the Word was with God, and is God.(John Chapter one). Instead your jesus is again just a good man that lived a good god-obedient life, and was given godhood because of that. Instead God says in the bible, "My ways are not your ways" Also He is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. That means "pre-existent"..........I.E. No beginning to His life, and no end. Not the Mormon Jesus/god.........He was a created being, and reached godhood through works.

The biblical God says that we reach salvation through faith in Jesus' atoning work, that replaced us on the cross. Not only did He die for the sins of those who would believe in Him and receive eternal life in total communion with God Almight, but He died for the whole world. Sadly not the whole world will bend a knee and cry out "You are Lord of everything, and that includes my life, Jesus!".

Instead your religion or belief system builds it's foundation of "truth" upon fuzziness or subjective experiential, visions, burning bosoms, dreams, etc...

Mormons at the door are always telling potential converts, to "pray" and ask God if Mormonism is the "way" or "truth". Right there the red flag goes up. All knowledgeable bible Christians know that the Truth of God is not by prayer confirmation, but through the written, protected Word, that has not changed for the thousands of years that it has been passed on or translated/copied myriads of times till nowadays. God is omnipotent, and that is an anathema to the Mormon doctrine. Why? Cause if God is all omnipotent, then that means when He inspired both O.T. and N.T. authors, He/God in His almight omnipotence could and did protect the accuracy of His gospel throughout the ages down to now. The Mormon doctrine stands upon non bible authenticated communique's hopefully from God, but they/Mormon refuse to question the source, cause their heart confirms it. God says that the human heart is desperately wicked, and deceitful.......I.E. it can't be trusted. That's why He/God omnipotently protected through eons of time His inspired Word so that we can believe, and receive the Holy Spirit/Spirit of Jesus, and total communion with God. We are restored back to that Eden era where we and God have a Spiritual tie, that can't be broken.

The Mormon god, Mormon Jesus, and Mormon holy spirit, are not biblical.

The Holy Spirit was promised to us by the soon ascending Christ to His disciples and all who would believe in Him/Christ as Lord and Savior in the future. It was referred to the Might Counselor, that would lead men/women ways that would allow them to discern the scriptures, that were Spiritual in origin.

This is why unsaved man cannot discern the power, and presence of God in the bible. Without the Holy Spirit indwelling and having control over that person's soul, the bible is just a story book of history in the Middle East.

The BOM cannot be Spiritually discerned, nor does it feed the true Christian, as it has come from the fleshly imagination and plagarism of a very lost man.

So many cults have popped up over the years because an individual attending a church got treated badly, or felt neglected in some way, and decided that they would find God their way. This is when they become "fresh meat" for Satan's deceptions. There is but one Gospel, and doesn't need renewing, nor does it have gaps in it that need filling-in. That is all the signs of a cultic, and Satanic counterfeit.
********
True Christians ultimately must test all things with God's Word. That goes for visions, audible messages, teachings, sermons, dreams, and any phenomena that claims to be of divine origin. If those phenomena fail the test of God's Word, then they must be refused by that believer. Otherwise that Christian will end up mislead, and gradually drift away from God's will.

Mormons test their visions by sharing them with another Mormon who in turn has also had confirmation via some subjective way, who in turn confirms it with another Mormon. It is all man-confirmed and not God-confirmed.
*********

First of all, all “Mormons” do not have “visions”, just prophets/seers. Second, we stick to the Bible when it says that things of God are only spiritually discerned. I have already quoted 1 Corinthians chapter 2, verses 10-11 in response to you earlier (which you ignored) where it says that we can only know the things of God through His Spirit. I also believe in Galatians 5:22 where it says the fruit of the Spirit is “love, joy, peace”, etc.

I believe that God communicates to us through these “good” emotions as we attempt to communicate with Him in prayer. Love is the universal language, so it makes sense He could communicate with everyone that way. Our heart has to be open and ready for an answer and that is typically the problem with us.

Please answer a few of my questions, so that I can better understand your position on how we know whether something is from God or not. Here goes: First, if you have not prayed and asked God that what you have read in the Bible is true, what method have you used to actually know that everything contained in the Bible is the Word of God? Second, is the method you used to know this any more or less subjective than through the way I described?

 

[Liability]

The discussion just got elevated! Worthy of a bump!

 

[froggy]

the trouble with mormons are they believe everything joe wrote in the book of mormon, but believe only parts of what the apostals who were with jesus wrote.

 

[Avatar4321]

the trouble with mormons are they believe everything joe wrote in the book of mormon, but believe only parts of what the apostals who were with jesus wrote.

What part of the Book of Mormon differs from the testimony of the Apostles?

 

[froggy]

the trouble with mormons are they believe everything joe wrote in the book of mormon, but believe only parts of what the apostals who were with jesus wrote.

What part of the Book of Mormon differs from the testimony of the Apostles?

Do you believe the entire king james bible?