The Truth about Mormons

[strollingbones]

surely in 3000 plus posts this is not the first time you have spoken of these beliefs?

 

[Truthspeaker]

and that the native americans are a tribe of israel?

Yes, many of the native americans are of the various tribes of Israel.

 

[Truthspeaker]

and tell us again where the garden of eden was?

When the earth was of a different climate and in it's pangeaic state, The garden was located in what is present day Missouri. I know it's another one of our less known facts.

 

[Truthspeaker]

i am not mocking you. i was simply asking questions. sorry you feel the need to be defensive.

your beliefs are your own...

Not defensive. Just expectant of the mockery which comes with being a Mormon. I'll be fine.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Hold it--Wait--Are you telling me that you believe that God is a space alien??

I reasoned it out through the use of theological claims and a priori logic, but some believers here got their panties in a wad and refused to accept it!!

At last, we have a christian that admits the truth!!! God is an E.T.!!

Space Alien usually brings this image to mind

But really this is more like it:

 

[Truthspeaker]

surely in 3000 plus posts this is not the first time you have spoken of these beliefs?

Certainly not.

 

[Truthspeaker]

i am reading "a higher authority" which deals with the mormon church and their core beliefs.

That's cool. Who's it written by?

 

[strollingbones]

stephen white

 

[Avatar4321]

stephen white

Interesting. Never heard of him or it. How is it?

 

[Truthspeaker]

I'm going to introduce an interesting new aspect to this thread. I am going to do a short expose on 1 Book of Mormon Character per day:

Today's person of the day?

Ammon

He lived in 90 BC and as a youth among the Nephites was very rebellious. He joined a gang led by Alma, and consisted of he and his brothers who were sons of the Nephite King Mosiah, in the which they committed many crimes but also fought to destroy the church of God and it's followers. After a miraculous conversion he embarked on a 14 year mission to spread the word of God among the Lamanites, a civilization which had broken away from the Nephites and although related were visciously hateful towards all Nephites and often killed them on site.

When he approached the people he was bound and taken before one of the local kings and astonished him by requesting to be his servant. He was put to work tending the kings sheep. A dangerous job since it required warding off marauders who often would scatter the flocks for sport. This would often result in the death of the herders who failed to protect the flocks. For the king executed servants who failed him.
While on the job many of the bandits came to scatter the flocks while Ammon was with the other servants. What followed after would become the most famous of all the doings of Ammon. He instructed the other servants to encircle the sheep "while I go and contend with these men." The power of God fell on him much like it fell upon David when he slew Goliath. The bandits were "in number not a few."
They began hurling stones at him with their slings. They all missed and during the crossfire Ammon killed 6 bandits with his sling. This angered the marauders and they charged him with their swords but every man who lifted his arm to strike Ammon had his arm chopped off by Ammon's skilled swordsmanship. During the attacks he killed their leader with his sword and the band fled after the arms and bodies piled up. 7 total were killed and a heap of dismembered arms were gathered by the shepherds and carried before the king as a testament to Ammon's doings.

And the arms were "not few in number." This act caused great amazement throughout the king's hall and inspired a fear of him as well. They thought he was a god or sent from the Great Spirit to destroy them.
The King asked to speak with Ammon but didn't know what to say and after an hour of silence finally asked Ammon who he was and what was his purpose in coming to them. Ammon used this moment to influence the king to believe in God and His Son Jesus who would come soon among their people. This began a chain of events that led to one of the greatest conversions of all time.

The King and all his people in that region became converts to the Lord and friends to the Nephites.

 

[Skeptik]

This Stephen White, the author? What does he have to do with religion?

Say, Truthspeaker, herding sheep in the Americas? Are you sure?

 

[barry1960]

I am not a Mormon myself, but I do have an interest in their history. My dad grew up in Salt Lake City and my great grandfather was Brigham Young Junior. That makes Brigham Young my great great grandfather. Since he had 56 wives and 20,000 descendents, my ancestory is certainly not unique.

One thing that troubles me is Brigham Young's history regarding the Mountain Meadows massacre back in the 1850's. I believe about 150 unarmed settlers were massacred by Mormons. Originally the Mormons hoped to disguise themselves as Indians, but when that ruse failed they talked the settlers into disarming, then executed them. Historians do not know how complicit Brigham Young was in this matter, but most agree that at the very least he turned a blind eye to the incident.

I would hate to think that my great great grandfather was a mass murder. He does have a university named after him. What's next, the Charles Manson Institute of Technology? (I am not mocking you, just having a little fun. Although as a Christian I reject you religion, I respect that you take time to explain it on this very contentious message board). I am interested in your take on this historical incident.

 

[strollingbones]

This Stephen White, the author? What does he have to do with religion?

Say, Truthspeaker, herding sheep in the Americas? Are you sure?

the book is a murder mystery....takes place in utah and deals with the mormon church and the core beliefs of mormons.

 

[Truthspeaker]

This Stephen White, the author? What does he have to do with religion?

Say, Truthspeaker, herding sheep in the Americas? Are you sure?

Actually, I say sheep, but I stand corrected. The text says "flocks" and not sheep.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I am not a Mormon myself, but I do have an interest in their history. My dad grew up in Salt Lake City and my great grandfather was Brigham Young Junior. That makes Brigham Young my great great grandfather. Since he had 56 wives and 20,000 descendents, my ancestory is certainly not unique.

One thing that troubles me is Brigham Young's history regarding the Mountain Meadows massacre back in the 1850's. I believe about 150 unarmed settlers were massacred by Mormons. Originally the Mormons hoped to disguise themselves as Indians, but when that ruse failed they talked the settlers into disarming, then executed them. Historians do not know how complicit Brigham Young was in this matter, but most agree that at the very least he turned a blind eye to the incident.

I would hate to think that my great great grandfather was a mass murder. He does have a university named after him. What's next, the Charles Manson Institute of Technology? (I am not mocking you, just having a little fun. Although as a Christian I reject you religion, I respect that you take time to explain it on this very contentious message board). I am interested in your take on this historical incident.

I don't know how numerous my addresses on this issue have been but rest assured, you haven't read the many discourses I've given on the subject. I advise you to read from the beginning or search the thread using the tools "search this thread."

I'm tired of repeating myself sometimes but for your sake I'll sum up the more detailed explanation I've given earlier:

the historical account shows that Brigham Young had nothing to do with the sinful slaughter perpetrated by that band of members of our church. It has been proven that Brigham Young's letter reached the recipients too late telling the mormons in that area to "let them(the arkansas travelers) alone. You must not meddle with them."

Upon hearing of the atrocity it is reported he wept bitterly at the news. He condemned the unjustified cruelty of the murderers and was certainly the opposite of a mass murderer if you had read any of his teachings regarding the love of Christ and peace.

The murderers either fled, turned themselves in and all were punished according to the law and were obviously excommunicated from the church. This was NOT by order of the church and anyone who knows even a smidgeon of our doctrine must know that we teach the opposite of violence.

 

[Skeptik]

This Stephen White, the author? What does he have to do with religion?

Say, Truthspeaker, herding sheep in the Americas? Are you sure?

Actually, I say sheep, but I stand corrected. The text says "flocks" and not sheep.

The only flocks that they had in the Americas before Columbus were of llamas an alpacas. That's one of the questions that make one wonder about the Book of Mormon: mention of horses and even elephants. Those things simply didn't exist here at that time. Ditto olive trees.

Don't you wonder why old world plants and animals were ascribed to a new world culture that didn't know them?

 

[Truthspeaker]

The only flocks that they had in the Americas before Columbus were of llamas an alpacas.

that is simply not true. There are discoveries that have been ignored and the other major problem with that notion is that only 2% of all mesoamerican sites have been excavated. It's the same as the fact that not a single lion skeleton has been found in ancient Israel, yet the Bible talks of lions. Those skeletons aren't lying around like fallen apples. Think of the climate in the jungle environment. everything just about gets swallowed up and vanishes.

That's one of the questions that make one wonder about the Book of Mormon: mention of horses and even elephants.

It still amazes me that the ancient misconception about horses in bom times comes up. The discoveries have already been made but often are ignored. See this link
Book of Mormon Problems: Plants and Animals
Also the possibility of remnants of elephants surviving to Jaredite times as well.
Book of Mormon Problems: Plants and Animals

Those things simply didn't exist here at that time. Ditto olive trees.

The olive trees were only spoken of by the original colony which were familiar with olive trees in Jerusalem. They never said there were olive trees in the new world. The allegory of the olive tree was given to them by prophets before their time in Jerusalem, not the new world.

Don't you wonder why old world plants and animals were ascribed to a new world culture that didn't know them?

I contend that they did know them, and extensively.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Mormons Most Conservative Major Religious Group in U.S.

 

[froggy]

I am not a Mormon myself, but I do have an interest in their history. My dad grew up in Salt Lake City and my great grandfather was Brigham Young Junior. That makes Brigham Young my great great grandfather. Since he had 56 wives and 20,000 descendents, my ancestory is certainly not unique.

One thing that troubles me is Brigham Young's history regarding the Mountain Meadows massacre back in the 1850's. I believe about 150 unarmed settlers were massacred by Mormons. Originally the Mormons hoped to disguise themselves as Indians, but when that ruse failed they talked the settlers into disarming, then executed them. Historians do not know how complicit Brigham Young was in this matter, but most agree that at the very least he turned a blind eye to the incident.

I would hate to think that my great great grandfather was a mass murder. He does have a university named after him. What's next, the Charles Manson Institute of Technology? (I am not mocking you, just having a little fun. Although as a Christian I reject you religion, I respect that you take time to explain it on this very contentious message board). I am interested in your take on this historical incident.

I don't know how numerous my addresses on this issue have been but rest assured, you haven't read the many discourses I've given on the subject. I advise you to read from the beginning or search the thread using the tools "search this thread."

I'm tired of repeating myself sometimes but for your sake I'll sum up the more detailed explanation I've given earlier:

the historical account shows that Brigham Young had nothing to do with the sinful slaughter perpetrated by that band of members of our church. It has been proven that Brigham Young's letter reached the recipients too late telling the mormons in that area to "let them(the arkansas travelers) alone. You must not meddle with them."

Upon hearing of the atrocity it is reported he wept bitterly at the news. He condemned the unjustified cruelty of the murderers and was certainly the opposite of a mass murderer if you had read any of his teachings regarding the love of Christ and peace.

The murderers either fled, turned themselves in and all were punished according to the law and were obviously excommunicated from the church. This was NOT by order of the church and anyone who knows even a smidgeon of our doctrine must know that we teach the opposite of violence.

B.Y. sent that letter after the fact to cover himself.

 

[Avatar4321]

B.Y. sent that letter after the fact to cover himself.

Of course, because he somehow sent it before it happened because he knew he would need it to cover it up. Are you saying that he had the gift of prophecy?