The Truth about Mormons

[Tom Clancy]

In other words you have nothing except your fear and prejudices. You could just say that and be done with it. I promise no Mormon is going to find you and force you to convert. Nor will they condemn your religion.

As for Jesus Christ your ignorance is showing through once again. The name of our Church says it all. DO you even know our name?

You obviously know NOTHING of our beliefs. Live your life in fear and ignorance. Sounds like it suits you.

You sure? I've had Mormons come up to me near the mall and try and "sit down" with me and talk about the Book of Mormon.. and boy do they want you to convert..

So you don't believe Jesus Christ was the real prophet? Or is it Joseph Smith?

I know more than you think I know about your beliefs.. And truth to be told, it sometimes makes me wonder how you can believe in all those crazy acts? for EX: Baptizing the dead.

You are not a very good Christian if you believe Jesus Christ was a Prophet. That would be Islam that believes that. Christians happen to believe Jesus Christ was the Son of God.

Last I checked all one need do is tell an Elder they do not wish to talk to them and that Elder will leave him alone. More misinformation from a person that has no clue what they are talking about.

You want to be Politically correct?

In Christianity a prophet (or seer — 1 Samuel 9:9 ) is one inspired by God through the Holy Spirit to deliver a message for a specific purpose.

Jesus, Son of God, Born from the Virgin Mary.

Weird.. now your telling me a i'm ignorant when i myself was in that moment.. yeah ok.

I told them i'm not interested and still they persisted.

 

[Truthspeaker]

That's what i've heard.. also believing Adam and Eve lived in Missouri or some crapola like that..

Well there almost always is SOME truth to what you've heard generally speaking. In this case there is some truth also. But there are missing facts and contexts to be considered. Whenever you are serious about getting the real facts I can answer your questions. But it seems you are only interested in mocking our "strange" ideas.

Well yes, Baptizing the dead is just Wrong

One day you will understand the beauty and subtlety of the English language; and how just one little word can drastically change the meaning of an entire sentence. See example below:

1.
(a) Baptisms FOR the dead.
(b) Baptisms OF the dead.

Actually the subtleties can be found in the mere addition or absence of just one letter as in the above examples. Note the difference. Exhibit 1(a) is what we do. Exhibit 1(b).....I don't know who does that. Case closed.

 

[Truthspeaker]

That's definitely one of the "interesting" parts of Mormonism. The whole baptizing someone if they're dead and haven't given you their consent.

And by "interesting" I mean really damn weird.

Says the man with a Lecter Avatar... BTW we don't baptize dead people with or without their consent.

Liar.

The burden of proof is on the accuser. Since you say I am a can you please show one instance of a corpse being baptized. Care to revise your statement?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Wait wait.. Mormons baptize their dead?

No. They Baptise FOR EVERYONE's dead. Jews. Catholics. Baptists. Methodists. Muslims. Jehovah's Witness. Lutherans. Presbyterians. Unitarians.

They Baptise FOR EVERYONE's dead. Not just Mormons.

Correction added in Red above.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Wait wait.. Mormons baptize their dead?

Negative.

We perform proxy baptisms for the names of people who have died without baptism. Only live people are involved.

Bullshit.

You "perform proxy baptisms for the names of people who have DIED".

DEAD PEOPLE ARE NOT LIVE, hence "only live people are involved" is bullshit and a outright, boldfaced LIE.

Quit twisting in the wind and avoiding the TRUTH.

You twisted weirdos BAPTISE THE DEAD--without their consent or the consent of their families. No other way around it, you farking LIAR.

You're getting pretty desperate aren't you?

I refer to my previous rebuttal of your lame emotings.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Why the hell should us Catholics baptize our dead...?

I don't think any one should baptize their dead.

Perhaps Mormonism is just outright weird.. (no offense)

Of course none taken. Weirdness doesn't mean wrong.

I mean i hear all types of stuff about Mormonism, makes me go how can you believe this stuff from a man named Joseph Smith?

Shouldn't your first reaction be more like, "Makes me wonder how much all that crap they say about the Mormons and Joe Smith is really true."

Mormonism must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a Prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground. If Joseph was a deceiver, who willfully attempted to mislead people, then he should be exposed, his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false...

Bingo.

 

[Liability]

Sometimes, after a couple of drinks, the thread title of this thread looks a bit like "The Truth about Hormones."

That reminds me of a story ....

 

[Truthspeaker]

Just the same reason i speak out against Islam..

Do you believe in the freedom of religion?

Why the hell wouldn't I speak out against Baptizing the dead? how is that even considered normal? or holy?

We don't baptize dead...Again.

It's a False Religion, by a False Profit.

So you say. That's fine if you think so. But you aren't going to get anywhere with us by just coming in here to attack us. What's your angle? Are you curious or just trying to "expose" us?

As for a false profit, that sounds more like what's been going on the last few years on Wall Street.

Ever heard of a man named Jesus Christ?

Yeah, totally! Great guy. I pattern my life after Him! He's like... My Hero. We go WAY back. Where do you know Him from?!

 

[Truthspeaker]

You sure? I've had Mormons come up to me near the mall and try and "sit down" with me and talk about the Book of Mormon.. and boy do they want you to convert..

It's no big secret that we WANT you to convert. That's why we send out 40,000 missionaries around the world. That was never a secret. The information that has somehow been kept a secret from you is that we already KNOW that we CAN'T convert you. People have to do it on their own. All we do is spread the word. Let the chips fall where they may.

So you don't believe Jesus Christ was the real prophet? Or is it Joseph Smith?

You're kidding. Jesus is everything. It all starts with Him. He was the Savior of the world along with the greatest Prophet of all time. But he certainly wasn't the only prophet. That's why the Bible is full of writings of prophets and apostles. Joseph Smith was just another in the selection process of God.

I know more than you think I know about your beliefs.. And truth to be told, it sometimes makes me wonder how you can believe in all those crazy acts? for EX: Baptizing the dead.

Actually the more I read from you the more I realize that you know less and less about our religion than I had previously thought. I'm starting to doubt your reading comprehension skills as well. This because I have clearly explained the difference between baptizing the dead and baptizing for the dead.

What other crazy acts do you think or have you heard we believe in? It's time to set your record straight. Since you refuse to read the whole article and learn for yourself what our core beliefs are.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I told them i'm not interested and still they persisted.

Hey nobody's perfect. You must have bumped into the one pair of twenty year olds that I've ever heard of that didn't leave someone alone when told to skeedaddle. Congratulations. You have found some imperfect "Mormons".

 

[Truthspeaker]

Sometimes, after a couple of drinks, the thread title of this thread looks a bit like "The Truth about Hormones."

That reminds me of a story ....

How quaint.

 

[Eightball]

You're kidding. Jesus is everything. It all starts with Him. He was the Savior of the world along with the greatest Prophet of all time. But he certainly wasn't the only prophet. That's why the Bible is full of writings of prophets and apostles. Joseph Smith was just another in the selection process of God.

You know full well that your Mormon doctrine does not venerate Jesus as "everything" as He is just a progression of an infinite number of gods, and saviors for an infinite prosession of planets......earth being just one of those infinite myriad of planets that are settled with new Adam and Eves who were good Mormons.

Also, we have all these little babies up there somewhere waiting for a Mommy and Daddy to procreate under the bed sheets and have one come down learn to be a good Mormon..........Right?

When you include Joseph Smith Jr. in the same league or sentence with Jesus Christ.............your are making a con-man and sinner equal to the Son of God.......who is unique, and the only Son of God.... J.S. Jr. was a son too, but the son of a earthly sinner Dad who was a con artist who taught his sone J.S. jr. to be one also.

The con game didn't end with New York treasure hunting, but progressed to a "religious con game" not unlike "Benny Hinn", "Bob Tilton", "Kenneth Copeland", and even the esteemed "Reverend Wright".

Mormonism is on the apex of the con game made religious scale; second to none. It's other "apex" feeders, would be Scientology, Watchtower/Jehovah's Witnesses, Bahai, Moonies, Unitarianism, apostles of Christ church, ...........the names of religions that have butchered the contextural integrity of the bible goes on and on.

In an attempt to change the "gospel" message to a humanistically made "gospel" the LDS/Mormon church has exceeded incredibly. It hides behind the innocent demeaner of Mom, Apple Pie, Conservatism, American flag, veneer.

The responses to the above statement is that "eightball" is a "hater" of Mormons. Far from it. On my father's side of the family are Mormons who help build the S.L.C. temple, and had heavy involvement in the early LDS movement. Though my father was not Mormon, his Mormon mother's religion impacted him in a way that "naturally" lead him to Freemasonry, where he worked his way through all the Lodge chairs and became a Worshipful Master. The finger prints of Masonry rituals are found all about secretive LDS temple rituals, as J.S. Jr. was a Freemason himself.

If Mormonism is of God, why does it reek of humanistic and occult Freemasonry? Why do the LDS undergarments reek of occult symbolism?

Read any part of the bible, and witchcraft/occult is forbidden to the nth degree and will be met with God's furious judgement if "said" participants don't walk away from it.

I feel so sorry for those neat clean-cut men and women that come to my door trying to proselytize me from my biblical, Christian faith. They usually are with an elder or will have an elder come to you when you differ with their LDS statements and biblical interpretations that absolutely maim and slaughter the context of the bible to slant it towards the apostasy of Mormon doctrine.

They want me to pray and ask God if Mormonism is the "truth". The bible tells me that "exactly" who God is..............He was revealed in Jesus Christ Himself, but that isn't good enough, because this does not lead me to embrace Mormonism. I must make sure I'm right by asking God to confirm or deny the validity of Mormonism as the "real" truth, that has "trumped" the "old, corrupted" truth contained in the bible. I.E. the Book of Mormon was needed to make things straight as well as the Mormon books, "Pearl of Great Price", and the "Journal of Discourses" too.

What was once just good old time religion with the Good Old book the bible has been redefined by the LDS church as a myriad of teachings, convoluted rewriting of North American history in relationship to human habitation.........mis-interpretations of the sacred Christian rite of baptism to include dead people who may or may not have been Christians at death.

Anyone remember Jesus' parable about the poor man and rich man Lazarus? Jesus made it very clear in the parable that every human being had a time to believe on Him as their Savior from their sinful life, and it was not after one's physical/earthly death. Yet Mormons go on and on baptising the dead.

There's a good chance that you a Catholic, Protestant, or non-denominational bible Christian have been baptized by the LDS church? Yes! They are saving your soul from your foul, unGodly, belief system that doesn't coincide with their Founder J.S. Jr. and their later church prophets.
******
The bible clearly shows that the time of prophets ended with John the Baptist...........as Jesus came and fullfilled the Law as the sinless human, yet God in the flesh........the very nature and likeness of God, yet visual, touchable.

Jesus did not have siblings in the heavenly realm before His incarnation. You will never find that in the bible, but you will find it in LDS teaching. Can you imagine folks: LDS teaching actually places Jesus with a sibling named Lucifer. Lucifer might have been our Saviour on earth, but Jesus' and Lucifers' Dad chose Jesus to come down instead of Lucifer............................So Lucifer, Satan, the Devil...........really is such a bad dude afterall. He's Jesus' blood brother.........from the same lineage.

Do you realize the impact of this? Jesus in the bible says that He has pre-existed before time. He said He is the Alpha and the Omega.........That is God my friends! The beginning and the end! Lucifer as clearly explained in the bible is a "created being".............an angel............a most formidable and powerful angel.

Jesus even proclaimed with joy that He saw Lucifer being cast from heaven to roam about the earth. Lucifer is called the "Prince of this world" by Jesus right in John Chapter 14. Notice he's called a "prince", not a king. Yes there is a king, and in that chapter 14 and subsequent chapters you it is clearly revealed that Jesus is the one who has a one on one relationship with God the Father, as the Son of God......Emmanuel, Jehovah.......the "I AM". k

Lucifer is but a created being that has dwelt in the heavenly realm and was intended to be one of God's many angels who would serve Him, and do service to mankind according to God's will. Lucifer was created with free-will and "chose" to raise himself above his Creator. Seems ridiculous doesn't it, but when we choose to go are own way, and place God in a second class position or just plain, change God's truth and nature as He intended man to know Him, we walk on a very thin and tenuous rope.
******
The answer is not a pile of conflicting books of discourses, and alleged inspired books by 19th and 20 century false prophets, but is contained in a very simple book called the Holy bible. It contains 66 God inspired books written by many God inspired men over a period of several thousand years.

It has spawned some of the greatest men and women over the century..........Martin Luther, John Wesley, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Finney, Michael Faraday(Father of the electric motor/generator), Washington Carver, many of our country's founders, Billy Sunday, Billy Graham.................and the names of those that gave their lives to bring others blessing through medicine, science and inventions, pastoring and leading people to God's peace that passeth all understanding goes on and on and on.. They all just had the bible.................That's all.

Folks, don't hate Mormons! They are human beings made in God's image............just as Muslims, Hindu's, biblle believing Christians, agnostics, atheists,,,,,,,,etc.... We are but mere flesh and bone..................Jesus took on that state of physical being as a willfull desire and obedience of God the Father. Why would Jesus leave His heavenly realm and throne at the right side of God the Father to do this? WE SINFUL HUMANS NEEDED A PERFECT REPLACEMENT IN OUR PLACE TO RECEIVE THE RIGHTFUL, JUDICIOUS PUNISHMENT OF A FALLEN SINFUL RACE. Jesus was sinless because He was born from a sinful human's womb, but He/Jesus was from God, and was God(mysterious huh, and beyond our finite human minds to comprehend?). Mary was chosen as she was a very obedient and God loving woman..............God doesn't make mistakes...........She/Mary made herself a humble servant to God, and will be remembered as many of God's chosen will be. Jesus in 33 years returned to take up His seat at His Father's right hand after fullfilling the judicious act required by God the Father that would offer complete atonement for mankinds sins......................But.........the corker..........one must appropriate or "own" this work of Christ on the cross for their sins, but "believing/accepting" His sacrificial act personally for themselves..............Even that one thief on a cross of crucifixion alongside Jesus, repented, and asked Jesus to remember him. Jesus said that before this day was done that he/the thief would be with Jesus in "paradise".

So you see, the bible has revealed God's nature..................very succinctly, very clearly..............We don't need a new gospel(good news).........we got it 2,000 years ago, and it still applies very cleary to 21st century mankind. We don't need a religion that shrouds itself in good deeds, patriotism, and works that are motivated by trying to please a god that is just one of an infinite number of gods that are in turn just mere fleshly, sinful humans that got cleared for godhood by another god...........on and on and on.

Folks, when you scratch the veneer of Mormonis, it is not pretty. You will find with simple research a past and present that is filled with doctrines that go cross-hairs to the Holy bible, and the very teachings of God. It is a human-designed counterfeit of the true gospel, designed on the outside to project a syrupy sweet display to entice those looking for some meaning to life.............and often a belong-ness that the Mormons will certainly supply.

Once in the LDS church they are gradually massaged along with introductions to the deeper teachings that reveal the true core of Mormonism. This has to be done in order to not scare off new converts.

Not so with biblical Christianity. It's all right out their in the open when you go to a true bible teaching church. You see what the gospel entails and you are given a choice.............Committment to God/Christ is not white washed with working your way up the scale of "acceptance" and inevitably to blasphemous godhood.

What makes God, God? He's not created.............He's pre-existed infinitely both in the past, present and future, not bound by time, yet for 33 human years He indeed constricted Himself in the incarnation of Christ to bring His human creation back into a wonderous, eternal relationship once again.

The "red flags" of Mormon doctrine are everywhere. Once a novice Mormon starts to receive the deeper teachings that would scare off one being initially proselytized, they are so immersed in the familial type bonding that often typifies cult practices, that questioning doctrine and using outside sources other than Mormon are considered wrong, and hurtful to the church.
******
I know that Truthspeaker........(Lord how I can't understand how a person calling themselves a Christian would use that moniker except God Himself, as it reeks of pride and arrogance.)........will go into his bunker mode and "I've answered all that in past posts, Eightball" mantra.............but the problem is.........He hasn't, because he retreats to Mormon doctrine to refute biblical doctrine.

Now either God did a good job of protecting His Word to mankind via the Moses, Abraham, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Amos, Malachi, Solomon, David, Matthew, Mark, John, Luke, Paul, Peter, James.................etc.... because one of God's attributes is that He is OMNIPOTENT which seems conveniently brushed aside by Truth and his little family of Mormon apologists on this thread, or He, God, is WEAK, ANEMIC, UNWATCHFUL, DISTRACTED, UNCARING...........Thus we need this New, Improved, economy sized, gospel spawned from the over active imagination of one Joseph Smither Jr.. .

 

[Eightball]

Double post

 

[Truthspeaker]

Oh you again? You just couldn't stay away could you? Miss me too much?

Welcome back. You are in rare but expectable form. Another in the many long publications of the infamous 8-ball. Why can't you just post in paragraphs that people will actually read like a normal human being?

I only read them because I have to, but trust me no one else cares enough to read such lengthy posts. I've got to dedicate a full hour to read and respond to your novels so I'll hit you back later tomorrow. Good night all.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I came across something in a comparative study on which I am working that reminded me that you and someone else in the LDS church here on the forum was still nattering on about the discarded folklore of blacks not being valiant or fence sitters in the war in heaven before the earth was created. I asked for evidence for your outdated opinions. You both shrugged it off, so . . . read and enjoy.

Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1:65-66 - "No Neutrals In Heaven. There were no neutrals in the war in heaven. ALL TOOK SIDES EITHER WITH CHRIST OR WITH SATAN. (Matt. 12:30; Mark 9:40; Luke 9:50; 11:23). Every man had his agency there, and men receive rewards here based upon their actions there, just as they will receive rewards hereafter for deeds done in the body. The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits." [emphasis in original] [my comment: JFS, grandson of Hyrum Smith, son of Joseph F. Smith, and apostle and president of the LDS church over a plus-sixty year span).

Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1st ed - "There were, of course, no neutral spirits in the war in heaven, any more than there are or can be neutrals in this life where choices between righteousness and unrighteousness are involved. 'He that is not with me is against me,' saith the Lord, 'and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.' (Matt. 12:30; 1 Ne. 14:10; Alma 5:38-40)". (my comment: BRM, son-in-law of JFS, long time general authority of the LDS church, dying as a member of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles.)

 

[JakeStarkey]

Also to add to the above, the following website is pro-LDS. It carries a talk that goes into great detail about "Blacks and the Priesthood." You can read it at: http://www.fairlds. org/Misc/ Blacks_and_ the_Priesthood. html. Marvin Perkins is among the African-Americans featured in CNN's Black in America. In this two-minute video, he explains why The Church of Jesus Christ . . . CNN features black Mormon Marvin Perkins | Blacklds.org ·

 

[TheSuaveOne]

Every year we were given directories of the chuch leadership, it always made me shake my head with how many white males ran the the LDS church. Since the quorum of the 70 was reinstated in 1976, there have been 201 men called to the 1st or 2nd quorum, of those numbers there have been...

1 Native American
2 Africans
8 Asians
33 Hispanics

Pretty sad imo.

-TSO

 

[emilynghiem]

Why the hell should us Catholics baptize our dead...?

I don't think any one should baptize their dead.

I don't see anything wrong with "praying to bless" souls, either before during or after life.
Since all spirit is connected, then sending good thoughts and prayers for healing and especially support for forgiveness, correction of past wrongs conflicts or divisions, and uplifting all souls is a positive force.

For Buddhists, the prayers on the anniversary of one's death are revered more than celebrating one's birthday, because it represents the soul's passing to higher spiritual realms, and the connection with future generations as well. So it provides strength for the entire family and heritage.

For Christians, if you believe Jesus descended into hell to reach all those souls across time and space who may not have had connection in Christian prayer, then the prayers for healing and salvation can still connect souls in the past and the future, through Christ, and include them in salvation also. Even if the sins that were not forgiven and resolved are carried by the future generations, the positive prayers help to heal those instead of repeating the same vicious cycle. So the souls can be saved even if the sins or karma is revisited on future generations until the cycle is broken through divine forgiveness and redemption in Christ.

So there are different cultural expressions of this same concept to pray for the souls of the dead in order to bring spiritual peace to all people, all generations, all humanity, joined by conscience or in Christ in loving harmony.

 

[Bearman]

Excuse me Mr SuaveOne Sir,
Just a quick response to your last post. Theres just one problem with that, God calls whom he calls, he doesnt have an Affirmative Action quota. Besides, its far more inclusive than the way it use to be anyway. It used to be that only the Israelites possessed authority for leadership, now its available to any and all. If you want to point the finger for exclusivity, you're wasting your time, but if you do point, you cant logically point at the Mormon Church, the first church in American history to have Black leaders in front of White congregations.

 

[Avatar4321]

Look, if Jews and Catholics are united on this issue of Mormon's posthumous Baptism of our dead, then there MUST be something to it.

Jews and Catholics haven't exactly gotten along too well since....well....Christ's Crucifixion.

I can't see why you would have a problem with it, unless you acknowledge that what we do actually effects what happens in the afterlife. If it doesn't, then there is no point being upset because we are wasting our time and resources.

You do understand that by being upset you are acknowledging we have the authority to change the course of someone's Eternal destiny by doing so. So the real question to ask is this: If we have the authority, where does it put you?