The Truth about Mormons

[Oscar Wao]

Mormonism, how 'bout, NOT Christian.

 

[Avatar4321]

You know full well that your Mormon doctrine does not venerate Jesus as "everything" as He is just a progression of an infinite number of gods, and saviors for an infinite prosession of planets......earth being just one of those infinite myriad of planets that are settled with new Adam and Eves who were good Mormons.

You do realize that just a reading of the Book of Mormon would demonstrate you are completely lying don't you? I mean you might be able to decieve someone who is completely ignorant. But anyone with even a small knowledge of the subject knows your lying through your teeth.

Also, we have all these little babies up there somewhere waiting for a Mommy and Daddy to procreate under the bed sheets and have one come down learn to be a good Mormon..........Right?

Actually, im sure the Spirits waiting for bodies are much more developed than children. In fact, I'm confident that in alot of subjects, they know much more than we do.

When you include Joseph Smith Jr. in the same league or sentence with Jesus Christ.............your are making a con-man and sinner equal to the Son of God.......who is unique, and the only Son of God.... J.S. Jr. was a son too, but the son of a earthly sinner Dad who was a con artist who taught his sone J.S. jr. to be one also.

How on earth is stating the fact that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of Jesus Christ put him in the same league as the Savior of the World?

Con artists usually make money. Or atleast try to. They dont give away everything they have to complete strangers.

The con game didn't end with New York treasure hunting, but progressed to a "religious con game" not unlike "Benny Hinn", "Bob Tilton", "Kenneth Copeland", and even the esteemed "Reverend Wright".

And how many of them would sacrifice their life for their faith?

Mormonism is on the apex of the con game made religious scale; second to none. It's other "apex" feeders, would be Scientology, Watchtower/Jehovah's Witnesses, Bahai, Moonies, Unitarianism, apostles of Christ church, ...........the names of religions that have butchered the contextural integrity of the bible goes on and on.

I've demonstrated multiple times in this thread that you havent a clue what the Bible actually says. You tune out anything that doesnt fit your preconcieved notions. So who cares what you think on the subject?

In an attempt to change the "gospel" message to a humanistically made "gospel" the LDS/Mormon church has exceeded incredibly. It hides behind the innocent demeaner of Mom, Apple Pie, Conservatism, American flag, veneer.

What the heck is a "humanistically made gospel'? The message of Mormonism has always been that the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets is true. That Jesus Christ the Son of God atoned and died for the sins of the world, and then rose on the third day ascending to Heaven. Everything else is an appendage to this one great truth. That is the Gospel. If that is a humanistically made gospel, then what the heck gospel do you believe in?

Also, i really dont the people in South America, Africa, Asia, Austrailia, Europe, Mexico, and Canada, or any other nation really care about conservatism and the American flagg. And we serve Jello, not apple pie. Apple pie would be an improvement.

The responses to the above statement is that "eightball" is a "hater" of Mormons. Far from it. On my father's side of the family are Mormons who help build the S.L.C. temple, and had heavy involvement in the early LDS movement. Though my father was not Mormon, his Mormon mother's religion impacted him in a way that "naturally" lead him to Freemasonry, where he worked his way through all the Lodge chairs and became a Worshipful Master. The finger prints of Masonry rituals are found all about secretive LDS temple rituals, as J.S. Jr. was a Freemason himself.

And lo and behold, you know nothing of your heritage. Score one for the liberal educational system

If Mormonism is of God, why does it reek of humanistic and occult Freemasonry? Why do the LDS undergarments reek of occult symbolism?

Because Satan has always tried to copy/imitate the Order of Heaven. He always sets up his forms to copy God, because He wants to be God. He just cant.

The real question you should ask is why do the mysteries exist is countless historical and cultural accounts throughout the ancient world? Why do they show up in early Christianity?

More to the point, you should question what exact was Christ teaching the Apostles after He rose from the dead and spent 40 days teaching the Apostles? Of course, you wouldnt believe it if God Himself told you because those teachings aren't found in the Bible. And you cant believe anything unless its in the Bible despite God not saying anything to that effect. You limit yourself to what your mind can understand instead of opening yourself to what the Spirit can and will teach you and you wonder this is so foreign to you.

Read any part of the bible, and witchcraft/occult is forbidden to the nth degree and will be met with God's furious judgement if "said" participants don't walk away from it.

Alright, Where does it say that in John 3:16? You did say any part of the Bible.

I feel so sorry for those neat clean-cut men and women that come to my door trying to proselytize me from my biblical, Christian faith. They usually are with an elder or will have an elder come to you when you differ with their LDS statements and biblical interpretations that absolutely maim and slaughter the context of the bible to slant it towards the apostasy of Mormon doctrine.

Your faith is about as Biblical as Islam. What your so upset about is that someone actually reads and understand the Bible differently then you do. Someone actually doesnt ignore inconvenient verses. Someone doesnt worship the Bible like you do while ignoring it when it's convenient.

Well so be it. Guilty as charged. I worship God the Father. He revealed the truths found in the Bible. The Bible doesnt reveal Him. It's a tool to teach us out to approach Him ourselves and learn from Him directly.

People are always trying to put things between themselves and God. The Israelites tried to put Moses and the Prophets between them and God. The Pharisees put the scriptures between them and God. Sadly much of Modern Christianity is the same.

But the Goal of the Prophets and Apostles was never to be an intermediary between them and God. Their goal was to get the people to seek to know God on their own and prepare them to enter into His presence. Not in the future. But in this life. They were attempting to bring the people to repentence so that they could build the Kingdom of God on earth.

Sadly. most even today reject the call.

They want me to pray and ask God if Mormonism is the "truth". The bible tells me that "exactly" who God is..............He was revealed in Jesus Christ Himself, but that isn't good enough, because this does not lead me to embrace Mormonism. I must make sure I'm right by asking God to confirm or deny the validity of Mormonism as the "real" truth, that has "trumped" the "old, corrupted" truth contained in the bible. I.E. the Book of Mormon was needed to make things straight as well as the Mormon books, "Pearl of Great Price", and the "Journal of Discourses" too.

Wow. We ask you to actually talk to God and find out from Him what the Truth is. We ask you to actually get to know God. How horrible! I suppose it's easier to just turn pages in a book then it is to repent and converse with the Lord. But then, reading a book isnt good enough. It never has been and it never will be.

What was once just good old time religion with the Good Old book the bible has been redefined by the LDS church as a myriad of teachings, convoluted rewriting of North American history in relationship to human habitation.........mis-interpretations of the sacred Christian rite of baptism to include dead people who may or may not have been Christians at death.

We teach by revelation. We learn through revelation. We have actual experiences with God which we base our faith on. We dont rely on our own understanding. We rely on the Spirit.

Christ is the Savior of all the world. He is the Savior of the ancient civilizations and our modern civilizations. He is the Savior of man in Europe, Asia, Africa, Austrailia, North and South America. He is the Savior of the Isles of the Sea. It's absurd to conclude that of all the people the only ones God spoke to are the ones in the Middle East when He loves all man kind. It's absurd to conclude that God hasnt provided a way for men who die without hearing the Word of God to recieve it.

Anyone remember Jesus' parable about the poor man and rich man Lazarus? Jesus made it very clear in the parable that every human being had a time to believe on Him as their Savior from their sinful life, and it was not after one's physical/earthly death. Yet Mormons go on and on baptising the dead.

Why am I not surprised that you dont understand the parable? You do realize that Christ descended into hell to declare freedom to the prisoners? You do realize that the Gospel was preached to the dead don't you? Or do you conveniently ignore those verses as well? Baptism on behalf of the dead is a pretty lame argument for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ if it's not a legitimate ordinance. So I suppose Paul was an idiot for making such an absurd argument.

There's a good chance that you a Catholic, Protestant, or non-denominational bible Christian have been baptized by the LDS church? Yes! They are saving your soul from your foul, unGodly, belief system that doesn't coincide with their Founder J.S. Jr. and their later church prophets.

If they have been baptized, it would be by their own choice and they would be LDS now. You do realize that we dont baptize people against there will don't you? Have you somehow been baptized without your knowledge? The argument is completely absurd.

The bible clearly shows that the time of prophets ended with John the Baptist...........as Jesus came and fullfilled the Law as the sinless human, yet God in the flesh........the very nature and likeness of God, yet visual, touchable.

Which, of course, is why there were prophets in Acts and mentioned throughout the Epistles. That is, of course, why Paul stated that the Lord has given us Apostles and Prophets until we are all unified in faith so that we wont be lead astray.

But hey, ignore the Bible when it's convenient.

Jesus did not have siblings in the heavenly realm before His incarnation. You will never find that in the bible, but you will find it in LDS teaching. Can you imagine folks: LDS teaching actually places Jesus with a sibling named Lucifer. Lucifer might have been our Saviour on earth, but Jesus' and Lucifers' Dad chose Jesus to come down instead of Lucifer............................So Lucifer, Satan, the Devil...........really is such a bad dude afterall. He's Jesus' blood brother.........from the same lineage.

Really, How is Christ the Firstborn of the Father if there was no one born after Him?

Why does Job state that satan was among the sons of God in the Heavenly Council?

But hey, ignore the Bible. You wouldnt want to be accused of being unbiblical.

Do you realize the impact of this? Jesus in the bible says that He has pre-existed before time. He said He is the Alpha and the Omega.........That is God my friends! The beginning and the end! Lucifer as clearly explained in the bible is a "created being".............an angel............a most formidable and powerful angel.

The Bible is pretty clear that we existed before the Creation of the world as well.

Jesus even proclaimed with joy that He saw Lucifer being cast from heaven to roam about the earth. Lucifer is called the "Prince of this world" by Jesus right in John Chapter 14. Notice he's called a "prince", not a king. Yes there is a king, and in that chapter 14 and subsequent chapters you it is clearly revealed that Jesus is the one who has a one on one relationship with God the Father, as the Son of God......Emmanuel, Jehovah.......the "I AM". k

No one is disputing that Christ is the King of Kings. This rant is rather pointless.

However, it makes an interesting point. In order to be Prince, you have to have royal blood, so to speak.

Lucifer is but a created being that has dwelt in the heavenly realm and was intended to be one of God's many angels who would serve Him, and do service to mankind according to God's will. Lucifer was created with free-will and "chose" to raise himself above his Creator. Seems ridiculous doesn't it, but when we choose to go are own way, and place God in a second class position or just plain, change God's truth and nature as He intended man to know Him, we walk on a very thin and tenuous rope.

Be nice if you knew what created means.

The answer is not a pile of conflicting books of discourses, and alleged inspired books by 19th and 20 century false prophets, but is contained in a very simple book called the Holy bible. It contains 66 God inspired books written by many God inspired men over a period of several thousand years.

The answer is going straight to God and finding out from Him directly.

However, your premise is false to begin with because the Book of Mormon, Bible, Docrtine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price don't conflict.

It has spawned some of the greatest men and women over the century..........Martin Luther, John Wesley, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Finney, Michael Faraday(Father of the electric motor/generator), Washington Carver, many of our country's founders, Billy Sunday, Billy Graham.................and the names of those that gave their lives to bring others blessing through medicine, science and inventions, pastoring and leading people to God's peace that passeth all understanding goes on and on and on.. They all just had the bible.................That's all.

Do you think their ideas came from the Bible itself, or from the Spirit who used the Bible to help them?

Folks, don't hate Mormons! They are human beings made in God's image............just as Muslims, Hindu's, biblle believing Christians, agnostics, atheists,,,,,,,,etc.... We are but mere flesh and bone..................Jesus took on that state of physical being as a willfull desire and obedience of God the Father. Why would Jesus leave His heavenly realm and throne at the right side of God the Father to do this? WE SINFUL HUMANS NEEDED A PERFECT REPLACEMENT IN OUR PLACE TO RECEIVE THE RIGHTFUL, JUDICIOUS PUNISHMENT OF A FALLEN SINFUL RACE. Jesus was sinless because He was born from a sinful human's womb, but He/Jesus was from God, and was God(mysterious huh, and beyond our finite human minds to comprehend?). Mary was chosen as she was a very obedient and God loving woman..............God doesn't make mistakes...........She/Mary made herself a humble servant to God, and will be remembered as many of God's chosen will be. Jesus in 33 years returned to take up His seat at His Father's right hand after fullfilling the judicious act required by God the Father that would offer complete atonement for mankinds sins......................But.........the corker..........one must appropriate or "own" this work of Christ on the cross for their sins, but "believing/accepting" His sacrificial act personally for themselves..............Even that one thief on a cross of crucifixion alongside Jesus, repented, and asked Jesus to remember him. Jesus said that before this day was done that he/the thief would be with Jesus in "paradise".

So we should ignore everything you just previously said? Alright, i will.

So you see, the bible has revealed God's nature..................very succinctly, very clearly..............We don't need a new gospel(good news).........we got it 2,000 years ago, and it still applies very cleary to 21st century mankind. We don't need a religion that shrouds itself in good deeds, patriotism, and works that are motivated by trying to please a god that is just one of an infinite number of gods that are in turn just mere fleshly, sinful humans that got cleared for godhood by another god...........on and on and on.

If the Bible revealed God's nature very succinctly there wouldnt be thousands of denominations disagreeing on doctrine. There would be no need for post Biblical creeds.

You're claim therefore must be false. There is no support for it.

The Bible can show people how to reach God if they study it and actually seek God. But without revelation No one understands God's nature. It's impossible to know Him without direct communication.

Quite frankly, I dont want a silent God. I want a God who actually loves me and will provide me with the answers to my prayers as much as He provided my ancestors an answer to theirs. I want to actually know God. Not just read what He did for other people.

Folks, when you scratch the veneer of Mormonis, it is not pretty. You will find with simple research a past and present that is filled with doctrines that go cross-hairs to the Holy bible, and the very teachings of God. It is a human-designed counterfeit of the true gospel, designed on the outside to project a syrupy sweet display to entice those looking for some meaning to life.............and often a belong-ness that the Mormons will certainly supply.

It's not pretty for you, you mean. It destroys your doctrine. Thus you must malign it.

Once in the LDS church they are gradually massaged along with introductions to the deeper teachings that reveal the true core of Mormonism. This has to be done in order to not scare off new converts.

Im sure you would propose we start teaching children calculus before you they can count. But in the real world, you'd be looked as insane for doing so.

The true core of Mormonism is that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who suffered for the Sins of the world and rose on the third day. That is the core. Your denial will not change that.

Not so with biblical Christianity. It's all right out their in the open when you go to a true bible teaching church. You see what the gospel entails and you are given a choice.............Committment to God/Christ is not white washed with working your way up the scale of "acceptance" and inevitably to blasphemous godhood.

So what your saying is that you dont bother actually teaching them what the Bible you exalt says. How do you claim to teach the same Doctrine as Paul when Paul clearly taught that he was teaching the Milk and not the Meat of the Gospel because people werent ready for it?

What makes God, God? He's not created.............He's pre-existed infinitely both in the past, present and future, not bound by time, yet for 33 human years He indeed constricted Himself in the incarnation of Christ to bring His human creation back into a wonderous, eternal relationship once again.

How can you pre exist in the future?

The "red flags" of Mormon doctrine are everywhere. Once a novice Mormon starts to receive the deeper teachings that would scare off one being initially proselytized, they are so immersed in the familial type bonding that often typifies cult practices, that questioning doctrine and using outside sources other than Mormon are considered wrong, and hurtful to the church.

And what type of deeper teachings do you think are so scary? This ought to be entertaining.

I know that Truthspeaker........(Lord how I can't understand how a person calling themselves a Christian would use that moniker except God Himself, as it reeks of pride and arrogance.)........will go into his bunker mode and "I've answered all that in past posts, Eightball" mantra.............but the problem is.........He hasn't, because he retreats to Mormon doctrine to refute biblical doctrine.

He has addressed everything youve said before. So have I. But honestly, I dont mind doing it more. Maybe it's insanity to keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. But maybe, just maybe, God will help somehow and make the result different.

Now either God did a good job of protecting His Word to mankind via the Moses, Abraham, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Amos, Malachi, Solomon, David, Matthew, Mark, John, Luke, Paul, Peter, James.................etc.... because one of God's attributes is that He is OMNIPOTENT which seems conveniently brushed aside by Truth and his little family of Mormon apologists on this thread, or He, God, is WEAK, ANEMIC, UNWATCHFUL, DISTRACTED, UNCARING...........Thus we need this New, Improved, economy sized, gospel spawned from the over active imagination of one Joseph Smither Jr.. .

But according to you God was unable to protect His word to anyone else. Somehow God spoke to men in the past but its pure blasphemy to conclude that God is the same today as He was then. He had the power to speak to man then, but cant now. Right..

Keep dreaming.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Look, if Jews and Catholics are united on this issue of Mormon's posthumous Baptism of our dead, then there MUST be something to it.

Jews and Catholics haven't exactly gotten along too well since....well....Christ's Crucifixion.

I can't see why you would have a problem with it, unless you acknowledge that what we do actually effects what happens in the afterlife. If it doesn't, then there is no point being upset because we are wasting our time and resources.

You do understand that by being upset you are acknowledging we have the authority to change the course of someone's Eternal destiny by doing so. So the real question to ask is this: If we have the authority, where does it put you?

Sheesh, your logic is stupidly illogical. "You do understand that being upset by [Aryan racial superiority doctrines] we have the authority to change the course of [assert whatever].

The issue is you have no authority while at the same time you arrogantly abrogate others' family responsibilities. Shame on you.

 

[Christopher]

Mormonism, how 'bout, NOT Christian.

Care to explain why you believe that?

 

[Christopher]

Look, if Jews and Catholics are united on this issue of Mormon's posthumous Baptism of our dead, then there MUST be something to it.

Jews and Catholics haven't exactly gotten along too well since....well....Christ's Crucifixion.

I can't see why you would have a problem with it, unless you acknowledge that what we do actually effects what happens in the afterlife. If it doesn't, then there is no point being upset because we are wasting our time and resources.

You do understand that by being upset you are acknowledging we have the authority to change the course of someone's Eternal destiny by doing so. So the real question to ask is this: If we have the authority, where does it put you?

Sheesh, your logic is stupidly illogical. "You do understand that being upset by [Aryan racial superiority doctrines] we have the authority to change the course of [assert whatever].

The issue is you have no authority while at the same time you arrogantly abrogate others' family responsibilities. Shame on you.

We believe Jesus and Heavenly Father will judge each person. The only thing we believe that baptisms for the dead affects after this life is whether the person baptized and Jesus accept it or not.

How is it we abrogate others' responsibilities exactly? Were people who had no chance at a knowledge of Christ in this life responsible to somehow know to be baptized?

 

[Liability]

Can't remember if I used this one yet:

Just call me Angel of the Mormon, baby!

Did I?

Things always look a little different in the Mormon.

 

[Ava]

I have started this post because it still seems there are a lot of people out there that don't understand our religion. One thing I know I can do is clarify a lot misconceptions that people have.
I served a two year mission in South Africa, and I think I have pretty much heard it all. I actually would welcome some questions that I haven't heard before.
I know some of you aren't interested in what we really believe, but are only going to be interested in trying to trap me in my words, but that's ok. I welcome those attempts as well. Let's see what this develops into.

Truthspeaker, I am an agnostic and do not sit in judgment of anybody for their religious beliefs. Some people have thought me to be a Buddhist, because I follow much of their insightful reasoning and wisdom, as I perceive that, but I am not one. I don't wish to be one, but I do try to be Buddha-like, only, and in some ways. I have been exposed for 18 years to 4 religions on a regular basis and have even sung in a church choir. I enjoyed those years and those experiences, but nothing can make me believe there is an afterlife. And I won't even discuss the subject after this post. We are all entitled to our beliefs and while some religions disagree with this, we have no right to impose our beliefs on others, in my opinion.

I do wish to say something about the Mormon religion and many of it's followers, that is very positive. I lived in Salt Lake City for two years as a young teen. Everyone I met was a Mormon or a Jack Mormon. I loved them all. I had seen many happy families before moving there but had never seen "such" cohesive happy families as the Mormon family. I loved them all and had fun playing with them. Their parents were busy with their many children and I loved their parents who treated my brother and I just as their own. That made me feel very accepted.

I am from a family of music lovers, on both sides, and music is so very important to me. My father was a classically trained opera singer ( as was my aunt ) and I grew up with that influence and with country/western music. ( South ) When we moved to Salt Lake City, where I learned to snow ski and ice skate, my Dad HAD to hear the beautiful music of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and for two years, every Sunday we went to the Mormon Tabernacle for that reason and so enjoyed the beautiful music and the famous "world's largest organ" both of which were nationally telecast. I would stand in awe of the Temple, at Temple Square, of which no one could enter but the most diligent Mormon and I respected that. We were from First Baptist/Methodist/Catholic backgrounds and experiences. I loved those too. Unless some one is abusing another, I think I love just about eveybody and Mother Nature. I respect our differences as much as I do our similarities. Humanity is one tribe.

Over a year ago, I cast my vote for Mitt Romney, for president and one of the many reasons was because of my experience with the Mormon family and their traditions.

May we all seek understanding and may we all love,

Mermaid*

 

[Bearman]

I applaud your humanity AquaAthena, and I will acquiesce to your request not to discuss the subject of an Afterlife, thus I will no expect a response. But I would graciously say with all the fervor and honesty of my heart say to you that i met thousands of Maori people on my mission, most of which were not members of my church, many of which were not even Christian, but of those people I met, above 95 % could share with me an experience with Spirits of either their family or loved ones past. I wont badger any more, but I am a logical person, and the numbers speak for themselves. THere is hope and there is proof. THere is an afterlife and I know that.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I can't see why you would have a problem with it, unless you acknowledge that what we do actually effects what happens in the afterlife. If it doesn't, then there is no point being upset because we are wasting our time and resources.

You do understand that by being upset you are acknowledging we have the authority to change the course of someone's Eternal destiny by doing so. So the real question to ask is this: If we have the authority, where does it put you?

Sheesh, your logic is stupidly illogical. "You do understand that being upset by [Aryan racial superiority doctrines] we have the authority to change the course of [assert whatever].

The issue is you have no authority while at the same time you arrogantly abrogate others' family responsibilities. Shame on you.

We believe Jesus and Heavenly Father will judge each person. The only thing we believe that baptisms for the dead affects after this life is whether the person baptized and Jesus accept it or not.

How is it we abrogate others' responsibilities exactly? Were people who had no chance at a knowledge of Christ in this life responsible to somehow know to be baptized?

Because that responsibility is not yours but that of the family of the deceased. Go ask the family, and if they tell you 'no', than you can place the responsibility on them. To do otherwise is to practice unrighteous dominion in the name of God. Have you no decency?

 

[Truthspeaker]

You know full well that your Mormon doctrine does not venerate Jesus as "everything" as He is just a progression of an infinite number of gods, and saviors for an infinite prosession of planets......earth being just one of those infinite myriad of planets that are settled with new Adam and Eves who were good Mormons.

You know full well that we do not believe that. Stop putting your rubbish ideas as our doctrines.

A

lso, we have all these little babies up there somewhere waiting for a Mommy and Daddy to procreate under the bed sheets and have one come down learn to be a good Mormon..........Right?

Wrong.

When you include Joseph Smith Jr. in the same league or sentence with Jesus Christ.............your are making a con-man and sinner equal to the Son of God.......who is unique, and the only Son of God.... J.S. Jr. was a son too, but the son of a earthly sinner Dad who was a con artist who taught his sone J.S. jr. to be one also.

Here are the scriptures in the bible which clearly show that Jesus is not the only son of God. Don't misunderstand the term "Only Begotten" and "Only" as being the same.

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Mormonism is on the apex of the con game made religious scale; second to none. It's other "apex" feeders, would be Scientology, Watchtower/Jehovah's Witnesses, Bahai, Moonies, Unitarianism, apostles of Christ church, ...........the names of religions that have butchered the contextural integrity of the bible goes on and on.

When you make accusations, it is your responsibility to show examples.

In an attempt to change the "gospel" message to a humanistically made "gospel" the LDS/Mormon church has exceeded incredibly. It hides behind the innocent demeaner of Mom, Apple Pie, Conservatism, American flag, veneer.

Major Fail.

You're so out of touch. More members of our church live outside the US and have never seen a single episode of Leave it to Beaver.

The responses to the above statement is that "eightball" is a "hater" of Mormons. Far from it.

I can really feel your love.

On my father's side of the family are Mormons who help build the S.L.C. temple, and had heavy involvement in the early LDS movement. Though my father was not Mormon, his Mormon mother's religion impacted him in a way that "naturally" lead him to Freemasonry, where he worked his way through all the Lodge chairs and became a Worshipful Master. The finger prints of Masonry rituals are found all about secretive LDS temple rituals, as J.S. Jr. was a Freemason himself.

We've been through this. The Freemason ceremony is vastly different from the temple rites.

If Mormonism is of God, why does it reek of humanistic and occult Freemasonry?

It doesn't. We've been through this oh circular one.

Why do the LDS undergarments reek of occult symbolism?

For reasons I am not at liberty to discuss. However your misunderstanding of the word occult leads you to use it in a negative sense. We have all been informed that the word cult is simply described as a system of exclusive beliefs or religious practices. So your religion is a cult too. Thank you everyone

Read any part of the bible, and witchcraft/occult is forbidden to the nth degree and will be met with God's furious judgement if "said" participants don't walk away from it.

Fail again. The Bible does forbid witchcraft, as do we! However the word cult or occult is not found in the bible and there is nothing to forbid cults who follow Jesus.

I feel so sorry for those neat clean-cut men and women that come to my door trying to proselytize me from my biblical, Christian faith. They usually are with an elder or will have an elder come to you when you differ with their LDS statements and biblical interpretations that absolutely maim and slaughter the context of the bible to slant it towards the apostasy of Mormon doctrine.

Rejoice for us. Pity us not, for we are in the arms of Jesus.

They want me to pray and ask God if Mormonism is the "truth". The bible tells me that "exactly" who God is..............He was revealed in Jesus Christ Himself, but that isn't good enough, because this does not lead me to embrace Mormonism. I must make sure I'm right by asking God to confirm or deny the validity of Mormonism as the "real" truth, that has "trumped" the "old, corrupted" truth contained in the bible. I.E. the Book of Mormon was needed to make things straight as well as the Mormon books, "Pearl of Great Price", and the "Journal of Discourses" too.

You're still worshiping a man made book that was inspired of God but not written by God. Why do you continue to worship the Bible and ignore the possibility that God can speak in other ways. Also I've already explained that Journal of Discourses is not official doctrine.

What was once just good old time religion with the Good Old book the bible has been redefined by the LDS church as a myriad of teachings, convoluted rewriting of North American history in relationship to human habitation.........mis-interpretations of the sacred Christian rite of baptism to include dead people who may or may not have been Christians at death.

Oh if only we could go back to the good ol day when there was only the Bible and along with that, persecutions, contentions, inquisitions and the like. Obviously the bible has all by itself brought peace to the whole world right? The Bible is a tool to help us gain salvation. Not gain it for us. Understand?

Anyone remember Jesus' parable about the poor man and rich man Lazarus? Jesus made it very clear in the parable that every human being had a time to believe on Him as their Savior from their sinful life, and it was not after one's physical/earthly death. Yet Mormons go on and on baptising the dead.

I repeat we don't baptize dead people. only FOR the dead. For reasons which you refuse to accept. But that's fine. You don't have to agree with us. I'm not trying to prove you wrong or me right. but don't say we baptize the dead. that is completely different.

There's a good chance that you a Catholic, Protestant, or non-denominational bible Christian have been baptized by the LDS church? Yes! They are saving your soul from your foul, unGodly, belief system that doesn't coincide with their Founder J.S. Jr. and their later church prophets.

I'll repeat. We baptize FOR the dead and on the other side the deceased can choose to accept or reject this ordinance. If we are wrong then these baptisms are meaningless. If we are right then it's a pretty good idea. We don't involve non mormons in this process.
******

The bible clearly shows that the time of prophets ended with John the Baptist...........as Jesus came and fullfilled the Law as the sinless human, yet God in the flesh........the very nature and likeness of God, yet visual, touchable.

And that makes sense how?

Jesus did not have siblings in the heavenly realm before His incarnation. You will never find that in the bible, but you will find it in LDS teaching. Can you imagine folks: LDS teaching actually places Jesus with a sibling named Lucifer. Lucifer might have been our Saviour on earth, but Jesus' and Lucifers' Dad chose Jesus to come down instead of Lucifer............................So Lucifer, Satan, the Devil...........really is such a bad dude afterall. He's Jesus' blood brother.........from the same lineage.

you got it. What's the problem? And weren't you trying to say that Lucifer ISN'T such a bad guy? I don't know because you made a typo. Anyway Lucifer is a pretty bad dude since he decided not to follow Jesus and took a 3rd of God's spirit children with him to help tempt and deceive us here in this mortal life. I'd say that makes him the worst of all. Let's make that clear.

Do you realize the impact of this? Jesus in the bible says that He has pre-existed before time. He said He is the Alpha and the Omega.........That is God my friends! The beginning and the end! Lucifer as clearly explained in the bible is a "created being".............an angel............a most formidable and powerful angel.

Neither them nor us were ever created out of nothing. We have existed as intelligences always. there has never been a time when any of us did not exist. However we have always had different stages in our development. To deep for you ?

Lucifer is but a created being that has dwelt in the heavenly realm and was intended to be one of God's many angels who would serve Him, and do service to mankind according to God's will. Lucifer was created with free-will and "chose" to raise himself above his Creator. Seems ridiculous doesn't it, but when we choose to go are own way, and place God in a second class position or just plain, change God's truth and nature as He intended man to know Him, we walk on a very thin and tenuous rope.

We've been saying that all along.

******

The answer is not a pile of conflicting books of discourses, and alleged inspired books by 19th and 20 century false prophets, but is contained in a very simple book called the Holy bible. It contains 66 God inspired books written by many God inspired men over a period of several thousand years.

That's fine if you think the Bible is the only inspired document on the planet. We disagree. We'll see in the end won't we?

It has spawned some of the greatest men and women over the century..........Martin Luther, John Wesley, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Finney, Michael Faraday(Father of the electric motor/generator), Washington Carver, many of our country's founders,

Spawned? That's sounds like something Aliens and Salmon do. Could you use a better verb?

Billy Sunday, Billy Graham.................

Yeah right! Ok whatever you say.

and the names of those that gave their lives to bring others blessing through medicine, science and inventions, pastoring and leading people to God's peace that passeth all understanding goes on and on and on.. They all just had the bible.................That's all.

Martin Luther was quoted as saying "God's true church is not on the earth at this time. I look forward to the day God brings back his authority."

We don't need a religion that shrouds itself in good deeds, patriotism, and works

AMEN! We certainly don't need any more of that!

that are motivated by trying to please a god that is just one of an infinite number of gods that are in turn just mere fleshly, sinful humans that got cleared for godhood by another god...........on and on and on.

One day you will learn knowledge and look back this day and laugh.

Folks, when you scratch the veneer of Mormonis, it is not pretty. You will find with simple research a past and present that is filled with doctrines that go cross-hairs to the Holy bible, and the very teachings of God.

Your opinion is just your opinion.

It is a human-designed counterfeit of the true gospel, designed on the outside to project a syrupy sweet display to entice those looking for some meaning to life.............and often a belong-ness that the Mormons will certainly supply.

Thank you for more of your priceless opinion.

Once in the LDS church they are gradually massaged along with introductions to the deeper teachings that reveal the true core of Mormonism. This has to be done in order to not scare off new converts.

Stop this man at once! Release the hounds before he let's out the BIG SECRET!

Not so with biblical Christianity. It's all right out their in the open when you go to a true bible teaching church.

Which church would that be according to you?

The "red flags" of Mormon doctrine are everywhere. Once a novice Mormon starts to receive the deeper teachings that would scare off one being initially proselytized, they are so immersed in the familial type bonding that often typifies cult practices, that questioning doctrine and using outside sources other than Mormon are considered wrong, and hurtful to the church.

At every level in our church, the most persistently heard admonishment is "Ask and ye shall receive. Knock and it shall be opened to you." We always say and I mean ALWAYS say: Ask God yourself in private. Don't take it from me.

******

I know that Truthspeaker........(Lord how I can't understand how a person calling themselves a Christian would use that moniker except God Himself, as it reeks of pride and arrogance.)........will go into his bunker mode and "I've answered all that in past posts, Eightball" mantra.............but the problem is.........He hasn't, because he retreats to Mormon doctrine to refute biblical doctrine.

Although you're wrong, that's not the point. I don't care who's right or wrong about his religion. We aren't arguing that. However I do care about getting the facts straight. And I HAVE answered every one of your hundreds of attacks and faux questions in kind. Please as I have asked in the past. Let's go one at a time so I don't have to read your novels. what haven't I answered? My name is also irrelevant to the discussion. But I call myself this because you will all see at the last day that I wasn't lying.

Now either God did a good job of protecting His Word to mankind via the Moses, Abraham, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Amos, Malachi, Solomon, David, Matthew, Mark, John, Luke, Paul, Peter, James.................etc.... because one of God's attributes is that He is OMNIPOTENT which seems conveniently brushed aside by Truth and his little family of Mormon apologists on this thread, or He, God, is WEAK, ANEMIC, UNWATCHFUL, DISTRACTED, UNCARING...........Thus we need this New, Improved, economy sized, gospel spawned from the over active imagination of one Joseph Smither Jr..

Just because you ignore the fact that men have interpolated parts of the Bible and the original Bible is missing and there is not one version of said Bible, doesn't mean that God is weak. It means that He allows us to act for ourselves. It also means that He is all powerful to the point that He doesn't NEED the Bible either. He can speak in many different ways. Most importantly through The Holy Ghost. The Bible is just one of MANY ways God can reach us and teach us. You would pin Him down to just a few pages. Look where that has gotten Christianity over the last 1000 years.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1:65-66 - "No Neutrals In Heaven. There were no neutrals in the war in heaven. ALL TOOK SIDES EITHER WITH CHRIST OR WITH SATAN. (Matt. 12:30; Mark 9:40; Luke 9:50; 11:23). Every man had his agency there, and men receive rewards here based upon their actions there, just as they will receive rewards hereafter for deeds done in the body. The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits." [emphasis in original] [my comment: JFS, grandson of Hyrum Smith, son of Joseph F. Smith, and apostle and president of the LDS church over a plus-sixty year span).

At the time this was given. Blacks could not receive the priesthood. That generation of souls was placed here for God's reasons. If it was because they were less valiant then I don't have a problem with that. The truth is the truth even if it's not popular. Today this is not the case. Obviously they can hold the priesthood today and they were among the very MOST valiant today. Try not to argue with God when we don't have all the answers.

Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1st ed - "There were, of course, no neutral spirits in the war in heaven, any more than there are or can be neutrals in this life where choices between righteousness and unrighteousness are involved. 'He that is not with me is against me,' saith the Lord, 'and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.' (Matt. 12:30; 1 Ne. 14:10; Alma 5:38-40)". (my comment: BRM, son-in-law of JFS, long time general authority of the LDS church, dying as a member of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles.)

[/QUOTE]
Another true statement. You just fail to realize that today's blacks are in the most valiant class. Whites who were never offered the priesthood or exposed to it in the middle ages were in the same boat.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Every year we were given directories of the chuch leadership, it always made me shake my head with how many white males ran the the LDS church. Since the quorum of the 70 was reinstated in 1976, there have been 201 men called to the 1st or 2nd quorum, of those numbers there have been...

1 Native American
2 Africans
8 Asians
33 Hispanics

Pretty sad imo.

-TSO

God doesn't have an affirmative action quota. Let me quote one of my heroes:
"I look forward to the day when men will be judged not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."
Martin Luther King Jr.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Why the hell should us Catholics baptize our dead...?

I don't think any one should baptize their dead.

I don't see anything wrong with "praying to bless" souls, either before during or after life.
Since all spirit is connected, then sending good thoughts and prayers for healing and especially support for forgiveness, correction of past wrongs conflicts or divisions, and uplifting all souls is a positive force.

For Buddhists, the prayers on the anniversary of one's death are revered more than celebrating one's birthday, because it represents the soul's passing to higher spiritual realms, and the connection with future generations as well. So it provides strength for the entire family and heritage.

For Christians, if you believe Jesus descended into hell to reach all those souls across time and space who may not have had connection in Christian prayer, then the prayers for healing and salvation can still connect souls in the past and the future, through Christ, and include them in salvation also. Even if the sins that were not forgiven and resolved are carried by the future generations, the positive prayers help to heal those instead of repeating the same vicious cycle. So the souls can be saved even if the sins or karma is revisited on future generations until the cycle is broken through divine forgiveness and redemption in Christ.

So there are different cultural expressions of this same concept to pray for the souls of the dead in order to bring spiritual peace to all people, all generations, all humanity, joined by conscience or in Christ in loving harmony.

Some things we agree on in your statement. Our ceremonies performing baptisms for the dead are a testament to our faith in Jesus Christ's ability to save everyone who ever lived. Even if they didn't get a chance to hear the gospel in their earthly state.
Can we get everyone's baptism done for those who are deceased? No. But just remember the kid trying to throw the starfish back into the sea. It will all be worked out in the end. No need to fear.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Mormonism, how 'bout, NOT Christian.

How bout our real name? The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Sheesh, your logic is stupidly illogical. "You do understand that being upset by [Aryan racial superiority doctrines] we have the authority to change the course of [assert whatever].

The issue is you have no authority while at the same time you arrogantly abrogate others' family responsibilities. Shame on you.

In English please?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Can't remember if I used this one yet:

Just call me Angel of the Mormon, baby!

Did I?

Things always look a little different in the Mormon.

You are weird man. Thanks for the bump though I guess. could you maybe contribute next time?

 

[Christopher]

Sheesh, your logic is stupidly illogical. "You do understand that being upset by [Aryan racial superiority doctrines] we have the authority to change the course of [assert whatever].

The issue is you have no authority while at the same time you arrogantly abrogate others' family responsibilities. Shame on you.

We believe Jesus and Heavenly Father will judge each person. The only thing we believe that baptisms for the dead affects after this life is whether the person baptized and Jesus accept it or not.

How is it we abrogate others' responsibilities exactly? Were people who had no chance at a knowledge of Christ in this life responsible to somehow know to be baptized?

Because that responsibility is not yours but that of the family of the deceased. Go ask the family, and if they tell you 'no', than you can place the responsibility on them. To do otherwise is to practice unrighteous dominion in the name of God. Have you no decency?

Typically, the names are submitted for baptism by one of the ancestors of the deceased. So, you have no point.

For those who have requested the church not perform proxy baptisms for certain people, the church has listened. So, we do have decency.

Yet, for me personally I never understood why someone would be upset about the church baptizing their ancestors. If they do not believe it does anything, why be upset about it? If the Catholics were to baptize by proxy any of my ancestors I would have no problem with it.

 

[Christopher]

I have started this post because it still seems there are a lot of people out there that don't understand our religion. One thing I know I can do is clarify a lot misconceptions that people have.
I served a two year mission in South Africa, and I think I have pretty much heard it all. I actually would welcome some questions that I haven't heard before.
I know some of you aren't interested in what we really believe, but are only going to be interested in trying to trap me in my words, but that's ok. I welcome those attempts as well. Let's see what this develops into.

Truthspeaker, I am an agnostic and do not sit in judgment of anybody for their religious beliefs. Some people have thought me to be a Buddhist, because I follow much of their insightful reasoning and wisdom, as I perceive that, but I am not one. I don't wish to be one, but I do try to be Buddha-like, only, and in some ways. I have been exposed for 18 years to 4 religions on a regular basis and have even sung in a church choir. I enjoyed those years and those experiences, but nothing can make me believe there is an afterlife. And I won't even discuss the subject after this post. We are all entitled to our beliefs and while some religions disagree with this, we have no right to impose our beliefs on others, in my opinion.

I do wish to say something about the Mormon religion and many of it's followers, that is very positive. I lived in Salt Lake City for two years as a young teen. Everyone I met was a Mormon or a Jack Mormon. I loved them all. I had seen many happy families before moving there but had never seen "such" cohesive happy families as the Mormon family. I loved them all and had fun playing with them. Their parents were busy with their many children and I loved their parents who treated my brother and I just as their own. That made me feel very accepted.

I am from a family of music lovers, on both sides, and music is so very important to me. My father was a classically trained opera singer ( as was my aunt ) and I grew up with that influence and with country/western music. ( South ) When we moved to Salt Lake City, where I learned to snow ski and ice skate, my Dad HAD to hear the beautiful music of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and for two years, every Sunday we went to the Mormon Tabernacle for that reason and so enjoyed the beautiful music and the famous "world's largest organ" both of which were nationally telecast. I would stand in awe of the Temple, at Temple Square, of which no one could enter but the most diligent Mormon and I respected that. We were from First Baptist/Methodist/Catholic backgrounds and experiences. I loved those too. Unless some one is abusing another, I think I love just about eveybody and Mother Nature. I respect our differences as much as I do our similarities. Humanity is one tribe.

Over a year ago, I cast my vote for Mitt Romney, for president and one of the many reasons was because of my experience with the Mormon family and their traditions.

May we all seek understanding and may we all love,

Mermaid*

Thank you for your kind words here. I completely agree with your last sentence.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Truthspeaker does not speak all of the truth. At times names are submitted without family members' knowledge and instead of believing but verifying, the LDS church baptizes anyway. Already the Jewish groups have put the LDS church into a brouhaha twice. I don't the issue is LDS administrative duplicity but sheer stupidness or anger or whatever by some church members. End of story.

 

[Avatar4321]

Look, if Jews and Catholics are united on this issue of Mormon's posthumous Baptism of our dead, then there MUST be something to it.

Jews and Catholics haven't exactly gotten along too well since....well....Christ's Crucifixion.

I can't see why you would have a problem with it, unless you acknowledge that what we do actually effects what happens in the afterlife. If it doesn't, then there is no point being upset because we are wasting our time and resources.

You do understand that by being upset you are acknowledging we have the authority to change the course of someone's Eternal destiny by doing so. So the real question to ask is this: If we have the authority, where does it put you?

Sheesh, your logic is stupidly illogical. "You do understand that being upset by [Aryan racial superiority doctrines] we have the authority to change the course of [assert whatever].

The issue is you have no authority while at the same time you arrogantly abrogate others' family responsibilities. Shame on you.

Your logic is illogical? Seriously, that's the best you can come up with?

If what we do has no effect on the afterlife, then absolutely no one is hurt. If it does, they are blessed. Either way, there is absolutely no point for us to stop or for anyone to be upset over it.

You could do whatever the heck you want to me by proxy after I die. If you dont have any authority, your actions are meaningless.