The Truth about Mormons

[sky dancer]

Ancient Egyptians just called it all the underworld and never bothered with the details, they didn't like claiming to know too much. Though they did have one belief that I liked, it explains a lot about reincarnation and other such beliefs. They have the Ba and Ka of the person, the Ba is your spirit and goes to the underworld (if Anpu allows you to based on how guilty you are) and the Ka moves on to enlighten another spirit with your wisdom and knowledge. Kind of a cool reason why humans kept getting smarter each generation.

What's different about the teachings on the six realms is that there are two ways of viewing them.

On one level, there is the idea that the realms are 'real' 'places' to which one 'goes to'. That's called the teaching as 'skillful means'. It is skillful if it motivates you to work on your mind and heart and uproot the five poisons.

Then there is the wisdom level of the teaching of the realms, which is more subtle. These are not held to exist, except in a dreamlike way--including human existence.

 

[Skeptik]

I know thats why I haven't joined any religion ( gotta keep my options open and almost all of them give me a chance when I am dead)

What if the Christian fundies are right? According to them, you have to believe as they do, or go to hell.

I don't think they're right, BTW, but just in case, shouldn't you try to believe their dogma?

 

[sky dancer]

Dogma, now that's a great name for a poster here.

 

[chloe]

What if the Christian fundies are right? According to them, you have to believe as they do, or go to hell.

I don't think they're right, BTW, but just in case, shouldn't you try to believe their dogma?

hmm, well I suppose I would be out of any kind of saving luck. The odds are better for me to wait it out since alot of religions are willing to give you help afterlife. If there was a religion that touched me deep within my spirit, that my mind, my heart & soul said YES throughout my being and I just felt it resonate so surely, then I would join it. But that hasnt happened. Of course I haven't had a lot of exposure to other major religions. There are only two religions I know more then average about and both have been considered cults by the mainstream society. So thats why I don't join a religion. I just pray to God.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Here is one that I REALLY love in the Pearl of Great Price, one of the latter gospels which the church has even accepted, notice the plural endings:
Abraham 4

That scripture is what we believe to be certain.

 

[Truthspeaker]

You do realize that beasts are considered messengers as well, so to tell them a lie (or "lie before them") would be the same as lying to god. So yeah, the interpretation is still not 100% one way or another.

it's pretty clear. I don't have to defend that interpretation. 1000 out of 1000 people would be able to see that. Except you.

 

[Truthspeaker]

That also reminds me of another teaching a prophet told us so many years ago, the books shall not be worshiped for they themselves condemn idolitry and to place their word above god himself is to break one of his highest commandments. Just to remind you.

Since your interpretations are so wild even when you do quote an exact scripture, who knows how bad the interpretation would be of a scripture you can't even prove exists.

 

[Truthspeaker]

The truth I speak, is as plain as the nose on your face, but you cannot see it. Do you practice the religious teachings you have recieved on pride? I'm trying to find common ground here.

Just because I use firmness with you doesn't mean that I am enveloped with Pride.

 

[Truthspeaker]

You are welcome. His own denial of his flaws will be his greatest sin in the eyes of his own god so meh, let him fester more. As I said, I was called a teacher, and I was only 10 when I earned that title, by many in different congregations in Washington, Oregon, and even one in Utah.

I think we have established that you have a different interpretation of the scriptures than other LDS members. No for anyone who is following. Which account would you believe is our true doctrine, the person who is not only anti-Mormon but anti religious with less than acceptable knowledge of scripture or the person who lives and studies his religion daily?

 

[Truthspeaker]

I am careful not to make truthspeaker too mad, because I still live UTAH girls & cats, and you know what that means (Im scared).....TruthSpeaker might put the Mormon Mafia on me.

DANITES:
The Mormon's official stand is that the Danites do not exist! They are only a legend, invented by those bent on Mormon bashing. And, as a result, the average, every day Mormon probably has never heard of them. Or, if they have, they view such information as a lie from the Devil!

However, the historical record is very clear on this (even among Mormon historians). Joseph Smith's teachings (and bedroom activities?) seemed to always stir up trouble for his band of followers. So, in self-defense(?) he formed a body guard, known as the Danites, to protect his person, and other notables among their utopian community. However, despite these precautions, he was still killed in a mob riot against Mormonism.

As a result, when Brigham Young moved the main band out to Utah, he reorganized the Danites, made them stronger, and formed them into more of an organized militia like organization--ready to fight with modern military weapons and using standard army tactics. The records tend to show that this small band was hightly trained, very skilled at warfare, and mobile enough to strike at any point in the Deseret Empire (which at that time, they considered to be all of Western America, from the Mississippi on to the Pacific.) Moreover, the historical records list hundreds upon hundreds of Mormon men, who were proud to serve in their Nation's Armed Services, in this manner.

THE KOLOB TRANSFORMATION
Then, we come to the 1880s. We have already noted the strange events and occurances that seemed to go on at this time, that transformed Mormon society a lot. So, it should not be surprizing that this transition time also had a dramatic impact on the Danites, as well. For one thing, they began to fade away as Public Armed Forces, and go underground, with more and more clandestined activities. And more and more SECRET AGENTS (Wild, Wild West!)! Moreover, rather than attacking in standard military formation in the daylight, they took to more and more guerilla style raids, in the middle of the night (Gestopo like tactics).

Well, perhaps the growing presence of the U.S. Military had something to do with this? However, other evidence points to the arrival of Kolob at about this time, and the establishment of the growing RANI presence among the Mormon colony. So, it seems more likely that this was a result of Kolob strategy and training. Even as they employed in Germany, developing there a very highly effecient Secret Service for the German Intelligence Arm, which later became ABWEHR and the dreaded Gestopo. And they all seem to share similar strategy and tactics--indicating a common school of thought (from Kolob).

THE VANISHING VAPOR:
Thus, it is not surprizing that the historical records become slim here, considering the change to covert operations and resultant secrecy. After all, once Deseret joined the Union, if would not be wise to let it be known that the Mormons still maintained their own private army! However, they did.
And we get a few peeks through the cracks at what that may have been like. The famous TV Program WILD, WILD WEST, has caused many to speculate that this was the way it was, with James West working not for the President of the U.S. (as most assumed in watching the TV show), but rather he was actually working for the President of the Mormon Church! (The producers of the later movie wisely changed this viewpoint--but for some reason, the movie is just not a popular as the original T.V. Show!!!)

THE MORMON MAFIA EMERGES...
And in control of America's Secret Services!!!
The next major event that comes to light concering the Danites is about mid-way through the Cold War. As America was having difficulties fighting communism, various government agents began showing up at Congress, complaining that the Mormon Mafia was in control of both the CIA and the FBI! And that these Organizations were only promoting Mormons to supervisory positions. (Dozens of cases can be brought forth to show this a common complaint!)
The Mormon Church countered, claiming that their returning Missionaries were only naturals for the jobs of these special agents. For, the missionaries (sent oversees by the Mormon Church as youths) had desirable overseas experiences, which most of the other applicants did not! It gave them an edge on placement--or was it bias?

However, the officials failed to address the issues of divided loyalties of such agents (for Deseret or for US?), and why the major recuriting offices for both CIA and FBI were at Brigham Young University (separation of church and state?), and even worse, why such trained agents seemed to become disillusioned and leave the US Intelligence Organizations in record numbers--only to join the Mormon SECURITY FORCE??? (We appeared to be training the Danites!) Moreover, western folklore is filled with legends and tall tales of cowboy style AVENGING ANGELS, riding the range, and slitting the throats of those Mormons who became heretical and broke their oath! (Not to mention relocating various undesirables as a subtle ethnic cleansing program, to keep Deseret territories pure.) And, this vigilanti style justice is still all too admired in Mormon communities, today!

AXIS POWERS - Radical Anti-Semitism
The Mormon attitude to do away with all the traditional churches matches the typical RAS attitude of wiping out everything of Hebrew origin. (And since the churches developed from Judaism, then they must be done away with, too.) Which is to say nothing of their common, nasty attitudes towards Jews (their radical replacement theology holds that they are the only true Jews--the rest are all fakes and frauds)!
ECONOMIC WARFARE - Relocation Policies
Since the open killing of undesireables might raise international attention and cries of Human Rights violations, the Danites tend to rely more on economic hardships to drive their targets out of Deseret territory. Which has earned them the reputation of being the Mormon Maifa ("ya eider woirk fo da boss, or yas dona woirk at all").
Their Economic Warfare operations often consists of:


A. Theft of business and trade secrets (noted, bove).

B. Subsidising competion against non-Danite businesses.

C. The old immediate success, over-expansion, and collapse of business routine (often including B, above).

D. Economic sabotage--mysterious or bizarre accidents; amazingly hard luck (businesses burning down), etc. (and often presented as God's curse upon the non-Mormon for not joining the LDS)

E. Inordinate Competition--corruption, bribery, black mail, etc. (see Organized Crime, below)

Thus, without a means of livelihood, the undesirables will tend to move away (or are basically run out of the country)! Keeping Deseret CLEAN!!! (Yes, a very subtle Ethnic Cleansing Program.)
GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION - The Maze of Taxation Scams
Well, someone once said, that the best way to go into busines is to USE SOMEONE ELSE'S MONEY! Consequently, the Danites have many elaborate Tax Scams, where the citizen thinks he is supporting and paying for one thing (for public good), but actually ends up financing Danite Operations!
This appears to be what is going on with the Dark Projects. The money is being appropriated by taxation, but somehow disappears down the rabbit hole with Alice, so who knows what it is eventually used for. And try to get a GAO audit of a Dark Project? Ho, ho, ho! Merry Christmas--it is easier for that fat man to squeeze into a house without a chimney!

Moreover, this was one of our big run ins early on with Mormons! Working in a Public School, I saw some things that looked like funny money to me, so I reported it to the State Authorities. But, rather than an investigation, I got RAS harassment dumped on me and run out of the school district! And, I was warned by a Danite representative that they were going to lay such an economic hardship on me, that I'd never work in this State again! And, I was unemployed for a long time. (Consequently, I started poking my own nose about, to see what all was really up, and began to turn up more and more on the Morman Mafia--until I arrived at Kolob, and its Axis Alliance!)

SOCIAL DISEASE - Organized Crime and Mafia Matters
Well, some years back, the Iran-Contra scam blew up and hit the news. There, CIA agents were selling dope and drugs to raise the money to pay for their covert operations. Talk about corruption! (And, just what were they doing with our tax dollars that were appropriated for their operations?)
In this regard, the Danites really do deserve their common name of Mormon Mafia. And their list of criminal activites include:

A. Real Estate Cons and Land Scams;

B. Estate Robbery and Inheritance Theivery (above);

C. Prostitution and White Slavery;

D. Dope and Drugs (noted here);

E. Gambling and crooked games;

F. Extortion and Blackmail (esp. statutory rape scams);

The Rising Power of Deseret Under the Danites!!!
Well, are you still laughing? Yeah, once you get a good look at the extensive Danite Organization and its wide-spread Operations, there is no doubt in your mind that they are more than capable of carrying off their avowed goal of overthrowing the sovereignty of the U.S. federal government over its own soil. For, that is basically what they have already done, while we were sleeping. And, now, the job is nearly complete!

Kolob Secret Service

Wow, that was amazing. I guess you were saving that one for a while. This I will say about the Danites and the rest I will easily dismiss as wild folklore. The site you copied and pasted from is absolutely bonkers as they site one credible source, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, then immediately launch a smear campaign of hysterical proportions without any other sources to back up their proposterous and comical claims.
Yes Joseph did institute a private body guard. No big deal since people were constantly trying to kill him for his boldness of speech and prophecies which came true. The rest is so absurd it would be a waste of breath to talk more about it.

 

[Truthspeaker]

STRANGE CONNECTIONS

by Karen Allen

In the ongoing matter of the seven US Attorneys being fired for political reasons, it’s interesting to look at the threads and knots beneath the tapestry. As an example, let's take a look at Kyle Sampson, who recently resigned his title as Chief of Staff for Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. Sampson didn't quit, he just gave up his title. Today, he is still drawing his full salary at the Department of Justice.


Two of Sampson’s, and relatedly Gonzales', most staunch supporters in the media have been Rep. Chris Cannon (R-UT) and Senator Orrin Hatch (R-UT). The relationships of these men and others who are outspoken for Sampson run deep and mysteriously.

Sheldon Bradshaw, a former Bush deputy US Attorney General and now Counsel in the Food and Drug Administration, says Sampson has "an outstanding legal mind." Bradshaw is said to have slowed down the prosecution of tobacco companies by the FDA. Bradshaw also is first counselor to Kyle Sampson, in the same ward (district) where Sampson is the bishop in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Salt Lake City. Sheldon graduated from Brigham Young University.

Corrine Larsen Bradshaw worked for Senator Orrin Hatch. Mrs. Bradshaw is the wife of the above Sheldon Bradshaw. She also was legislative director for Utah Senator Robert Bennett.

Elizabeth Cheney, daughter of Vice President Dick Cheney, is a good friend of Sampson’s and was a classmate of his in law school. It was Elizabeth who is said to have put a word in with her father to get Sampson a top job in the Bush administration. Hatch was also instrumental.

Sampson practiced law in Salt Lake City until 1999, when he then began working in the office of Senator Orrin Hatch.

Brad Berenson was an associate counsel to Bush in the first term. He states Sampson has "a shrewd political talent." Berenson is now Sampson’s lawyer in the US Attorney matter now under Congressional scrutiny.

An email released in the document dump this past Thursday suggests Sampson as early as 2005 may have tried to push US Attorney for Utah Paul Warner out of his job so Sampson could then be appointed US Attorney. Warner did leave his position in 2006 to become a federal magistrate.

DownWithTyranny!: IS THERE A MORMON MAFIA BEHIND KYLE SAMPSON? OR JUST A NETWORK OF FAR RIGHT EXTREMISTS?

I don't see the big complaint or worry about Mafia here? What happened so terribly wrong. Nothing.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Mormon Mafia Removed by 9th Circuit
By Christopher Hansen

This is so exciting I am reporting it before I have all the details. I will soon have the entire Court order and will post it.

Judge Jones, who in this reporter humble opinion, was working in conjunction with Deputy Attorney General Damm and a Mormon IRS agent stepped far past the “avoid the appearance of impropriety” standard that public servants should meet. But then again this is Tax Law SO SHUT UP AND PAY is the only law these criminals follow.

To be very clear: Greg Damm is a Mormon. The lead IRS agent in this case is also a Mormon. I am LDS, by the way, so this is not an exposé on The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints but an exposé on members of this faith that have abused their authority, violated their oath of office and committed acts, which to me, can only be considered felonious and even treasonous.

As I previously posted back in February before this site was stricly a news site:

On February 11, 2008, at approximately 3:15 P.M., Bobby Kahre’s attorney, William A. Cohan met with Assistant U. S. Attorney (“AUSA”) J. Gregory Damm, Department of Justice Tax Division Attorney (“DOJ-TDA”) Jared Dwyer, IRS Special Agents Ryan Rickey and Jared Halper; and Defense Counsel Michael Kennedy and Joel Hansen (Yes he is my brother).

At this meeting Greg Damm exposed his true feelings about this case telling this entire group: “Bill, you threatened my job and my pension.”

Mr. Cohan responded: “I have never threatened you, nor could I; I have no power to do that; I have only prosecuted claims in court on behalf of my client.”

Greg Damm’s voice rose as he said: “Bill, it’s personal. You threatened my job and my pension.”

“IT’S PERSONAL”?

Maybe this Mormon Mafioso Damm forgot that if it is personal the proper thing to do is to step down. But Damm was not worried because Mormon Mafioso Judge Jones was there to protect him (as he did IMHO). Well not any more.

The Ninth Circuit Court removed Mormon Mafioso Judge Jones from this case. The exact reasons will be reported on as soon as I can get my hands on the Ruling and write the article.

There is an interesting verse in Mormon Scripture:

Hel. 6: 38 And it came to pass on the other hand, that the Nephites did build them up (the Mafia of the day) and support them, beginning at the more wicked part of them, until they had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils, and to join with them in their secret murders and combinations.

Does this ever fit these mafia IRS loving criminals. It also fits the Bush Administration and the Democrats that partake in evil spoils, and to join with evil men in their secret murders and combinations

Independent American News » Blog Archive » One of the Mormon Mafia Removed by 9th Circuit

If this is true, then it goes back to my earlier point, that there are wicked and corrupt members of the church who act on their own as pointed out in Helaman and the church was fighting against these mafia members called secret combinations.
Joseph Smith had something to say about people like this in the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith "Do not betray Jesus Christ, do not betray the doctrine, do not betray the brethren by forming yourselves with wicked men, for nothing is worse than to know the gospel of Christ and not live it's teachings. That man is worse than an infadel."

Although an interesting post it was off topic as to the truth about Mormons and our official doctrine.

 

[Truthspeaker]

The worst ones are actually those who hold very low positions in the church, the commoners. The higher ups are actually pretty cool people, for the most part, but they are few compared to the number of members. Almost all members these days do nothing but pay lip service and spout off about how they are right. But they forget one fact of the history of the church, Mormons were a persecuted minority when they were first founded, and in having gone through that they value minorities more, though the followers rarely admit that the minorities hold the keys to the kingdoms, not them. "It is the weakest, meekest, and few that shall hold the keys to the kingdom of heaven, for how you treat them is how you treat me." The followers who have turned on others and persecuted anyone (gay, other religions, even hookers) are the evil empire that is growing from the once pure bush.

In the words of God to Job and his friends in chapter 40: "Who is this that darkeneth my counsel by words without knowledge."
I already long long ago brought up our history as a persecuted minority and already stated my position on the blessed state of blacks in the church( which you guys immediately dropped the issue and switched subjects) I already showed scripture about the meek who shall inherit the earth. We are not persecuting anyone. You have no knowledge of what persecution is. we don't gay bash, violate , act violently or afflict anyone and you have not shown any evidence of us doing so and have made more a fool out of yourself with each post. And when I expose your false doctrines all you can do is jump back and revert to calling me a liar liar pants on fire with nothing to back it up. You are a fraud of the 3rd degree because you aren't even good at lying or you would be a fraud of the 1st degree.
Learn knowledge. Get a life.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Here's a little fun fact about the afterlife according to Mormon beliefs:
Three Kingdoms of Glory - Heaven and Hell
Took me awhile to get around to finding it online with all the annoyances of you know who.

wouldn't have taken you so long to find it if you were reading my posts. about 10 pages ago. Shows again that you are not reading my posts and are exposed again.

 

[Truthspeaker]

The most logical argument for not picking one over the other that I have heard in a looong time. I chose Ancient Egyptian because most others are based on theirs anyway so why not get to the root of it all and avoid the preachers.

wow.

 

[Truthspeaker]

hmm, well I suppose I would be out of any kind of saving luck. The odds are better for me to wait it out since alot of religions are willing to give you help afterlife. If there was a religion that touched me deep within my spirit, that my mind, my heart & soul said YES throughout my being and I just felt it resonate so surely, then I would join it. But that hasnt happened. Of course I haven't had a lot of exposure to other major religions. There are only two religions I know more then average about and both have been considered cults by the mainstream society. So thats why I don't join a religion. I just pray to God.

If you really believe in God and pray to him believing you will receive an answer he will show you which way to go.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Well I guess I have answered all questions and await any more for people who would really like to know what we believe and I will give actual sources from our official cannon of scripture and literature. I honestly would join you guys in a buddism thread and I would ask genuine questions to gain knowledge of your religion and not try to tear it down. Let's keep on topic if we can please. Good night.

 

[pegwinn]

The sad thing is that all the Mormons who opposed gay marriage are anti-Mormon. They are not true mormons because going against a minority group is the same as saying that their own struggle during the founding was pointless and that they should have been exterminated as those who attacked them wanted. I'm sorry, but your logic here is wrong. Of course one minority can be against another without nullifying their own struggle. Speak to any native Hawaiian who dislikes blacks for a real world example.

Also it is a sin, claiming to know the will of their god is a very BIG sin, and one that is not forgiven. By assuming that their god doesn't want gay men and women to legally marry they condemed themselves to damnation. Now I realise that I am not a Mormon. I am in fact a religion of one. Meaning my relationship with God is literally one-to-one. However, I have read a small bit and can readily discern the "will of God" in my readings. Nowhere that I have read makes it a sin to do so. And, unless times have changed, the only unforgivable sin is repudiation.

Also by blaming those ignorant of what they see as a sin they also broke another law in the gospel. No, those who claim to be mormon that oppose gay marriage are not and never will be Mormon, and as far as their own god is concerned they are no longer alive. Also, the Mormon marriage is different, the legal documents for the marriage are NOT that valuable to them except in divorces, taxes, and visitation rights in the hospital. To them only marriage in their temple counts, so logically allowing gays the legal right to marriage doesn't even effect them, and those who think otherwise are just arrogant again, and again it's a big sin to be arrogant. FWIIW I actually agree with that. I believe that there should be nothing in the .gov to do with marraige in any form. None, nada, zippo. No tax breaks, no alimony, no divorce, no nohting. Marraige is a religious issue only. For the other stuff, draw up a domestic partnership contract. Call it me-n-you LLC.

This thread is rapidly degenerating into yet another cat fight (pardon the pun) over "gay rights" disguised as a religious discussion.

Perhaps a new thread is in order?

Final Question: If you are excommunicated, what happens when you die? Apparently you don't rate a second chance since you obviously heard and understood the gospels. Does being cast out of the church mean that you are denied entry to one of the three kingdoms that you explained waaaaaaaay back in the day?

 

[Truthspeaker]

This thread is rapidly degenerating into yet another cat fight (pardon the pun) over "gay rights" disguised as a religious discussion.

Perhaps a new thread is in order?

Final Question: If you are excommunicated, what happens when you die? Apparently you don't rate a second chance since you obviously heard and understood the gospels. Does being cast out of the church mean that you are denied entry to one of the three kingdoms that you explained waaaaaaaay back in the day?

Thanks for being voice of reason and staying on topic. I haven't had too many good questions to answer lately because once I answered all the anti mormons questions and fended off all their attacks, they result to neener neeners and liar liar pants on fire. I only respond because I can't let them take over the thread and change subjects every second.
Just because someone is excommunicated doesn't mean that final judgment has been passed. Each of the three witnesses were ex communicated as well, but found their way back to church, well, two of them. None denied their witness of the Book of Mormon. To answer your question, I don't know what their state will exactly be, since I don't know every person's circumstances, but it takes a whole heck of a lot of work to get ex ed. I don't think a lot of those people will be around for the millenium.
A little firsthand experience is my Grandparents. They were both excommunicated for cheating on eachother while they had nine kids already. Wow, I know, weird for anyone especially a mormon. But excommunication for them was more of a wakeup call and took it as a step in their repentance process rather than leave the church and never come back. They had all their privileges stripped away including priesthood and temple recommends. They repented and eventually were restored to their status. It took a long time, but they did it.

 

[sky dancer]

Just because I use firmness with you doesn't mean that I am enveloped with Pride.

I know the difference. You are full of yourself.

I've offered several possible topics to discuss to find common ground and you haven't responded to a single one.

Why? My guess is that you know you can't convert me, so you have no interest in discussing theology or religion of any kind unless you can proselytize LDS.