The Truth about Mormons

[Truthspeaker]

well, THEN you'd be living in a deeper fantasy world than you already do. You are not the first person to claim to have gods email address in your head. From stone age mythology to new age alien crap there is nothing rare about someone who claims to have personal enlightenment from a higher power.

Sounds good to me

Im sure it does. Hell, i'm sure it does wonders for your ego.. if not for the truth.

Sure why not?

 

[Truthspeaker]

meh!. It's pretty pathetic and highly illogical for anyone to assume that this was the will of the Mormons, even at the time it happened. Brigham Young wept like a child when he learned of the massacre.

I've actually been to this area where the massacre occurred. Have you?

I see this is a loaded question, get to your point.

 

[Truthspeaker]

yea dude.. Young sure did cry like a baby! Or, better yet, YOU'd THINK SO just to keep him canonized in your own mind. After all.. nothing says WEEPED FOR THE DEAD quite like denying it for years.


and, did you REALLY just talk about an "unbiased" account right before posting a link to.. a mormon source?


come on, dude. I'm starting to feel like Saul here.

It's pretty funny what an orthodox LDS believer thinks is an "unbiased" source, innit?

I guess then in your eyes, the stories on your side of the fence would be unbiased?

 

[Truthspeaker]

yea dude.. Young sure did cry like a baby! Or, better yet, YOU'd THINK SO just to keep him canonized in your own mind. After all.. nothing says WEEPED FOR THE DEAD quite like denying it for years.


and, did you REALLY just talk about an "unbiased" account right before posting a link to.. a mormon source?


come on, dude. I'm starting to feel like Saul here.

I can see you didn't read the source. Just because it's on a mormon site doesn't mean it's biased. You can prejudge it but you really can't say anything till you read it. First rule of debate, know your sources before you spout off.

dude. come the fuck on. I'm not interested in making excuses for the isnight on racism found at niggermania dot com. If you can't find a source that is NOT a bunch of mormons jacking off over mormon beliefs then perhaps you should reconsider why your quiver is empty in this thread.

You are such a retard. Read the source then come back at me with problems you have with the article. Show me what problem you have. Get rid of your ridiculous little smoke screen and speak english rather than the crap that comes from your mouth.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Your church history that is very suspect may say that "they" were disobedient to Brigham Young. What does historical records say that aren't from your churchs' source?

What does it prove? A lot! It determines whether Brigham Young, an LDS co-founder/prophet was a false prophet, and also a very evil man.

The quality of your arguments is very low. Like I said a long time ago in the very first page of the thread. I am not here to change your mind regarding conclusions you have drawn. I think they are premature at best since you haven't read the Book of Mormon all the way through or any of our other standard works. You haven't read Dr. Nibley's "Lehi in the Desert and the World of the Jaredites", nor have you read Anthropologist John L. Sorenson's "An Ancient Setting for The Book of Mormon"; Both which chronicle thousands of archaeological, anthropologic, historical and linguistic evidences. You probably haven't watched every single show on History Channel about ancient Meso American civilization like I have, or poured over every National Geographic Magazine relating to said civlization.

Nonetheless, you are entitled to your conclusions based on the logic in your own mind. All fine and well. What amazes me is that you seem to not want to allow others to come to a different conclusion. As if somehow the matter has been decided. The debate will be eternal and as I said before I know what I know and if you feel the same way, why don't you just stop the attack and engage in your own positive cause. If you know we are so wrong, and we won't change our minds then allow us to be wrong.

I have a different understanding because of the things I have learned spiritually first then supported with secular evidences. I would die before I renounced those beliefs. Christ has made it known to me by the power of the Holy Ghost. No one can take that from me. So why don't we part ways if you don't have any questions for me?
And I might add, if you do have any more legitimate questions, please ask them one at a time so order can be restored here and I can deal with one issue at a time.
Thanks

I've asked a myriad of questions, and you've answered them.........by divine revelations?

You see, Truthspeaker, your whole doctrine or where your coming from doesn't allow for logical, or objective debate/discussion.

J.S. Jr. or Brigham Y. said it or one of your President/Prophets, and thats the end of it. You totally ignore one big old LDS filled warehouse of legitimate questions.

The Massacre at Mountain meadows got the "green light" from your higher-ups in the church at the time.

Here's a question? Why did President Theodore Roosevelt demand that the American flag be taken down from the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake? There was something very unAmerican going on in Salt Lake..............and it centered around your church..........?

Here's another? How can you baptize people who are dead, when the Lord's baptism with water representing the co-death, co-burial, and co-ressurrection of the living or alive at the time, true, saved Christian believer in Christ?

Your church has taken Paul's mention of the baptism of the dead totally out of context. Christian theologians to a person agree that Paul wasn't referring to proxy baptisms of dead people by baptizing live people in their name. Again, a very weird, and bazaar thing.

How about magic underware with it's little occult symbols: What does that have to do with Christianity?

Why can't non-Mormons attend their Mormon friend's wedding in the temple?

Biblical Christians welcome anyone of any faith or non-faith to come and celebrate with the bride and grooms nuptials in a church, or anywhere.

Where does the bible say that marriage will continue in heaven? The bible does however say that the relationships between believers in heaven will be greater than any earthly bonds..........We will know our believer wives in an even stronger bond of love than we can experience here on earth. Christ will be the center and the Light of heaven. All will focus on God, and Christ, and will not be spending their time having sex with multiple wives........a most base, and earthy, manmade, convolution.

Where does the bible talk about celestial sexual intercourse, or spirit babies?

You want questions. I bet you have to go back to sources other than the bible?

Now we're almost talking. 1 at a time please. Which one do you want me to answer first?

 

[Eightball]

meh!. It's pretty pathetic and highly illogical for anyone to assume that this was the will of the Mormons, even at the time it happened. Brigham Young wept like a child when he learned of the massacre.

I've actually been to this area where the massacre occurred. Have you?

I see this is a loaded question, get to your point.

Good patent, dodge of a reply..........What's your question? He asked if you've been there?.........If Brigham cried, it was most likely crocodile tears to impress the U.S. Government military inspectors.

Must we translate for you?

Brigham, and Smith were very calloused men.........not the crying type except when cornered with their hands in the cookie jar, and did they ever have a lot of cookie jar scenarios happen!

By the way.........Truthspeaker...........Your revelations from the holy spirit.............how do you confirm that the message was from the holy spirit, and not some other counterfeit spirit, sent by Satan, the great counterfeiter of all?

Christians go back to the bible as directed by Jesus' apostle Paul.

Do you go back to the bible to confirm that your revelation agrees with God's Word the bible?

 

[Truthspeaker]

All..... I will have to reply later tonight, I need to get my work done. We do work here in San Francisco. It's not all play and blogging. Keep it coming..........

 

[Eightball]

The quality of your arguments is very low. Like I said a long time ago in the very first page of the thread. I am not here to change your mind regarding conclusions you have drawn. I think they are premature at best since you haven't read the Book of Mormon all the way through or any of our other standard works. You haven't read Dr. Nibley's "Lehi in the Desert and the World of the Jaredites", nor have you read Anthropologist John L. Sorenson's "An Ancient Setting for The Book of Mormon"; Both which chronicle thousands of archaeological, anthropologic, historical and linguistic evidences. You probably haven't watched every single show on History Channel about ancient Meso American civilization like I have, or poured over every National Geographic Magazine relating to said civlization.

Nonetheless, you are entitled to your conclusions based on the logic in your own mind. All fine and well. What amazes me is that you seem to not want to allow others to come to a different conclusion. As if somehow the matter has been decided. The debate will be eternal and as I said before I know what I know and if you feel the same way, why don't you just stop the attack and engage in your own positive cause. If you know we are so wrong, and we won't change our minds then allow us to be wrong.

I have a different understanding because of the things I have learned spiritually first then supported with secular evidences. I would die before I renounced those beliefs. Christ has made it known to me by the power of the Holy Ghost. No one can take that from me. So why don't we part ways if you don't have any questions for me?
And I might add, if you do have any more legitimate questions, please ask them one at a time so order can be restored here and I can deal with one issue at a time.
Thanks

I've asked a myriad of questions, and you've answered them.........by divine revelations?

You see, Truthspeaker, your whole doctrine or where your coming from doesn't allow for logical, or objective debate/discussion.

J.S. Jr. or Brigham Y. said it or one of your President/Prophets, and thats the end of it. You totally ignore one big old LDS filled warehouse of legitimate questions.

The Massacre at Mountain meadows got the "green light" from your higher-ups in the church at the time.

Here's a question? Why did President Theodore Roosevelt demand that the American flag be taken down from the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake? There was something very unAmerican going on in Salt Lake..............and it centered around your church..........?

Here's another? How can you baptize people who are dead, when the Lord's baptism with water representing the co-death, co-burial, and co-ressurrection of the living or alive at the time, true, saved Christian believer in Christ?

Your church has taken Paul's mention of the baptism of the dead totally out of context. Christian theologians to a person agree that Paul wasn't referring to proxy baptisms of dead people by baptizing live people in their name. Again, a very weird, and bazaar thing.

How about magic underware with it's little occult symbols: What does that have to do with Christianity?

Why can't non-Mormons attend their Mormon friend's wedding in the temple?

Biblical Christians welcome anyone of any faith or non-faith to come and celebrate with the bride and grooms nuptials in a church, or anywhere.

Where does the bible say that marriage will continue in heaven? The bible does however say that the relationships between believers in heaven will be greater than any earthly bonds..........We will know our believer wives in an even stronger bond of love than we can experience here on earth. Christ will be the center and the Light of heaven. All will focus on God, and Christ, and will not be spending their time having sex with multiple wives........a most base, and earthy, manmade, convolution.

Where does the bible talk about celestial sexual intercourse, or spirit babies?

You want questions. I bet you have to go back to sources other than the bible?

Now we're almost talking. 1 at a time please. Which one do you want me to answer first?

Don't play games..........just answer!

 

[Sunni Man]

History of Beer in Utah

In 1833, Joseph Smith received a "revelation" known as the Word of Wisdom: the famed doctrine that prohibited members of the LDS faith to intake wine, hot drinks, tobacco and— strangely— the flesh of wild animals (which could only consumed in times of winter cold and famine). In Volume 12 of Brigham Young’s Journal of Discourses, Young describes how early church meetings were held at Joseph Smith’s house, the elder converts often chewing and smoking tobacco, occasionally spitting on Smith’s floor. Not pleased with the lingering "cloud of tobacco smoke" that he usually found himself in (coupled with his wife’s complaints of having to clean a tobacco-riddled floor afterwards), caused Smith to make an "inquiry" to the Lord, eventually leading to the Word of Wisdom. Today, Church members adhere to this doctrine quite strictly … but it wasn’t always that way. Back when Salt Lake City was in its infancy, the church and its members proved to be both active and vital in the movement to keep Utah soaked in booze. Economically, it was a great way to attract people to Utah’s ever-growing populace.

A Mormon (one that was oft accused of killing people) started the first Utah brewery. Indeed, the infamous Orrin Porter Rockwell established the Hot Springs Brewery Hotel in 1856 (Valley Tan; November 6, 1858). Rockwell himself was a colorful character: he was the personal bodyguard to both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, and with his Manson-like beard and intense, thunderous eyes, he turned out to be as intimidating as he looked. During a speech given by Vice President Schuyler Colfax in 1869, Porter was noted as to have blurted out "I never killed anyone who didn’t need killing." This certainly makes sense when you take into account the fact that he was arrested for the murders and attempted murders of multiple men,

Though we can only theorize about what motivated Young’s wheelings and dealings , it’s safe to make the assumption that Young – already known as a smart businessman – was in it for the money. The whole point of establishing Utah breweries (and cotton missions and factories) in the first place was to cultivate business and – more importantly – to prevent Utah from wasting money by importing valuable items like beer, whisky and fabrics. Young saw an economic opportunity and immediately seized it, even though he never drank the stuff. So, in an unofficial sense, the Church controlled all of the liquor in Utah; an 1874 edition of The Gazetteer of Utah even has a listing for the Salt Lake City Brewery being housed in Salt Lake’s Tenth Ward! Yet beer and whisky weren’t the only dealings that the Church had with "spirituous liquors". It wasn’t very long until the Valley was swarming with beer and wine. There was so much, in fact, that some Mormons actually began paying their tithing in wine (a report from the St. George Tithing Office [later republished Leonard J. Arrington’s 1966 book Desert Saints] showed that the office had collected more than 7000 gallons of wine by early 1887). Everyone had their own idea of how much wine constituted a full tithing payment, eventually leading a Church tithing-clerk to issue instructions on how to standardize the wine/tithing process in a letter dated September 20, 1879.

The fact of the matter is, however, that the abundance of Utah breweries were gradually leading to frequent displays of public drunkenness, and soon the Church was growing worried about the affect that mass public intoxication was having on its image. According to Jerald & Sandra Tanner’s 1979 book, The Changing World of Mormonism, it wasn’t until 1887 that the church stopped making its own wine, soon followed by a greater pressure for people to adhere to the Word of Wisdom, a move, which would no doubt quell the drunkenness among Church members. The Church’s saving grace came in 1919, when Utah ratified the Eighteenth Amendment, putting prohibition into full effect. In 1921, it was Heber J. Grant that ultimately made adherence to the Word of Wisdom a strict requirement to enter the Temple, thus forcing many faithful members to clean up their acts whether they liked it or not.

SLUG Magazine | History of Beer in Utah

 

[ABikerSailor]

Hey Sunnidiot.........doesn't YOUR religion ban alcohol?

What's even more........if you don't drink beer, then you're just a HOG poser biker.

If you do, you're a muslim hypocrite.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Hey Sunnidiot.........doesn't YOUR religion ban alcohol?

What's even more........if you don't drink beer, then you're just a HOG poser biker.

If you do, you're a muslim hypocrite.

 

[Sunni Man]

Wild Bill Hickman
and the Mormon Frontier

Author HOPE A. HILTON


William Adams ("Wild Bill") Hickman was one of the most notorious outlaws of the nineteenth-century American frontier. As a bodyguard and spy for Mormon church presidents Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, he was popularly known as a "destroying angel." However, a matter of disagreement among historians is whether he acted more often in his church's interest or independently as a true renegade.

Hickman obeyed the Mormon teaching of polygamy and was husband to ten wives and father to thirty-five children. During the Utah War of 1857-58, he rallied with his fellow Mormons and was one of the most effective guerillas in the hit-and-run attacks that wore down the attacking U.S. Army. When he was later arrested and jailed for murdering a government arms dealer during the war, his troubles multiplied when he implicated Brigham Young.

When he died in Wyoming in 1883, his reputation in three states forced many of his relatives to change their name to escape the social stigma of family ties, while the residents of the small town in which he died refused to bury him in the city cemetery. Still, whatever one thinks of his motives or degree of loyalty, Hickman left an indelible impact on the history and myth of the West as a rough, undisciplined frontiersman who nevertheless helped to establish the Rocky Mountain kingdom of Mormons.

William Adams Hickman - A Mormon Bodyguard and Spy - One of the most notorious outlaws of the nineteenth-century American frontier

Ol Billy had a screw loose. So what?

He was the personal hand picked body guard of both Presidents Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.

Hickman is said to have killed some 54 men under direct orders from Brigham Young.

 

[Shogun]

Sounds good to me

Im sure it does. Hell, i'm sure it does wonders for your ego.. if not for the truth.

Sure why not?

Indeed, Jim Jones, why NOT?

 

[Shogun]

I can see you didn't read the source. Just because it's on a mormon site doesn't mean it's biased. You can prejudge it but you really can't say anything till you read it. First rule of debate, know your sources before you spout off.

dude. come the fuck on. I'm not interested in making excuses for the isnight on racism found at niggermania dot com. If you can't find a source that is NOT a bunch of mormons jacking off over mormon beliefs then perhaps you should reconsider why your quiver is empty in this thread.

You are such a retard. Read the source then come back at me with problems you have with the article. Show me what problem you have. Get rid of your ridiculous little smoke screen and speak english rather than the crap that comes from your mouth.

No, I think i'll go ahead and hold you to the same standard I apply to everyone else. If you can't find an unbiased source then it looks like you fail.. Again.. (I count making silly statements about droves of mormons in missouri despite being a meager 1% of the population)


oh, and I'll use the nomenclature I want. Be glad i'm not treating you like abiker(gay)sailor

 

[Truthspeaker]

I've actually been to this area where the massacre occurred. Have you?

I see this is a loaded question, get to your point.

Good patent, dodge of a reply..........What's your question? He asked if you've been there?.........If Brigham cried, it was most likely crocodile tears to impress the U.S. Government military inspectors.

Must we translate for you?

Brigham, and Smith were very calloused men.........not the crying type except when cornered with their hands in the cookie jar, and did they ever have a lot of cookie jar scenarios happen!

By the way.........Truthspeaker...........Your revelations from the holy spirit.............how do you confirm that the message was from the holy spirit, and not some other counterfeit spirit, sent by Satan, the great counterfeiter of all?

Christians go back to the bible as directed by Jesus' apostle Paul.

Do you go back to the bible to confirm that your revelation agrees with God's Word the bible?

there's a good question. Actually I did go back to the Bible. Matthew say "by their fruits ye shall know them." In Galatians chapter 5 the fruits of the flesh and the fruits of the spirit are defined thus:

5:17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one other, that you may not do the things that you desire.

5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

5:19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness,

5:20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies,

5:21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

5:23 gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

5:24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.

5:25 If we live by the Spirit, let's also walk by the Spirit.

5:26 Let's not become conceited, provoking one another, and envying one another.When I prayed to know if the Book of Mormon was true, I felt joy, I felt peace. All through the pages of the book there was goodness and teachings of the like that would lead people to gain the fruits of the spirit.

Also notice how many of the fruits of the Spirit are actions, like exhibiting patience, self-control, gentleness, faithfulness. These are indicators that one is being led by God.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Don't play games..........just answer!

I told you.... 1 at a time. This is my thread and I will answer you in an orderly manner. 1 at a time please, pick a question any question.

 

[Truthspeaker]

History of Beer in Utah

In 1833, Joseph Smith received a "revelation" known as the Word of Wisdom: the famed doctrine that prohibited members of the LDS faith to intake wine, hot drinks, tobacco and— strangely— the flesh of wild animals (which could only consumed in times of winter cold and famine). In Volume 12 of Brigham Young’s Journal of Discourses, Young describes how early church meetings were held at Joseph Smith’s house, the elder converts often chewing and smoking tobacco, occasionally spitting on Smith’s floor. Not pleased with the lingering "cloud of tobacco smoke" that he usually found himself in (coupled with his wife’s complaints of having to clean a tobacco-riddled floor afterwards), caused Smith to make an "inquiry" to the Lord, eventually leading to the Word of Wisdom. Today, Church members adhere to this doctrine quite strictly … but it wasn’t always that way. Back when Salt Lake City was in its infancy, the church and its members proved to be both active and vital in the movement to keep Utah soaked in booze. Economically, it was a great way to attract people to Utah’s ever-growing populace.

A Mormon (one that was oft accused of killing people) started the first Utah brewery. Indeed, the infamous Orrin Porter Rockwell established the Hot Springs Brewery Hotel in 1856 (Valley Tan; November 6, 1858). Rockwell himself was a colorful character: he was the personal bodyguard to both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, and with his Manson-like beard and intense, thunderous eyes, he turned out to be as intimidating as he looked. During a speech given by Vice President Schuyler Colfax in 1869, Porter was noted as to have blurted out "I never killed anyone who didn’t need killing." This certainly makes sense when you take into account the fact that he was arrested for the murders and attempted murders of multiple men,

Though we can only theorize about what motivated Young’s wheelings and dealings , it’s safe to make the assumption that Young – already known as a smart businessman – was in it for the money. The whole point of establishing Utah breweries (and cotton missions and factories) in the first place was to cultivate business and – more importantly – to prevent Utah from wasting money by importing valuable items like beer, whisky and fabrics. Young saw an economic opportunity and immediately seized it, even though he never drank the stuff. So, in an unofficial sense, the Church controlled all of the liquor in Utah; an 1874 edition of The Gazetteer of Utah even has a listing for the Salt Lake City Brewery being housed in Salt Lake’s Tenth Ward! Yet beer and whisky weren’t the only dealings that the Church had with "spirituous liquors". It wasn’t very long until the Valley was swarming with beer and wine. There was so much, in fact, that some Mormons actually began paying their tithing in wine (a report from the St. George Tithing Office [later republished Leonard J. Arrington’s 1966 book Desert Saints] showed that the office had collected more than 7000 gallons of wine by early 1887). Everyone had their own idea of how much wine constituted a full tithing payment, eventually leading a Church tithing-clerk to issue instructions on how to standardize the wine/tithing process in a letter dated September 20, 1879.

The fact of the matter is, however, that the abundance of Utah breweries were gradually leading to frequent displays of public drunkenness, and soon the Church was growing worried about the affect that mass public intoxication was having on its image. According to Jerald & Sandra Tanner’s 1979 book, The Changing World of Mormonism, it wasn’t until 1887 that the church stopped making its own wine, soon followed by a greater pressure for people to adhere to the Word of Wisdom, a move, which would no doubt quell the drunkenness among Church members. The Church’s saving grace came in 1919, when Utah ratified the Eighteenth Amendment, putting prohibition into full effect. In 1921, it was Heber J. Grant that ultimately made adherence to the Word of Wisdom a strict requirement to enter the Temple, thus forcing many faithful members to clean up their acts whether they liked it or not.

SLUG Magazine | History of Beer in Utah

So what is your point? Thanks for the history lesson though

 

[Truthspeaker]

Wild Bill Hickman
and the Mormon Frontier

Author HOPE A. HILTON


William Adams ("Wild Bill") Hickman was one of the most notorious outlaws of the nineteenth-century American frontier. As a bodyguard and spy for Mormon church presidents Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, he was popularly known as a "destroying angel." However, a matter of disagreement among historians is whether he acted more often in his church's interest or independently as a true renegade.

Hickman obeyed the Mormon teaching of polygamy and was husband to ten wives and father to thirty-five children. During the Utah War of 1857-58, he rallied with his fellow Mormons and was one of the most effective guerillas in the hit-and-run attacks that wore down the attacking U.S. Army. When he was later arrested and jailed for murdering a government arms dealer during the war, his troubles multiplied when he implicated Brigham Young.

When he died in Wyoming in 1883, his reputation in three states forced many of his relatives to change their name to escape the social stigma of family ties, while the residents of the small town in which he died refused to bury him in the city cemetery. Still, whatever one thinks of his motives or degree of loyalty, Hickman left an indelible impact on the history and myth of the West as a rough, undisciplined frontiersman who nevertheless helped to establish the Rocky Mountain kingdom of Mormons.

William Adams Hickman - A Mormon Bodyguard and Spy - One of the most notorious outlaws of the nineteenth-century American frontier

Ol Billy had a screw loose. So what?

He was the personal hand picked body guard of both Presidents Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.

Hickman is said to have killed some 54 men under direct orders from Brigham Young.

Fine by me. Some people have murderous intentions and I have no problem getting them before they get me. I'd like to see the sources though as to who was killed and why.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Im sure it does. Hell, i'm sure it does wonders for your ego.. if not for the truth.

Sure why not?

Indeed, Jim Jones, why NOT?

Indeed Governor Boggs why Not?

 

[Truthspeaker]

dude. come the fuck on. I'm not interested in making excuses for the isnight on racism found at niggermania dot com. If you can't find a source that is NOT a bunch of mormons jacking off over mormon beliefs then perhaps you should reconsider why your quiver is empty in this thread.

You are such a retard. Read the source then come back at me with problems you have with the article. Show me what problem you have. Get rid of your ridiculous little smoke screen and speak english rather than the crap that comes from your mouth.

No, I think i'll go ahead and hold you to the same standard I apply to everyone else. If you can't find an unbiased source then it looks like you fail.. Again.. (I count making silly statements about droves of mormons in missouri despite being a meager 1% of the population)


oh, and I'll use the nomenclature I want. Be glad i'm not treating you like abiker(gay)sailor

If that 1% is 5 million people, it ain't too shabby. By the way you have to prove how my source is unbiased by reading it. See for yourself that it's fair and accurate. If you can't show otherwise.... Then you fail...for the 43rd time. I haven't failed yet.