The Truth about Mormons

[Eightball]

hehehe.. whatever you say, dude.

Mountain Meadows massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whats your point? a bunch of people disobeyed Brigham Young and got excommunicated and some executed for it. Seriously, what does this prove?

Your church history that is very suspect may say that "they" were disobedient to Brigham Young. What does historical records say that aren't from your churchs' source?

What does it prove? A lot! It determines whether Brigham Young, an LDS co-founder/prophet was a false prophet, and also a very evil man.

 

[Shogun]

I would not use a term like EVIL to describe Young OR Missourians. this type of cultural conflict really is no different regardless of who is the killer and who is the killee. One group percieves a threat and reacts violently to another encroaching group. EVIL? no. commonly HUMAN? yes.

 

[catzmeow]

It proves that you people are no more inherently righteous than anyone else. You bitch and cry like a bleeding pussy about your treatment in Missouri after moving here from the east coast.... and then, IRONICALLY, have yourself a nice "kill the settlers" fest by killing your OWN westward moving easterners. And no, we didn't see ANYTHING other than LDS denial from day fucking one until it eventually dawned on you silly bastards that you were wrong. Sure, NOW you admit it.. but it's the immediate denial and eventual admission that is like the calling card of dogma junkies on a self-righteous kick.


so, i'll say it again: IM GLAD YOU MORMON MOTHERFUCKERS WERE KICKED OUT OF THE SHOW ME STATE SO I DONT HAVE TO LIVE AMONGST YOUR LITTLE BASTARDIZED, INBRED, DOGMA JUNKIE CULTURE.

Simply beautiful rant.

 

[Godboy]

God loves Mormons, buddists, agnostics, atheists alike. He desires that they will all come before the cross, and kneel in total surrender to the Lord of Lords, and spill out their guts, in repentance, and call out to Jesus for mercy

This is what i dont get about you religious people. Isnt Jesus above all that petty stuff, and evil in general? Why the fuck does he require you to kneel and beg for mercy before him? Who the fuck are you people worshipping? Sounds like a pompous asshole. Id spit in that fuckers face and kick him in the balls if he tried that nonsense with me.

 

[Truthspeaker]

hehehe.. whatever you say, dude.

Mountain Meadows massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whats your point? a bunch of people disobeyed Brigham Young and got excommunicated and some executed for it. Seriously, what does this prove?

Your church history that is very suspect may say that "they" were disobedient to Brigham Young. What does historical records say that aren't from your churchs' source?

What does it prove? A lot! It determines whether Brigham Young, an LDS co-founder/prophet was a false prophet, and also a very evil man.

The quality of your arguments is very low. Like I said a long time ago in the very first page of the thread. I am not here to change your mind regarding conclusions you have drawn. I think they are premature at best since you haven't read the Book of Mormon all the way through or any of our other standard works. You haven't read Dr. Nibley's "Lehi in the Desert and the World of the Jaredites", nor have you read Anthropologist John L. Sorenson's "An Ancient Setting for The Book of Mormon"; Both which chronicle thousands of archaeological, anthropologic, historical and linguistic evidences. You probably haven't watched every single show on History Channel about ancient Meso American civilization like I have, or poured over every National Geographic Magazine relating to said civlization.

Nonetheless, you are entitled to your conclusions based on the logic in your own mind. All fine and well. What amazes me is that you seem to not want to allow others to come to a different conclusion. As if somehow the matter has been decided. The debate will be eternal and as I said before I know what I know and if you feel the same way, why don't you just stop the attack and engage in your own positive cause. If you know we are so wrong, and we won't change our minds then allow us to be wrong.

I have a different understanding because of the things I have learned spiritually first then supported with secular evidences. I would die before I renounced those beliefs. Christ has made it known to me by the power of the Holy Ghost. No one can take that from me. So why don't we part ways if you don't have any questions for me?
And I might add, if you do have any more legitimate questions, please ask them one at a time so order can be restored here and I can deal with one issue at a time.
Thanks

 

[Shogun]

Christ has made it known to me by the power of the Holy Ghost.


if ONLY you were the first person to have claimed to have a conversation with god. for real, dude.

 

[Shogun]

Christ has made it known to me by the power of the Holy Ghost.


if ONLY you were the first person to have claimed to have a conversation with god. for real, dude.

 

[Truthspeaker]

It proves that you people are no more inherently righteous than anyone else. You bitch and cry like a bleeding pussy about your treatment in Missouri after moving here from the east coast.... and then, IRONICALLY, have yourself a nice "kill the settlers" fest by killing your OWN westward moving easterners. And no, we didn't see ANYTHING other than LDS denial from day fucking one until it eventually dawned on you silly bastards that you were wrong. Sure, NOW you admit it.. but it's the immediate denial and eventual admission that is like the calling card of dogma junkies on a self-righteous kick.


so, i'll say it again: IM GLAD YOU MORMON MOTHERFUCKERS WERE KICKED OUT OF THE SHOW ME STATE SO I DONT HAVE TO LIVE AMONGST YOUR LITTLE BASTARDIZED, INBRED, DOGMA JUNKIE CULTURE.

Simply beautiful rant.

meh!. It's pretty pathetic and highly illogical for anyone to assume that this was the will of the Mormons, even at the time it happened. Brigham Young wept like a child when he learned of the massacre. But you can't show one source where he covered it up. Sure people want to think he did, because they didn't like him for other reasons. It was just a chance to crucify a truly great man.
Why don't you get a look at the unbiased account. See how responsibility was owned by those who did it. Commentary - LDS Newsroom

 

[Truthspeaker]

Christ has made it known to me by the power of the Holy Ghost.


if ONLY you were the first person to have claimed to have a conversation with god. for real, dude.

Then what?

 

[Shogun]

yea dude.. Young sure did cry like a baby! Or, better yet, YOU'd THINK SO just to keep him canonized in your own mind. After all.. nothing says WEEPED FOR THE DEAD quite like denying it for years.


and, did you REALLY just talk about an "unbiased" account right before posting a link to.. a mormon source?


come on, dude. I'm starting to feel like Saul here.

 

[Shogun]

Christ has made it known to me by the power of the Holy Ghost.


if ONLY you were the first person to have claimed to have a conversation with god. for real, dude.

Then what?

well, THEN you'd be living in a deeper fantasy world than you already do. You are not the first person to claim to have gods email address in your head. From stone age mythology to new age alien crap there is nothing rare about someone who claims to have personal enlightenment from a higher power.

 

[Truthspeaker]

yea dude.. Young sure did cry like a baby! Or, better yet, YOU'd THINK SO just to keep him canonized in your own mind. After all.. nothing says WEEPED FOR THE DEAD quite like denying it for years.


and, did you REALLY just talk about an "unbiased" account right before posting a link to.. a mormon source?


come on, dude. I'm starting to feel like Saul here.

I can see you didn't read the source. Just because it's on a mormon site doesn't mean it's biased. You can prejudge it but you really can't say anything till you read it. First rule of debate, know your sources before you spout off.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Christ has made it known to me by the power of the Holy Ghost.


if ONLY you were the first person to have claimed to have a conversation with god. for real, dude.

Then what?

well, THEN you'd be living in a deeper fantasy world than you already do. You are not the first person to claim to have gods email address in your head. From stone age mythology to new age alien crap there is nothing rare about someone who claims to have personal enlightenment from a higher power.

Sounds good to me

 

[Sunni Man]

Wild Bill Hickman
and the Mormon Frontier

Author HOPE A. HILTON


William Adams ("Wild Bill") Hickman was one of the most notorious outlaws of the nineteenth-century American frontier. As a bodyguard and spy for Mormon church presidents Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, he was popularly known as a "destroying angel." However, a matter of disagreement among historians is whether he acted more often in his church's interest or independently as a true renegade.

Hickman obeyed the Mormon teaching of polygamy and was husband to ten wives and father to thirty-five children. During the Utah War of 1857-58, he rallied with his fellow Mormons and was one of the most effective guerillas in the hit-and-run attacks that wore down the attacking U.S. Army. When he was later arrested and jailed for murdering a government arms dealer during the war, his troubles multiplied when he implicated Brigham Young.

When he died in Wyoming in 1883, his reputation in three states forced many of his relatives to change their name to escape the social stigma of family ties, while the residents of the small town in which he died refused to bury him in the city cemetery. Still, whatever one thinks of his motives or degree of loyalty, Hickman left an indelible impact on the history and myth of the West as a rough, undisciplined frontiersman who nevertheless helped to establish the Rocky Mountain kingdom of Mormons.

William Adams Hickman - A Mormon Bodyguard and Spy - One of the most notorious outlaws of the nineteenth-century American frontier

 

[Shogun]

Then what?

well, THEN you'd be living in a deeper fantasy world than you already do. You are not the first person to claim to have gods email address in your head. From stone age mythology to new age alien crap there is nothing rare about someone who claims to have personal enlightenment from a higher power.

Sounds good to me

Im sure it does. Hell, i'm sure it does wonders for your ego.. if not for the truth.

 

[catzmeow]

meh!. It's pretty pathetic and highly illogical for anyone to assume that this was the will of the Mormons, even at the time it happened. Brigham Young wept like a child when he learned of the massacre.

I've actually been to this area where the massacre occurred. Have you?

 

[catzmeow]

yea dude.. Young sure did cry like a baby! Or, better yet, YOU'd THINK SO just to keep him canonized in your own mind. After all.. nothing says WEEPED FOR THE DEAD quite like denying it for years.


and, did you REALLY just talk about an "unbiased" account right before posting a link to.. a mormon source?


come on, dude. I'm starting to feel like Saul here.

It's pretty funny what an orthodox LDS believer thinks is an "unbiased" source, innit?

 

[Shogun]

yea dude.. Young sure did cry like a baby! Or, better yet, YOU'd THINK SO just to keep him canonized in your own mind. After all.. nothing says WEEPED FOR THE DEAD quite like denying it for years.


and, did you REALLY just talk about an "unbiased" account right before posting a link to.. a mormon source?


come on, dude. I'm starting to feel like Saul here.

I can see you didn't read the source. Just because it's on a mormon site doesn't mean it's biased. You can prejudge it but you really can't say anything till you read it. First rule of debate, know your sources before you spout off.

dude. come the fuck on. I'm not interested in making excuses for the isnight on racism found at niggermania dot com. If you can't find a source that is NOT a bunch of mormons jacking off over mormon beliefs then perhaps you should reconsider why your quiver is empty in this thread.

 

[Eightball]

Whats your point? a bunch of people disobeyed Brigham Young and got excommunicated and some executed for it. Seriously, what does this prove?

Your church history that is very suspect may say that "they" were disobedient to Brigham Young. What does historical records say that aren't from your churchs' source?

What does it prove? A lot! It determines whether Brigham Young, an LDS co-founder/prophet was a false prophet, and also a very evil man.

The quality of your arguments is very low. Like I said a long time ago in the very first page of the thread. I am not here to change your mind regarding conclusions you have drawn. I think they are premature at best since you haven't read the Book of Mormon all the way through or any of our other standard works. You haven't read Dr. Nibley's "Lehi in the Desert and the World of the Jaredites", nor have you read Anthropologist John L. Sorenson's "An Ancient Setting for The Book of Mormon"; Both which chronicle thousands of archaeological, anthropologic, historical and linguistic evidences. You probably haven't watched every single show on History Channel about ancient Meso American civilization like I have, or poured over every National Geographic Magazine relating to said civlization.

Nonetheless, you are entitled to your conclusions based on the logic in your own mind. All fine and well. What amazes me is that you seem to not want to allow others to come to a different conclusion. As if somehow the matter has been decided. The debate will be eternal and as I said before I know what I know and if you feel the same way, why don't you just stop the attack and engage in your own positive cause. If you know we are so wrong, and we won't change our minds then allow us to be wrong.

I have a different understanding because of the things I have learned spiritually first then supported with secular evidences. I would die before I renounced those beliefs. Christ has made it known to me by the power of the Holy Ghost. No one can take that from me. So why don't we part ways if you don't have any questions for me?
And I might add, if you do have any more legitimate questions, please ask them one at a time so order can be restored here and I can deal with one issue at a time.
Thanks

I've asked a myriad of questions, and you've answered them.........by divine revelations?

You see, Truthspeaker, your whole doctrine or where your coming from doesn't allow for logical, or objective debate/discussion.

J.S. Jr. or Brigham Y. said it or one of your President/Prophets, and thats the end of it. You totally ignore one big old LDS filled warehouse of legitimate questions.

The Massacre at Mountain meadows got the "green light" from your higher-ups in the church at the time.

Here's a question? Why did President Theodore Roosevelt demand that the American flag be taken down from the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake? There was something very unAmerican going on in Salt Lake..............and it centered around your church..........?

Here's another? How can you baptize people who are dead, when the Lord's baptism with water representing the co-death, co-burial, and co-ressurrection of the living or alive at the time, true, saved Christian believer in Christ?

Your church has taken Paul's mention of the baptism of the dead totally out of context. Christian theologians to a person agree that Paul wasn't referring to proxy baptisms of dead people by baptizing live people in their name. Again, a very weird, and bazaar thing.

How about magic underware with it's little occult symbols: What does that have to do with Christianity?

Why can't non-Mormons attend their Mormon friend's wedding in the temple?

Biblical Christians welcome anyone of any faith or non-faith to come and celebrate with the bride and grooms nuptials in a church, or anywhere.

Where does the bible say that marriage will continue in heaven? The bible does however say that the relationships between believers in heaven will be greater than any earthly bonds..........We will know our believer wives in an even stronger bond of love than we can experience here on earth. Christ will be the center and the Light of heaven. All will focus on God, and Christ, and will not be spending their time having sex with multiple wives........a most base, and earthy, manmade, convolution.

Where does the bible talk about celestial sexual intercourse, or spirit babies?

You want questions. I bet you have to go back to sources other than the bible?

 

[Truthspeaker]

Wild Bill Hickman
and the Mormon Frontier

Author HOPE A. HILTON


William Adams ("Wild Bill") Hickman was one of the most notorious outlaws of the nineteenth-century American frontier. As a bodyguard and spy for Mormon church presidents Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, he was popularly known as a "destroying angel." However, a matter of disagreement among historians is whether he acted more often in his church's interest or independently as a true renegade.

Hickman obeyed the Mormon teaching of polygamy and was husband to ten wives and father to thirty-five children. During the Utah War of 1857-58, he rallied with his fellow Mormons and was one of the most effective guerillas in the hit-and-run attacks that wore down the attacking U.S. Army. When he was later arrested and jailed for murdering a government arms dealer during the war, his troubles multiplied when he implicated Brigham Young.

When he died in Wyoming in 1883, his reputation in three states forced many of his relatives to change their name to escape the social stigma of family ties, while the residents of the small town in which he died refused to bury him in the city cemetery. Still, whatever one thinks of his motives or degree of loyalty, Hickman left an indelible impact on the history and myth of the West as a rough, undisciplined frontiersman who nevertheless helped to establish the Rocky Mountain kingdom of Mormons.

William Adams Hickman - A Mormon Bodyguard and Spy - One of the most notorious outlaws of the nineteenth-century American frontier

Ol Billy had a screw loose. So what?