The Truth about Mormons

[TofuDog]

So you are satisfied then?

Yes, you've TOTALLY convinced me that mormons are a bunch of retards.

 

[Truthspeaker]

When Talking to a Mormon

Remember that the Mormon is trained to hide the difference between his beliefs and yours and to present himself as a Christian. However, his belief that he is a Christian is sincere, and his efforts to hide the distinctives of the Mormon religion are pursued in his desire to get you to accept Mormon teachings.

Do not allow glib, surface responses to go unchallenged; press the Mormon to define the Christian-sounding words he is using.

Define your own terms also. Draw the contrast for the Mormon. Calmly and clearly insist that what you and he believe about the nature of God, the identity of Jesus, the nature of man, salvation and eternal life are different. To pretend otherwise is dishonest.

Appeal to his honesty and sense of fairness. You might say, "Look, we are not going to get anywhere unless we are honest with each other. Without making any statement about which one of us is right, can't we just acknowledge that we do not worship the same God?" or "Can't we just acknowledge that we do not have the same hope for the future?" Help the Mormon to consider the logical and philosophical problems with the Plan of Eternal Progression.

If God had a Father and He had a Father and so on — then who was the first God? Mormons say it is an "infinite regression". But since there is no way to cross an infinite distance or pass an infinite amount of time, there would be no way to get to "now" and to "us" from an infinite past. Time has to have had a beginning and it did. It began with the creation "of all things seen and unseen" by God. Mormons say that God is omnipotent (almighty, all-powerful), yet they say there are many Gods. There cannot be more than one omnipotent being, so the Mormon conception of God is shrunken and distorted.

A big selling point of the Mormon hope for the future is the idea that families will be together eternally. But if Mormons become Gods of planets and then their children become Gods of other planets — how do the children and parents get together? Can a God leave his planet unattended while he goes to a celestial family reunion? This Mormon selling point would be diminished if we Christians were more vocal about our hope for the "new heavens and new earth" in which we know one another in the all the relationships of our present lives, only in glory (2 Pet. 3.13, Rev. 21.1).

Welcome the participation of Mormons in causes which we share for the common good: strengthening family life, fighting pornography and abortion, fostering the virtue of patriotism. We honor each Mormon as a person who desires what is genuinely good for himself, his family and his society — and when we share the truths of the Christian faith with him.

After that copy and paste job, I have never felt more like a patient in my life. Ha! The original poster says "selling point" probably because we all pay tithing. It's as biblical a concept as any, so if a pretended biblical scholar insists we are selling something he ought to get his facts straight. People attach themselves to our church because they find our teachings believable and fills them with hope for the future. The reason they are so believable is because those who honestly investigate our church without an agenda and already have a firm belief in God and Jesus Christ come to know their maker in a way they never realized possible. Their testimonies of Christ become expanded and they can't get enough.

We also hope for the day when the earth and heavens will be made new. This very earth will become habitable again and be renewed to a celestial body where we can all dwell again. Another one of the many that are already in existence. Even if we are taught by our Father in Heaven and Jesus to become their equals one day(as all good parents want this for their children) supervision of planets will not be a concern. Freedom to go and visit with our families in the eternal worlds is a glorious doctrine. Even if someone else doesn't believe it, they have to admit that it is a heartwarming concept. Such feelings can come from 1 of only 2 sources. God or the Devil. It's up to us to judge for ourselves. that is our decision and right to believe such a thing.

If you are really on a crusade to save us mormons from the fiery pits of hell, then why don't you take the steps to relate with us? Read the doctrines yourself from cover to cover and not splashes of it here and there taken out of all kinds of contexts.

 

[TofuDog]

Ya 8ball, get your facts straight about mormonism. First there's the aliens, then they have super beings who take an alien, convert him to god and give him earth to rule over.
BOOOOUUUAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

 

[spymaster]

I apologize if you've already answered this question (I didn't have time to read all 97 pages) but my best friend is Mormon and I'm trying to understand where she comes from on some of her issues. Do Mormon's believe that God and Lucifer are brothers?

 

[Avatar4321]

When Talking to a Mormon

Remember that the Mormon is trained to hide the difference between his beliefs and yours and to present himself as a Christian. However, his belief that he is a Christian is sincere, and his efforts to hide the distinctives of the Mormon religion are pursued in his desire to get you to accept Mormon teachings.

This is exactly what I've been talking about. You are completely ignoring what we are saying. You arent even trying to dialogue. you are talking to some unknown person and hoping they will simply take your word for it without looking it.

And complain and moan all you want, we are Christians. We aren't the protestant/evangelical Christian you are, and quite frankly we are proud of that. I seriously dont understand how you can possibly evne try to claim that we try to hide our differences when we are out there openly trying to convince people that the Book of Mormon is true and that God continues to reveal His will. Its like you are ignoring anything that doesnt agree with your own view of us.

Do not allow glib, surface responses to go unchallenged; press the Mormon to define the Christian-sounding words he is using.

What the heck is a Christian-sounding word?

Define your own terms also. Draw the contrast for the Mormon. Calmly and clearly insist that what you and he believe about the nature of God, the identity of Jesus, the nature of man, salvation and eternal life are different. To pretend otherwise is dishonest.

And that's the problem, you define your own terms and then wonder why no one agrees.

Appeal to his honesty and sense of fairness. You might say, "Look, we are not going to get anywhere unless we are honest with each other. Without making any statement about which one of us is right, can't we just acknowledge that we do not worship the same God?" or "Can't we just acknowledge that we do not have the same hope for the future?" Help the Mormon to consider the logical and philosophical problems with the Plan of Eternal Progression.

Because, of course, all mormons are necessarily lying. Great way to have a dialogue, call the other person a liar and refuse to interact. Real mature and honest.

As for your ridiculous questions, I dont know what God you worship, I don't know what hope you have. But I can promise you that I worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And have hope through the Atonement of Jesus Christ who the Prophets and Apostles testify. If you worship another, that's your right. But Id appreciate it if you don't try to tell me who I worship. I am the supreme authority on who I worship.

If God had a Father and He had a Father and so on — then who was the first God? Mormons say it is an "infinite regression". But since there is no way to cross an infinite distance or pass an infinite amount of time, there would be no way to get to "now" and to "us" from an infinite past. Time has to have had a beginning and it did. It began with the creation "of all things seen and unseen" by God. Mormons say that God is omnipotent (almighty, all-powerful), yet they say there are many Gods. There cannot be more than one omnipotent being, so the Mormon conception of God is shrunken and distorted.

If it has a beginning, it has an end. The Apostles taught that Eye has not seen nor ear heard what God has for those who love Him.

Life did not begin with birth, and will not end with this. I know this through revelation. You're conclusions are not based on any scriptures. They are based on your understanding of the scriptures. Which is fine, you have the right to believe whatever you want. But please dont pretend that your reasoning can hold up with Divine revelation. Nor that just because you interpret something one way, that there arent other equally valid interpretations.

The scriptures are clear that those who recieve the word are gods. That we become joint-heirs with Jesus Christ and recieve everything the Father has. You can deny this all you want, but it's in the Bible you claim to believe.

A big selling point of the Mormon hope for the future is the idea that families will be together eternally. But if Mormons become Gods of planets and then their children become Gods of other planets — how do the children and parents get together? Can a God leave his planet unattended while he goes to a celestial family reunion? This Mormon selling point would be diminished if we Christians were more vocal about our hope for the "new heavens and new earth" in which we know one another in the all the relationships of our present lives, only in glory (2 Pet. 3.13, Rev. 21.1).

Families can be together Eternally. Simply because you are unable to concieve of it, doesnt mean it can't happen. What God has joined together, let no man split asunder. When God joins people, its not till death do you part, but forever.

And while it doesnt really matter what you say you believe in, let's be honest. Those scriptures dont support a single thing you said.

Welcome the participation of Mormons in causes which we share for the common good: strengthening family life, fighting pornography and abortion, fostering the virtue of patriotism. We honor each Mormon as a person who desires what is genuinely good for himself, his family and his society — and when we share the truths of the Christian faith with him.

Thank you once again for the condescension.

 

[Avatar4321]

I apologize if you've already answered this question (I didn't have time to read all 97 pages) but my best friend is Mormon and I'm trying to understand where she comes from on some of her issues. Do Mormon's believe that God and Lucifer are brothers?

No

 

[morpheus]

My 2 cents:

Mormons are often times not considered Christians because Mormon theology and teaching has departed significantly from Christian scripture. There's a recognized level of denominational differences, and then there's the perception of an entirely new religion. The relationship that LDS has to Christianity can be compared to the relationship between Christianity and Judaism: a parent religion and a descendant religion, as opposed to LDS being a mere sect of the same religion as Protestantism and Catholicism. A key factor is recognition from other Christian bodies, which the LDS Church does not have. For example, the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Evangelical Lutheran, Anglican/Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Methodist, and other mainstream Christian churches all recognize each other as Christian sects despite sectarian differences, and recognize each other's baptisms as legitimate Christian baptisms. Of course, this is also the product of the 20th century Ecumenical movement (Christian reconciliation), but Mormons have departed too much from Christian scripture (Old and New Testament) to gain recognition, while all the other sects have the same scriptures with very minor version differences. It's from this perspective that the LDS Church is not considered a Christian sect, but a separate religion. But, if by "Christian" we're talking about followers/worshippers of Jesus Christ, then it can be argued that Mormons are indeed Christians.

 

[JW Frogen]

Mormans must have true faith in God, afterall who would endure the lamentations of more than one wife?

 

[Eightball]

I apologize if you've already answered this question (I didn't have time to read all 97 pages) but my best friend is Mormon and I'm trying to understand where she comes from on some of her issues. Do Mormon's believe that God and Lucifer are brothers?

No

The true answer is a resounding "YES", not "No".

Either you aren't aware of the teaching/doctrines of your own religion or you aren't willing to admit that Lucifer and Jesus are taught to be brothers before Jesus' incarnation. Lucifer became bad, as he was jealous of Jesus being picked to be the savior and not him.

Joseph Fielding Smith Jr.,the LDS prophet, wrote in his work, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.2, Pg.218 -Pg.219

"We learn from the scriptures that Lucifer -- once a son of the morning, who exercised authority in the presence of God before the foundations of this earth were laid -- rebelled against the plan of salvation and against Jesus Christ who was chosen to be the Savior of the world and who is spoken of as the 'Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.'"

In the Discourses of Brigham Young, on Pg.53-54 he lets it be known that Lucifer is the second son, the one known as "Son of the Morning."

"Who will redeem the earth, who will go forth and make the sacrifice for the earth and all things it contains?" The Eldest Son said: "Here am I"; and then he added, "Send me." But the second one, which was "Lucifer, Son of the Morning," said, "Lord, here am I, send me, I will redeem every son and daughter of Adam and Eve that lives on the earth, or that ever goes on the earth."

 

[Avatar4321]

The true answer is a resounding "YES", not "No".

Either you aren't aware of the teaching/doctrines of your own religion or you aren't willing to admit that Lucifer and Jesus are taught to be brothers before Jesus' incarnation. Lucifer became bad, as he was jealous of Jesus being picked to be the savior and not him.

My answer was correct. We were talking about God the Father. The devil is not the Father's brother. The quotes you cited prove that.

However, I cant help but notice you've finally admitted that we don't deny the Divinity of Christ. It's a nice change for once to see you not trying to lie about that.

 

[Truthspeaker]

My 2 cents:

Mormons are often times not considered Christians because Mormon theology and teaching has departed significantly from Christian scripture. There's a recognized level of denominational differences, and then there's the perception of an entirely new religion. The relationship that LDS has to Christianity can be compared to the relationship between Christianity and Judaism: a parent religion and a descendant religion, as opposed to LDS being a mere sect of the same religion as Protestantism and Catholicism. A key factor is recognition from other Christian bodies, which the LDS Church does not have. For example, the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Evangelical Lutheran, Anglican/Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Methodist, and other mainstream Christian churches all recognize each other as Christian sects despite sectarian differences, and recognize each other's baptisms as legitimate Christian baptisms. Of course, this is also the product of the 20th century Ecumenical movement (Christian reconciliation), but Mormons have departed too much from Christian scripture (Old and New Testament) to gain recognition, while all the other sects have the same scriptures with very minor version differences. It's from this perspective that the LDS Church is not considered a Christian sect, but a separate religion. But, if by "Christian" we're talking about followers/worshippers of Jesus Christ, then it can be argued that Mormons are indeed Christians.

Sometimes I just don't get why people don't consider us "Christians". If, in order to be a Christian you must accept the creeds of Roman Catholicism and it's offshoots, then judging by those standards we are not "Christian".
The dictionary describes Christian the best.

Christian: a person who adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth and claimed by Christians to have been prophesied in the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament.

Although one could argue that we are not monotheistic because we believe that the Godhead is made of three Gods who are separate individuals. But our doctrines are truly centered on Christ and his ability to save us.

Also to say that we have strayed from the Bible is pretty laughable. We quote the Bible every sunday and almost all of our doctrines have biblical roots and scriptures to back them up. Some may say we have strayed from the Bible, but that is only their opinion. We claim to adhere to it, as far as it is translated correctly.

 

[Truthspeaker]

It's easy to confuse the name "God" because sometimes people don't know if Jesus or his father is being referred to. Lucifer was a brother who fell out of grace for fighting against the plan of God and Jesus. We are all brothers with Christ and Lucifer in the same sense. So what is the big deal? Just because you have bad relatives doesn't mean anything about you personally. People really need to get over themselves.

 

[We Are They]

Hey Truthspeaker, do you guys REALLY believe that your god is an alien from another planet? Or you just pulling our legs?

 

[morpheus]

The dictionary describes Christian the best.

Christian: a person who adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth and claimed by Christians to have been prophesied in the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament.

Although one could argue that we are not monotheistic because we believe that the Godhead is made of three Gods who are separate individuals. But our doctrines are truly centered on Christ and his ability to save us.

Also to say that we have strayed from the Bible is pretty laughable. We quote the Bible every sunday and almost all of our doctrines have biblical roots and scriptures to back them up. Some may say we have strayed from the Bible, but that is only their opinion. We claim to adhere to it, as far as it is translated correctly.

Well, the main point of contention is that the LDS denominations do not rely entirely on the Bible (Old and New Testaments). Rather, they hold the Bible as a mistranslation to be taken with a grain of salt, and to be understood only in conjunction with supplemental scriptures: the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price. This would sort of be like Christians and Muslims calling themselves "Jewish", because they share the Torah (or Old Testament), despite the fact that Jews do not adhere to the New Testament or Koran. Islam and Christianity have a significant theological narrative that continues where the Torah left off, and likewise, the LDS churches have a very significant narrative that continues were the New Testament leaves off. So while LDS shares some scriptures with Christianity, LDS also has major supplemental scriptures not shared with other Christian denominations -or maistream Christianity- and a narrative that departs significantly from the Christian one: like, for example, the Mormon belief that the Amerindians are descendants of ancient Hebrews that crossed the Atlantic, and Joseph Smith Jr being one of the most significant prophets like Moses. So from this perspective, LDS can be regarded as a separate religion from Christianity.

 

[Avatar4321]

Well, the main point of contention is that the LDS denominations do not rely entirely on the Bible (Old and New Testaments).

That's accurate. We rely entirely on Christ and His Holy Spirit. Not our own private interpretations of a book of scriptures that does not require anyone to rely entirely on it.

Rather, they hold the Bible as a mistranslation to be taken with a grain of salt, and to be understood only in conjunction with supplemental scriptures: the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price.

Completely false. We believe the Bible to be the Word of God on equal value as every other revelation God has revealed. We simply do not pretend we can tell God that He cant say anything else or reveal anything else.

This would sort of be like Christians and Muslims calling themselves "Jewish", because they share the Torah (or Old Testament), despite the fact that Jews do not adhere to the New Testament or Koran.

Hardly. There are accepted definitions for all of the above. A Christian can be Jewish. A Muslim can be Jewish.

A Christian is a disciple of Jesus Christ. By definition all Mormons would qualify as Christians because we believe in and follow the Lord Jesus Christ who is our Savior.

Now if you want to try to narrowly restrict the definition, that's your perogative. but you dont get to change definitions for everyone else simply because you want to exclude someone.

Islam and Christianity have a significant theological narrative that continues where the Torah left off, and likewise, the LDS churches have a very significant narrative that continues were the New Testament leaves off. So while LDS shares some scriptures with Christianity, LDS also has major supplemental scriptures not shared with other Christian denominations -or maistream Christianity- and a narrative that departs significantly from the Christian one:

Is it really our fault that most of Christianity ignores the clear and unmistakeable doctrine of continued revelation found in the Bible? Are you seriously suggesting that our faith in Jesus Christ is somehow invalid because we choose to believe He continues to speak with man?

like, for example, the Mormon belief that the Amerindians are descendants of ancient Hebrews that crossed the Atlantic, and Joseph Smith Jr being one of the most significant prophets like Moses. So from this perspective, LDS can be regarded as a separate religion from Christianity.

From that perspective, you are completely ignoring the definition of what a Christian is for your own exclusionary purposes. There is nothing in the definition that suggests you have to accept the Bible alone in order to be a Christian. In fact, if we accepted such an absurd assumption then there would have been no Christians before the 16th century. We must decisively exclude the writings of Peter, Paul, John etc, as non Christians because they had the audacity to accept revelation from the Holy Spirit and claim to follow Christ.

Quite frankly, Im not prepared to throw the Apostles under the bus to give Protestant Christianity exclusive power to determine who is Christian or not.

 

[Eightball]

That's accurate. We rely entirely on Christ and His Holy Spirit. Not our own private interpretations of a book of scriptures that does not require anyone to rely entirely on it.

That's where you violate biblical scripture.

Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

By claiming you rely on Christ, and the H.S. solely, you are opening yourself to being deluded, mislead, etc., by the enemy of all Christians, namely Lucifer/Satan, and or his demonic host.

How can you Avatar, or Truthspeaker(Such a presumptuous, and prideful user name, by the way, for an alleged Christian; totally lacking in humility, or humbleness, as patterned by our Savior and His disciples and truly H.S. filled followers.) know for sure that your personal revelations are from God, without going to the scriptures as the Bereans did when Paul or anyone came to them to speak, to verify that a received message is of God?

You can't! You, Avatar just revoked or contradicted yourself. You condemn man's personal interpretation, then claim that Christ directly communicates to you by present day revelation, without the need of written revelations passed down through thousands of years.
Your claim of accepting personal revelation directly from Christ/H.S. is open to interpretation, and question as well. You can't get around that. That is why, Paul said, "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.".

 

[Avatar4321]

How can you Avatar, or Truthspeaker(Such a presumptuous, and prideful user name, by the way, for an alleged Christian; totally lacking in humility, or humbleness, as patterned by our Savior and His disciples and truly H.S. filled followers.) know for sure that your personal revelations are from God, without going to the scriptures as the Bereans did when Paul or anyone came to them to speak, to verify that a received message is of God?

There was more to the post, but I think this pretty much sums up your problem. You've never had an exprience with the Holy Spirit. You've never learned anything from God. Because if you had experienced the power of God, if you had heard the Spirit of the Lord, you wouldnt have to ask how you know it's from God. You would be immediately humbled and acknowledge the Glory, power, and love of God that comes with the whispers of the Spirit. They are undeniable.

I know that my revelations are from God the same way Moses did. Experience. Who am I to deny God when He has been so clear? I've seen the darkness and confusion that comes from the Adversary as well.

It's from the Spirit I learned that Jesus is the Christ. I learned the Bible and Book of Mormon were true because of that same Spirit. I learned that Joseph Smith was a Prophets because of the Holy Spirit. You can only learn things of the Spirit from the Spirit.

And that's why you don't know. You are trying to reason it out. At least you have enough faith to accept the Lord even when you don't know, but there is more to the Lord then what we can reason from the scriptures. Youll learn more in 5 mins with the Spirit then by reading the Bible hundreds of times without even if you do figure out some of the basic principles correctly.

 

[Eightball]

How can you Avatar, or Truthspeaker(Such a presumptuous, and prideful user name, by the way, for an alleged Christian; totally lacking in humility, or humbleness, as patterned by our Savior and His disciples and truly H.S. filled followers.) know for sure that your personal revelations are from God, without going to the scriptures as the Bereans did when Paul or anyone came to them to speak, to verify that a received message is of God?

There was more to the post, but I think this pretty much sums up your problem. You've never had an exprience with the Holy Spirit. You've never learned anything from God. Because if you had experienced the power of God, if you had heard the Spirit of the Lord, you wouldnt have to ask how you know it's from God. You would be immediately humbled and acknowledge the Glory, power, and love of God that comes with the whispers of the Spirit. They are undeniable.

I know that my revelations are from God the same way Moses did. Experience. Who am I to deny God when He has been so clear? I've seen the darkness and confusion that comes from the Adversary as well.

It's from the Spirit I learned that Jesus is the Christ. I learned the Bible and Book of Mormon were true because of that same Spirit. I learned that Joseph Smith was a Prophets because of the Holy Spirit. You can only learn things of the Spirit from the Spirit.

And that's why you don't know. You are trying to reason it out. At least you have enough faith to accept the Lord even when you don't know, but there is more to the Lord then what we can reason from the scriptures. Youll learn more in 5 mins with the Spirit then by reading the Bible hundreds of times without even if you do figure out some of the basic principles correctly.

You've walked over the precipice with your Moses parallel. The bible says that no man has ever lived with greater faith or close relationship to God than Moses. Note: I said man-only; as Jesus is man and God, and not a mere man.

Secondly, your statement that you've had/have a relationship with the H.S., and I have not. That is the presumptuous attitude of Mormons. Your fellow members, hang onto the experiential, without worrying one "iota" if it is from God. Obviously, the enemy of God, isn't stupid, nor does he make himself obvious to those in whom he deludes.

If and when, if possible, you ever come to the point of questioning your visions, revelations, dreams, burning bosoms, with total objectivity, which God wants us to exercise at all times, you may, just may be able to see the forest for the trees.

The whole foundations of the LDS church is built upon subjective, experiential personal knowledge/encounters, and the acceptance of a most dubious piece of writing, called the BOM. Also the Journal Of Discourses, and Pearl of Great Price, and other writing of both J.S. Jr., and B.Y., make Scientology seem credible.

Your church meets the complete criteria of a "cult", as it's adherents, don't live by objective truth, but seek the subjective, as dictated by your doctrine.

You just don't understand that the H.S. works quietly, subtely, but with power, in the souls of the "saved", not commonly via visions, dreams, etc., but by urgings within the soul that counter the power of sin that is constantly at work against the true Christian's new nature in Christ.

You get your confirmation from the "feeler"/emotions part of your human makeup, but that is a most unreliable gauge of truth.

If you could just take that leap of faith, and resoundingly leap that canyon of basing your belief system on what pops up in your mind, dreams, and "loud" urgings, and really, I mean really let the bible speak to you, rather than let the bible confirm your hoped-for agenda, you would know what I mean.

The scriptures for thousands of years have been used to promote false belief systems, when it is "used" out of context. The Mormon church has gone one further and minimized the bible's contents, as it pertains to their 1830's era doctrine.

The J.W.'s have used another tact. With their NWT bible they have actually changed key words to minimize/destroy Christ's divinity, and present Him as a mere created being; Archangel Michael. The Mormon church has also followed similar suit, but making up the notion that Christ was once a mere man, and then become "exalted", yet Jesus told the crowd that was about to stone Him that He was the "I AM"(Alpha to Omega; Begining and Last); forever existent!

I understand your spirited defense of your church. It is the whole foundation of your being, but true freedom for you and Truthspeaker will be, hopefully when you are able to surmount that deep denial within your soul, that has been programmed into you by your church. God's Word is like food, but it is food for the soul. When the true Christian reads the bible, the H.S. within, agrees with the scripture, as it is agreeing with Itself, namely God is agreeing with "God Breathed" words, that God-inspired men recorded through the centuries.

You know for a fact that the bible does not speak to you, nor feed you, but you need all the "extra" stuff that you church provides, beside your constant personal revelations direct from God, aside from written scripture.

You walk on very dangerous ground, as again you fullfill the very tenents of cultic belief, but relying on the "subjective" to validate the "objective" part of your being.

God gave us the capacity to "feel" and or have "emotions" to enhance our human experience in the world, and life, but He never wanted us to rely on that part of our humanity to substantiate truth, and falsehood.

Just as our U.S. Constitution is the guide that our Justices are supposed to follow when making decisions, the bible is the ultimate constitution for the Christian.

In a sense the Mormon church is following a similar path to those that were or are called "reconstructionists" or believe that the U.S. Constitution is a code word, "Living, Breathing, Document". I.E. the liberals believe that the U.S. Constitution can be redefined to validate their "subjective" based bent on life, culturally, socially in this country. Yet, Justices like Clarence Thomas, abhor that, and see the Constitution as a document that says what it says, clearly, and is not in need of "redefinition".

The LDS church basically is taking the bible, and thousands of years of God's might work in this world, and upon mankind, and "redefining" it to the pleasure of their founder's beliefs.

When God says, that there will be "no other" Gods before Me, that is clearly defined, yet the LDS church says that there was, and still will be many more gods, like Christ, and God the Father. It is a mere act of mankind to reach godhood by obedience to the god before him, so that he/man may perpetuate another godhood.

When one is so caught-up in a cult, they can't see the forest for the trees. That is a fact. Some cults are blatantly strange on the outside, and others hide their strange concocted beliefs with a sugar-coated exterior that seems like the norm.

Even in my own Christian life; years ago, I had to face the fact that I was relying too much on experiential life/feelings to "gauge" my faith or relationship with God. I finally had to face the fact that I was going to live the life existence that needed constant "feeding" of subjective input, in order to substantiate my faith. I was totally going against scripture, and was prepping myself for a really "downer" as a Christian. It was a tough step, but I had to realize that the Christian life was a daily step-by-step process of faith in God's provisions, clearly revealed in the bible.

Yes, I've had my times where I knew that God gave me an urging or a type of communique, because I made sure that it didn't go against His Holy Word, the bible/scriptures.

 

[HUGGY]

How can you Avatar, or Truthspeaker(Such a presumptuous, and prideful user name, by the way, for an alleged Christian; totally lacking in humility, or humbleness, as patterned by our Savior and His disciples and truly H.S. filled followers.) know for sure that your personal revelations are from God, without going to the scriptures as the Bereans did when Paul or anyone came to them to speak, to verify that a received message is of God?

There was more to the post, but I think this pretty much sums up your problem. You've never had an exprience with the Holy Spirit. You've never learned anything from God. Because if you had experienced the power of God, if you had heard the Spirit of the Lord, you wouldnt have to ask how you know it's from God. You would be immediately humbled and acknowledge the Glory, power, and love of God that comes with the whispers of the Spirit. They are undeniable.

I know that my revelations are from God the same way Moses did. Experience. Who am I to deny God when He has been so clear? I've seen the darkness and confusion that comes from the Adversary as well.

It's from the Spirit I learned that Jesus is the Christ. I learned the Bible and Book of Mormon were true because of that same Spirit. I learned that Joseph Smith was a Prophets because of the Holy Spirit. You can only learn things of the Spirit from the Spirit.

And that's why you don't know. You are trying to reason it out. At least you have enough faith to accept the Lord even when you don't know, but there is more to the Lord then what we can reason from the scriptures. Youll learn more in 5 mins with the Spirit then by reading the Bible hundreds of times without even if you do figure out some of the basic principles correctly.

You've never had an exprience with the Holy Spirit. You've never learned anything from God. Because if you had experienced the power of God, if you had heard the Spirit of the Lord, you wouldnt have to ask how you know it's from God. You would be immediately humbled and acknowledge the Glory, power, and love of God that comes with the whispers of the Spirit. They are undeniable.


The good news is that you are not any crazier than Ted Bundy or the Son of Sam.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Hey Truthspeaker, do you guys REALLY believe that your god is an alien from another planet? Or you just pulling our legs?

No