The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[JBeukema]

Our founding fathers supported freedom of religion and freedom

Exactly. And to safeguard it, they formed a secular system

 

[JBeukema]

And it's typical of fascism that you pretend I'm doing something I'm not. You claim that defending freedom of speech and freedom of religion is "theocracy" and should be stopped. It's reminiscent of claiming that Jews wanted to kill German babies and take money. A means to an end. And the end is to eradicate religious freedom, freedom of speech, and establish fascism.

We'll add that to the list of your gems.

 

[AllieBaba]

Puke, when we want your opinion, we'll tell it to you.

Until then, please refrain from inane chatter.

 

[JBeukema]

How many threads have you made a fool of yourself in today? Three?

Don't you get tired of playing the role if the court buffoon?

 

[Christopher]

"I would like for people to accept that Christianity played a significant role in the founding of America, by at least reading through the evidence contained in the books I provided. "

well

our founding fathers accept slavery

Where is your proof that all the founders accepted slavery? I think many of them understood that freeing the slaves was not an overnight process. They were smart about it. What you are suggesting is similar to someone saying that Obama does not think we should have a universal health care system because he has not implemented it yet. Obama is smart enough to know that is not going to happen overnight either. Oliver Ellsworth wrote:

All good men wish the entire abolition of slavery, as soon as it can take place with safety to the public, and for the lasting good of the present wretched race of slaves. The only possible step that could be taken towards it by the convention was to fix a period after which they should not be imported. [The Landholder, December 10, 1787]

They had to have a period where slaves were stopped from being imported. Henry Laurens said:

I abhor slavery. I was born in a country where slavery had been established by British Kings and Parliaments as well as by the laws of the country ages before my existence. . . . In former days there was no combating the prejudices of men supported by interest; the day, I hope, is approaching when, from principles of gratitude as well as justice, every man will strive to be foremost in showing his readiness to comply with the Golden Rule. [Frank Moore, Materials for History Printed From Original Manuscripts, the Correspondence of Henry Laurens of South Carolina (New York: Zenger Club, 1861), p. 20, to John Laurens on August 14, 1776.]

Many of the founders gave slaves their freedom once America was distanced from Great Britain. There are many other quotes I could provide which show they were against slavery.

Keep in mind the founding fathers did not establish slavery. They had many obstacles to actually implement the words “all men are created equal”. John Jay said this:

Prior to the great Revolution, the great majority . . . of our people had been so long accustomed to the practice and convenience of having slaves that very few among them even doubted the propriety and rectitude of it. [John Jay, The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, editor (New York: G. P. Putnam’s Sons, 1891), Vol. III, p. 342, to the English Anti-Slavery Society in June 1788.]

as does the christan god all through the bible

Again, where is your proof?

and women were 2nd class citizens with fewer rights

Actually, women were, in general, treated with greater respect than they are today. It is no news to me that Christians used the Bible to suppress women. Doing this was not just carried out by only “religious” people, though.

which was also in accordance with the lunacies of the christian god

The lunacy is from those who take everything in the Bible literally and pretend there are no problems with misinterpretations in the Bible. Jefferson and many of the founders understood that man had somewhat corrupted the Bible for their own personal and political gains. The misuse and misinterpretation of scripture to promote one’s agenda/power/etc. has always occurred.

Please provide proof that the Bible says we should treat women as 2nd class citizens.

so
I guess you make a good point

christianity (pro-slavery, anti-women) definitely played a role in the founding of America

As I said, misuse of scripture has always happened. Many of the founders saw this and wanted to return to the basic teachings of Jesus.

You have not provided anything to back up your statements; I ask that you do so.

 

[JBeukema]

Where is your proof that all the founders accepted slavery?

How 'bout the fact that many of them had slaves?

Many of the founders gave slaves their freedom once America was distanced from Great Britain.

And many of the most worshiped didn't even free their own children.

Please provide proof that the Bible says we should treat women as 2nd class citizens.

Let's start with Timothy...

 

[Sky Dancer]

Bod, our founding fathers fought and died so we would have the right to be openly religious.

That was the whole fucking point. How hard is it to understand? When did Americans start thinking freedom of religion means no religion in public places?

"our founding fathers fought and died so we would have the right to be openly religious."

wrong

they fought so we could have the freedom topractice ANY religion or even NO religion

are you saying otherwise?

are you saying American citizens do NOT have the right to not worship YOR god?
are you saying they do not have the right to not worship ANY god?

"That was the whole fucking point. How hard is it to understand? When did Americans start thinking freedom of religion means no religion in public places"

no FORCED religion

you can NOT force people to accept YOUR religion

anything woud make you what we already kow you are

a theocratic facist nincompoop

I don't promote theocracy. You guys are the retards who apparently don't know what the word means.

Our founding fathers supported freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Period. You can play with that all you want, but you're shitting on America when you do it. They believed anyone should be able to openly profess their religion, and should never, EVER be shut down or persecuted because of it. They should never be prevented from seeking office based on their religious beliefs, they should never suffer financially because of it.

People like you and Sky are trying to turn us into exactly the sort of country they tried very, very hard to ensure we would never be. Congratulations, fascist.

You'll note at least I know how to spell fascist.

You calling me a fascist? Why? I point out the founders wrote a secular document so that we could all enjoy religious freedom. Nothing fascist in that. Now there are Christian Domionists who want the US to be a theocracy. We can both agree they are misguided.

 

[Christopher]

How 'bout the fact that many of them had slaves?

Note the word "all" in my question. I judge them based on the actions they took to first form a free nation, then work on slaves' freedom. Their words and actions showed that many of them were against slavery. Had you or I grown up during their time, what would we do?

And many of the most worshiped didn't even free their own children.

"many of the most worshiped"?

Let's start with Timothy...

Yes, I'm aware of this, however, context matters since this was a letter to Timothy. It has already been shown what the context is surrounding this scripture. This book did a good job of researching it:[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Suffer-Not-Woman-Rethinking-Evidence/dp/0801052505]Amazon.com: I Suffer Not a Woman: Rethinking I Timothy 2:11-15 in Light of Ancient Evidence…[/ame]

This person did a good job of summarizing it (a reviewer from the link):

The study this book takes on is one of the most difficult in Scripture regarding gender and one of the most difficult for most churches in general. All of the restrictions placed on women in most Christian churches originate from just two places in the NT: 1 Cor 14:32-35 and 1 Tim 2:11-15. Those two sets of verses have resulted in a theological position over 1900 years that has restricted women to the point that in some "ultra-conservative churches" they cannot even read aloud from the Bible in a class room setting in the presence of men. Understanding the issues and problems along with a basic understanding of Greek word useage, the Roman/Greek customs and laws, and the outside influences on the Christian churches of the 1st Century is an absolute necessity in order to be 1st Century Christians in a 21st Century environment. It is a diffucult undertaking to say the least. The Kroeger's have done an excellent job in this book of researching the background of 1 Tim 2:11-15 and have shown that there are many misconceptions, misunderstandings, and a general lack of knowledge and historical perspective regarding the Greek language of 2000 years ago and how it changed over time, the customs of the Roman empire at the time the Apostle Paul wrote 1 Timothy, the problems that the church in Ephesus was facing with pagan religions and Gnosticism taking hold of the Christians at Ephesus, and why the women were more prone to be misled by Gnostic beliefs and then try to pass on those erroneous beliefs. Those women had to be silenced for a time to prevent the church in Ephesus from falling totally into the Gnostic beliefs that were prevelent in Ephesus at the time.

On edit: in other words, there was a group of women creating dissent in Ephesus and that is who is being referred to in the scripture.

 

[JBeukema]

"many of the most worshiped"?

Statue / monument of George Washington in Washington DC by Sculptor Horatio Greenough

The Apotheosis of Washington - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The depict him becoming a god. Doesn't get much more explicit than that.

Doesn't get too much more explicit than that.

 

[rikules]

"I would like for people to accept that Christianity played a significant role in the founding of America, by at least reading through the evidence contained in the books I provided. "

well

our founding fathers accept slavery

Where is your proof that all the founders accepted slavery? I think many of them understood that freeing the slaves was not an overnight process. They were smart about it. What you are suggesting is similar to someone saying that Obama does not think we should have a universal health care system because he has not implemented it yet. Obama is smart enough to know that is not going to happen overnight either. Oliver Ellsworth wrote:

All good men wish the entire abolition of slavery, as soon as it can take place with safety to the public, and for the lasting good of the present wretched race of slaves. The only possible step that could be taken towards it by the convention was to fix a period after which they should not be imported. [The Landholder, December 10, 1787]

They had to have a period where slaves were stopped from being imported. Henry Laurens said:


Many of the founders gave slaves their freedom once America was distanced from Great Britain. There are many other quotes I could provide which show they were against slavery.

Keep in mind the founding fathers did not establish slavery. They had many obstacles to actually implement the words “all men are created equal”. John Jay said this:




Again, where is your proof?



Actually, women were, in general, treated with greater respect than they are today. It is no news to me that Christians used the Bible to suppress women. Doing this was not just carried out by only “religious” people, though.

which was also in accordance with the lunacies of the christian god

The lunacy is from those who take everything in the Bible literally and pretend there are no problems with misinterpretations in the Bible. Jefferson and many of the founders understood that man had somewhat corrupted the Bible for their own personal and political gains. The misuse and misinterpretation of scripture to promote one’s agenda/power/etc. has always occurred.

Please provide proof that the Bible says we should treat women as 2nd class citizens.

so
I guess you make a good point

christianity (pro-slavery, anti-women) definitely played a role in the founding of America

As I said, misuse of scripture has always happened. Many of the founders saw this and wanted to return to the basic teachings of Jesus.

You have not provided anything to back up your statements; I ask that you do so.

oh my god


is EVERY conservative completely ignorant of reality?

is there even 1 conservative that doesn't believe absolute lies and nonsense?

me: "our founding fathers accept slavery"

amazingly stupid and hatefilled conservative:
"Where is your proof that all the founders accepted slavery?


the proof, you amazingly stupid conservative, is in the fact that when our founding fathers created the good old USA slavery EXISTED!

there was NO QUESTION about it.



me again: "as does the christan god all through the bible"

moronicon response: "Again, where is your proof?"

leviticus:

thou can have slaves
thou can beat thy slaves almost to death
thou can sell thy daughter into slavery
thou can have sex with thy slaves


it's in leviticus.

what I want to know is; how can you believe so strongly in a bible when you don't even know what is in it?

"The lunacy is from those who take everything in the Bible literally and pretend there are no problems with misinterpretations in the Bible. "

interesting point

makes me wonder

have we misinterpreted gods stance on sex outside of marriage?
have we misinterpreted gods stance on homosexuals?

 

[Christopher]

"many of the most worshiped"?

Statue / monument of George Washington in Washington DC by Sculptor Horatio Greenough

The Apotheosis of Washington - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The depict him becoming a god. Doesn't get much more explicit than that.

Doesn't get too much more explicit than that.

I get what you were saying now. Yes, that is over the top. However, here is a great link from a credible site that I think explains why Washington did what he did regarding slavery. In the end, people change their views and he obviously did regarding slavery. He was against it but felt that it would tear a nation apart that he was trying to bring together.
George Washington's Mount Vernon - George Washington and Slavery

George Washington was born into a world in which slavery was accepted. He became a slave owner when his father died in 1743. At the age of eleven, he inherited ten slaves and 500 acres of land. When he began farming Mount Vernon eleven years later, at the age of 22, he had a work force of about 36 slaves. With his marriage to Martha Custis in 1759, 20 of her slaves came to Mount Vernon. After their marriage, Washington purchased even more slaves. The slave population also increased because the slaves were marrying and raising their own families. By 1799, when George Washington died, there were 316 slaves living on the estate.
...
George Washington's attitude toward slavery changed as he grew older. During the Revolution, as he and fellow patriots strove for liberty, Washington became increasingly conscious of the contradiction between this struggle and the system of slavery. By the time of his presidency, he seems to have believed that slavery was wrong and against the principles of the new nation.

As President, Washington did not lead a public fight against slavery, however, because he believed it would tear the new nation apart. Abolition had many opponents, especially in the South. Washington seems to have feared that if he took such a public stand, the southern states would withdraw from the Union (something they would do seventy years later, leading to the Civil War). He had worked too hard to build the country to risk tearing it apart.

Privately, however, Washington could -- and did -- lead by example. In his will, he arranged for all of the slaves he owned to be freed after the death of his wife, Martha. He also left instructions for the continued care and education of some of his former slaves, support and training for all of the children until they came of age, and continuing support for the elderly.

As I said, the focus was on establishing a free nation and making it stable. How could the slaves be completely freed until that was done?

 

[rikules]

Puke, when we want your opinion, we'll tell it to you.

Until then, please refrain from inane chatter.

the other day you said obama should be jailed for his crimes....

you failed,of course, to list any actual crimes...

yet
I have no doubt that you steadfastly believce he should be jailed

so
I ask
should I be jailed?

should ALL liberals be jailed?

how many liberals and democrats do youthink should be jailed?

and
since jailing them costs a lot of money
do you really want to have to pay for their incarceration?

is that fair to you?


wouldn't it be cheaper just to round them all up and deport them?
or just take them out back and shoot them?

1 bullet would cost a lot less than incarcerating them

or flying them to third world countries for deportation...

and
after all
woudn't it be FUN for you to just kill them?

after all
conservative christian repubclian lt gen james mattis said
"it's FUN to kill your enemies"

I imagine you agree with that

 

[Christopher]

"I would like for people to accept that Christianity played a significant role in the founding of America, by at least reading through the evidence contained in the books I provided. "

well

our founding fathers accept slavery

Where is your proof that all the founders accepted slavery? I think many of them understood that freeing the slaves was not an overnight process. They were smart about it. What you are suggesting is similar to someone saying that Obama does not think we should have a universal health care system because he has not implemented it yet. Obama is smart enough to know that is not going to happen overnight either. Oliver Ellsworth wrote:


They had to have a period where slaves were stopped from being imported. Henry Laurens said:


Many of the founders gave slaves their freedom once America was distanced from Great Britain. There are many other quotes I could provide which show they were against slavery.

Keep in mind the founding fathers did not establish slavery. They had many obstacles to actually implement the words “all men are created equal”. John Jay said this:




Again, where is your proof?



Actually, women were, in general, treated with greater respect than they are today. It is no news to me that Christians used the Bible to suppress women. Doing this was not just carried out by only “religious” people, though.



The lunacy is from those who take everything in the Bible literally and pretend there are no problems with misinterpretations in the Bible. Jefferson and many of the founders understood that man had somewhat corrupted the Bible for their own personal and political gains. The misuse and misinterpretation of scripture to promote one’s agenda/power/etc. has always occurred.

Please provide proof that the Bible says we should treat women as 2nd class citizens.

so
I guess you make a good point

christianity (pro-slavery, anti-women) definitely played a role in the founding of America

As I said, misuse of scripture has always happened. Many of the founders saw this and wanted to return to the basic teachings of Jesus.

You have not provided anything to back up your statements; I ask that you do so.

oh my god


is EVERY conservative completely ignorant of reality?

is there even 1 conservative that doesn't believe absolute lies and nonsense?

me: "our founding fathers accept slavery"

amazingly stupid and hatefilled conservative:
"Where is your proof that all the founders accepted slavery?


the proof, you amazingly stupid conservative, is in the fact that when our founding fathers created the good old USA slavery EXISTED!

there was NO QUESTION about it.



me again: "as does the christan god all through the bible"

moronicon response: "Again, where is your proof?"

leviticus:

thou can have slaves
thou can beat thy slaves almost to death
thou can sell thy daughter into slavery
thou can have sex with thy slaves


it's in leviticus.

what I want to know is; how can you believe so strongly in a bible when you don't even know what is in it?

"The lunacy is from those who take everything in the Bible literally and pretend there are no problems with misinterpretations in the Bible. "

interesting point

makes me wonder

have we misinterpreted gods stance on sex outside of marriage?
have we misinterpreted gods stance on homosexuals?

Read through my recent discussion here with Jbeukama. Perhaps then you'll understand my position more fully. Otherwise, you are jumping to conclusions. I try to do research into scripture to find the actual context and meaning. It helps greatly to dispel the incorrect doctrines some have propagated in Christianity.

 

[rikules]

And it's typical of fascism that you pretend I'm doing something I'm not. You claim that defending freedom of speech and freedom of religion is "theocracy" and should be stopped. It's reminiscent of claiming that Jews wanted to kill German babies and take money. A means to an end. And the end is to eradicate religious freedom, freedom of speech, and establish fascism.

"And it's typical of fascism that you pretend I'm doing something I'm not."


well
since you keep claiming we are doing things that we are NOT doing...

you must be a fascist


like the following sentence;

"You claim that defending freedom of speech and freedom of religion is "theocracy" and should be stopped"

no
I never claimed that
NONE fo the sane and rational people on this board have claimed that

we have claimed that your insistance that America IS a christian nation
is tantamount to wanting a theocracy.

and it is.

 

[rikules]

Where is your proof that all the founders accepted slavery? I think many of them understood that freeing the slaves was not an overnight process. They were smart about it. What you are suggesting is similar to someone saying that Obama does not think we should have a universal health care system because he has not implemented it yet. Obama is smart enough to know that is not going to happen overnight either. Oliver Ellsworth wrote:


They had to have a period where slaves were stopped from being imported. Henry Laurens said:


Many of the founders gave slaves their freedom once America was distanced from Great Britain. There are many other quotes I could provide which show they were against slavery.

Keep in mind the founding fathers did not establish slavery. They had many obstacles to actually implement the words “all men are created equal”. John Jay said this:




Again, where is your proof?



Actually, women were, in general, treated with greater respect than they are today. It is no news to me that Christians used the Bible to suppress women. Doing this was not just carried out by only “religious” people, though.



The lunacy is from those who take everything in the Bible literally and pretend there are no problems with misinterpretations in the Bible. Jefferson and many of the founders understood that man had somewhat corrupted the Bible for their own personal and political gains. The misuse and misinterpretation of scripture to promote one’s agenda/power/etc. has always occurred.

Please provide proof that the Bible says we should treat women as 2nd class citizens.



As I said, misuse of scripture has always happened. Many of the founders saw this and wanted to return to the basic teachings of Jesus.

You have not provided anything to back up your statements; I ask that you do so.

oh my god


is EVERY conservative completely ignorant of reality?

is there even 1 conservative that doesn't believe absolute lies and nonsense?

me: "our founding fathers accept slavery"

amazingly stupid and hatefilled conservative:
"Where is your proof that all the founders accepted slavery?


the proof, you amazingly stupid conservative, is in the fact that when our founding fathers created the good old USA slavery EXISTED!

there was NO QUESTION about it.



me again: "as does the christan god all through the bible"

moronicon response: "Again, where is your proof?"

leviticus:

thou can have slaves
thou can beat thy slaves almost to death
thou can sell thy daughter into slavery
thou can have sex with thy slaves


it's in leviticus.

what I want to know is; how can you believe so strongly in a bible when you don't even know what is in it?

"The lunacy is from those who take everything in the Bible literally and pretend there are no problems with misinterpretations in the Bible. "

interesting point

makes me wonder

have we misinterpreted gods stance on sex outside of marriage?
have we misinterpreted gods stance on homosexuals?

Read through my recent discussion here with Jbeukama. Perhaps then you'll understand my position more fully. Otherwise, you are jumping to conclusions.

you wanted evidence that god condoned slavery

I provided it

it's in leviticus

stop denying reality

 

[Sky Dancer]

Where is your proof that all the founders accepted slavery? I think many of them understood that freeing the slaves was not an overnight process. They were smart about it. What you are suggesting is similar to someone saying that Obama does not think we should have a universal health care system because he has not implemented it yet. Obama is smart enough to know that is not going to happen overnight either. Oliver Ellsworth wrote:


They had to have a period where slaves were stopped from being imported. Henry Laurens said:


Many of the founders gave slaves their freedom once America was distanced from Great Britain. There are many other quotes I could provide which show they were against slavery.

Keep in mind the founding fathers did not establish slavery. They had many obstacles to actually implement the words “all men are created equal”. John Jay said this:




Again, where is your proof?



Actually, women were, in general, treated with greater respect than they are today. It is no news to me that Christians used the Bible to suppress women. Doing this was not just carried out by only “religious” people, though.



The lunacy is from those who take everything in the Bible literally and pretend there are no problems with misinterpretations in the Bible. Jefferson and many of the founders understood that man had somewhat corrupted the Bible for their own personal and political gains. The misuse and misinterpretation of scripture to promote one’s agenda/power/etc. has always occurred.

Please provide proof that the Bible says we should treat women as 2nd class citizens.



As I said, misuse of scripture has always happened. Many of the founders saw this and wanted to return to the basic teachings of Jesus.

You have not provided anything to back up your statements; I ask that you do so.

oh my god


is EVERY conservative completely ignorant of reality?

is there even 1 conservative that doesn't believe absolute lies and nonsense?

me: "our founding fathers accept slavery"

amazingly stupid and hatefilled conservative:
"Where is your proof that all the founders accepted slavery?


the proof, you amazingly stupid conservative, is in the fact that when our founding fathers created the good old USA slavery EXISTED!

there was NO QUESTION about it.



me again: "as does the christan god all through the bible"

moronicon response: "Again, where is your proof?"

leviticus:

thou can have slaves
thou can beat thy slaves almost to death
thou can sell thy daughter into slavery
thou can have sex with thy slaves


it's in leviticus.

what I want to know is; how can you believe so strongly in a bible when you don't even know what is in it?

"The lunacy is from those who take everything in the Bible literally and pretend there are no problems with misinterpretations in the Bible. "

interesting point

makes me wonder

have we misinterpreted gods stance on sex outside of marriage?
have we misinterpreted gods stance on homosexuals?

Read through my recent discussion here with Jbeukama. Perhaps then you'll understand my position more fully. Otherwise, you are jumping to conclusions. I try to do research into scripture to find the actual context and meaning. It helps greatly to dispel the incorrect doctrines some have propagated in Christianity.

I respect you for that. What do you think of the dominionists?

 

[bodecea]

"many of the most worshiped"?

Statue / monument of George Washington in Washington DC by Sculptor Horatio Greenough

The Apotheosis of Washington - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The depict him becoming a god. Doesn't get much more explicit than that.

Doesn't get too much more explicit than that.

I get what you were saying now. Yes, that is over the top. However, here is a great link from a credible site that I think explains why Washington did what he did regarding slavery. In the end, people change their views and he obviously did regarding slavery. He was against it but felt that it would tear a nation apart that he was trying to bring together.
George Washington's Mount Vernon - George Washington and Slavery

George Washington was born into a world in which slavery was accepted. He became a slave owner when his father died in 1743. At the age of eleven, he inherited ten slaves and 500 acres of land. When he began farming Mount Vernon eleven years later, at the age of 22, he had a work force of about 36 slaves. With his marriage to Martha Custis in 1759, 20 of her slaves came to Mount Vernon. After their marriage, Washington purchased even more slaves. The slave population also increased because the slaves were marrying and raising their own families. By 1799, when George Washington died, there were 316 slaves living on the estate.
...
George Washington's attitude toward slavery changed as he grew older. During the Revolution, as he and fellow patriots strove for liberty, Washington became increasingly conscious of the contradiction between this struggle and the system of slavery. By the time of his presidency, he seems to have believed that slavery was wrong and against the principles of the new nation.

As President, Washington did not lead a public fight against slavery, however, because he believed it would tear the new nation apart. Abolition had many opponents, especially in the South. Washington seems to have feared that if he took such a public stand, the southern states would withdraw from the Union (something they would do seventy years later, leading to the Civil War). He had worked too hard to build the country to risk tearing it apart.

Privately, however, Washington could -- and did -- lead by example. In his will, he arranged for all of the slaves he owned to be freed after the death of his wife, Martha. He also left instructions for the continued care and education of some of his former slaves, support and training for all of the children until they came of age, and continuing support for the elderly.

As I said, the focus was on establishing a free nation and making it stable. How could the slaves be completely freed until that was done?

By the time of the Constitution, we had been an independent nation for quite a few years....but your excuse for putting off freedom to a few million people is an interesting take on procrastination.

 

[rikules]

No, by law our country should NOT be secular. By law, our country is accepting of ALL religions, and the profession of faith in ANY circle is protected.

Stop trying to dismantle the US. If you want a secular nation, move to China (well, the China of 30 years, before they started to model themselves after us). Or Cuba.

by law?

by law we MUST be religious?

what lunconstitutional aw would that be?


"Stop trying to dismantle the US."

we are not trying to dismantle the US
we are trying to keep lunatics like you from ESTABLISHING LAWS mandating that we MUST adhere to YOUR religious beliefs


" If you want a secular nation, move to China (well, the China of 30 years, before they started to model themselves after us). Or Cuba.[/QUOTE]

nope.
I like it here
where we have the constitutional right to NOT have religion imposed on us

now
if you really want to live in a country that MANDATES religion by LAW then I recommend one of the islamic middle eastern countries

you'd like it

they get to kill people with the wrong opinions

you'd enjoy that

 

[rikules]

Statue / monument of George Washington in Washington DC by Sculptor Horatio Greenough

The Apotheosis of Washington - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The depict him becoming a god. Doesn't get much more explicit than that.

Doesn't get too much more explicit than that.

I get what you were saying now. Yes, that is over the top. However, here is a great link from a credible site that I think explains why Washington did what he did regarding slavery. In the end, people change their views and he obviously did regarding slavery. He was against it but felt that it would tear a nation apart that he was trying to bring together.
George Washington's Mount Vernon - George Washington and Slavery

George Washington was born into a world in which slavery was accepted. He became a slave owner when his father died in 1743. At the age of eleven, he inherited ten slaves and 500 acres of land. When he began farming Mount Vernon eleven years later, at the age of 22, he had a work force of about 36 slaves. With his marriage to Martha Custis in 1759, 20 of her slaves came to Mount Vernon. After their marriage, Washington purchased even more slaves. The slave population also increased because the slaves were marrying and raising their own families. By 1799, when George Washington died, there were 316 slaves living on the estate.
...
George Washington's attitude toward slavery changed as he grew older. During the Revolution, as he and fellow patriots strove for liberty, Washington became increasingly conscious of the contradiction between this struggle and the system of slavery. By the time of his presidency, he seems to have believed that slavery was wrong and against the principles of the new nation.

As President, Washington did not lead a public fight against slavery, however, because he believed it would tear the new nation apart. Abolition had many opponents, especially in the South. Washington seems to have feared that if he took such a public stand, the southern states would withdraw from the Union (something they would do seventy years later, leading to the Civil War). He had worked too hard to build the country to risk tearing it apart.

Privately, however, Washington could -- and did -- lead by example. In his will, he arranged for all of the slaves he owned to be freed after the death of his wife, Martha. He also left instructions for the continued care and education of some of his former slaves, support and training for all of the children until they came of age, and continuing support for the elderly.

As I said, the focus was on establishing a free nation and making it stable. How could the slaves be completely freed until that was done?

By the time of the Constitution, we had been an independent nation for quite a few years....but your excuse for putting off freedom to a few million people is an interesting take on procrastination.

moore conservative irony

imagine telling conservatives that they'll just have to wait awhile for their rights and freedoms.....

 

[JBeukema]

"many of the most worshiped"?

Statue / monument of George Washington in Washington DC by Sculptor Horatio Greenough

The Apotheosis of Washington - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The depict him becoming a god. Doesn't get much more explicit than that.

Doesn't get too much more explicit than that.

I get what you were saying now. Yes, that is over the top. However, here is a great link from a credible site that I think explains why Washington did what he did regarding slavery. In the end, people change their views and he obviously did regarding slavery. He was against it but felt that it would tear a nation apart that he was trying to bring together.
George Washington's Mount Vernon - George Washington and Slavery

George Washington was born into a world in which slavery was accepted. He became a slave owner when his father died in 1743. At the age of eleven, he inherited ten slaves and 500 acres of land. When he began farming Mount Vernon eleven years later, at the age of 22, he had a work force of about 36 slaves. With his marriage to Martha Custis in 1759, 20 of her slaves came to Mount Vernon. After their marriage, Washington purchased even more slaves. The slave population also increased because the slaves were marrying and raising their own families. By 1799, when George Washington died, there were 316 slaves living on the estate.
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George Washington's attitude toward slavery changed as he grew older. During the Revolution, as he and fellow patriots strove for liberty, Washington became increasingly conscious of the contradiction between this struggle and the system of slavery. By the time of his presidency, he seems to have believed that slavery was wrong and against the principles of the new nation.

As President, Washington did not lead a public fight against slavery, however, because he believed it would tear the new nation apart. Abolition had many opponents, especially in the South. Washington seems to have feared that if he took such a public stand, the southern states would withdraw from the Union (something they would do seventy years later, leading to the Civil War). He had worked too hard to build the country to risk tearing it apart.

Privately, however, Washington could -- and did -- lead by example. In his will, he arranged for all of the slaves he owned to be freed after the death of his wife, Martha. He also left instructions for the continued care and education of some of his former slaves, support and training for all of the children until they came of age, and continuing support for the elderly.

As I said, the focus was on establishing a free nation and making it stable. How could the slaves be completely freed until that was done?

How can any nation be a 'free nation' when there are slaves?