The Way Forward: Repeal ObamaCare

[nodoginnafight]

Can't put tootpaste back in the tube. Obamacare is here to stay.

 

[Meister]

You just abdicated with the marxist crap. That better care to the people does not come at the same cost. It is enhanced benefits like dental services, vision care, hearing aids, podiatry, and other supplemental services even some form of gym or health club membership.

yes, because the insurance companies are much more efficient than the govt they can include other health benefits with no increase in cost. medicare advantage is a net zero impact on the medicare budget. But it provides excellent care at a very small premium and the insurance companies still make a small profit, Everyone wins-----so that program must be killed.


and obama is a marxist, have you studied marxism?

Private insurance is not more efficient than Medicare. It's not even close. Do you still believe in the tooth fairy? Looks like you're the marxist...

Read more: Medicare Advantage was to cut Medicare, but cost $283 billion more - UPI.com

Tell all of us just how much debt has been created because of medicare? I'll be waiting for your truthful answer or a lie, you get to choose.

 

[Redfish]

yes, because the insurance companies are much more efficient than the govt they can include other health benefits with no increase in cost. medicare advantage is a net zero impact on the medicare budget. But it provides excellent care at a very small premium and the insurance companies still make a small profit, Everyone wins-----so that program must be killed.


and obama is a marxist, have you studied marxism?

Private insurance is not more efficient than Medicare. It's not even close. Do you still believe in the tooth fairy? Looks like you're the marxist...

Read more: Medicare Advantage was to cut Medicare, but cost $283 billion more - UPI.com

Tell all of us just how much debt has been created because of medicare? I'll be waiting for your truthful answer or a lie, you get to choose.

don't expect an answer, he ran when faced with facts.

 

[LoneLaugher]

No he didn't.

 

[Ropey]

My sister had a business and a sales position in the Silicon Valley. She's had to sell her catering business and simply keep the sales position. She said that it was nearly impossible for her to pay for her family and employees health care. She is covered by her own employers health care.

It's cheaper for her to keep the one position that pays her health care and then concentrate on the family health care which she says has increased by ~20% in the last three years.

Something's not good in that. I can't see how Obamacare could be removed from the system now though. I don't see it happening. Possibly a restructuring if the Republicans can hold a couple of terms with both Congress and some good House terms.

Otherwise, it's looking good for the go which is why President Obama spent so much of his political capital on it.

It's got his name on it and he's said that he likes the name.

 

[LoneLaugher]

My sister had a business and a sales position in the Silicon Valley. She's had to sell her catering business and simply keep the sales position. She said that it was nearly impossible for her to pay for her family and employees health care. She is covered by her own employers health care.

It's cheaper for her to keep the one position that pays her health care and then concentrate on the family health care which she says has increased by ~20% in the last three years.

Something's not good in that. I can't see how Obamacare could be removed from the system now though. I don't see it happening. Possibly a restructuring if the Republicans can hold a couple of terms with both Congress and some good House terms.

Otherwise, it's looking good for the go which is why President Obama spent so much of his political capital on it.

It's got his name on it and he's said that he likes the name.

How many employees did she have?

 

[thereisnospoon]

ObamaCare has to be repealed because shopping for insurance in the new marketplaces is too attractive an option?



You seem to be relying pretty heavily on your imagination to populate this thread.



...tapers to 90% FMAP in perpetuity. The feds never pay less than 90 cents on the dollar for the medical costs of the expansion population--substantially higher than the match rate for traditional Medicaid ever was.

And just WHO do you think funds the federal government.
See, this is the dream world in which you libs exist.."the government will pay for it"..NO!
The money has to come from somewhere. Not one line or calculation of creative math or bureaucratic quadruple speak and out right lies will change the fact that under Obamacare, health insurance costs to the average consumer will rocket into low Earth orbit.

according to libtards the money will come from the evil rich and the evil corporations. What they fail to comprehend is that the money will come from them, because the rich can pay their own medical bills and corporations can headquarter in any country that is smart enough to make it attractive to be there.

Based on voting patterns and the location of most of the wealth in the US, it is apparent that most of the EVIL wealthy ARE liberals.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The one issue the Obama care people like to ignore is these costs are for the Bronze plan. This is basic basic coverage. Essentially, it's not coverage at all.

What costs are for a bronze plan? And why isn't a bronze plan coverage at all?

Not one line or calculation of creative math or bureaucratic quadruple speak and out right lies will change the fact that under Obamacare, health insurance costs to the average consumer will rocket into low Earth orbit.

Insurers' proposed rates for next year have been released in several states. No rate shock (and, in several cases, decreases relative to the costs of comparable plans this year).

medicare advantage is a net zero impact on the medicare budget.

Under the Affordable Care Act, that becomes more or less true. Over the past decade, it absolutely is not true, Medicare Advantage was substantially more expensive than fee-for-service Medicare. Hence the reforms to it.

"What costs are for a bronze plan? And why isn't a bronze plan coverage at all?"
For comparison..The Bronze plan, which most people will enroll because it costs the least, cover 60% of the average person's health insurance cost. The other 40% is out of pocket. The Platinum plan covers 90% with just 10% out of pocket.
Health Insurance 101

 

[francoHFW]

So who pays for poor peoples' and poor workers' health care today, when most have no insurance, and is thus the most expensive kind possible, ER care, no preventive?

 

[ecinicola]

obamacare is going to be a disaster and hurt the economy more and also the quality of healthcare you get. And its not free healthcare....it is going to cost billions and it will come from our tax money. I think someone should do something to get rid of this horrible Obamacare, but I doubt it will. We are facing some rough times due to it and unfotunately our youth is going to find their future in the toilet after this Muslim gets finished with his second term.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Can't put tootpaste back in the tube. Obamacare is here to stay.

Never say "can't"..We can always throw the toothpaste in the trash bin.
As soon as people being to realize how expensive ACA will be. As soon as businesses with more than 50 employees realize the costs and as soon as the REAL cost of ACA is exposed, people will start howling.
Look, it's starting already. States are opting out because they cannot afford ACA and do not wish to dump a bunch of new taxes on their citizens.
Businesses are cutting labor hours so that workers do not accumulate more than the minimum mandated time to be eligible.
Businesses with slightly OVER 50 employees are eliminating jobs to fall slightly UNDER 50 employees. Businesses are cutting wages. Others are already passing along the additional costs to the end user of their products and services.

 

[Ropey]

My sister had a business and a sales position in the Silicon Valley. She's had to sell her catering business and simply keep the sales position. She said that it was nearly impossible for her to pay for her family and employees health care. She is covered by her own employers health care.

It's cheaper for her to keep the one position that pays her health care and then concentrate on the family health care which she says has increased by ~20% in the last three years.

Something's not good in that. I can't see how Obamacare could be removed from the system now though. I don't see it happening. Possibly a restructuring if the Republicans can hold a couple of terms with both Congress and some good House terms.

Otherwise, it's looking good for the go which is why President Obama spent so much of his political capital on it.

It's got his name on it and he's said that he likes the name.

How many employees did she have?

I't wasn't that big so I'd say three carts with two servers and the on call staff. I'm not sure, so I'll ask her next time we speak.

 

[LoneLaugher]

While you're at it, ask her why she is bullshitting you about her health care costs making her close her business.

 

[francoHFW]

A) O-care hasn't STARTED yet.
and B) Romneycare hasn't seen any of these BS horrors, and O-Care is BETTER.

 

[Ropey]

While you're at it, ask her why she is bullshitting you about her health care costs making her close her business.

Ask yourself why you would call something bullshit when I haven't even been able to give you the details?

She closed the business and the increasing health care costs were clearly a contributing factor. There's a lot of factors, the tech industry slowdown, the high price of land and rent that didn't slow down when the slow down occurred.

So, a contributing factor regardless of your fantasy that you know what is going on in her business. You couldn't even wait for an answer in order to say "bullshit".

That says a lot to me.

 

[Greenbeard]

"What costs are for a bronze plan? And why isn't a bronze plan coverage at all?"
For comparison..The Bronze plan, which most people will enroll because it costs the least, cover 60% of the average person's health insurance cost. The other 40% is out of pocket. The Platinum plan covers 90% with just 10% out of pocket.
Health Insurance 101

You've failed to answer the question. More than half of the plans offered in the individual market (i.e. the market the exchanges will reform) today don't offer bronze-level coverage--their actuarial values are below 60%.

More importantly, exchange subsidy values are set by the value of silver plans and cost-sharing subsidies are available only for silver plans (70% actuarial value). Silver plans are clearly meant to be the default, with bronze--i.e. catastrophic--plans available for those who want leaner plans with lower premiums. Even folks who choose bronze plans will still be getting better coverage than most people in the individual market have at present.

So what's the problem? Do you think the floor in exchanges should be set at silver (or, uh, platinum?) and not at bronze?

By the way, the quoted prices are for silver plans, not just bronze. For instance, a middle aged person buying a plan for himself in California next year can expect to buy a silver plan for about $300 a month (or $3,600 per year). And that's before any subsidy he might receive, which obviously will further reduce the amount he spends each month.

 

[Bfgrn]

yes, because the insurance companies are much more efficient than the govt they can include other health benefits with no increase in cost. medicare advantage is a net zero impact on the medicare budget. But it provides excellent care at a very small premium and the insurance companies still make a small profit, Everyone wins-----so that program must be killed.


and obama is a marxist, have you studied marxism?

Private insurance is not more efficient than Medicare. It's not even close. Do you still believe in the tooth fairy? Looks like you're the marxist...

Read more: Medicare Advantage was to cut Medicare, but cost $283 billion more - UPI.com

Tell all of us just how much debt has been created because of medicare? I'll be waiting for your truthful answer or a lie, you get to choose.

The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived and dishonest – but the myth – persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
President John F. Kennedy

Social Security and Medicare have been paying out their benefits from current dedicated payroll taxes and by drawing on the trust funds that had built up because of the years that more was being collected than paid out in benefits.

Get the point? No Social Security and Medicare-hating members of Congress like Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI), will acknowledge the fact that not one dime of the huge US deficit has been caused by a benefit check paid by Social Security, and the only parts of Medicare that are funded by general tax revenues are doctors bills and the prescription drug benefit--Medicare Part D--a lousy measure promoted by President George W. Bush and the Republicans in Congress which bars the government from negotiating discounts from the Pharmaceutical companies--a problem easily fixed by improved legislation.

Medicare is not to blame for national debt
June 08, 2011

Let's take another look at the idea promoted by conservatives that Medicare is responsible for the national debt.

Prescription drugs would have cost a lot less if Congress had been more concerned with minimum expense to Medicare than with maximum profit for drug companies.

Increases in monthly premiums for higher-income beneficiaries are negligible, and their needs are similar to everyone else's. It is possible that healthy lower-income seniors are subsidizing their care.

General fund "subsidies" are actually repayment of loans from the Medicare Trust Fund. The deficit is not caused by Medicare any more than by ordinary Americans cashing in their treasury notes.

Yes, something needs to be done about Medicare funding. But it is deceitful to blame Medicare for our increasing debt. Penalizing seniors to offset tax breaks for wealthy Americans and subsidies for corporations making record profits — and for two elective wars — is both morally and fiscally irresponsible.

 

[LoneLaugher]

While you're at it, ask her why she is bullshitting you about her health care costs making her close her business.

Ask yourself why you would call something bullshit when I haven't even been able to give you the details?

She closed the business and the increasing health care costs were clearly a contributing factor. There's a lot of factors, the tech industry slowdown, the high price of land and rent that didn't slow down when the slow down occurred.

So, a contributing factor regardless of your fantasy that you know what is going on in her business. You couldn't even wait for an answer in order to say "bullshit".

That says a lot to me.

It should say a lot. It says that you should not toss out claims as you did thinking that others will buy them. There is no way that, in 2013, Obamacare forced ANY business to close shop....especially a very small business such as your sister's.

 

[dblack]

Can't put tootpaste back in the tube. Obamacare is here to stay.

Never say "can't"..We can always throw the toothpaste in the trash bin.

I hope you're right. We should try in any case. It could be our last chance to turn away from corporatism.

 

[Mac1958]

I don't like paying higher insurance premiums because other people don't have coverage.

And I don't like paying inflated healthcare prices because you idiots are over insured. Can I pass a law 'addressing' that?

Seriously, is that what government is about to you? A tool to bully your neighbors into conforming to your preferences?

I notice you had to ignore/divert from the rest of my post, which provided specific examples of the flaws of our current five systems. Diversion doesn't work with me, and it tells me that you don't have mature, civil responses for them. I'll be happy to repeat it here:

I don't like paying higher insurance premiums because other people don't have coverage; I don't like sitting in the emergency room with one of my kids for two hours because so many people are using it as their regular doctor; I don't like paying more for goods and services to companies who are economically hamstrung by their health insurance benefit costs; I don't like all of my health care costs increasing because people who don't have access to preventive/diagnostic care are costing far more when their conditions are advanced.

Now, I'd love to know: When you say "I don't like paying inflated healthcare prices because you idiots are over insured", please describe what you mean by "over insured", who "the idiots" are, and how this relates to this conversation.

Thanks.

.