This 6 minute video sums up the shocking facts of American wealth and inequality

[JoeNormal]

Where is this "finite" world of which you speak?

C'mon, now you're just trying to be obtuse.

I wish I had a dollar for every time a someone told me a thing can't be done. Wealth is not a limited resource. There is no such thing as a fixed amount of wealth to go around. It does not work that way. You may not think yourself capable of producing a million in goods but that does not mean everyone is like you.

I think you've spent so much time in the software world, you've forgotten that there are resources that are finite. Energy, water, arable land are the biggies. And that doesn't cover the artificial scarcities like medical care, etc.

So just out of curiosity, how do you think everyone could become a millionaire?

 

[Billy000]

So you're issue is you don't want to talk about solutions, you want to talk about patting everyone on the back for a job well done, no matter what they have done. What you want is platitudes, empty titles, joy, happiness, world peace, an end to world hunger, can't we all just get along,... all that good stuff right?

Yeah that's it. You got me. I don't want to talk about solutions.

Ok here's your solution which I know you will start bitching about. We raise the minimum wage to $9.00 an hour. Will that raise prices? Yes. So be it. Otherwise we will have more and more people relying on the government. That would be worse wouldn't you say?

You are mixing issues and will cause more problems than you solve. You want a raise and you want government to force your employer to give you that raise? I don't know anyone that works for minimum wage, however if you keep raising minimum wage I can say that I would know people who used to work above minimum wage who where demoted from full time pay to part time at the new higher minimum wage because her boss had to give a raise to all his crappy employees and thus had to put everyone that was full time to part time employment with out benefits.

If you want to solve problems you have to think of the repercussions of your changes, and adjust your solution accordingly. Repeating mistakes of the past... well that's just dumb.

I don't understand your logic on this. We have been raising the minimum wage for decades . Why would raising it once more be a complete bust?

 

[Asclepias]

Yeah that's it. You got me. I don't want to talk about solutions.

Ok here's your solution which I know you will start bitching about. We raise the minimum wage to $9.00 an hour. Will that raise prices? Yes. So be it. Otherwise we will have more and more people relying on the government. That would be worse wouldn't you say?

You are mixing issues and will cause more problems than you solve. You want a raise and you want government to force your employer to give you that raise? I don't know anyone that works for minimum wage, however if you keep raising minimum wage I can say that I would know people who used to work above minimum wage who where demoted from full time pay to part time at the new higher minimum wage because her boss had to give a raise to all his crappy employees and thus had to put everyone that was full time to part time employment with out benefits.

If you want to solve problems you have to think of the repercussions of your changes, and adjust your solution accordingly. Repeating mistakes of the past... well that's just dumb.

I don't understand your logic on this. We have been raising the minimum wage for decades . Why would raising it once more be a complete bust?

You said yourself that a raise in the minimum wage would or could result in a raise in prices. To me that amounts to doing something that will have zero effect. Even if it helped the people making the minimum wage how would it fix the disparity between even the middle class and the wealthy?

 

[Billy000]

You are mixing issues and will cause more problems than you solve. You want a raise and you want government to force your employer to give you that raise? I don't know anyone that works for minimum wage, however if you keep raising minimum wage I can say that I would know people who used to work above minimum wage who where demoted from full time pay to part time at the new higher minimum wage because her boss had to give a raise to all his crappy employees and thus had to put everyone that was full time to part time employment with out benefits.

If you want to solve problems you have to think of the repercussions of your changes, and adjust your solution accordingly. Repeating mistakes of the past... well that's just dumb.

I don't understand your logic on this. We have been raising the minimum wage for decades . Why would raising it once more be a complete bust?

You said yourself that a raise in the minimum wage would or could result in a raise in prices. To me that amounts to doing something that will have zero effect. Even if it helped the people making the minimum wage how would it fix the disparity between even the middle class and the wealthy?

Why would it have zero effect? For one thing, big corporations can easily afford a raise in minimum wage. I can't seem them adjusting prices by very much. You are suggesting that the price increase would offset the income increase. What makes you so sure that would be the case? I am not saying it would fix the disparity. I just mean it is a step in the right direction.

 

[peach174]

No that really isn't what he means. He means thinking critically. Finding middle ground in logic. Realizing that just because I do not like the state of the country's wealth inequality, it doesn't mean I am against the concept itself of wealth inequality. It's realizing that no one here is against capitalism.

So you're issue is you don't want to talk about solutions, you want to talk about patting everyone on the back for a job well done, no matter what they have done. What you want is platitudes, empty titles, joy, happiness, world peace, an end to world hunger, can't we all just get along,... all that good stuff right?

Yeah that's it. You got me. I don't want to talk about solutions.

Ok here's your solution which I know you will start bitching about. We raise the minimum wage to $9.00 an hour. Will that raise prices? Yes. So be it. Otherwise we will have more and more people relying on the government. That would be worse wouldn't you say?

So raise the minimum wage. All prices of goods get raised. Then the extra increase in wages goes to pay for the higher prices of goods. They have gained nothing and are still in the same boat.

 

[koshergrl]

Min wage is $8.95 in Oregon.

Have you checked out our economy?

How about our income discrepancy?

 

[Asclepias]

I don't understand your logic on this. We have been raising the minimum wage for decades . Why would raising it once more be a complete bust?

You said yourself that a raise in the minimum wage would or could result in a raise in prices. To me that amounts to doing something that will have zero effect. Even if it helped the people making the minimum wage how would it fix the disparity between even the middle class and the wealthy?

Why would it have zero effect? For one thing, big corporations can easily afford a raise in minimum wage. I can't seem them adjusting prices by very much. You are suggesting that the price increase would offset the income increase. What makes you so sure that would be the case? I am not saying it would fix the disparity. I just mean it is a step in the right direction.

If prices go up along with the minimum wage those minimum wage earners are in the same position. If the corporations and small businesses dont raise prices then it would benefit the minimum wage earners. I agree with that. My problem is since small businesses make up a large portion of employment for minimum wage earners they would be affected more than the corporations. They are less equipped to handle a higher cost of doing business and may close thus putting more people out of work.

 

[Billy000]

So you're issue is you don't want to talk about solutions, you want to talk about patting everyone on the back for a job well done, no matter what they have done. What you want is platitudes, empty titles, joy, happiness, world peace, an end to world hunger, can't we all just get along,... all that good stuff right?

Yeah that's it. You got me. I don't want to talk about solutions.

Ok here's your solution which I know you will start bitching about. We raise the minimum wage to $9.00 an hour. Will that raise prices? Yes. So be it. Otherwise we will have more and more people relying on the government. That would be worse wouldn't you say?

So raise the minimum wage. All prices of goods get raised. Then the extra increase in wages goes to pay for the higher prices of goods. They have gained nothing and are still in the same boat.

Having a few extra dollars per hour would go a long way. Prices would not be so high that they couldn't afford the goods. What makes you so sure they couldn't?

 

[Billy000]

You said yourself that a raise in the minimum wage would or could result in a raise in prices. To me that amounts to doing something that will have zero effect. Even if it helped the people making the minimum wage how would it fix the disparity between even the middle class and the wealthy?

Why would it have zero effect? For one thing, big corporations can easily afford a raise in minimum wage. I can't seem them adjusting prices by very much. You are suggesting that the price increase would offset the income increase. What makes you so sure that would be the case? I am not saying it would fix the disparity. I just mean it is a step in the right direction.

If prices go up along with the minimum wage those minimum wage earners are in the same position. If the corporations and small businesses dont raise prices then it would benefit the minimum wage earners. I agree with that. My problem is since small businesses make up a large portion of employment for minimum wage earners they would be affected more than the corporations. They are less equipped to handle a higher cost of doing business and may close thus putting more people out of work.

Ok answer me this: how did businesses deal with previous minimum wage increases? Why would this raise be any different?

 

[peach174]

I don't understand your logic on this. We have been raising the minimum wage for decades . Why would raising it once more be a complete bust?

You said yourself that a raise in the minimum wage would or could result in a raise in prices. To me that amounts to doing something that will have zero effect. Even if it helped the people making the minimum wage how would it fix the disparity between even the middle class and the wealthy?

Why would it have zero effect? For one thing, big corporations can easily afford a raise in minimum wage. I can't seem them adjusting prices by very much. You are suggesting that the price increase would offset the income increase. What makes you so sure that would be the case? I am not saying it would fix the disparity. I just mean it is a step in the right direction.

The majority of workers in America do not work for big Corporations.
Statistics tell us, and past history tell us that it doesn't work.
And it harms the poor and fixed income groups greatly and causes more government dependency.

 

[Asclepias]

Yeah that's it. You got me. I don't want to talk about solutions.

Ok here's your solution which I know you will start bitching about. We raise the minimum wage to $9.00 an hour. Will that raise prices? Yes. So be it. Otherwise we will have more and more people relying on the government. That would be worse wouldn't you say?

So raise the minimum wage. All prices of goods get raised. Then the extra increase in wages goes to pay for the higher prices of goods. They have gained nothing and are still in the same boat.

Having a few extra dollars per hour would go a long way. Prices would not be so high that they couldn't afford the goods. What makes you so sure they couldn't?

Lets put some numbers to this. I pay my employees say $7 an hour to make my widget. I sell my widget for say $15 after expenses I earn a $2 profit. I raise my minimum wage $2 without raising my prices and I just wiped out my profit. Add to that since more people have disposable income my expenses go up because of the law of supply and demand. I am now operating at a loss out of the goodness of my heart. How long can I keep this up?

 

[Asclepias]

Why would it have zero effect? For one thing, big corporations can easily afford a raise in minimum wage. I can't seem them adjusting prices by very much. You are suggesting that the price increase would offset the income increase. What makes you so sure that would be the case? I am not saying it would fix the disparity. I just mean it is a step in the right direction.

If prices go up along with the minimum wage those minimum wage earners are in the same position. If the corporations and small businesses dont raise prices then it would benefit the minimum wage earners. I agree with that. My problem is since small businesses make up a large portion of employment for minimum wage earners they would be affected more than the corporations. They are less equipped to handle a higher cost of doing business and may close thus putting more people out of work.

Ok answer me this: how did businesses deal with previous minimum wage increases? Why would this raise be any different?

They raised their prices.

 

[peach174]

Why would it have zero effect? For one thing, big corporations can easily afford a raise in minimum wage. I can't seem them adjusting prices by very much. You are suggesting that the price increase would offset the income increase. What makes you so sure that would be the case? I am not saying it would fix the disparity. I just mean it is a step in the right direction.

If prices go up along with the minimum wage those minimum wage earners are in the same position. If the corporations and small businesses dont raise prices then it would benefit the minimum wage earners. I agree with that. My problem is since small businesses make up a large portion of employment for minimum wage earners they would be affected more than the corporations. They are less equipped to handle a higher cost of doing business and may close thus putting more people out of work.

Ok answer me this: how did businesses deal with previous minimum wage increases? Why would this raise be any different?

They didn't have Government taking a large portion of their profits, like is happening now.
The increase in over regulations, costs companies a great deal. Small companies can't do it and end up going out of business.

 

[Billy000]

You said yourself that a raise in the minimum wage would or could result in a raise in prices. To me that amounts to doing something that will have zero effect. Even if it helped the people making the minimum wage how would it fix the disparity between even the middle class and the wealthy?

Why would it have zero effect? For one thing, big corporations can easily afford a raise in minimum wage. I can't seem them adjusting prices by very much. You are suggesting that the price increase would offset the income increase. What makes you so sure that would be the case? I am not saying it would fix the disparity. I just mean it is a step in the right direction.

The majority of workers in America do not work for big Corporations.
Statistics tell us, and past history tell us that it doesn't work.
And it harms the poor and fixed income groups greatly and causes more government dependency.

The majority huh? Can you provide evidence of that?

 

[Vox]

You nor anybody else on this board is going to DO anything about it , don't kid yourself problems don't get solved by talking about them on Internet message boards, it's just entertainment.

well, you make a mistke here. Exposing what "solutions" the left wants ( and billy's of the boards are just parroting the talking points of the left in power) is important - as what they plan to do is dangerous and has been proven wrong in many places around the globe.

Trust me the left wingers on this board barely have the power to wipe their own rear ends let alone have any effect in how societies problems are addressed, they're cheerleaders who will believe whatever their dieties in government tell them to believe, nothing to be frightened of.

I believe you and I know that.
I am talking about something different - bringing their talking points to light and exposing them - for anybody willing to see. No, I am not that naive to think the propagandists will change their mind.
But an open discussion of what is evil about their talking points is beneficial to the general mindset of those who might listen.

 

[JoeNormal]

You said yourself that a raise in the minimum wage would or could result in a raise in prices. To me that amounts to doing something that will have zero effect. Even if it helped the people making the minimum wage how would it fix the disparity between even the middle class and the wealthy?

Why would it have zero effect? For one thing, big corporations can easily afford a raise in minimum wage. I can't seem them adjusting prices by very much. You are suggesting that the price increase would offset the income increase. What makes you so sure that would be the case? I am not saying it would fix the disparity. I just mean it is a step in the right direction.

If prices go up along with the minimum wage those minimum wage earners are in the same position. If the corporations and small businesses dont raise prices then it would benefit the minimum wage earners. I agree with that. My problem is since small businesses make up a large portion of employment for minimum wage earners they would be affected more than the corporations. They are less equipped to handle a higher cost of doing business and may close thus putting more people out of work.

It doesn't work that way. Low end labor is a relatively minor component of the cost of a product. Even if a product has a razor thin margin, the price would only increase by a small percentage. If companies have priced their products as high as they think the traffic will bear, the price won't go up - profit would just be decreased.

 

[koshergrl]

Why would it have zero effect? For one thing, big corporations can easily afford a raise in minimum wage. I can't seem them adjusting prices by very much. You are suggesting that the price increase would offset the income increase. What makes you so sure that would be the case? I am not saying it would fix the disparity. I just mean it is a step in the right direction.

The majority of workers in America do not work for big Corporations.
Statistics tell us, and past history tell us that it doesn't work.
And it harms the poor and fixed income groups greatly and causes more government dependency.

The majority huh? Can you provide evidence of that?

You're a moron.

Here's the evidence of that:

"Fully 99 percent of all independent enterprises in the country employ fewer than 500 people. These small enterprises account for 52 percent of all U.S. workers, according to the U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA). "

Small Business in the United States

 

[RKMBrown]

C'mon, now you're just trying to be obtuse.

I wish I had a dollar for every time a someone told me a thing can't be done. Wealth is not a limited resource. There is no such thing as a fixed amount of wealth to go around. It does not work that way. You may not think yourself capable of producing a million in goods but that does not mean everyone is like you.

I think you've spent so much time in the software world, you've forgotten that there are resources that are finite. Energy, water, arable land are the biggies. And that doesn't cover the artificial scarcities like medical care, etc.

So just out of curiosity, how do you think everyone could become a millionaire?

Huh? Do you have any idea how much energy is available for us use? Energy, is for all intents and purposes, infinite. Just how much energy do you think you need to be rich these days? We live on a planet that is covered with water, selling me on water scarcity isn't gonna work. Arable land scarcity, has been solved to a large degree with hydroponics and green houses.

How do I think everyone could become a millionaire? First each person is an individual, what works for one person does not work for others. Second, not everyone wants to be a millionaire, let alone do the work to get there. As to particular ways, you have just pointed out a few needs of the people. Addressing needs of the people is usually a good way to get rich.

 

[Vox]

Why would it have zero effect? For one thing, big corporations can easily afford a raise in minimum wage. I can't seem them adjusting prices by very much. You are suggesting that the price increase would offset the income increase. What makes you so sure that would be the case? I am not saying it would fix the disparity. I just mean it is a step in the right direction.

The majority of workers in America do not work for big Corporations.
Statistics tell us, and past history tell us that it doesn't work.
And it harms the poor and fixed income groups greatly and causes more government dependency.

The majority huh? Can you provide evidence of that?

well, YOU did not provide any evidence to back up your solution of raising up the minimum wage to 9$ as a method to help the poor, so why do you expect anybody to prove anything to you?

 

[Asclepias]

Why would it have zero effect? For one thing, big corporations can easily afford a raise in minimum wage. I can't seem them adjusting prices by very much. You are suggesting that the price increase would offset the income increase. What makes you so sure that would be the case? I am not saying it would fix the disparity. I just mean it is a step in the right direction.

If prices go up along with the minimum wage those minimum wage earners are in the same position. If the corporations and small businesses dont raise prices then it would benefit the minimum wage earners. I agree with that. My problem is since small businesses make up a large portion of employment for minimum wage earners they would be affected more than the corporations. They are less equipped to handle a higher cost of doing business and may close thus putting more people out of work.

It doesn't work that way. Low end labor is a relatively minor component of the cost of a product. Even if a product has a razor thin margin, the price would only increase by a small percentage. If companies have priced their products as high as they think the traffic will bear, the price won't go up - profit would just be decreased.

You are correct about pricing somewhat. However, I think you are forgetting what the presence of disposable income will do to the market. It will raise prices of raw materials thus affecting the cost of business. If the profit is wiped out or too low businesses will close. Now people are back on the dole.