Zone1 Three Temptations

[Meriweather]

I like it when religious people get mad when we tell them their entire religion is made up. Just like all the other religions. They can't handle the truth so they make it personal. They ask us "why we attack the lord" when in reality we are not attacking the lord. We don't think the lord exists. We are attacking them. We are mocking them. Then they tell us we're going to go to hell for mocking the lord. When we are not. We are mocking them!

Neither God nor our faith is "made up", it is the result of observation. Are you certain people are mad? The reason I ask, is I am wondering if it possible they are simply exasperated, wondering why some cannot open their eyes and see--why can't they be observant?

One of the first things we teach very young children are colors. Most are very excited to identify and name the colors they see around them. We were perplexed by a young family member who had no interest in this. None. A year passed and we learned he was completely color blind. He saw in black and white.

As his reality was black and white, I wonder if he ever thought that all of us idiots around him were making it up. I have a feeling the same kind of thing may be true of atheists. They truly do not 'see' and come to the reasonable conclusion that the rest of us are making it up.

 

[ding]

And you've seen our common response to that right? The day a militant atheist burns you at the stake let us know. Because usually all we want to do is debate you. And we don't want you insisting that god be intertwined with our government because it's made up horse shit used to control the stupid masses. Secular is the way to go.

Donald says he wants to make it illegal to allow children to go to church until they are adults. He said he's abhorred by Christianity. I can see you there too. Your too emotionally invested in your beliefs.

 

[Donald H]

Neither God nor our faith is "made up", it is the result of observation. Are you certain people are mad? The reason I ask, is I am wondering if it possible they are simply exasperated, wondering why some cannot open their eyes and see--why can't they be observant?

One of the first things we teach very young children are colors. Most are very excited to identify and name the colors they see around them. We were perplexed by a young family member who had no interest in this. None. A year passed and we learned he was completely color blind. He saw in black and white.

As his reality was black and white, I wonder if he ever thought that all of us idiots around him were making it up. I have a feeling the same kind of thing may be true of atheists. They truly do not 'see' and come to the reasonable conclusion that the rest of us are making it up.

I don't think you're making anything up. You're a true believer who hasn't compromised his/her faith by turning to hateful attacks against others.

But you 'are' the exception to other Christians on this forum, as you must have noticed.

i've just decided to not give any attention to those who appear to be begging for attention because they want the privilege of fighting with a real atheist.

 

[Meriweather]

I don't think you're making anything up. You're a true believer who hasn't compromised his/her faith by turning to hateful attacks against others.

But you 'are' the exception to other Christians on this forum, as you must have noticed.

Any difference is not in my faith. People are passionate in their beliefs which is how it should be.

The difference may be that I try very hard not to use the word 'you'.

That keeps me focused on the topic instead of on my fellow posters. We do not know one another, and in my experience, speculation about anyone we only know on line is wrong more often than not. That being the case, I look for the divine spark deep in each of us. Hard to be wrong about the divine.

 

[sealybobo]

Donald says he wants to make it illegal to allow children to go to church until they are adults. He said he's abhorred by Christianity. I can see you there too. Your too emotionally invested in your beliefs.

I agree children should not be brainwashed with religion. Lying to your kid like that is really setting us back. Your kids are growing up to be assholes. Insurrectionists. Racists. Sexist. Ignorant or greedy.

 

[Meriweather]

I agree children should not be brainwashed with religion.

As a child, were you taught religion?

 

[sealybobo]

As a child, were you taught religion?

Yes and no. My aunt was the first one who tried to tell me the creation story. And we sort of stopped going to church when I was young because the leaders were aholes. Why?

 

[Meriweather]

Yes and no. My aunt was the first one who tried to tell me the creation story. And we sort of stopped going to church when I was young because the leaders were aholes. Why?

I was wondering if you came to the conclusion not to teach children religion by childhood experiences, or whether it was a conclusion reached by an adult who sees no purpose in religious education.

 

[sealybobo]

I was wondering if you came to the conclusion not to teach children religion by childhood experiences, or whether it was a conclusion reached by an adult who sees no purpose in religious education.

Well I would have a very liberal approach to any religious thinking I discussed with a child. I would tell them

I know I would tell my kid there are people who believe in god and people who don't. And there are people who take the bible literally and people who believe in Christianity but don't necessarily believe the bible stories. Cherry pickers I call them.

I would tell them the creation story and then I'd tell them about science and the big bang and how big the universe is, and how much we don't know.

If anything I say doesn't make sense they should not take my word for it. They should do their own research and come to their own conclusion. Doesn't matter what a parent or preacher says. If it doesn't make sense don't accept it.

 

[Meriweather]

I know I would tell my kid there are people who believe in god and people who don't. And there are people who take the bible literally and people who believe in Christianity but don't necessarily believe the bible stories. Cherry pickers I call them.

I was born into a family where some believed and some didn't. My children were too. This wasn't news to us, it was the norm. As they grew, they had friends and teachers of most beliefs, and they came to know of different beliefs, including witchcraft.

 

[Meriweather]

I would tell them the creation story and then I'd tell them about science and the big bang and how big the universe is, and how much we don't know.

I wish I had also told them more about the history and the cultures of Biblical times, and how/why Biblical stories developed as they did. There are so many lessons that takes an understanding of earlier cultures to fully discern those lessons.

Science would take care of itself, as science is taught in school, whereas these other lessons are not.

 

[Meriweather]

If anything I say doesn't make sense they should not take my word for it. They should do their own research and come to their own conclusion. Doesn't matter what a parent or preacher says. If it doesn't make sense don't accept it.

I would recommend deeper study of the history and culture, research youngsters probably have not the time or interest until later in life. I would (and did) suggest when they were older and had more time to study Jewish scholars when reading the Old Testament.

I am more of the mind that people should study the various scholars and commentaries to gain as much perspective as possible, and decide whose ideas their own thoughts most aligned with. Simply reading the Bible and coming up with one's own ideas misses a lot.

 

[sealybobo]

I would recommend deeper study of the history and culture, research youngsters probably have not the time or interest until later in life. I would (and did) suggest when they were older and had more time to study Jewish scholars when reading the Old Testament.

I am more of the mind that people should study the various scholars and commentaries to gain as much perspective as possible, and decide whose ideas their own thoughts most aligned with. Simply reading the Bible and coming up with one's own ideas misses a lot.

I think anyone who hasn't doubted god's existence can't be all that bright. And they can be super smart in other areas too so maybe it isn't stupid. Maybe it's more wishful thinking outweighs common sense. My neighbor said it last night. He would hate to think this is all their is. So it's wishful thinking. Hopeful thinking. Makes us feel better about ourselves.

I loved avoiding the question whenever my nephews asked why I don't go to church. I told them I go to another church. Muslim. We would all laugh. But I never told them I didn't believe. Then one day my 18 year old nephew said he had doubts if god exists. I'm so glad it wasn't me who planted that seed or told him. I would feel guilty. But I'm also glad he has the intelligence to think that through without the brainwashing from birth stopping him cold in his mental tracks.

He may come back to believing in god. For some reason I don't feel the desire to recruit him to the dark side. There are more believers than non believers. That means more women are believers. And I want him to marry and be fruitful. I actually want him to marry a Greek woman. How's he going to find one? Probably in church. So I see the benefits to being religious, even if I don't believe the religion.

 

[Meriweather]

I loved avoiding the question whenever my nephews asked why I don't go to church. I told them I go to another church. Muslim. We would all laugh. But I never told them I didn't believe. Then one day my 18 year old nephew said he had doubts if god exists. I'm so glad it wasn't me who planted that seed or told him. I would feel guilty. But I'm also glad he has the intelligence to think that through without the brainwashing from birth stopping him cold in his mental tracks.

I will argue it takes more intelligence to believe in God.

Seriously, do atheists spend any serious time intelligently seeking God, or do they decide that for them it is not worth the effort? The easier way is to believe God does not exist, so why not be an atheist. What excuse do they offer? God is a spiritual being so I'll argue there is no physical evidence! Everyone will buy that! Well, except for intelligent believers who liken that excuse to someone looking at a rock and saying, "No water so water does not exist."

Scripture clearly states faith is a gift. Of the many atheists I know, all go for the "evidence" bit, when telling the truth they weren't given the gift of faith explains so much. As a person of faith, faith that God has a different path for atheists to follow makes sense. Of course, all the atheists I have ever met have been truly great people.

I sometimes wonder if it were possible that they wouldn't have attained that same greatness had they relied on faith. Naturally, just as it is with people of faith, there is no one reason for lack of faith that fits all atheists. Besides (as the saying goes), The more important thing is that God believes in you, not that you believe in God.

In conclusion...there are very intelligent people on both sides.

 

[sealybobo]

I will argue it takes more intelligence to believe in God.

Seriously, do atheists spend any serious time intelligently seeking God, or do they decide that for them it is not worth the effort? The easier way is to believe God does not exist, so why not be an atheist. What excuse do they offer? God is a spiritual being so I'll argue there is no physical evidence! Everyone will buy that! Well, except for intelligent believers who liken that excuse to someone looking at a rock and saying, "No water so water does not exist."

Scripture clearly states faith is a gift. Of the many atheists I know, all go for the "evidence" bit, when telling the truth they weren't given the gift of faith explains so much. As a person of faith, faith that God has a different path for atheists to follow makes sense. Of course, all the atheists I have ever met have been truly great people.

I sometimes wonder if it were possible that they wouldn't have attained that same greatness had they relied on faith. Naturally, just as it is with people of faith, there is no one reason for lack of faith that fits all atheists. Besides (as the saying goes), The more important thing is that God believes in you, not that you believe in God.

In conclusion...there are very intelligent people on both sides.

OMG I spent a lifetime seeking god. I came to a very intelligent conclusion that all religions are made up. You think yours isn't but you know Mormon, islam are made up right?

So if all religions are made up, even yours, a spin off of Jewdaoism, then no one has ever seen god. So we are back to before all the organized religions were made up. Just speculation. But now we have science to answer a lot of the questions that before we just said, "must be god". Now we know better. But the goal post kept getting moved. Still no proof of god and disproving him can't be done. So it's just speculation and wishful thinking.

Knowing everything I know I know it's just wishful thinking on your part mixed with willful gullability.

The only way for me to believe is because I want there to be a god and a heaven. Knowing that, I can't fool myself like you have.

 

[sealybobo]

I will argue it takes more intelligence to believe in God.

Seriously, do atheists spend any serious time intelligently seeking God, or do they decide that for them it is not worth the effort? The easier way is to believe God does not exist, so why not be an atheist. What excuse do they offer? God is a spiritual being so I'll argue there is no physical evidence! Everyone will buy that! Well, except for intelligent believers who liken that excuse to someone looking at a rock and saying, "No water so water does not exist."

Scripture clearly states faith is a gift. Of the many atheists I know, all go for the "evidence" bit, when telling the truth they weren't given the gift of faith explains so much. As a person of faith, faith that God has a different path for atheists to follow makes sense. Of course, all the atheists I have ever met have been truly great people.

I sometimes wonder if it were possible that they wouldn't have attained that same greatness had they relied on faith. Naturally, just as it is with people of faith, there is no one reason for lack of faith that fits all atheists. Besides (as the saying goes), The more important thing is that God believes in you, not that you believe in God.

In conclusion...there are very intelligent people on both sides.

People who believe in god don't believe in evolution or man made climate change. And a lot of them think the election was stolen from Trump, even though the evidence clearly shows Trump tried to steal the election. Still religious people support Trump.

So no. It does not take intelligence to believe in god.

Go to the poorest places in the world. The shitholes of the world. The poorest dumbest people believe the most. Mexico is full of unintelligent people who believe in God. My grandmother was dumb as a bag of rocks. She swallowed religion easily. Never questioned it.

 

[Meriweather]

OMG I spent a lifetime seeking god. I came to a very intelligent conclusion that all religions are made up. You think yours isn't but you know Mormon, islam are made up right?

Why would/should I think Islam and the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints are made up?

While I am not a big fan of Joseph Smith, I am a huge enthusiast of the Holy Spirit and what he can do to lend a hand to those who seek God. So even though they (in my opinion) have some off-the-wall beliefs and practices, they deserve credit for their efforts to serve God.

Muhammad noted the unity in the people who worshiped together. He sought his people's own heritage back to Abraham and the God of Abraham and proclaimed it to the nation. I have taught many fine Muslim students who faithfully (and lovingly) follow Islam. God does mighty things for those who have great faith in him.

What mankind has observed is that God is in our midst, and life and relationships are better when following Him and His ways and teachings.

 

[Meriweather]

So if all religions are made up, even yours, a spin off of Jewdaoism, then no one has ever seen god. So we are back to before all the organized religions were made up. Just speculation. But now we have science to answer a lot of the questions that before we just said, "must be god". Now we know better. But the goal post kept getting moved. Still no proof of god and disproving him can't be done. So it's just speculation and wishful thinking.

Again, religions are not "made up." People observe and unite around God, seek Him and seek to follow His ways. Why? Because God is our ideal. If one cannot believe in God, I am betting they understand uniting around an ideal, that is, something greater than self.

Through the ages, it was not as much "must be God" as something greater than our own understanding and therefore left to God. What does Genesis tell us about the desire of mankind? It said we wished to become like God. We wanted to share in His knowledge, including the knowledge of good and evil.

People can and have experienced God in all ages, a spiritual experience that produces results in our physical lives and world.

 

[Meriweather]

Knowing everything I know I know it's just wishful thinking on your part mixed with willful gullability.

You may know everything you know, without knowing everything I know. Dismissing my search, hard work, and efforts as "gullibility" is a bit arrogant, wouldn't you agree?

It can be compared to the 49ers of 1849, rushing off to California certain they would find gold and become wealthy. Gullible, right? Most who rushed off to California found no gold. Some did, and many immediately lost their wealth. Very few retained and increased their wealth.

 

[sealybobo]

Again, religions are not "made up." People observe and unite around God, seek Him and seek to follow His ways. Why? Because God is our ideal. If one cannot believe in God, I am betting they understand uniting around an ideal, that is, something greater than self.

Through the ages, it was not as much "must be God" as something greater than our own understanding and therefore left to God. What does Genesis tell us about the desire of mankind? It said we wished to become like God. We wanted to share in His knowledge, including the knowledge of good and evil.

People can and have experienced God in all ages, a spiritual experience that produces results in our physical lives and world.

I thought only through Jesus can you enter heaven? So Muslims go to heaven even though they worship a different messiah? Any messiah will do? So Mormons are cool worshipping Joe Smith?