Time to declare War on Islam

[flacaltenn]

The permanent closing to all immigrants are not what we are talking about. All immigrants must be vetted. We welcome any immigrant who intends to assimilate into our culture. It would not be prohibitive to demand that every immigrant has a job before coming to the US or the resources to be a productive member of our society.

We need to take a look at the demands that Mexico uses before allowing new immigrants to their country. We can do the same.

Taking on responsible people is not in Democrats' interests.

Now THAT might be true. All the good intentions of Merkel, Hollande and EVEN now Turkey --- is coming back to haunt them. How stupid are we if Hillary is out there this week talking about taking 1 million more in her 1st term. If I trusted my government -- I'd reach a different conclusion about immigration risks. But I have almost ZERO faith that a pandering politician is gonna fix the incompetence and carelessness of that bureaucratic infrastructure.

 

[flacaltenn]

And that's the key point. Religions of all flavors go rogue and brutal when a tryrannical govt USES that religion, and codifies it into civil law. It's the CULTURE that determine the threat. Which is why the USA with it's fairly established Muslim fraction is NOT yet in turmoil..

Heard on CNN last night. 10% of France is Muslim. The BULK 1st or 2nd generation Mid-East Arab. Their JAILS are 70% Muslim inmates. Now THAT'S a badge of failure. If we can understand how that happened, the USA does NOT need a war to protect itself. Don't ACCOMMODATE that sick culture. And Islam will never be a threat here.

If there jails are truly 70% muslim...then I have to wonder if other factors are at play (similar to incarceration rates for blacks here) - racial and ethnic bits and income inequalities. In France, there is a significant ghettoization of Muslims and far less upward mobility.

OR -- it could simply be failure to adapt to Western law and justice. It's a damning statistic. SOMETHING is very very wrong. I'm a fan of looking at the desparate effects of contact with the justice for the poor. There are issues there. But THIS --- is simply failure to adjust.

How do you know it is simply a failure to adjust rather than any other aspects? Are you simply assuming that is the case because they are Muslim? Many may have been there for generations.

What IS different in France is that many Muslims suffer from job discrimmination, remain relegated to low income jobs, are often ghettoized (both by choice and by French society) suffer higher rates of unemployment. Crime is more often driven by economic circumstances then by racial ones.

Those stats are 1st and 2nd generation immigrants. That's why. 2nd gen goes back to what? the 80s? or 70s?
They were BROUGHT IN for labor. Now given the socialist stupidity of the French were nobody really works a real 40 hour job and if they do, it's mostly at the employee's pace -- then it's STILL a monumental miscalc of how many foreign workers that France could absorb. --- IF it's economic.

Don't know -- but I intend to find out. Because HOWEVER that number came about -- the USA should NEVER make the mistakes leading up to that.

The US is completely different. The problem with bringing in guest workers is there is no prospect of citizenship, and a separation.

Why is that "a problem"? They are Guest workers. Not Americans to be. For the most part they send money HOME to their families. It's a deal THEY created and wanted.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Islam can be practiced perfectly peacefully by "western leaning" tolerant cultures.

I'm glad you use the term "perfectly peacefully" in lieu of current events. It shows how deluded you and your ilk are.

We've had large Muslim communities for a hundred years. And those older generation American Muslims are a LOWER threat to you than your politicians. The INTOLERANCE and violence is incalcated in the psyches of people coming from current Arab cultures. They EXPECT not to be offended. TO be able to experience the justice system of a hell-hole like Sudan or Somalia. Because they were raised to believe that EVERYTHING western is evil. That's NOT solely an Islamic teaching. That's CULTURE. You practice Islam in a tolerant western society -- no problem.

You know what. If the Muslims of the 40's, 50's tried this sh**. It would've been over. It wouldn't of took. So, there's culpability of our society's "tolerance" that you embrace. And being offended is absolutely no excuse for violence. ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE. And you're admitting their hatred that they bring; so, do the math.

 

[Coyote]

If there jails are truly 70% muslim...then I have to wonder if other factors are at play (similar to incarceration rates for blacks here) - racial and ethnic bits and income inequalities. In France, there is a significant ghettoization of Muslims and far less upward mobility.

OR -- it could simply be failure to adapt to Western law and justice. It's a damning statistic. SOMETHING is very very wrong. I'm a fan of looking at the desparate effects of contact with the justice for the poor. There are issues there. But THIS --- is simply failure to adjust.

How do you know it is simply a failure to adjust rather than any other aspects? Are you simply assuming that is the case because they are Muslim? Many may have been there for generations.

What IS different in France is that many Muslims suffer from job discrimmination, remain relegated to low income jobs, are often ghettoized (both by choice and by French society) suffer higher rates of unemployment. Crime is more often driven by economic circumstances then by racial ones.

Those stats are 1st and 2nd generation immigrants. That's why. 2nd gen goes back to what? the 80s? or 70s?
They were BROUGHT IN for labor. Now given the socialist stupidity of the French were nobody really works a real 40 hour job and if they do, it's mostly at the employee's pace -- then it's STILL a monumental miscalc of how many foreign workers that France could absorb. --- IF it's economic.

Don't know -- but I intend to find out. Because HOWEVER that number came about -- the USA should NEVER make the mistakes leading up to that.

The US is completely different. The problem with bringing in guest workers is there is no prospect of citizenship, and a separation.

If we actually need workers brought into this country, which I doubt considering how many Americans are looking for work, why not bring in people with similar backgrounds and values? Immigration should be about what's good for America, not what's good for third worlders with nothing to offer but their many needs.

Many third world immigrants build thriving communities and succeed. I think our immigration policy to date has served us well.

I have mixed feelings about guest workers programs though, there is no incentive to a assimilate, families are often not included, and a defectors ghettoization occurs. They have no stake in a future here.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Christianity is not native either...it's an invasive species.

Sounds like some good ole fashion bigotry.

 

[Coyote]

But 2/3 of both houses and two thirds of state legislatures will. It's an attainable goal.

I think you overestimate it...anyone with a reasonably rational mind knows that restricting religious freedom for some could lead to restricting it for others...like you.

Incorrect. The 1st Amendment was passed under the general understanding that all religions possess good will. They did not have direct dealings with a malevolent religion like Islam that is utterly intolerant of all others. It's not difficult to establish a criteria consistent with the sentiments of the ratifiers, that the only good religion is that which accepts your right not to be in it.

The safety of the people of this nation should have priority over a religion not native to this country, and in direct conflict with our major religion, which is Christianity. Time to start working smart and not make the mistakes Europe made.

Christianity is not native either...it's an invasive species.

If christianity is that bad, and such an invasive and unwelcome species, why don't you go to a country where you'll be around people you really like. Maybe Iran, Pakistan, or one of the other Muslim nations?

You are claiming Islam is not native...well neither is Christianity. I have no problem with either in the US, do you?

 

[Coyote]

Christianity is not native either...it's an invasive species.

Sounds like some good ole fashion bigotry.

Which...calling Islam non native or calling Christianity non native?

 

[flacaltenn]

Islam can be practiced perfectly peacefully by "western leaning" tolerant cultures.

I'm glad you use the term "perfectly peacefully" in lieu of current events. It shows how deluded you and your ilk are.

We've had large Muslim communities for a hundred years. And those older generation American Muslims are a LOWER threat to you than your politicians. The INTOLERANCE and violence is incalcated in the psyches of people coming from current Arab cultures. They EXPECT not to be offended. TO be able to experience the justice system of a hell-hole like Sudan or Somalia. Because they were raised to believe that EVERYTHING western is evil. That's NOT solely an Islamic teaching. That's CULTURE. You practice Islam in a tolerant western society -- no problem.

You know what. If the Muslims of the 40's, 50's tried this sh**. It would've been over. It wouldn't of took. So, there's culpability of our society's "tolerance" that you embrace. And being offended is absolutely no excuse for violence. ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE. And you're admitting their hatred that they bring; so, do the math.

There is a massive culture shock. It's a serious issue. And maybe we need the Miley Cyrus test to see who are likely to adapt. When you have a large EXISTING Muslim community -- it's pretty much up to THEM to help with the assimilation. But in Europe --- the rates were just WAY to high for ANY organization to help with the adjustments. You ever been to Jordan or Egypt? They are relatively TAME compared where a lot of these refugees are coming from -- but even THERE -- you'd get an IMMEDIATE feeling for how alien the culture is.

 

[Jackson]

If there jails are truly 70% muslim...then I have to wonder if other factors are at play (similar to incarceration rates for blacks here) - racial and ethnic bits and income inequalities. In France, there is a significant ghettoization of Muslims and far less upward mobility.

OR -- it could simply be failure to adapt to Western law and justice. It's a damning statistic. SOMETHING is very very wrong. I'm a fan of looking at the desparate effects of contact with the justice for the poor. There are issues there. But THIS --- is simply failure to adjust.

How do you know it is simply a failure to adjust rather than any other aspects? Are you simply assuming that is the case because they are Muslim? Many may have been there for generations.

What IS different in France is that many Muslims suffer from job discrimmination, remain relegated to low income jobs, are often ghettoized (both by choice and by French society) suffer higher rates of unemployment. Crime is more often driven by economic circumstances then by racial ones.

Those stats are 1st and 2nd generation immigrants. That's why. 2nd gen goes back to what? the 80s? or 70s?
They were BROUGHT IN for labor. Now given the socialist stupidity of the French were nobody really works a real 40 hour job and if they do, it's mostly at the employee's pace -- then it's STILL a monumental miscalc of how many foreign workers that France could absorb. --- IF it's economic.

Don't know -- but I intend to find out. Because HOWEVER that number came about -- the USA should NEVER make the mistakes leading up to that.

The US is completely different. The problem with bringing in guest workers is there is no prospect of citizenship, and a separation.

Why is that "a problem"? They are Guest workers. Not Americans to be. For the most part they send money HOME to their families. It's a deal THEY created and wanted.

We witnessed American businesses firing American citizens but only after they trained their Mexican replacements. Time to put a halt to even guest workers until it is proven that Americans don't want those jobs. If a person comes to America for a job, prove his intent by applying the rigid standards for citizenship.

 

[flacaltenn]

Christianity is not native either...it's an invasive species.

Sounds like some good ole fashion bigotry.

Which...calling Islam non native or calling Christianity non native?

Either. Carrying that out to a conclusion that neither Islam or Christianity is "native" to ANYWHERE --- just isn't helpful.

 

[jasonnfree]

I think you overestimate it...anyone with a reasonably rational mind knows that restricting religious freedom for some could lead to restricting it for others...like you.

Incorrect. The 1st Amendment was passed under the general understanding that all religions possess good will. They did not have direct dealings with a malevolent religion like Islam that is utterly intolerant of all others. It's not difficult to establish a criteria consistent with the sentiments of the ratifiers, that the only good religion is that which accepts your right not to be in it.

The safety of the people of this nation should have priority over a religion not native to this country, and in direct conflict with our major religion, which is Christianity. Time to start working smart and not make the mistakes Europe made.

Christianity is not native either...it's an invasive species.

If christianity is that bad, and such an invasive and unwelcome species, why don't you go to a country where you'll be around people you really like. Maybe Iran, Pakistan, or one of the other Muslim nations?

You are claiming Islam is not native...well neither is Christianity. I have no problem with either in the US, do you?

I'm claiming that christianity is native to the USA, which was formed back in the 18th century. Of course I know that there weren't christians here since the beginning of time. Why do you continue defending a religion which stirs up hate, discontent, and violence in every country it's people immigrate to?

 

[Jackson]

Christianity is not native either...it's an invasive species.

Sounds like some good ole fashion bigotry.

Which...calling Islam non native or calling Christianity non native?

Either. Carrying that out to a conclusion that neither Islam or Christianity is "native" to ANYWHERE --- just isn't helpful.

Obama refuses to say that the US is primarily a Christian nation whole most of us agree it is while at the same time allowing a freedom of religion or from religion. When the religion of a person coming into our nation is so contrary to our culture and beliefs, it makes life more difficult for any of them to harmonize with US native citizens. Why do they bother to come to a country that is so contrary to their own?

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Islam can be practiced perfectly peacefully by "western leaning" tolerant cultures.

I'm glad you use the term "perfectly peacefully" in lieu of current events. It shows how deluded you and your ilk are.

We've had large Muslim communities for a hundred years. And those older generation American Muslims are a LOWER threat to you than your politicians. The INTOLERANCE and violence is incalcated in the psyches of people coming from current Arab cultures. They EXPECT not to be offended. TO be able to experience the justice system of a hell-hole like Sudan or Somalia. Because they were raised to believe that EVERYTHING western is evil. That's NOT solely an Islamic teaching. That's CULTURE. You practice Islam in a tolerant western society -- no problem.

You know what. If the Muslims of the 40's, 50's tried this sh**. It would've been over. It wouldn't of took. So, there's culpability of our society's "tolerance" that you embrace. And being offended is absolutely no excuse for violence. ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE. And you're admitting their hatred that they bring; so, do the math.

There is a massive culture shock. It's a serious issue. And maybe we need the Miley Cyrus test to see who are likely to adapt. When you have a large EXISTING Muslim community -- it's pretty much up to THEM to help with the assimilation. But in Europe --- the rates were just WAY to high for ANY organization to help with the adjustments. You ever been to Jordan or Egypt? They are relatively TAME compared where a lot of these refugees are coming from -- but even THERE -- you'd get an IMMEDIATE feeling for how alien the culture is.

They cling to their dogma. This isn't on us; it just isn't. In my own life, I've seen very well adjusted Muslims revert to anti social customs. You can't fix stupid, which is the essence of Islam. Yes, some rise above it or otherwise take what good they can find in it. But ultimately, they're in a repressive situation; and the results are often not kind.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

I think you overestimate it...anyone with a reasonably rational mind knows that restricting religious freedom for some could lead to restricting it for others...like you.

Incorrect. The 1st Amendment was passed under the general understanding that all religions possess good will. They did not have direct dealings with a malevolent religion like Islam that is utterly intolerant of all others. It's not difficult to establish a criteria consistent with the sentiments of the ratifiers, that the only good religion is that which accepts your right not to be in it.

The safety of the people of this nation should have priority over a religion not native to this country, and in direct conflict with our major religion, which is Christianity. Time to start working smart and not make the mistakes Europe made.

Christianity is not native either...it's an invasive species.

If christianity is that bad, and such an invasive and unwelcome species, why don't you go to a country where you'll be around people you really like. Maybe Iran, Pakistan, or one of the other Muslim nations?

You are claiming Islam is not native...well neither is Christianity. I have no problem with either in the US, do you?

Christianity has been on this continent for 500 years and is the first unified, organized religion ever. My family has French Catholic roots from 100 years before America, my tribe among the first to make contact with missionaries. Among my people there was never a systemized, universal religion until the Christians came.

Just what does it take for a religion to be "native" here?

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Go back and read prior posts, I was talking about American Muslims because we are talking about stripping fundamental American rights from them.

Yet now you wish to point out that foreign Muslims cause the 9/11 tragedy and that we shouldn't put a moratorium on allowing them to come here.

Sorry but if the foreign ones are that way I see no reason to allow them to come here.

So?

Just questioning which type of word they mean... It may add clarification on what Muslims are talking about.

I think it's better we stick with facts then conspiracy theory....

Facts are that most of the terrorist attacks around the world are perpetrated by Muslims... Even the recent Dallas police shootings of the BLM movement were perpetrated by a Muslim.

Neither of which have anything to do with Pew...deflection much? If you have evidence supporting your claim please feel free to present it.

Show me your evidence as to why I should have any reason to trust them and their results.

Nice deflection...again. In case you forgot, we are talking about American citizens and stripping away their rights because of their religion.

Thank you... And any time you mention that the 9/11 tragedy was perpetrated by Muslim foreigners I will make a point that we don't need to import them.

Again, we are talking about human beings, American citizens, not tools, stop trying to deflect.

No... Are they family to me in some immediate way? I think not.

Yes...like slavery once happened...I'm trying to figure out why you think that because it once happened it's "excusable" to do it again.

So did the Japanese interment and German-American suppression in more recent history. See any statues to the German-American soldier who filled uniforms for the United States in those two World Wars? Oh wait! You don't want to hear about that... Why should I care if the government does it once again to some other cultural group? They can learn to assimilate like all us other white folk since technically most of them are white anyway.

What evidence do you have that it's a minority of a minority? Or..is it just your opinion?

You're the one saying that radical Muslims compose a small segment of the Muslim population. So they must be a minority of the minority.....Unless you've changed your mind of course and are now saying that all Muslims are radicals.

*****CHUCKLE*****

If that's the case then screw them all and let God sort it out later.

And what does that have to do with anything?

Obviously you don't know the story of Abraham.

You should care because you are an American.

You say that last part like it means something altruistic. I've done my time for king and country and don't see any reason to be any more altruistic than the government has treated my family in the past... The Muslims in this country can assimilate or be treated as any other cultural group that refuses to assimilate has been in the past.

*****SMILE*****

 

[frigidweirdo]

After all, they committed the first tens of thousands of attacks...

Not declaration of war, but prohibition of Islam in western countries!
All mosques shall be closed, all Muslims shall became a choice:

Conversation to Christianity or Ticket to the country of origin.

First Amendment?

Then the terrorists win if you give up your freedom to fight them.

The terrorist win when they get to murder people. Their First Amendment rights do not trump the right for people to live. Not sure how "we" would be giving up any First Amendment rights by banning Islamic terrorist teachings and recruiting.

In Germany they banned anything to do with Nazis. You can't even wear or draw a swastika. It certainly is a restriction on free speech, but it works for them.

So, you think freedom of religion should just be banned, and is comparable to the Germans banning Nazis stuff? Er...

If you ban one religion, then you've opened the doors for people to be forced to be religious and all of that. I don't want to live like that. And the terrorists have won. They're not doing what they're doing just to kill, though some of those carrying out the actions might be, but then they can't really lose, can they, just go to the US, killing is cultural there.

Islam is Nazism.

Saying that's how the "terrorists win" is bullshit. They will "win" if we continue to do nothing and let them slaughter us. They will win if we keep letting millions of them into Western countries and they keep breeding like rabbits until they outnumber everyone else.
They lose when we send them packing and keep them in their own shithole lands were they can freely kill each other off.

No, Nazism is Nazism and Islam is Islam.

They're slaughtering us?

Funny how Islam is slaughtering us, and yet we're not slaughtering ourselves even though more people die from guns from US citizens than from terrorist attacks. And you can include those in France and Belgium to that too.

Letting them in is another matter. Immigration should be controlled, not along the lines of "you're a Muslim, you're not getting in", but just letting in people who are needed and kicking those out who aren't doing anything.

However you're just coming up with traditional right wing "be tough on everything" kind of attitude which doesn't actually make anyone safer.

However not getting into wars in Muslim oil rich countries just to make a quick profit? Now there's an idea that would have prevented all this shit.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Not declaration of war, but prohibition of Islam in western countries!
All mosques shall be closed, all Muslims shall became a choice:

Conversation to Christianity or Ticket to the country of origin.

First Amendment?

Then the terrorists win if you give up your freedom to fight them.

The terrorist win when they get to murder people. Their First Amendment rights do not trump the right for people to live. Not sure how "we" would be giving up any First Amendment rights by banning Islamic terrorist teachings and recruiting.

In Germany they banned anything to do with Nazis. You can't even wear or draw a swastika. It certainly is a restriction on free speech, but it works for them.

So, you think freedom of religion should just be banned, and is comparable to the Germans banning Nazis stuff? Er...

If you ban one religion, then you've opened the doors for people to be forced to be religious and all of that. I don't want to live like that. And the terrorists have won. They're not doing what they're doing just to kill, though some of those carrying out the actions might be, but then they can't really lose, can they, just go to the US, killing is cultural there.

Don't ban Islam.

Just prevent Muslims from crossing borders. That should take care of it.

That too. Unfortunately because of abortion, existing Muslims may simply outbreed us, not to mention their highly successful prison recruiting program. Yes, we need to stop the inflow, but we need to ban it too.

Or need to stop there being reasons for Muslims to be angry.

 

[frigidweirdo]

First Amendment?

Then the terrorists win if you give up your freedom to fight them.

The terrorist win when they get to murder people. Their First Amendment rights do not trump the right for people to live. Not sure how "we" would be giving up any First Amendment rights by banning Islamic terrorist teachings and recruiting.

In Germany they banned anything to do with Nazis. You can't even wear or draw a swastika. It certainly is a restriction on free speech, but it works for them.

So, you think freedom of religion should just be banned, and is comparable to the Germans banning Nazis stuff? Er...

If you ban one religion, then you've opened the doors for people to be forced to be religious and all of that. I don't want to live like that. And the terrorists have won. They're not doing what they're doing just to kill, though some of those carrying out the actions might be, but then they can't really lose, can they, just go to the US, killing is cultural there.

You're ready to offer freedom of religion to those who act to kill you in name of said religion?

I understand what freedom of religion means.

Those who have done nothing don't have a problem, regardless of their religion. Those who do something wrong, break the law, can have their rights infringed on AFTER DUE PROCESS.


You start taking away rights and the whole system falls. Your right to guns fall with it. Your others go with it too, then what do you have?

People who don't understand rights and think they can pick and choose which they like, simply don't get it.

I can see your point, but you need to differ civilian rights for human rights. Giving civilian rights to your enemy will one day perhaps bring down your natural right to live in peace and security. Nobody says "take away all their rights", and kicking out random people is of course, not a good solution. But as long as you put on a higher pedestal their right for freedom, and your right for security beneath (argue all you want, this is the situation today), then those things will keep happening. It's all starts and ends with the PC

The thing with freedoms is there is a point where people lose them. If there is terrorism then you do all you can to secure the country, if something goes wrong then something goes wrong.

The funny thing is that the right will talk about taking rights away from Muslims, but if you talk about taking away the second amendment, then you get completely the contrary arguments coming out of their mouths.

 

[koshergrl]

First Amendment?

Then the terrorists win if you give up your freedom to fight them.

The terrorist win when they get to murder people. Their First Amendment rights do not trump the right for people to live. Not sure how "we" would be giving up any First Amendment rights by banning Islamic terrorist teachings and recruiting.

In Germany they banned anything to do with Nazis. You can't even wear or draw a swastika. It certainly is a restriction on free speech, but it works for them.

So, you think freedom of religion should just be banned, and is comparable to the Germans banning Nazis stuff? Er...

If you ban one religion, then you've opened the doors for people to be forced to be religious and all of that. I don't want to live like that. And the terrorists have won. They're not doing what they're doing just to kill, though some of those carrying out the actions might be, but then they can't really lose, can they, just go to the US, killing is cultural there.

Don't ban Islam.

Just prevent Muslims from crossing borders. That should take care of it.

That too. Unfortunately because of abortion, existing Muslims may simply outbreed us, not to mention their highly successful prison recruiting program. Yes, we need to stop the inflow, but we need to ban it too.

Or need to stop there being reasons for Muslims to be angry.

If we cause their anger, why do they direct so much ofnit at their own women?

 

[koshergrl]

Canadian Imam: “I don’t need to share compassion or sympathy” for Nice’s victims