Todays school shooting

[westwall]

Most are. Gun laws that prevent non criminals from owning weapons are stupid. They do nothing to prevent crime as they target those who don't break the laws anyway.

you're ignoring the other side of the coin where law enforcement needs laws to exist before they can demand they be upheld.

going by your simplicity, we don't need any laws at all because criminals will just commit crimes anyway.

"gun laws" do more than just "prevent non criminals from owning weapons".

Laws prevent no crimes. They merely codify an offense that can then be punished. if your philosophy had any base in reality whatsoever no one would ever take illegal drugs, no one would drive drunk, no one would murder anyone merely because a law told them not to. It is infantile to believe those silly things, yet here you are spouting them off as if they are meaningful.

Laws that take away weapons can have an impact, though, because those weapons won't be available to murder.

Tell that to Mexico, 36,000 dead and counting from weapons that are illegal.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Well, this just doesn't fit the leftist narrative at all, huh?

 

[Geaux4it]

No

-Geaux

Looks like you think all gun laws are bad.

Most are. Gun laws that prevent non criminals from owning weapons are stupid. They do nothing to prevent crime as they target those who don't break the laws anyway.

You quoted the talking point perfectly. What gun laws do you agree with, if any..

I want to see a national gun buyer check, that is free to use, that whoever wishes to sell a gun to another person, makes a phone call, and the buyer is checked for eligibility. No gun registration, no tracking of who owns what. That is the universal background check that the majority of gun owners would be happy to support.

Gun registration is not part of the background check system we have now. Why are you whining about something that doesn't exist to start with?

It is in California, New York and other Communist states

-Geaux

 

[BULLDOG]

Gun registration is not part of the background check system we have now. Why are you whining about something that doesn't exist to start with?

It's called incrementalism. Start with a little bit until you eventually take it all. Now stop pretending you don't understand.

I know what incrimentalism is. Do current background checks include registration? We both know that the possibility of federal registration doesn't stand a chance. Nothing incremental there.

View attachment 193819

Not sure what that has to do with this discussion. Registration isn't required for licensed dealer sales, and there is no reason to believe it would be for universal background checks. You have been told to fear something that has no chance of happening. Just to be clear on your stance, would you approve of universal checks if there was a guarantee that no registration would ever be associated with them, or is there another reason you oppose them?

You cant do universal background checks without registering all guns.....you have been shown this over and over again. You have to know who owns the gun, originally, to know if a background check was done when they sold it or gave it away...so you have to register guns...

This is the only reason the anti gun leadership wants universal background checks......

Unviersal background checks do not stop criminals, who use straw buyers or steal their guns, or mass shooters, who simply pass any background check or steal their guns.....

There is no promise that anti gunners keep.

You have asserted that background checks can't be implemented without registratrion lots of times, but it just isn't so. Our current system of background checks from licensed dealers dosen't require registration, and there is no reason to believe universal checks would have to be any different.

 

[miketx]

It's called incrementalism. Start with a little bit until you eventually take it all. Now stop pretending you don't understand.

I know what incrimentalism is. Do current background checks include registration? We both know that the possibility of federal registration doesn't stand a chance. Nothing incremental there.

View attachment 193819

Not sure what that has to do with this discussion. Registration isn't required for licensed dealer sales, and there is no reason to believe it would be for universal background checks. You have been told to fear something that has no chance of happening. Just to be clear on your stance, would you approve of universal checks if there was a guarantee that no registration would ever be associated with them, or is there another reason you oppose them?

You cant do universal background checks without registering all guns.....you have been shown this over and over again. You have to know who owns the gun, originally, to know if a background check was done when they sold it or gave it away...so you have to register guns...

This is the only reason the anti gun leadership wants universal background checks......

Unviersal background checks do not stop criminals, who use straw buyers or steal their guns, or mass shooters, who simply pass any background check or steal their guns.....

There is no promise that anti gunners keep.

You have asserted that background checks can't be implemented without registratrion lots of times, but it just isn't so. Our current system of background checks from licensed dealers dosen't require registration, and there is no reason to believe universal checks would have to be any different.

There is plenty of reason. Politicians and gun banners cannot be trusted.

 

[2aguy]

It's called incrementalism. Start with a little bit until you eventually take it all. Now stop pretending you don't understand.

I know what incrimentalism is. Do current background checks include registration? We both know that the possibility of federal registration doesn't stand a chance. Nothing incremental there.

View attachment 193819

Not sure what that has to do with this discussion. Registration isn't required for licensed dealer sales, and there is no reason to believe it would be for universal background checks. You have been told to fear something that has no chance of happening. Just to be clear on your stance, would you approve of universal checks if there was a guarantee that no registration would ever be associated with them, or is there another reason you oppose them?

You cant do universal background checks without registering all guns.....you have been shown this over and over again. You have to know who owns the gun, originally, to know if a background check was done when they sold it or gave it away...so you have to register guns...

This is the only reason the anti gun leadership wants universal background checks......

Unviersal background checks do not stop criminals, who use straw buyers or steal their guns, or mass shooters, who simply pass any background check or steal their guns.....

There is no promise that anti gunners keep.

You have asserted that background checks can't be implemented without registratrion lots of times, but it just isn't so. Our current system of background checks from licensed dealers dosen't require registration, and there is no reason to believe universal checks would have to be any different.

Yes and you ignore the fact that private sales are different. The government will not be able to tell if a background check is done for a private sale if they don't know who originally owned the gun.....the gun store will not sell a gun without a backgroud because of the law requiring it for all gun store sales....they can lose their license if they sell a gun without a background check.

There is every reason to know that registration is what the anti gunners want, and they will get there through universal background checks.

 

[BULLDOG]

Oh dear....doesn't fit the leftist desired outcome and narrative.

Whatever will they do. Are they going to say it's the officer's gun that needs to be taken away?

I'm sure some gun nut will claim that's what responsible gun owners want, but responsible gun owners want reasonable gun control.

You don't understand reasonable gun control.....what you want is more laws that restrict gun ownership for law abiding citizens.

Do you know what reasonable gun control is? If you are caught using a gun for a rape, robbery or murder, you go to prison for 30 years....this requires no new paperwork, it doesn't target law abiding gun owners ,and it would actually work.

Another reasonable gun control measure? If you are a felon caught with a gun, mere possession......you get 30 years in prison.....

Those work....nothing you propose works......we have shown how the laws you want do nothing except target law abiding gun owners in a slow, constriction of the Right to own and carry guns.

Other than universal background checks, what laws do you think I want?

Registration, licensing gun owners, mandatory insurance, magazine capacity limits, assault weapon bans......

Am I warm?

I don't advocate all the things on your list.. You have yet to show a rational reason to oppose those things I do advocate. I'm not the imagenary gun grabber that the NRA tells you people wanting reasonable controls are. You might want to look at the reality of the situation instead of the fiction you now believe.

 

[2aguy]

Most are. Gun laws that prevent non criminals from owning weapons are stupid. They do nothing to prevent crime as they target those who don't break the laws anyway.

you're ignoring the other side of the coin where law enforcement needs laws to exist before they can demand they be upheld.

going by your simplicity, we don't need any laws at all because criminals will just commit crimes anyway.

"gun laws" do more than just "prevent non criminals from owning weapons".

Laws prevent no crimes. They merely codify an offense that can then be punished. if your philosophy had any base in reality whatsoever no one would ever take illegal drugs, no one would drive drunk, no one would murder anyone merely because a law told them not to. It is infantile to believe those silly things, yet here you are spouting them off as if they are meaningful.

Laws that take away weapons can have an impact, though, because those weapons won't be available to murder.

criminals get guns, that is part of their job. Guns taken out, will be replaced because criminals need them.

 

[BULLDOG]

I'm sure some gun nut will claim that's what responsible gun owners want, but responsible gun owners want reasonable gun control.

Your idea of "reasonable" gun control is in effect in Chicago. How's that working out for you loons?

So why don't you tell me what you think my idea of "reasonable gun control" is? You seem to think you know more about my opinions than I do.

Universal background checks.
gun registration.
gun owner licensing.
training requirements.

Those are a few of the dumb ones you have mentioned in the past that have been shown to be useless for stopping criminals and mass shooters...but they will make it harder for law abiding people to own and carry guns, and it will put them in legal peril if they don't jump through your hoops, just like you want.

I have often mentioned universal background checks, but when did I advocate registration? Are you sure you aren't just imagining that?

I could be confusing you for the other anti gun extremists....but tell me I'm wrong....

You are wrong.

 

[BULLDOG]

I'm sure some gun nut will claim that's what responsible gun owners want, but responsible gun owners want reasonable gun control.

Your idea of "reasonable" gun control is in effect in Chicago. How's that working out for you loons?

So why don't you tell me what you think my idea of "reasonable gun control" is? You seem to think you know more about my opinions than I do.

Universal background checks.
gun registration.
gun owner licensing.
training requirements.

Those are a few of the dumb ones you have mentioned in the past that have been shown to be useless for stopping criminals and mass shooters...but they will make it harder for law abiding people to own and carry guns, and it will put them in legal peril if they don't jump through your hoops, just like you want.

I have often mentioned universal background checks, but when did I advocate registration? Are you sure you aren't just imagining that?

I could be confusing you for the other anti gun extremists....but tell me I'm wrong....

You are wrong.

 

[westwall]

Your idea of "reasonable" gun control is in effect in Chicago. How's that working out for you loons?

So why don't you tell me what you think my idea of "reasonable gun control" is? You seem to think you know more about my opinions than I do.

Universal background checks.
gun registration.
gun owner licensing.
training requirements.

Those are a few of the dumb ones you have mentioned in the past that have been shown to be useless for stopping criminals and mass shooters...but they will make it harder for law abiding people to own and carry guns, and it will put them in legal peril if they don't jump through your hoops, just like you want.

I have often mentioned universal background checks, but when did I advocate registration? Are you sure you aren't just imagining that?

I could be confusing you for the other anti gun extremists....but tell me I'm wrong....

You are wrong.

Verifiable evidence says otherwise.

 

[August West]

Most are. Gun laws that prevent non criminals from owning weapons are stupid. They do nothing to prevent crime as they target those who don't break the laws anyway.

you're ignoring the other side of the coin where law enforcement needs laws to exist before they can demand they be upheld.

going by your simplicity, we don't need any laws at all because criminals will just commit crimes anyway.

"gun laws" do more than just "prevent non criminals from owning weapons".

Indeed criminals own weapons but why are you and your like minded gun fondlers helping them to get them? Liberals aren`t helping the crazies, criminals and terror suspects acquire guns. It`s YOU!





Laws prevent no crimes. They merely codify an offense that can then be punished. if your philosophy had any base in reality whatsoever no one would ever take illegal drugs, no one would drive drunk, no one would murder anyone merely because a law told them not to. It is infantile to believe those silly things, yet here you are spouting them off as if they are meaningful.

Laws that take away weapons can have an impact, though, because those weapons won't be available to murder.

criminals get guns, that is part of their job. Guns taken out, will be replaced because criminals need them.

 

[westwall]

Most are. Gun laws that prevent non criminals from owning weapons are stupid. They do nothing to prevent crime as they target those who don't break the laws anyway.

you're ignoring the other side of the coin where law enforcement needs laws to exist before they can demand they be upheld.

going by your simplicity, we don't need any laws at all because criminals will just commit crimes anyway.

"gun laws" do more than just "prevent non criminals from owning weapons".

Indeed criminals own weapons but why are you and your like minded gun fondlers helping them to get them? Liberals aren`t helping the crazies, criminals and terror suspects acquire guns. It`s YOU!





Laws prevent no crimes. They merely codify an offense that can then be punished. if your philosophy had any base in reality whatsoever no one would ever take illegal drugs, no one would drive drunk, no one would murder anyone merely because a law told them not to. It is infantile to believe those silly things, yet here you are spouting them off as if they are meaningful.

Laws that take away weapons can have an impact, though, because those weapons won't be available to murder.

criminals get guns, that is part of their job. Guns taken out, will be replaced because criminals need them.

That's where you're wrong. We know that gun bans don't work. Instead, you need to keep the bad guys in prison where they belong. It is YOU who continuously let them out to prey on the innocent population all the time.

 

[miketx]

Whatever will they do. Are they going to say it's the officer's gun that needs to be taken away?

I'm sure some gun nut will claim that's what responsible gun owners want, but responsible gun owners want reasonable gun control.

You don't understand reasonable gun control.....what you want is more laws that restrict gun ownership for law abiding citizens.

Do you know what reasonable gun control is? If you are caught using a gun for a rape, robbery or murder, you go to prison for 30 years....this requires no new paperwork, it doesn't target law abiding gun owners ,and it would actually work.

Another reasonable gun control measure? If you are a felon caught with a gun, mere possession......you get 30 years in prison.....

Those work....nothing you propose works......we have shown how the laws you want do nothing except target law abiding gun owners in a slow, constriction of the Right to own and carry guns.

Other than universal background checks, what laws do you think I want?

Registration, licensing gun owners, mandatory insurance, magazine capacity limits, assault weapon bans......

Am I warm?

I don't advocate all the things on your list.. You have yet to show a rational reason to oppose those things I do advocate. I'm not the imagenary gun grabber that the NRA tells you people wanting reasonable controls are. You might want to look at the reality of the situation instead of the fiction you now believe.

A rational reason has been shown, you choose to ignore it.

 

[2aguy]

Whatever will they do. Are they going to say it's the officer's gun that needs to be taken away?

I'm sure some gun nut will claim that's what responsible gun owners want, but responsible gun owners want reasonable gun control.

You don't understand reasonable gun control.....what you want is more laws that restrict gun ownership for law abiding citizens.

Do you know what reasonable gun control is? If you are caught using a gun for a rape, robbery or murder, you go to prison for 30 years....this requires no new paperwork, it doesn't target law abiding gun owners ,and it would actually work.

Another reasonable gun control measure? If you are a felon caught with a gun, mere possession......you get 30 years in prison.....

Those work....nothing you propose works......we have shown how the laws you want do nothing except target law abiding gun owners in a slow, constriction of the Right to own and carry guns.

Other than universal background checks, what laws do you think I want?

Registration, licensing gun owners, mandatory insurance, magazine capacity limits, assault weapon bans......

Am I warm?

I don't advocate all the things on your list.. You have yet to show a rational reason to oppose those things I do advocate. I'm not the imagenary gun grabber that the NRA tells you people wanting reasonable controls are. You might want to look at the reality of the situation instead of the fiction you now believe.

I have looked at all of the gun laws you and the others want....and they are nothing but inch by inch restrictions on the Right to own and carry a gun for law abiding people. Criminals ignore the laws, mass shooters can jump through whatever hoops you put up...or they too steal the gun.....

 

[BULLDOG]

So why don't you tell me what you think my idea of "reasonable gun control" is? You seem to think you know more about my opinions than I do.

Universal background checks.
gun registration.
gun owner licensing.
training requirements.

Those are a few of the dumb ones you have mentioned in the past that have been shown to be useless for stopping criminals and mass shooters...but they will make it harder for law abiding people to own and carry guns, and it will put them in legal peril if they don't jump through your hoops, just like you want.

I have often mentioned universal background checks, but when did I advocate registration? Are you sure you aren't just imagining that?

as previously stated, it's called incrementalism and you know exactly what we are all talking about. The old frog in the water thing that "You see what it has to do with"....

At this point, you have neither the frog or the water. Yes, I know we are speaking figuratively.

Complete falsehood, we have all manner of gun control laws that do nothing but impede the law abiding.

You could be right, but what does that have to do with your frog. What increments have been enacted from those existing laws?

 

[BULLDOG]

Looks like you think all gun laws are bad.

Most are. Gun laws that prevent non criminals from owning weapons are stupid. They do nothing to prevent crime as they target those who don't break the laws anyway.

You quoted the talking point perfectly. What gun laws do you agree with, if any..

I want to see a national gun buyer check, that is free to use, that whoever wishes to sell a gun to another person, makes a phone call, and the buyer is checked for eligibility. No gun registration, no tracking of who owns what. That is the universal background check that the majority of gun owners would be happy to support.

Gun registration is not part of the background check system we have now. Why are you whining about something that doesn't exist to start with?

It is in California, New York and other Communist states

-Geaux

Communist states? I'll bet you wonder why people laugh at you too.

 

[BULLDOG]

I know what incrimentalism is. Do current background checks include registration? We both know that the possibility of federal registration doesn't stand a chance. Nothing incremental there.

View attachment 193819

Not sure what that has to do with this discussion. Registration isn't required for licensed dealer sales, and there is no reason to believe it would be for universal background checks. You have been told to fear something that has no chance of happening. Just to be clear on your stance, would you approve of universal checks if there was a guarantee that no registration would ever be associated with them, or is there another reason you oppose them?

You cant do universal background checks without registering all guns.....you have been shown this over and over again. You have to know who owns the gun, originally, to know if a background check was done when they sold it or gave it away...so you have to register guns...

This is the only reason the anti gun leadership wants universal background checks......

Unviersal background checks do not stop criminals, who use straw buyers or steal their guns, or mass shooters, who simply pass any background check or steal their guns.....

There is no promise that anti gunners keep.

You have asserted that background checks can't be implemented without registratrion lots of times, but it just isn't so. Our current system of background checks from licensed dealers dosen't require registration, and there is no reason to believe universal checks would have to be any different.

There is plenty of reason. Politicians and gun banners cannot be trusted.

Come on Mikey. Even you know that is a dumb non-answer answer.

 

[miketx]

View attachment 193819

Not sure what that has to do with this discussion. Registration isn't required for licensed dealer sales, and there is no reason to believe it would be for universal background checks. You have been told to fear something that has no chance of happening. Just to be clear on your stance, would you approve of universal checks if there was a guarantee that no registration would ever be associated with them, or is there another reason you oppose them?

You cant do universal background checks without registering all guns.....you have been shown this over and over again. You have to know who owns the gun, originally, to know if a background check was done when they sold it or gave it away...so you have to register guns...

This is the only reason the anti gun leadership wants universal background checks......

Unviersal background checks do not stop criminals, who use straw buyers or steal their guns, or mass shooters, who simply pass any background check or steal their guns.....

There is no promise that anti gunners keep.

You have asserted that background checks can't be implemented without registratrion lots of times, but it just isn't so. Our current system of background checks from licensed dealers dosen't require registration, and there is no reason to believe universal checks would have to be any different.

There is plenty of reason. Politicians and gun banners cannot be trusted.

Come on Mikey. Even you know that is a dumb non-answer answer.

What do they pay you to destroy the country

 

[BULLDOG]

I know what incrimentalism is. Do current background checks include registration? We both know that the possibility of federal registration doesn't stand a chance. Nothing incremental there.

View attachment 193819

Not sure what that has to do with this discussion. Registration isn't required for licensed dealer sales, and there is no reason to believe it would be for universal background checks. You have been told to fear something that has no chance of happening. Just to be clear on your stance, would you approve of universal checks if there was a guarantee that no registration would ever be associated with them, or is there another reason you oppose them?

You cant do universal background checks without registering all guns.....you have been shown this over and over again. You have to know who owns the gun, originally, to know if a background check was done when they sold it or gave it away...so you have to register guns...

This is the only reason the anti gun leadership wants universal background checks......

Unviersal background checks do not stop criminals, who use straw buyers or steal their guns, or mass shooters, who simply pass any background check or steal their guns.....

There is no promise that anti gunners keep.

You have asserted that background checks can't be implemented without registratrion lots of times, but it just isn't so. Our current system of background checks from licensed dealers dosen't require registration, and there is no reason to believe universal checks would have to be any different.

Yes and you ignore the fact that private sales are different. The government will not be able to tell if a background check is done for a private sale if they don't know who originally owned the gun.....the gun store will not sell a gun without a backgroud because of the law requiring it for all gun store sales....they can lose their license if they sell a gun without a background check.

There is every reason to know that registration is what the anti gunners want, and they will get there through universal background checks.

There you go again. Saying tha unless it's perfect, it won't work at all. That's kinda childish isn't it? Child molestation isn't stopped by laws against it. The perverts have to be caught before the law can be used against them. Most of our laws work the same way. You don't understand that?