Transgender 1st Grader Wins Civil Rights Case...

[Gadawg73]

To date no one here has offered any proof that it was the parents that talked this boy into being a girl.

Because there isn't any proof of that and their entire case falls like a house of cards without it.

I have never claimed the parents talked the boy into being a girl. I think it's possible the boy continues to think of himself as a girl because of the parents' enabling, but I can't say that with any certainty.

What I have claimed, and has remained largely ignored, is that whatever gender the boy thinks of himself as, he still has male parts. If we have decided that those with male parts are ok to go into the girl's bathroom, then segregating bathrooms is pointless and should end.

So far I haven't seen a lot of discussion about this, which is really the issue of the OP. Instead this has become a back and forth about whether the parents are doing a good job raising the child.

That is because they don't want to admit that they want to do exactly that.

I am headed down to Calder track in a few weeks.
What do you think of Go Bananas, Satan's Nation and Transgender Suzie? Which horse will pay the highest odds?

 

[Gadawg73]

Truthfully, if a person has male genitalia and wants to identify him/herself as a female - I could care less. If it makes them happy and doesn't hurt anyone else...so what.

My concern with this story, from a child psychology perspective, is that a child's sexuality and sexual identity is still being formed and is very fluid at this age. It's why little kids say they want to marry their mommies or daddies...or why they form "crushes" with same-sex friends. It doesn't mean that they are incestuous or homosexual...it means that they are LEARNING what sexuality is and what their sexual identity is. If, at this young age, when a child goes through a normal questioning phase and you, as their parent, teacher, family friend, etc. jump on that and say, "You've said you like boy clothes...you must be a transgendered female trapped in a male body!!!" and begin to support that idea as vehemently as these parents have seemed to...I wonder if you run the risk of stunting the child's natural development OUT of that phase and into what their natural sexual identity might have been?

Where did you receive your doctorate in child psychology and/or medical degree?

Where did you get yours? Why haven't you actually refuted any of my points if you actually understand things like that?

I do not spread psycho babble "from a child psychology perspective" opinions like the previous poster does.
Go ahead and look for it Moe. It ain't there.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I have never claimed the parents talked the boy into being a girl. I think it's possible the boy continues to think of himself as a girl because of the parents' enabling, but I can't say that with any certainty.

What I have claimed, and has remained largely ignored, is that whatever gender the boy thinks of himself as, he still has male parts. If we have decided that those with male parts are ok to go into the girl's bathroom, then segregating bathrooms is pointless and should end.

So far I haven't seen a lot of discussion about this, which is really the issue of the OP. Instead this has become a back and forth about whether the parents are doing a good job raising the child.

That is because they don't want to admit that they want to do exactly that.

I am headed down to Calder track in a few weeks.
What do you think of Go Bananas, Satan's Nation and Transgender Suzie? Which horse will pay the highest odds?

My guess is whichever one you bet on will lose.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Where did you receive your doctorate in child psychology and/or medical degree?

Where did you get yours? Why haven't you actually refuted any of my points if you actually understand things like that?

I do not spread psycho babble "from a child psychology perspective" opinions like the previous poster does.
Go ahead and look for it Moe. It ain't there.

They are born that way isn't an opinion from psycho babble position?

 

[Gadawg73]

That is because they don't want to admit that they want to do exactly that.

I am headed down to Calder track in a few weeks.
What do you think of Go Bananas, Satan's Nation and Transgender Suzie? Which horse will pay the highest odds?

My guess is whichever one you bet on will lose.

LOL, DAMN, maybe you are a damn psychic!

 

[Gadawg73]

Where did you get yours? Why haven't you actually refuted any of my points if you actually understand things like that?

I do not spread psycho babble "from a child psychology perspective" opinions like the previous poster does.
Go ahead and look for it Moe. It ain't there.

They are born that way isn't an opinion from psycho babble position?

Every gay and transgender folk I have ever met told me they were born that way.
Not opinion, that is what I have been told.
BY ALL OF THEM.
Well, not all of them because most of them I never asked and they never offered but everyone that I did ask they said they were born that way.
Please show me the gay person that did not want to be gay and only chose it because no one explained to them what being straight was.
Where is that person? If you can show me one that says that then you will have some evidence other than your opinion.
I could produce millions if I had to and you know it.
Gay and transgender folk do not choose who they are.
You know that and if you don't then you are a bull shitter.

 

[Montrovant]

I do not spread psycho babble "from a child psychology perspective" opinions like the previous poster does.
Go ahead and look for it Moe. It ain't there.

They are born that way isn't an opinion from psycho babble position?

Every gay and transgender folk I have ever met told me they were born that way.
Not opinion, that is what I have been told.
BY ALL OF THEM.
Well, not all of them because most of them I never asked and they never offered but everyone that I did ask they said they were born that way.
Please show me the gay person that did not want to be gay and only chose it because no one explained to them what being straight was.
Where is that person? If you can show me one that says that then you will have some evidence other than your opinion.
I could produce millions if I had to and you know it.
Gay and transgender folk do not choose who they are.
You know that and if you don't then you are a bull shitter.

Whether or not someone chooses to be gay does not prove whether they are 'born that way' or not. It could have to do with upbringing/environment as well.

 

[Montrovant]

To date no one here has offered any proof that it was the parents that talked this boy into being a girl.

Because there isn't any proof of that and their entire case falls like a house of cards without it.

I have never claimed the parents talked the boy into being a girl. I think it's possible the boy continues to think of himself as a girl because of the parents' enabling, but I can't say that with any certainty.

What I have claimed, and has remained largely ignored, is that whatever gender the boy thinks of himself as, he still has male parts. If we have decided that those with male parts are ok to go into the girl's bathroom, then segregating bathrooms is pointless and should end.

So far I haven't seen a lot of discussion about this, which is really the issue of the OP. Instead this has become a back and forth about whether the parents are doing a good job raising the child.

What you are claiming is not in dispute.
He has male parts.
We have not decided that all male boys with male parts are ok to go into the girl's bathroom.
That was decided at the school in question and the decision was not that to date.

If ANYONE with male parts is allowed to use the girl's bathroom, as I've asked before, what's the point of segregating bathrooms? If it doesn't have to do with giving those with male and female parts separate places to go, what is it for?
If it does have to do with separating those with male and female parts, but you allow someone to do it anyway, aren't you then discriminating against people based on gender (even if it's self indentifying)?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I do not spread psycho babble "from a child psychology perspective" opinions like the previous poster does.
Go ahead and look for it Moe. It ain't there.

They are born that way isn't an opinion from psycho babble position?

Every gay and transgender folk I have ever met told me they were born that way.
Not opinion, that is what I have been told.
BY ALL OF THEM.
Well, not all of them because most of them I never asked and they never offered but everyone that I did ask they said they were born that way.
Please show me the gay person that did not want to be gay and only chose it because no one explained to them what being straight was.
Where is that person? If you can show me one that says that then you will have some evidence other than your opinion.
I could produce millions if I had to and you know it.
Gay and transgender folk do not choose who they are.
You know that and if you don't then you are a bull shitter.

You haven't met many gay, or TG, people, have you?

While we are at it, why is it you are so stupid on this issue? Are you overcompensating for your own problems here?

It is entirely possible to actually know you made a choice without having to be denied a choice.

Cynthia Nixon On Being Gay: 'For Me It's A Choice'

 

[gallantwarrior]

HG, I love ya man, you know it, but what is it you see as insane?

Are you ascribing to the theory from the crackpots here that her parents made her dress as a girl?

The child does not identify as a boy. She identified as a girl. You want to "make her" be a boy?

This kid is way too young to make a decision like this! when I was that age I just wanted to play with toys and watch cartoons, I never gave a thought towards my sexual identity.

Same here but I do remember at summer camp in 1959 one of the high school female camp counselors bent over to help us with something and those tatas were in the face of this 5 year old, no bra on under that Camp TATA T shirt.
I begged to go back to Camp TATA the next year at age 6.
And I have worked alleged sexual abuse cases recently where 7 year old boys were accused of molesting 4 and 5 year old girls.
And how long have young boys been playing with dolls while we were passing the football and young girls were wanting to play baseball while the other girls were playing with the dolls?
Weird shit man but it is what it is and what we think is normal has NEVER been normal.
Same with old #66 big Gus who is now big Grace.
Guess it may be in the chicken we eat.

Playing with dolls doesn't "make" a boyminto a girl any more than a girl becomes a boy when she plays softball. If younare a boy, Having your parents dress you like a girl, treat you like a girl, and insist on everybody else consider you a girl doesn't make you a girl. It just makes you one sad, twisted little boy.

 

[mal]

HG, I love ya man, you know it, but what is it you see as insane?

Are you ascribing to the theory from the crackpots here that her parents made her dress as a girl?

The child does not identify as a boy. She identified as a girl. You want to "make her" be a boy?

This kid is way too young to make a decision like this! when I was that age I just wanted to play with toys and watch cartoons, I never gave a thought towards my sexual identity.

It's not a sexual identity, it's a gender one. This child started identifying as a girl at the time children start to identify gender.

HIS Parents started dressing HIM as a Girl and Entertaining the Absurdity in a Serious manner @ 18 Months of Age.

Now they Parade the little BOY in Drag around Deviant Award Shows for their own 15 minutes.

Fucking AWESOME.

I Predicted this Shit MANY a Year ago.

And I knew it would be you who Advocated for it.

I am Entertained that [MENTION=30646]Ravi[/MENTION] and [MENTION=20112]bodecea[/MENTION] have decided to let you Burden the Duty Solo though...



peace...

 

[Gadawg73]

When Coy goes through puberty and wants to dress and act like a boy what will his parents do?
If is the better word.
You do not teach a human how to be attracted to one sex or the other.
Shit happens.

 

[Gadawg73]

They are born that way isn't an opinion from psycho babble position?

Every gay and transgender folk I have ever met told me they were born that way.
Not opinion, that is what I have been told.
BY ALL OF THEM.
Well, not all of them because most of them I never asked and they never offered but everyone that I did ask they said they were born that way.
Please show me the gay person that did not want to be gay and only chose it because no one explained to them what being straight was.
Where is that person? If you can show me one that says that then you will have some evidence other than your opinion.
I could produce millions if I had to and you know it.
Gay and transgender folk do not choose who they are.
You know that and if you don't then you are a bull shitter.

Whether or not someone chooses to be gay does not prove whether they are 'born that way' or not. It could have to do with upbringing/environment as well.

I had a hard upbringing and that never influenced me on my sexual orientation.
NO ONE sits down and chooses their sexuality.
Did you?
If you did how long did you contemplate cock?
You do know that choice means you CONTEMPLATED ALL YOUR OPTIONS before you chose.
What was the determiner of your choice of cock or snatch?

 

[Gem]

Gadawg73 Wrote:

I do not spread psycho babble "from a child psychology perspective" opinions like the previous poster does.

I'm not quite sure why my question:

Since kids, as they grow up, are developing their gender and sexual identities...I wonder what telling/encouraging a very young child that they are a girl when physically they are a boy will do to them...especially if that child hits puberty and decides that they are really a boy after all?

is so upsetting to you...but I can't let you just deny reality because you've decided not to like it, or the way I have phrased it. It simply isn't "psycho-babble" to state that children go through stages of development as they become adults. Its called child development...if you don't like my "credentials," thats fine. Go to Amazon, or a parenting site, even, for a very basic rundown of how young children develop. Look up child sexual development - and at some point you will see discussions of how learning about gender roles and sexuality happens at a very young age and continues through adulthood.

 

[Gadawg73]

Gadawg73 Wrote:

I do not spread psycho babble "from a child psychology perspective" opinions like the previous poster does.

I'm not quite sure why my question:

Since kids, as they grow up, are developing their gender and sexual identities...I wonder what telling/encouraging a very young child that they are a girl when physically they are a boy will do to them...especially if that child hits puberty and decides that they are really a boy after all?

is so upsetting to you...but I can't let you just deny reality because you've decided not to like it, or the way I have phrased it. It simply isn't "psycho-babble" to state that children go through stages of development as they become adults. Its called child development...if you don't like my "credentials," thats fine. Go to Amazon, or a parenting site, even, for a very basic rundown of how young children develop. Look up child sexual development - and at some point you will see discussions of how learning about gender roles and sexuality happens at a very young age and continues through adulthood.

What parent told Coy he was a girl and which one encouraged him to be a girl?
Looks to me they are just accepting they Coy wants to be a girl.
I raised 3 children of my own and each one never had to be taught their gender role.
No offense but if you want to raise your kids from a book that is fine with me.
I don't and didn't and all 3 of mine are grown productive, educated and working citizens.

 

[High_Gravity]

When Coy goes through puberty and wants to dress and act like a boy what will his parents do?
If is the better word.
You do not teach a human how to be attracted to one sex or the other.
Shit happens.

See thats the thing, what if that does happen?

 

[mal]

When Coy goes through puberty and wants to dress and act like a boy what will his parents do?
If is the better word.
You do not teach a human how to be attracted to one sex or the other.
Shit happens.

See thats the thing, what if that does happen?

I would be in Full Support of Charging the Parents with Child Abuse.



peace...

 

[Montrovant]

Every gay and transgender folk I have ever met told me they were born that way.
Not opinion, that is what I have been told.
BY ALL OF THEM.
Well, not all of them because most of them I never asked and they never offered but everyone that I did ask they said they were born that way.
Please show me the gay person that did not want to be gay and only chose it because no one explained to them what being straight was.
Where is that person? If you can show me one that says that then you will have some evidence other than your opinion.
I could produce millions if I had to and you know it.
Gay and transgender folk do not choose who they are.
You know that and if you don't then you are a bull shitter.

Whether or not someone chooses to be gay does not prove whether they are 'born that way' or not. It could have to do with upbringing/environment as well.

I had a hard upbringing and that never influenced me on my sexual orientation.
NO ONE sits down and chooses their sexuality.
Did you?
If you did how long did you contemplate cock?
You do know that choice means you CONTEMPLATED ALL YOUR OPTIONS before you chose.
What was the determiner of your choice of cock or snatch?

Perhaps if you were less of a reactionary idiot about this, you'd see that I never said it was a choice. What I said was that someone who does not choose to be gay was not necessarily born that way, either. Environment may play a part in the development of their sexual orientation.

Also, QW provided a link to Cynthia Nixon saying that her being gay is a choice. Within that article were links to others which showed multiple people claiming their gayness was a choice, as well as an article which said that there is research showing that women's sexual identity can be fluid and changeable over the course of their lives.

It may well be that most gay people are born that way, but it is by no means settled science. More, the entire issue is too often viewed as simply black and white, while it likely has many shades of grey.

 

[Montrovant]

I had a hard upbringing and that never influenced me on my sexual orientation.
NO ONE sits down and chooses their sexuality.
Did you?
If you did how long did you contemplate cock?
You do know that choice means you CONTEMPLATED ALL YOUR OPTIONS before you chose.
What was the determiner of your choice of cock or snatch?

What happened in your life is not indicative of what happens in every person's life.

Further, how do you know that your upbringing didn't influence your sexual orientation?

 

[Gem]

Gadawg Wrote:

What parent told Coy he was a girl and which one encouraged him to be a girl?
Looks to me they are just accepting they Coy wants to be a girl.

I raised 3 children of my own and each one never had to be taught their gender role.
No offense but if you want to raise your kids from a book that is fine with me.
I don't and didn't and all 3 of mine are grown productive, educated and working citizens.

You don't think that by buying Coy dresses, fighting for her to be able to use the girls' bathroom at school, calling her a girl and demanding others do likewise, being very public about the entire issue isn't ENCOURAGING their child to identify as a girl? You're kidding, right? You state that none of your children ever needed to be taught their gender roles...but I'm also guessing that you didn't dress your sons in dresses when they were young. You probably never gave a daughter a buzz-cut during the hot, summer months, either. While I understand your statement that they didn't need to be "taught" their gender roles...I would argue that what you really meant was that they did not need overt instruction...because they picked up on the societal norms you used in your home...just like most other families.

The amusing thing about this discussion we've been having Gadawg, is that I have never stated that I don't think its possible that Coy is a transgendered little girl. I believe that it is possible that Coy identifies herself as female and will for the rest of her life. I think she obviously has a loving family. I don't think they are abusing Coy. I just have questions about what they are doing based on how young the child was when they began supporting/encouraging her identifying herself as a girl.

What I HAVE questioned is whether an 18-month old is developmentally able to make that determination and how the encouragement by Coy's parents and family might affect his/her ability to develop the way he/she was meant to.

While I've never made a judgement call either way - I've only raised the question...you've been very quick to jump in with insults like "psychobabble" and now, passive-aggressively insulting remarks about how I am raising my children. While I'm thrilled that your family is doing so well - my kids are pretty great too, by the way - maybe you should ask yourself why you needed to go on the attack over a simple question?