Transgender, Non-Binary, and all the Ridiculousness in Between...

[aris2chat]

Evidently you didnt do your research well enough. Your basically just guessing. You have no way of proving that transsexuals in Sweden are free from rejection and harrassment.

Hmm. OK, then it is up to you to prove me wrong.

Mark

Not really. Its up to you to prove your conclusion based on a guess is accurate.

My facts are not a guess. We can however "guess" whether acceptance is the cure for what ails the transsexual community.

And it looks like the answer is "no".

Killing, beating, bullying has never worked...

And by the looks of it, neither has acceptance. Maybe psychological help is in order?

Mark

it is a required part of the process before any transition begins

 

[aris2chat]

Killing, beating, bullying has never worked...

And by the looks of it, neither has acceptance. Maybe psychological help is in order?

Mark

Thousands of years of subjugation, a couple of years acceptance...Yet again, push them back into the closet and get rid of that freedom thingy...

I am all for freedom. I'll ask the same question I asked earlier. Should a transabled be able to remove an arm that he thinks he should not have? Or should we encourage a bulimic to keep on dieting because she believes herself to be fat?

Mark

The brain develops by the chemicals produced in our body, and all humans do not develop the same...There is no freedom if you subjugate a minority because of your perception from how your brain developed...

They say that pedophiles are born that way. Do they get their freedom as well?

Mark

No one is born a pedophile | Fox News

 

[Slade3200]

Look at the suicide rates of LGBT individuals... It's not like they are sliding off of rainbows with the intent of spreading their disease. They live and struggle with a difference that they possess that is not yet very socially acceptable, and most suffer greatly. It is a very difficult issue as I understand the "Rights" want to keep it traditional and simple but lets also not confuse the intent of the Left. They aren't trying to confuse or encourage children one way or the other, they are trying to create a more accepting and less intimidating environment for those who are in the LGBT community. I'd hope whether we are right or left we would all be in line with this goal and work together to find the best and most practical solutions.

They kill themselves because they have mental problems. You are not helping them by letting them believe what they want. Bulimics "believe" they are fat, should our help be to support them in their efforts to lose weight?

Mark

They kill themselves because they have mental issues?? Really??? So you don't think the feelings of being different, a freak, a disappointment to their family, or the laughing stock of their peers has anything to do with it. Chalk it up to a perfect system with a bunch of gay crazies so don't bother to do anything? Is that what your preaching?

 

[Slade3200]

Look at the suicide rates of LGBT individuals... It's not like they are sliding off of rainbows with the intent of spreading their disease. They live and struggle with a difference that they possess that is not yet very socially acceptable, and most suffer greatly. It is a very difficult issue as I understand the "Rights" want to keep it traditional and simple but lets also not confuse the intent of the Left. They aren't trying to confuse or encourage children one way or the other, they are trying to create a more accepting and less intimidating environment for those who are in the LGBT community. I'd hope whether we are right or left we would all be in line with this goal and work together to find the best and most practical solutions.

Many commit suicide because they have other forms of mental illness. Changing sex doesn't deal with those other forms. Some feel like there is something wrong with them. They fixate on gender reassignment thinking that will fix them. It doesn't. That was their last hope.

There she goes again, just making shit up... Why do you feel compelled to contribute to conversations about subjects that you know NOTHING about? You think LGBT people suffer from a mental illness. That disqualifies you from making any credible argument... Just turn off the computer and go watch Golden Girls or something...

If a segment of the population kills themselves at 20 times the normal rate, would you believe there is something wrong with them?

Mark

It's pretty damn obvious... I'm sorry you can't see it and make the easy excuse that it is all in their messed up heads

 

[Slade3200]

Look at the suicide rates of LGBT individuals... It's not like they are sliding off of rainbows with the intent of spreading their disease. They live and struggle with a difference that they possess that is not yet very socially acceptable, and most suffer greatly. It is a very difficult issue as I understand the "Rights" want to keep it traditional and simple but lets also not confuse the intent of the Left. They aren't trying to confuse or encourage children one way or the other, they are trying to create a more accepting and less intimidating environment for those who are in the LGBT community. I'd hope whether we are right or left we would all be in line with this goal and work together to find the best and most practical solutions.

Changing language doesn't change feelings. Just ask the black community...it doesn't matter whether we have called them African American, black, negro, colored, or any other term...language change doesn't dictate feeling change, racism has been in America and still is. I think that most people (not all) can get behind being more accepting to the LGBT community. I, for one, certainly am. However, doing that means going out there and changing what people think and feel, not what people say. Fighting the wrong battle is to set yourself up for nothing but failure.

I think it is a combo of both... Many still refer to LGBT with very nasty and degrading labels... Just as the "N" word was widely used for Blacks by the haters during and before the civil rights movement. So language does have an effect. But I do agree it needs to be much more than just language to make a difference.

My argument is that language is a reflection / expression of a person's feelings. Changing what language they use isn't going to change how they feel. Taking the "n" word, that used to be a commonplace word for referring to blacks, not a derogatory term. However, feelings back then were very racially charged against the black community. So, people imagined that if they changed what they called them it would change the feelings towards them. This has proved to be false. The feelings remain, they have just altered the language they use. The "n" word is now a derogatory term...for one group of people, but seemingly commonplace by another group. Again, language doesn't mean much...fight the right battle not the misguided one.

I understand your point... It reminds me of the "Islamic Extremist" argument where the "Right" loved the fact the the "Left" refused to say those words and they exploited the shit out of it. It amused me that they were so angered by the fact that the Administration decided to not use language that offended Muslims. I understand that the facts do support the phrase... the terrorist follow an extreme sect of the Islam religion, but WE decide what to call and label it. We don't call the KKK Christian Extremists because that would be offensive to Christians so why can't we call the terrorist something more specific like Extreme Jihadists, so we aren't offending the 100's of millions that identify themselves with Islam?

Apologies for the tangent but it goes to my point that language is important and plays a factor. In this case, creating a more inclusive environment is very tricky as it can't simply be done with laws, it has to be done with education and exposure. Changing the language, is a step towards increasing awareness, changing an old way of thinking, and redefining a group in a way to cultivate a more accepting environment.

If the KKk used Christianity to kill blacks, you'd have a point. when one says Jesus Christ" as he cuts off a black persons head, let me know.

Mark

You miss the point... It isn't about how we label the loonies.. it's about how our language effects to the innocents that have nothing to do with the actions of the extremists... The ones we need to be working with... There are a ton of alternative phrases that can be used for the terrorist besides Islamic extremist... It is a very intentional point that the right is trying to make in degrading the Islamic religion by associating their ideology with that of the extremist.

 

[Slade3200]

Look at the suicide rates of LGBT individuals... It's not like they are sliding off of rainbows with the intent of spreading their disease. They live and struggle with a difference that they possess that is not yet very socially acceptable, and most suffer greatly. It is a very difficult issue as I understand the "Rights" want to keep it traditional and simple but lets also not confuse the intent of the Left. They aren't trying to confuse or encourage children one way or the other, they are trying to create a more accepting and less intimidating environment for those who are in the LGBT community. I'd hope whether we are right or left we would all be in line with this goal and work together to find the best and most practical solutions.

Many commit suicide because they have other forms of mental illness. Changing sex doesn't deal with those other forms. Some feel like there is something wrong with them. They fixate on gender reassignment thinking that will fix them. It doesn't. That was their last hope.

That's over simplified generalization. How many transpeople do you actually know?

I can answer that... None... She just likes to talk out of her ass. Dont bother trying to get through to this one. She is hopeless

 

[TNHarley]

Gender

Noun

1. 1.
   the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).
   "traditional concepts of gender"

(typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

This is provably false. Did they ever ask you in school what American gender culture you identified with when teaching these concepts? When you were in 2nd grade (or whenever we learn pronoun usage) did they have everybody fill out a questionnaire related to how our society typically classifies masculine and feminine traits and then assign you your correct pronoun based off of your answers? Did they then have you memorize which pronoun to use with which of you classmates? Did they ever teach you to ask each person what they identified with before you used a pronoun to identify with them? The answer is no.

They told you men / boys are "he" and women / girls are "she" when replacing a proper noun with a pronoun. it is simple. It is effective. It works. I never learned in school (and neither did you by the way) that we use these pronouns based off of what a person feels, but rather what the ARE. This implies a biological rather than cultural basis.

Here is another example. Think of a newborn baby. Now your baby is a boy or a girl and there is no way that it has the faculties or knowledge to identify with a certain gender culture. Now...do we never use masculine or feminine pronouns when referring to the baby until it grows up enough to understand what it identifies with? Nope. We use the pronoun representing what the baby is biologically. If you have a baby boy and your son takes his first steps you don't go around and tell people "It just took its first step today!" You say, "He just took his first step today!"

he, she , him, her, guy, girl are all social concepts. Male and Female, which is a person sex, are biological.

Read and learn.

Brain development: Is the difference between boys and girls all in their heads? | BabyCenter


Mark

whats your point with that link?

 

[Asclepias]

I think people have started asking because obviously the world is not as binary as some would want it to be. Its complex and everchanging with too many variables and dynamics to ever give you comfortable footing due to your brainwashing. For example gender has nothing to do with your plumbing. Its what a person feels.

Some things really are binary, no matter how much those who are delusional might try to deny it. The distinction between male and female is such a thing.

Obviously you dont know what youre talking about but thanks for your opinion.

 

[martybegan]

gender is a social/culture issue. Sex would be the biological issue.
People can be whatever gender they want. People cant pick their sex. With artificial limbs or not, you are still your born sex.

A person can call themselves whatever they want, its when they want to use government to force everyone else along for the ride that I have an issue with.

What is this ride you're referring to?

If you don't get the implication of my statement, I can't help you.

 

[martybegan]

I recently watched a clip of a "non-binary transgender" person coming out to Obama during a press conference and found myself confused (no...not in that way). This really seemed to be looked favorably upon in that setting which I found mystifying. Now, I am a moderate liberal and I'm not against people trying to find out who they are or define themselves. But I've always seen gender as a biological issue...not a cultural issue, not an emotional issue, not any other than what biology you are equipped with. Why, now, are we now taking something that we previously defined biologically (do you have a penis or not), and trying to interpret that through how somebody feels, what they identify (or in this case do not identify) with, or what culture the person happens to be in?

Am I the only crazy person here that thinks that males have penises, females don't and it is as simple as that (except maybe the rare people born with both)? Why have we started asking how people feel to define their gender? I don't understand why it isn't okay for a male (or female) to identify with the opposite gender...but still be a male or female? I mean I really feel as if America nowadays has entered some sort of weird Twilight Zone type of place where fantastical, absurd things are becoming reality.

Just a small rant on what I see as the absurdity of the far left. The video of this person "coming out" to Obama is linked below.

Gender is not the same thing as biological sex i.e. Male, female, or hermaphodite. Gender is how one identifies psychologically, not physically.

It's hard for normal people to understand because we identify as our biological sex, but try to imagine that you feel like you do, either male or female- whatever you are, but your body is that of the other sex. How weird, and fucked up, and crazy would that be? It's so powerful a feeling for these people that they have surgeries and take pills to try and match their bodies to their brains.

It's like God put their souls in the wrong body.

There is more to the world and the human condition than any one person can experience and understand. If you can't accept someone for who they are, just try your best to live and let live.

There is nothing wrong with live and let live. However the current kerfluffle isn't about that, its about forcing everyone around you get on the same train you are on, and woe to anyone who doesn't want to go along for the ride.

So now you are ghey, ok..

I'm talking about the difference between tolerance and acceptance, and those who try to mix up both together via government action.

 

[ClosedCaption]

gender is a social/culture issue. Sex would be the biological issue.
People can be whatever gender they want. People cant pick their sex. With artificial limbs or not, you are still your born sex.

A person can call themselves whatever they want, its when they want to use government to force everyone else along for the ride that I have an issue with.

What is this ride you're referring to?

If you don't get the implication of my statement, I can't help you.

That seems to happen a lot when someone asks you a question. You cant ever answer. Weird

 

[martybegan]

gender is a social/culture issue. Sex would be the biological issue.
People can be whatever gender they want. People cant pick their sex. With artificial limbs or not, you are still your born sex.

A person can call themselves whatever they want, its when they want to use government to force everyone else along for the ride that I have an issue with.

What is this ride you're referring to?

If you don't get the implication of my statement, I can't help you.

That seems to happen a lot when someone asks you a question. You cant ever answer. Weird

As said in my other posts, its about tolerance vs. acceptance. Sorry I had to spell it out for you, will try using pictures next time.

 

[TNHarley]

gender is a social/culture issue. Sex would be the biological issue.
People can be whatever gender they want. People cant pick their sex. With artificial limbs or not, you are still your born sex.

A person can call themselves whatever they want, its when they want to use government to force everyone else along for the ride that I have an issue with.

What is this ride you're referring to?

If you don't get the implication of my statement, I can't help you.

That seems to happen a lot when someone asks you a question. You cant ever answer. Weird

As said in my other posts, its about tolerance vs. acceptance. Sorry I had to spell it out for you, will try using pictures next time.

sometimes I wonder if he is a troll or just obtuse as shit.

 

[martybegan]

A person can call themselves whatever they want, its when they want to use government to force everyone else along for the ride that I have an issue with.

What is this ride you're referring to?

If you don't get the implication of my statement, I can't help you.

That seems to happen a lot when someone asks you a question. You cant ever answer. Weird

As said in my other posts, its about tolerance vs. acceptance. Sorry I had to spell it out for you, will try using pictures next time.

sometimes I wonder if he is a troll or just obtuse as shit.

My guess is a obtuse as shit troll.

 

[ClosedCaption]

gender is a social/culture issue. Sex would be the biological issue.
People can be whatever gender they want. People cant pick their sex. With artificial limbs or not, you are still your born sex.

A person can call themselves whatever they want, its when they want to use government to force everyone else along for the ride that I have an issue with.

What is this ride you're referring to?

If you don't get the implication of my statement, I can't help you.

That seems to happen a lot when someone asks you a question. You cant ever answer. Weird

As said in my other posts, its about tolerance vs. acceptance. Sorry I had to spell it out for you, will try using pictures next time.

And what is the ride they are taking you on? Are they making tolerate it or accept it?

 

[martybegan]

A person can call themselves whatever they want, its when they want to use government to force everyone else along for the ride that I have an issue with.

What is this ride you're referring to?

If you don't get the implication of my statement, I can't help you.

That seems to happen a lot when someone asks you a question. You cant ever answer. Weird

As said in my other posts, its about tolerance vs. acceptance. Sorry I had to spell it out for you, will try using pictures next time.

And what is the ride they are taking you on? Are they making tolerate it or accept it?

Right now progressives are all about forcing acceptance, not tolerance.

 

[Asclepias]

What is this ride you're referring to?

If you don't get the implication of my statement, I can't help you.

That seems to happen a lot when someone asks you a question. You cant ever answer. Weird

As said in my other posts, its about tolerance vs. acceptance. Sorry I had to spell it out for you, will try using pictures next time.

And what is the ride they are taking you on? Are they making tolerate it or accept it?

Right now progressives are all about forcing acceptance, not tolerance.

I dont think progressives care about your acceptance. They just want to make it difficult for you to affect people with your intolerance.

 

[martybegan]

If you don't get the implication of my statement, I can't help you.

That seems to happen a lot when someone asks you a question. You cant ever answer. Weird

As said in my other posts, its about tolerance vs. acceptance. Sorry I had to spell it out for you, will try using pictures next time.

And what is the ride they are taking you on? Are they making tolerate it or accept it?

Right now progressives are all about forcing acceptance, not tolerance.

I dont think progressives care about your acceptance. They just want to make it difficult for you to affect people with your intolerance.

Bullshit. its all about forced acceptance. Tolerance is live and let live, which is the furthest thing from progressive's minds.

"You will be made to bend a knee, and its not about the bend or the knee, but the fact they can make you do it"

 

[Asclepias]

That seems to happen a lot when someone asks you a question. You cant ever answer. Weird

As said in my other posts, its about tolerance vs. acceptance. Sorry I had to spell it out for you, will try using pictures next time.

And what is the ride they are taking you on? Are they making tolerate it or accept it?

Right now progressives are all about forcing acceptance, not tolerance.

I dont think progressives care about your acceptance. They just want to make it difficult for you to affect people with your intolerance.

Bullshit. its all about forced acceptance. Tolerance is live and let live, which is the furthest thing from progressive's minds.

"You will be made to bend a knee, and its not about the bend or the knee, but the fact they can make you do it"

Those two words together dont even make sense. You cant force someone to accept anything. You can only punish them for acting on their intolerance which is always a wonderful thing to do to the retards.

 

[ClosedCaption]

That seems to happen a lot when someone asks you a question. You cant ever answer. Weird

As said in my other posts, its about tolerance vs. acceptance. Sorry I had to spell it out for you, will try using pictures next time.

And what is the ride they are taking you on? Are they making tolerate it or accept it?

Right now progressives are all about forcing acceptance, not tolerance.

I dont think progressives care about your acceptance. They just want to make it difficult for you to affect people with your intolerance.

Bullshit. its all about forced acceptance. Tolerance is live and let live, which is the furthest thing from progressive's minds.

"You will be made to bend a knee, and its not about the bend or the knee, but the fact they can make you do it"

What are you being made to do that affects you in any way?