Trayvon Martin And The Right To Be Left Alone...

[Bigfoot]

This was my take before Al Sharpton came to town and the family started selling DVDs:
1. Man with gun shoots and kills young man.
Then the media started posting 6th grade photos of Martin instead of the many they had of him at age 17 and in the 12th grade.
2. Incident report clearly states evidence collected and sent to crime lab. No charges to date. Would I be upset over this if I was the family? Hell yes and did they do anything wrong yelling about that? Hell no. Would have done the same thing. But they were told that the crime lab reports take months and months sometimes. Should they have charged him. Probably yes but that MEANS NOTHING.

you left out a lot.. no surprises... how about

man kills UNARMED 17 year old kid.
police don't properly investigate
lead detective isn't permitted to file charges like he wanted to
the boy is left as a john doe for 3 days, even though the police could ID him. but is drug tested and alcohol tested.
accused, who was told there was no need for him to follow the kid, pursues anyway.

we don't know what happens next...

but we know the kid is dead and the accused is not injured and is able to walk into the police car... there is no blood on his clothing.

his clothing is not taken for forensic investigation
he is not examined forensically to ascertain if he showed any indication of having defended himself.

people like al sharpton, and the media, justifiably, expect the circumstances to be investigated....

they finally are.

charges are brought.. whcih may or may not be able to be substantiated due to failure of evidence gathering.

Bullshit.

 

[Katzndogz]

While it sucks trayvon got shot. If he hadn't resorted to violence to solve his problem he would be alive today.
I know I for one would not attack someone for following me. I would have called the police...not my girlfriend.

Assuming he attacked Zimmerman.

We dont know yet.

That may be true,but I find it hard to believe that Zimmerman just walked up to trayvon and shot him. And Zimmermans wounds support the hypothesis that trayvon attacked him.
And again,if trayvon was worried about being followed,why didnt he dial 911?
Thats what most law abiding citizens would have done.

A juvenile likely would call Dad. That's what was disturbing about this case and the claim that Trayvon was frightened. A 17 year old boy just isn't going to call his girlfriend to tell her what a fraidy cat he is. He might call her to say "I'm gonna have to bust this guys ass" but not to tell a girlfriend that he's scared of a chubby mexican half a foot shorter than he is.

 

[Ariux]

A juvenile likely would call Dad. That's what was disturbing about this case and the claim that Trayvon was frightened. A 17 year old boy just isn't going to call his girlfriend to tell her what a fraidy cat he is. He might call her to say "I'm gonna have to bust this guys ass" but not to tell a girlfriend that he's scared of a chubby mexican half a foot shorter than he is.

A reasonable person can conclude several things. First, if Trayvon said anything to the girl that would make him look bad, we'd never hear about it, through the chain of the girlfriend and the lawyer. Second, a 17yr-old no-limit-nigga would not tell his girlfriend that he's scared. The content of the phone conversation with the girl is essentially worthless for the Prosecution. But, for the Defense, it's consistent with the Trayvon confronting Zimmerman, not the other way around.

 

[Katzndogz]

An intelligent 17 year old no-limit-nigga would tell his girlfriend he's going to kick some ass THEN call Dad and ask for back up.

According to Zimmerman, they were fighting, his shirt was pulled up and Trayvon saw the gun and went for it. Assuming that Trayvon Martin was just an innocent and unarmed kid going to the store for skittles, there was no way for Zimmerman to know that.

 

[Ravi]

If someone followed and then chased me, I'd take action.

Dick Tuck is a criminal

How many times do I have to point out that you are not allowed to attack someone because they ask you a question. You can just ignore them & not reply.

Likewise you can't attack someone for following you or because they have a gun. Open carry guns is legal in Florida.

You can if you feel threatened. In Florida.

 

[Ravi]

This was my take before Al Sharpton came to town and the family started selling DVDs:
1. Man with gun shoots and kills young man.
Then the media started posting 6th grade photos of Martin instead of the many they had of him at age 17 and in the 12th grade.
2. Incident report clearly states evidence collected and sent to crime lab. No charges to date. Would I be upset over this if I was the family? Hell yes and did they do anything wrong yelling about that? Hell no. Would have done the same thing. But they were told that the crime lab reports take months and months sometimes. Should they have charged him. Probably yes but that MEANS NOTHING.

Interesting that you let the media dictate your views. But not surprising.

 

[dilloduck]

If someone followed and then chased me, I'd take action.

Dick Tuck is a criminal

How many times do I have to point out that you are not allowed to attack someone because they ask you a question. You can just ignore them & not reply.

Likewise you can't attack someone for following you or because they have a gun. Open carry guns is legal in Florida.

You can if you feel threatened. In Florida.

Damn Ravi----you must be attackin people all the time.

 

[Ravi]

Dick Tuck is a criminal

How many times do I have to point out that you are not allowed to attack someone because they ask you a question. You can just ignore them & not reply.

Likewise you can't attack someone for following you or because they have a gun. Open carry guns is legal in Florida.

You can if you feel threatened. In Florida.

Damn Ravi----you must be attackin people all the time.

Dude, I'm surrounded by rightwingloons.

 

[WorldWatcher]

One question I have is, what was Trayvon doing, for Zimmerman to be so afraid of him that he did not want to give out his home address to the dispatcher?
Trayvon had to be doing something that made him want to meet in front of the mailboxes, instead of his home.

1. The next sentence is that he didn't know (at that time) where the kid was, so Zimmerman would have had no idea at that time. Martin could have been sneeking up on Zimmerman or Martin would have been on the phone with his girlfriend not doing anything.

2. Zimmerman didn't want to meet in front of the mailboxes, that was suggested by the dispatcher and Zimmerman disapproved that and instead requested that they contact him via cell phone.


>>>>

 

[WorldWatcher]

We do know that Martin was suspended from school when this happened.
For many violations. Having a bag full of women's jewlery with a long screw driver in his locker. "A friend gave it to me" Who was that friend? "I forgot"
You folks sure are not very bright.
Choir boys do not get suspended from school, have a bag full of unknown women's jewlery in your possession.

You left out the part where the police checked the jewelry and none of it was stolen.


>>>>

 

[WorldWatcher]

One question I have is, what was Trayvon doing, for Zimmerman to be so afraid of him that he did not want to give out his home address to the dispatcher?
Trayvon had to be doing something that made him want to meet in front of the mailboxes, instead of his home.

How could anything Martin have done made Zimmerman AFRAID during the call? He was nowhere NEAR Zimmerman! And Zimmerman had a gun.

You have no proof one way or the other, as to where Trayvon was. The court will find this out.
How are you so certain that Tayvon was nowhere near Zimmerman?
Why do think that Zimmerman did not want to meet in front of his place and wanted to meet in front of the mailboxes?
This will also come out in the trial.

Zimmerman didn't want to meet in front of the mail boxes, check the audio or review a transcipt. That was suggested by the dispatcher and Zimmerman ultimately suggested and agreed to another option.


>>>>

 

[KissMy]

This was my take before Al Sharpton came to town and the family started selling DVDs:
1. Man with gun shoots and kills young man.
Then the media started posting 6th grade photos of Martin instead of the many they had of him at age 17 and in the 12th grade.
2. Incident report clearly states evidence collected and sent to crime lab. No charges to date. Would I be upset over this if I was the family? Hell yes and did they do anything wrong yelling about that? Hell no. Would have done the same thing. But they were told that the crime lab reports take months and months sometimes. Should they have charged him. Probably yes but that MEANS NOTHING.

Interesting that you let the media dictate your views. But not surprising.

Reasonably fear of imminent death or great bodily harm is the standard.

Carrying a gun, following & asking questions does not meet the legal standard in Florida.

We know there was no mention of gun over the phone to Martins girlfriend. No other witness heard mention of gun or saw a gun prior to the gunshot. That rules out Zimmerman starting the fight by threatening Martin with his gun.

There was no evidence of torn clothing, bruises, scratches or marks on Martins body other than the gunshot wound. That rules out Zimmerman striking Martin first.

Zimmerman has injuries consistent with Martin striking him first. Witnesses & 911 tape have Zimmerman screaming for his life as Martin attacked him.

 

[WorldWatcher]

The prosecution is going to try and keep out the prior break ins there in the community as irrelevant to the killing. I would also do that if I was the prosecutor as that would be my job.
But as soon as the 911 tapes come in then that opens the door to allow all of the prior break ins and all of those poilce reports. But then that also allows in all of the 911 nuisance calls that Zimmerman made and I guarantee the prosecution will have numerous cops to testify how many of those calls Zimmerman made were false alarms.
But the jury will most likely see the reports and dispositions of all of the break ins there and that helps Zimmerman tremendously. Additionally, is it possible Martin was casing the neighborhood? Well that is a double edged sword for the defense as there were NO burglary tools on Martin so if they go down that road they have little to go on other than his route took a very long time but that is not evidence of any guilt. Could have been other calls he made other than his girl friend and maybe she was helping him.
But the evidence does not look like it is there for that. I find it very hard for the defense to pin that on Martin but the prior break ins do give Zimmerman a reason to be there and the police never told him "Do not do that".

In most areas, Neighborhood Watch volunteers must complete a mandatory training. I suspect that Zimmerman participated in one of these trainings, as well. In these training programs, it is made clear that Neighborhood Watch volunteers are to WATCH and REPORT. They are not to become directly involved in criminal activity or intervene directly.
The police department dispatcher is not responsible to tell each neighborhood watcher during each report that they are not to directly intervene. The Neighborhood Watch volunteers have already been trained, and this is generally emphasized on a repeated basis.

Thus, I suspect that the Sanford PD already delivered the message about non-intervention, multiple times. Mr. Zimmerman chose, for whatever reason, to disregard that message.

In fact, I bet that he even has a copy of this manual since it is the standard for training these kinds of groups:

https://www.bja.gov/Publications/NSA_NW_Manual.pdf (See highlighted section on page 22).

If your target is mobile and moving how does one "watch and report" if they do not follow?
Where is there ANY evidence Zimmerman intervened?
Is it possible he didn't and Martin was the one that FIRST intervened?
Fact is watching and reporting INVOLVES pursuing your target if that target is mobile.
You can pursue, watch anbd report WITHOUT intervening easily and that is usually what happens. How does one watch and report without moving?

Was "target" a slip of the tongue?

Is it possible Martin was the one that FIRST intervened? Yes.

Is it possible Zimmerman was the one that FIRST intervened? Yes.


No information is available to the public that supports either one.


>>>>

 

[WorldWatcher]

Zimmerman lied to police when he told them that it was his voice that was recorded calling for help.
Why?

Not necessarily true. There are conflicting reports as to whose voice is on the tape.



>>>>

 

[WorldWatcher]

A kid going out at 7 pm to get a can of tea and some candy. A man with a background that never should have allowed him to have a concealed carry permit. The man follows the kid. The kid becomes aware of it, and is worried. The police advise the man to not make contact with the kid. And a couple of minutes later, the kid is dead. And we have only Zimmerman's words for what happened in those couple of minutes.

So, had Zimmerman not had a gun, the kid would be alive. Error #1, that Zimmerman was given the permit.

Had Zimmerman not followed the kid, the kid would be alive. As the article stated, what right did Zimmerman have to follow the kid? Why did he not simply advise the police and cease and desist?
Error #2

The Police told Zimmerman not to contact the kid. But Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and looked for the kid anyway. Error #3 on Zimmerman's part.

The kid went to the store for some tea and candy. Error #1

The kid did not run as fast as possible once he realized that he was being followed. Error #2

Since we still do not know what really took place at the confrontation, so we do not know errors were there.

Seems to me that based on the errors noted, that Zimmerman's were of a much more serious nature than those of the kid's.

While it sucks trayvon got shot. If he hadn't resorted to violence to solve his problem he would be alive today.
I know I for one would not attack someone for following me. I would have called the police...not my girlfriend.

1. There is no evidence Martin resorted to violence, it could just as easily been Zimmerman resorted to violence to solve his problem. Zimmerman himself said on the tape that Martin was running away, therefore demonstrating an desire to leave the situation.

2. He didn't call his girlfriend, she called him.



>>>>

 

[Ravi]

This was my take before Al Sharpton came to town and the family started selling DVDs:
1. Man with gun shoots and kills young man.
Then the media started posting 6th grade photos of Martin instead of the many they had of him at age 17 and in the 12th grade.
2. Incident report clearly states evidence collected and sent to crime lab. No charges to date. Would I be upset over this if I was the family? Hell yes and did they do anything wrong yelling about that? Hell no. Would have done the same thing. But they were told that the crime lab reports take months and months sometimes. Should they have charged him. Probably yes but that MEANS NOTHING.

Interesting that you let the media dictate your views. But not surprising.

Reasonably fear of imminent death or great bodily harm is the standard.

Carrying a gun, following & asking questions does not meet the legal standard in Florida.

We know there was no mention of gun over the phone to Martins girlfriend. No other witness heard mention of gun or saw a gun prior to the gunshot. That rules out Zimmerman starting the fight by threatening Martin with his gun.

There was no evidence of torn clothing, bruises, scratches or marks on Martins body other than the gunshot wound. That rules out Zimmerman striking Martin first.

Zimmerman has injuries consistent with Martin striking him first. Witnesses & 911 tape have Zimmerman screaming for his life as Martin attacked him.

The fuck it does if you feel threatened. The rest of your post is fantasy.

 

[KissMy]

Zimmerman lied to police when he told them that it was his voice that was recorded calling for help.
Why?

Not necessarily true. There are conflicting reports as to whose voice is on the tape.>>>>

There is no conflict with the eyewitnesses. Ear witness voice ID is not credible. Full adult male voice pitch is attained at an average age of 15 years. Zimmerman has a high pitched voice. Judging by Martins fathers voice I would say his is lower pitched.

 

[dilloduck]

We do know that Martin was suspended from school when this happened.
For many violations. Having a bag full of women's jewlery with a long screw driver in his locker. "A friend gave it to me" Who was that friend? "I forgot"
You folks sure are not very bright.
Choir boys do not get suspended from school, have a bag full of unknown women's jewlery in your possession.

You left out the part where the police checked the jewelry and none of it was stolen.


>>>>

You left out that none of it was REPORTED as stolen.

 

[WorldWatcher]

How many times do I have to point out that you are not allowed to attack someone because they ask you a question. You can just ignore them & not reply.

Very true. If Martin asked Zimmerman a question, Zimmerman would not have any justification for attacking Martin. If Zimmerman asked Martin a question, Martin would not have any justification for attacking Zimmerman.

Likewise you can't attack someone for following you or because they have a gun. Open carry guns is legal in Florida.

Also true.

However if they threatened you with a gun, then under Florida Statutes (784.011) that would be assault and you would be authorized to defend yourself statutes 776.012 (self defense) and 776.032 (commonly called the Stand Your Ground) provisions.

>>>>

Well there is absolutely no proof that Zimmerman started the attack by pulling his gun on Martin. Martins girlfriend did not hear anything about gun while on the phone with Martin & none of the other witnesses saw a gun heard anything about a gun until after the shot was fired.

I've been the one pointing out to BOTH sides that there is no absolute proof made available to the public yet, there may be, there may not be. The prosecution hasn't presented it's case yet.

At this point either one could have initiated hostilities.

Likewise, there is absolutely no proof that Zimmerman started the attack by hitting Martin. Since Martin's body had no marks or bruises of any kind on it. Martin had no just cause to feel threatened if he was not struck by Zimmerman or had a gun pulled on him. If there is no legal threat, then Martin was not justified to "Stand His Ground".

Zimmerman would not have had to "hit" Martin to be in the process of committing assault under Floridat Statute 784.011.

Another fact that gets glossed over is that Martin was from a broken home. Children from broken homes are nine times more likely to commit a violent crime than others. Judging by Martin's school record, he was clearly on a downward spiral.

The fact that his parents are divorced it irrelevant to the case.

One fact that is relevant is that Martin already demonstrated that he was trying to flee the situation and that was reported by Zimmerman.


>>>>

 

[KissMy]

Interesting that you let the media dictate your views. But not surprising.

Reasonably fear of imminent death or great bodily harm is the standard.

Carrying a gun, following & asking questions does not meet the legal standard in Florida.

We know there was no mention of gun over the phone to Martins girlfriend. No other witness heard mention of gun or saw a gun prior to the gunshot. That rules out Zimmerman starting the fight by threatening Martin with his gun.

There was no evidence of torn clothing, bruises, scratches or marks on Martins body other than the gunshot wound. That rules out Zimmerman striking Martin first.

Zimmerman has injuries consistent with Martin striking him first. Witnesses & 911 tape have Zimmerman screaming for his life as Martin attacked him.

The fuck it does if you feel threatened. The rest of your post is fantasy.

(1) - You are not allowed to attack someone because they followed you.

(2) - Open carry guns is legal in Florida so you are not allowed to attack someone because they have a gun.

(3) - You are not allowed to attack someone because they ask you a question.

You fail to show a credible threat. Reasonably fear of imminent death or great bodily harm.