Trayvon Martin And The Right To Be Left Alone...

[Mr.Nick]

are you aware that whereas your assumptions all may be correct...they are nothing but assumptions? The only fact yoiu satted is that zimmerman shot martin. But no one denies that.

i understand...

But in what universe did zimmerman have the right to pursue martin and why??

The 911 operator told zimmerman to back off - which he obviously didn't...

The recent 911 tapes sound like zimmerman was hunting martin.

Zimmerman never said martin was doing anything wrong - all he said was "he looked suspicious."

do you go around shooting "suspicious looking people?"

your arguments are pretty damn weak.

WOW.... They seem to be pretty strong when I'm destroying progressives - now they're weak??

 

[Foxfyre]

Zimmerman is guilty of murder and this is coming from a conservative Libertarian...

Zimmerman didn't have to shoot Martin,

We dont know yet. How do you know?


hell Zimmerman didn't have to confront Martin..

We dont know that he did. How do you know?

This incident was completely unnecessary and it was Zimmermans actions that made this event occur..

Yes, his actions initiated it. No one denies that. However, his actions of "stalking" may have given Treyvon a reason to confront HIM. That changes everything. We dont know. How do you know for sure?

Martin wasn't doing anything wrong....

We dont know if he was or wasnt. How do you know?

Martin was just walking down the street for god sakes..

We dont know that for sure yet. How do you know for sure?

Are you aware that whereas your assumptions all may be correct...they are nothing but assumptions? The only fact yoiu satted is that Zimmerman shot Martin. But no one denies that.

I understand...

But in what universe did Zimmerman have the right to pursue Martin and why??

The 911 operator told Zimmerman to back off - which he obviously didn't...

The recent 911 tapes sound like Zimmerman was hunting Martin.

Zimmerman never said Martin was doing anything wrong - all he said was "he looked suspicious."

Do you go around shooting "suspicious looking people?"

The same universe in which I have followed a suspicious vehicle in a neighborhood. The same universe in which our own neighborhood watch patrol followed a kid home and confronted him and his parents after he was seen putting firecrackers in mail boxes. The same universe in which citizens choose to be proactive in their own safety and the right to not have their property stolen and/or vandalized. The same universe in which I myself have reported suspicious activity. See my immediately previous post.

The 911 operator told Zimmerman that he did not need to follow Martin. That could be interpreted as Zimmerman did not need to put himself at risk as much as anything else. The Sheriff's Dept. told me essentially the same thing when I was following that suspcious vehicle. Don't put myself at risk. And they chastised my neighbor who chased down that vehicle and confronted the driver. Turned out he was a UPS driver using a rented truck because the UPS truck was in for repairs. But we had had a lot of burglaries in our neighborhood. . . . .

And you do not know whether Zimmerman's version that he was returning to his vehicle when attacked by Martin is the correct version. The police at the scene, given what they saw, thought it was very plausible.

We do not know what happened. It is wrong to accuse and attempt to destroy somebody just because we want them to be gulty.

 

[Full-Auto]

i understand...

But in what universe did zimmerman have the right to pursue martin and why??

The 911 operator told zimmerman to back off - which he obviously didn't...

The recent 911 tapes sound like zimmerman was hunting martin.

Zimmerman never said martin was doing anything wrong - all he said was "he looked suspicious."

do you go around shooting "suspicious looking people?"

your arguments are pretty damn weak.

WOW.... They seem to be pretty strong when I'm destroying progressives - now they're weak??

We are talking the martin case.

With the moral of the story being never assault a man packing heat, you end up dead.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Are you aware that whereas your assumptions all may be correct...they are nothing but assumptions? The only fact yoiu satted is that Zimmerman shot Martin. But no one denies that.

I understand...

But in what universe did Zimmerman have the right to pursue Martin and why??

We dont know that he did. He claims to have not. His voice on the tape sounded as if he stoipped running/walking fast

The 911 operator told Zimmerman to back off - which he obviously didn't...

Not "obviuously didnt". He claims to have stopped. Wait for proof that he didnt. None has been presented yet.

The recent 911 tapes sound like Zimmerman was hunting Martin.

No they didnt. They sounded like an overzealous community watchman.

Zimmerman never said Martin was doing anything wrong - all he said was "he looked suspicious."

So? He claims Martin came after him. No proof one way or another to make any judgement call yet.

Do you go around shooting "suspicious looking people?"

You are still using pure assumptions to make your case.

I get it. If your assumptions are correct, Zimmerman should rot in hell.

But there has yet to be any evidence presented to the public that proves those assumptions correct.

No, I don't want Zimmerman to rot in hell...

I don't believe Zimmerman is a cold blooded killer, I believe hes a delusional person with an authoritarian complex...

But that doesn't mean hes right or shouldn't be held responsible...

I'll tell you this much - there is no way they will convict him on 2nd degree murder...

 

[Mr.Nick]

your arguments are pretty damn weak.

WOW.... They seem to be pretty strong when I'm destroying progressives - now they're weak??

We are talking the martin case.

With the moral of the story being never assault a man packing heat, you end up dead.

You cant kill someone for hitting you...

Not to mention Zimmerman was the one who confronted Martin - Martin wasn't doing anything wrong.

Martin was a kid walking down the street eating candy talking to his girlfriend...

He wasn't doing anything wrong....

If he was doing something that warranted a call to the police I would agree with you. But the kid was just walking down the street..

None of this would have happened if Zimmerman minded his own damn business..

A kid was killed because some paranoid idiot couldn't mind his own damn business pretty much.

 

[Foxfyre]

WOW.... They seem to be pretty strong when I'm destroying progressives - now they're weak??

We are talking the martin case.

With the moral of the story being never assault a man packing heat, you end up dead.

You cant kill someone for hitting you...

Not to mention Zimmerman was the one who confronted Martin - Martin wasn't doing anything wrong.

Martin was a kid walking down the street eating candy talking to his girlfriend...

He wasn't doing anything wrong....

If he was doing something that warranted a call to the police I would agree with you. But the kid was just walking down the street..

None of this would have happened if Zimmerman minded his own damn business..

A kid was killed because some paranoid idiot couldn't mind his own damn business pretty much.

Well you are entitled to your opinion. I don't have the same degree of clairvoyance and ability to see exactly what happened when I wasn't there.

I do, however, have the ability to know that it is wrong to accuse, blame, and defame somebody when we do not know what happened.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Are you aware that whereas your assumptions all may be correct...they are nothing but assumptions? The only fact yoiu satted is that Zimmerman shot Martin. But no one denies that.

I understand...

But in what universe did Zimmerman have the right to pursue Martin and why??

The 911 operator told Zimmerman to back off - which he obviously didn't...

The recent 911 tapes sound like Zimmerman was hunting Martin.

Zimmerman never said Martin was doing anything wrong - all he said was "he looked suspicious."

Do you go around shooting "suspicious looking people?"

The same universe in which I have followed a suspicious vehicle in a neighborhood. The same universe in which our own neighborhood watch patrol followed a kid home and confronted him and his parents after he was seen putting firecrackers in mail boxes. The same universe in which citizens choose to be proactive in their own safety and the right to not have their property stolen and/or vandalized. The same universe in which I myself have reported suspicious activity. See my immediately previous post.

The 911 operator told Zimmerman that he did not need to follow Martin. That could be interpreted as Zimmerman did not need to put himself at risk as much as anything else. The Sheriff's Dept. told me essentially the same thing when I was following that suspcious vehicle. Don't put myself at risk. And they chastised my neighbor who chased down that vehicle and confronted the driver. Turned out he was a UPS driver using a rented truck because the UPS truck was in for repairs. But we had had a lot of burglaries in our neighborhood. . . . .

And you do not know whether Zimmerman's version that he was returning to his vehicle when attacked by Martin is the correct version. The police at the scene, given what they saw, thought it was very plausible.

We do not know what happened. It is wrong to accuse and attempt to destroy somebody just because we want them to be gulty.

You're a fucking lunatic....

Earth to dumbass - guess what??? kids do dumb shit like put fireworks in mailboxes...

You must have a pathetic life if you're stalking teenagers and following random cars your fucked up brain sees as "suspicious."

You're the type of people I literally hate - you're always looking to bust someone...

How's this - mind your own fucking business...

What others do is none of your concern - especially kids being kids and people driving cars...

 

[Mr.Nick]

We are talking the martin case.

With the moral of the story being never assault a man packing heat, you end up dead.

You cant kill someone for hitting you...

Not to mention Zimmerman was the one who confronted Martin - Martin wasn't doing anything wrong.

Martin was a kid walking down the street eating candy talking to his girlfriend...

He wasn't doing anything wrong....

If he was doing something that warranted a call to the police I would agree with you. But the kid was just walking down the street..

None of this would have happened if Zimmerman minded his own damn business..

A kid was killed because some paranoid idiot couldn't mind his own damn business pretty much.

Well you are entitled to your opinion. I don't have the same degree of clairvoyance and ability to see exactly what happened when I wasn't there.

I do, however, have the ability to know that it is wrong to accuse, blame, and defame somebody when we do not know what happened.

Oh I can tell you what happened - Martin DIDN'T HAVE A WEAPON and Zimmerman DID...

What do you think happened???

 

[Foxfyre]

I understand...

But in what universe did Zimmerman have the right to pursue Martin and why??

The 911 operator told Zimmerman to back off - which he obviously didn't...

The recent 911 tapes sound like Zimmerman was hunting Martin.

Zimmerman never said Martin was doing anything wrong - all he said was "he looked suspicious."

Do you go around shooting "suspicious looking people?"

The same universe in which I have followed a suspicious vehicle in a neighborhood. The same universe in which our own neighborhood watch patrol followed a kid home and confronted him and his parents after he was seen putting firecrackers in mail boxes. The same universe in which citizens choose to be proactive in their own safety and the right to not have their property stolen and/or vandalized. The same universe in which I myself have reported suspicious activity. See my immediately previous post.

The 911 operator told Zimmerman that he did not need to follow Martin. That could be interpreted as Zimmerman did not need to put himself at risk as much as anything else. The Sheriff's Dept. told me essentially the same thing when I was following that suspcious vehicle. Don't put myself at risk. And they chastised my neighbor who chased down that vehicle and confronted the driver. Turned out he was a UPS driver using a rented truck because the UPS truck was in for repairs. But we had had a lot of burglaries in our neighborhood. . . . .

And you do not know whether Zimmerman's version that he was returning to his vehicle when attacked by Martin is the correct version. The police at the scene, given what they saw, thought it was very plausible.

We do not know what happened. It is wrong to accuse and attempt to destroy somebody just because we want them to be gulty.

You're a fucking lunatic....

Earth to dumbass - guess what??? kids do dumb shit like put fireworks in mailboxes...

You must have a pathetic life if you're stalking teenagers and following random cars your fucked up brain sees as "suspicious."

You're the type of people I literally hate - you're always looking to bust someone...

How's this - mind your own fucking business...

What others do is none of your concern - especially kids being kids and people driving cars...

When the mailbox is mine that is being damaged, it is my business.

Again you are entitled to your opinion including your opinion of me.

Please do not move into our neighborhood, however. We don't need people who think like you.

 

[Mr.Nick]

The same universe in which I have followed a suspicious vehicle in a neighborhood. The same universe in which our own neighborhood watch patrol followed a kid home and confronted him and his parents after he was seen putting firecrackers in mail boxes. The same universe in which citizens choose to be proactive in their own safety and the right to not have their property stolen and/or vandalized. The same universe in which I myself have reported suspicious activity. See my immediately previous post.

The 911 operator told Zimmerman that he did not need to follow Martin. That could be interpreted as Zimmerman did not need to put himself at risk as much as anything else. The Sheriff's Dept. told me essentially the same thing when I was following that suspcious vehicle. Don't put myself at risk. And they chastised my neighbor who chased down that vehicle and confronted the driver. Turned out he was a UPS driver using a rented truck because the UPS truck was in for repairs. But we had had a lot of burglaries in our neighborhood. . . . .

And you do not know whether Zimmerman's version that he was returning to his vehicle when attacked by Martin is the correct version. The police at the scene, given what they saw, thought it was very plausible.

We do not know what happened. It is wrong to accuse and attempt to destroy somebody just because we want them to be gulty.

You're a fucking lunatic....

Earth to dumbass - guess what??? kids do dumb shit like put fireworks in mailboxes...

You must have a pathetic life if you're stalking teenagers and following random cars your fucked up brain sees as "suspicious."

You're the type of people I literally hate - you're always looking to bust someone...

How's this - mind your own fucking business...

What others do is none of your concern - especially kids being kids and people driving cars...

When the mailbox is mine that is being damaged, it is my business.

Again you are entitled to your opinion including your opinion of me.

Please do not move into our neighborhood, however. We don't need people who think like you.

No you want spies living in your neighborhood - people who peep through windows to make sure you have the correct light bulbs and correct smoke alarms....

Trust me I would have no interest in living in your totalitarian neighborhood...

So what - big deal your mailbox got blown up... Let me guess you pressed charges too?

Of course you fucked up the lives of a bunch of teenagers over a 20 dollar mailbox... The kids probably got charged with felony arson and criminal damage to property while your authoritarian ass gloats about it....

 

[sitarro]

The author is actually addressing the issue in an wider overall sense. It's not just about this specific incident. It's more than that. I really hope people read the entire article.

I did, and it's a good article. But the underlying right to just be able to take a walk without being profiled is what's profound about it. Everyone should have a right to just take a walk or drive their car, without being profiled because of skin color or wearing a hoodie. For all Zimmerman knew, Martin's hoodie could have said Stanford or MIT on it.

When I was younger in the early 70s, I knew that if I wore my hair long......... below my shoulders, I would be profiled as a drug user, hippie, lazy...... etc. I didn't care, I wore it that way anyway. When my car broke down in Ocean Springs, Mississippi, I took the alternator off at the motel and walked 3 miles to an auto parts store. Even though I was wearing a straw cowboy hat, I was honked at, flipped off and yelled at........ when I arrived at the auto parts store the guy behind the counter said "I ain't got that part boy". I told him that I hadn't told him what the part that I needed was. He said ''It don't matter boy, get the hell out of here". I was whistled at and called "hey baby!" in a bar/restaurant by some rednecks....... I left the bar rather than confronting them and getting my ass killed. Now, red neck musicians have long hair.

The hooded sweatshirt is worn by thugs and criminals, Trayvon knew that, that is who he emulated.It is the perfect thing to wear if you are committing a crime. He wanted to be profiled as a badass that you shouldn't fuck with. He was successful, he just didn't realize his victim might just be carrying a weapon.

 

[Gadawg73]

The investigator at the bond hearing today "There were lacerations on the back of Zimmerman's head."

That puts that one to rest.

 

[Gadawg73]

You're a fucking lunatic....

Earth to dumbass - guess what??? kids do dumb shit like put fireworks in mailboxes...

You must have a pathetic life if you're stalking teenagers and following random cars your fucked up brain sees as "suspicious."

You're the type of people I literally hate - you're always looking to bust someone...

How's this - mind your own fucking business...

What others do is none of your concern - especially kids being kids and people driving cars...

When the mailbox is mine that is being damaged, it is my business.

Again you are entitled to your opinion including your opinion of me.

Please do not move into our neighborhood, however. We don't need people who think like you.

No you want spies living in your neighborhood - people who peep through windows to make sure you have the correct light bulbs and correct smoke alarms....

Trust me I would have no interest in living in your totalitarian neighborhood...

So what - big deal your mailbox got blown up... Let me guess you pressed charges too?

Of course you fucked up the lives of a bunch of teenagers over a 20 dollar mailbox... The kids probably got charged with felony arson and criminal damage to property while your authoritarian ass gloats about it....

Some of us out here that have kids teach them to be responsible and if not then there are consequences if they are not.
No matter how hard you spin it blowing up mailboxes should have a severe punishment for it.
If kids want to blow something up how come you do not volunteer your back pocket and let them strap 4 M-80s, 2 in each of your back pockets and let them blow them up.
After all Nick, what are we talking about here, a $15 pair of Wranglers?
I guarantee your ass will not have time to make up ridiculous words like totalitarian and authoritarian for your reaction to what that is like.
What isa pair of $15 jeans Nick when the kiddies want their fun?

 

[KissMy]

No you want spies living in your neighborhood - people who peep through windows to make sure you have the correct light bulbs and correct smoke alarms....

Trust me I would have no interest in living in your totalitarian neighborhood...

So what - big deal your mailbox got blown up... Let me guess you pressed charges too?

Of course you fucked up the lives of a bunch of teenagers over a 20 dollar mailbox... The kids probably got charged with felony arson and criminal damage to property while your authoritarian ass gloats about it....

Why not let the teens dump a few sugar cubes into your gas tank for a good laugh? Just let them spray paint their gang name on your house & car or cut the sidewall of your tires. Next you will be telling us that destroying or stealing peoples property (mail box), checks, bills & medication is a patriotic act. Oh wait - you already said that.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

We are talking the martin case.

With the moral of the story being never assault a man packing heat, you end up dead.

Actually, the moral there is that you should always allow the guy with heat to do whatever the fuck he wants or he shoots you dead and claims self defense.

Parallel situation:

You're walking down the street. I think you look suspicious and follow you despite the police, who I have called, asking me to back off. I move up behind you and attempt to restrain you, catching you off guard.

Because you're resisting, I catch an elbow to my face and get knocked to the pavement, picking up lacerations on my head. You turn, justifiably angry to ask me "What the hell?" at which point I shoot you dead.

Did I kill you in self defense?

So far, that's as likely a scenario as the scenario where Martin lies in wait for Zimmerman and attacks him.

 

[toomuchtime_]

We are talking the martin case.

With the moral of the story being never assault a man packing heat, you end up dead.

Actually, the moral there is that you should always allow the guy with heat to do whatever the fuck he wants or he shoots you dead and claims self defense.

Parallel situation:

You're walking down the street. I think you look suspicious and follow you despite the police, who I have called, asking me to back off. I move up behind you and attempt to restrain you, catching you off guard.

Because you're resisting, I catch an elbow to my face and get knocked to the pavement, picking up lacerations on my head. You turn, justifiably angry to ask me "What the hell?" at which point I shoot you dead.

Did I kill you in self defense?

So far, that's as likely a scenario as the scenario where Martin lies in wait for Zimmerman and attacks him.

In other words, there's no evidence that contradicts Zimmerman's account that Martin attacked him and he fired in self defense.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

We are talking the martin case.

With the moral of the story being never assault a man packing heat, you end up dead.

Actually, the moral there is that you should always allow the guy with heat to do whatever the fuck he wants or he shoots you dead and claims self defense.

Parallel situation:

You're walking down the street. I think you look suspicious and follow you despite the police, who I have called, asking me to back off. I move up behind you and attempt to restrain you, catching you off guard.

Because you're resisting, I catch an elbow to my face and get knocked to the pavement, picking up lacerations on my head. You turn, justifiably angry to ask me "What the hell?" at which point I shoot you dead.

Did I kill you in self defense?

So far, that's as likely a scenario as the scenario where Martin lies in wait for Zimmerman and attacks him.

In other words, there's no evidence that contradicts Zimmerman's account that Martin attacked him and he fired in self defense.

Yep. And so far, none supporting it.

That's why a complete investigation needs to be made with a fair trial. Zimmerman may well be vindicated in a court of law. Or he may end up being found guilty. There's only one way to find out and clear the air.

My issue is a lot of the folks on here complaining that Zimmerman has been "found guilty by the media" are themselves convicting Martin based on absolutely ZERO evidence. The difference here is that Martin is around to defend himself and won't ever get a trial in front of a judge. Zimmerman will.

 

[WorldWatcher]

We are talking the martin case.

With the moral of the story being never assault a man packing heat, you end up dead.

Actually, the moral there is that you should always allow the guy with heat to do whatever the fuck he wants or he shoots you dead and claims self defense.

Parallel situation:

You're walking down the street. I think you look suspicious and follow you despite the police, who I have called, asking me to back off. I move up behind you and attempt to restrain you, catching you off guard.

Because you're resisting, I catch an elbow to my face and get knocked to the pavement, picking up lacerations on my head. You turn, justifiably angry to ask me "What the hell?" at which point I shoot you dead.

Did I kill you in self defense?

So far, that's as likely a scenario as the scenario where Martin lies in wait for Zimmerman and attacks him.

In other words, there's no evidence that contradicts Zimmerman's account that Martin attacked him and he fired in self defense.

Two examples that Zimmerman's story may be contradicted by the facts:

1. The time from Zimmerman acknowledging the dispatchers instruction not to pursue was 18 seconds. If his statements were that he returned to the truck ware began returning to the truck, then the fact that after 2:30-3:30 (minutes:seconds) he was farther away from the truck then he would have been at 18-seconds is a conflict.

2. There is at least one witness to the shooting that says that Zimmerman was on top of Martin at the time of the shot, if that witness is believe by the Judge (preliminary hearing) and/or by the jury (trial) that testimony would conflict with Zimmerman's story if it was that Martin was on top of him. (The autopsy and forensic ballistic evidence may support or undermine either version.)​

>>>>

 

[sublime]

There is a newly released photo that shows the back of Zimmerman's head a bit bloodied... It was taken three minutes after the shooting.

 

[Gadawg73]

Actually, the moral there is that you should always allow the guy with heat to do whatever the fuck he wants or he shoots you dead and claims self defense.

Parallel situation:

You're walking down the street. I think you look suspicious and follow you despite the police, who I have called, asking me to back off. I move up behind you and attempt to restrain you, catching you off guard.

Because you're resisting, I catch an elbow to my face and get knocked to the pavement, picking up lacerations on my head. You turn, justifiably angry to ask me "What the hell?" at which point I shoot you dead.

Did I kill you in self defense?

So far, that's as likely a scenario as the scenario where Martin lies in wait for Zimmerman and attacks him.

In other words, there's no evidence that contradicts Zimmerman's account that Martin attacked him and he fired in self defense.

Yep. And so far, none supporting it.

That's why a complete investigation needs to be made with a fair trial. Zimmerman may well be vindicated in a court of law. Or he may end up being found guilty. There's only one way to find out and clear the air.

My issue is a lot of the folks on here complaining that Zimmerman has been "found guilty by the media" are themselves convicting Martin based on absolutely ZERO evidence. The difference here is that Martin is around to defend himself and won't ever get a trial in front of a judge. Zimmerman will.

A defendant never has to have any evidence to support anything.
The entire burden is on the prosecution TO PROVE THEIR CASE.
Beyond a reasonable doubt. A defendant is presumed innocent and never has to prove anything.
I am not convicting Martin of a damn thing.
Who in the mass media has convicted Martin?
They damn sure have convicted Zimmerman. Please join us with your outrage on that.
Martin should have been in school or under parental supervision with all the suspensions he had. Obvious he was allowed to run with little or no consequences for his actions.
That is a fact. If he had behaved himself and been in school this never would have happened.