Treason or Whistle Blower?

[mudwhistle]

The Google chairman that is helping Obama spy on us said "If you're doing things you wouldn't want people to see, maybe you shouldn't be doing them!"

I figure if we started looking into his private life there's plenty he does that he wouldn't want anyone knowing.

Just about everyone except Jesus Christ did something like that.



Liberals complain about Republicans trying to invade women's vaginas. Obama is trying to look up our backsides.

I'm sorry, the government doesn't has the right to arbitrarily invade my privacy. If Hitler had this technology there wouldn't be a Jew left on Earth.

 

[JoeB131]

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted."

I have no doubt the answer will be offered based on political leaning so give a rational reason for your vote.

I think the real crime here is a college dropout who wasn't even a government employee was given this kind of access.

If this was such an important program, why make access to its existence so easily accessable.

It's like leaving your wide-screen on the front porch and then complaining when someone steals it.

 

[JoeB131]

The Google chairman that is helping Obama spy on us said "If you're doing things you wouldn't want people to see, maybe you shouldn't be doing them!"

I figure if we started looking into his private life there's plenty he does that he wouldn't want anyone knowing.

Just about everyone except Jesus Christ does something like that.

Liberals complain about Republicans trying to invade women's vaginas.

I'm sorry, the government doesn't has the right to arbitrarily invade my privacy. If Hitler had this technology there wouldn't be a Jew left on Earth.

Right. Because he would have gotten everyone who googled "Matzah Balls". Really.

You know, guy, you are coming off as more hysterical every day.

 

[dblack]

Your ignorance LGS is only surpassed by your partisanship and hate for the President.

Emotion has nothing to do with my opinion in this matter. We have laws and citizens who believe a law is flawed have recourse. Those who disobey a law and runaway are not only criminals they are cowards. Read On thr Duty of Civil Disobedience and the 'heroic' behavior of Thoreau (no he was not a Frenchman).

I would LOVE to hear your opinion if this had been about a Republican president doing this....if someone turned a Rep in for this you would be jumping for joy!! You're not bullshitting anyone....

The practice commenced under President Bush. The NSA has been listening for years.

That doesn't answer the question. Would you be shilling for a Republican administration as you're doing here? No.

 

[dblack]

Amen!

if you bootlickers were around at the time, you'd be demanding that George Washington be hanged.

Why does your 'kind' always default to stupidity?

How is my claim stupid? Our nation was founded on treason, on breaking with existing law when their leaders had become corrupt and abusive of their power. Why you would have been on our side? Based on the blind dedication to 'law and order' you're displaying here, I can't imagine you'd have sided with the rebels. You'd have been shilling for King George just like you're shilling for Obama. Do you have no shame?

 

[dblack]

I'm also confident that if Dick Cheney & Co. had done exactly the same thing as President Obama the same 'kind' who want Obama impeached would praise Cheney as a patriot.

You're really proving yourself a fool here. If you'd read and comprehended any of my posts you'd know better. In fact, I think Cheney (and Bush and the rest) DID do similar things and should be brought up on charges along with the Obama administration.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Obama should be impeached for failing to to uphold the Constitution

Is it now unconstitutional to enforce a law punishing people for revealing state secrets who have taken oaths to not reveal state secrets?

 

[PredFan]

He's definitely not a traitor, he did not put our troops in danger, nor did he put Americans in danger. He warned Americans about an out of control government.

 

[percysunshine]

We just saw the IRS whistle blowers do it the right way. The guy could have had an audience with Rand Pauls' staff in about 5 seconds. Now he is going to go to prison. Idiot.

 

[Seawytch]

He's definitely not a traitor, he did not put our troops in danger, nor did he put Americans in danger. He warned Americans about an out of control government.

No, probably not treason, but criminal none the less.

Title 18, United States Code

Section 798. Disclosure of classified information

(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information--

(1) concerning the nature, preparation, or use of any code, cipher, or cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or

(2) concerning the design, construction, use, maintenance, or repair of any device, apparatus, or appliance used or prepared or planned for use by the United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or

(3) concerning the communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or

(4) obtained by the process of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes--

Shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.​

 

[PredFan]

He's definitely not a traitor, he did not put our troops in danger, nor did he put Americans in danger. He warned Americans about an out of control government.

No, probably not treason, but criminal none the less.

Title 18, United States Code

Section 798. Disclosure of classified information

(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information--

(1) concerning the nature, preparation, or use of any code, cipher, or cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or

(2) concerning the design, construction, use, maintenance, or repair of any device, apparatus, or appliance used or prepared or planned for use by the United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or

(3) concerning the communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or

(4) obtained by the process of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes--

Shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.​

The courts should clear him of wrong doing and then we should prosecute the US government.

 

[dblack]

This has already been covered ...

If this be treason, make the most of it!

-- Patrick Henry

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Obama should be impeached for failing to to uphold the Constitution

Is it now unconstitutional to enforce a law punishing people for revealing state secrets who have taken oaths to not reveal state secrets?

It's unconstitutional to go through my emails, phone calls and credit card transactions without a court order, Useful Idiot

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The government is not spying on US citizens. They are collecting data which can be looked upon only when a warrant is obtained. Do some homework.

LOL....

They're not spying, they're just collecting data

LOL

What a tool

Raw data. You're too stupid to get the nuince, I know that. You're also an asshole, I know that. And you've never posted anything of substance, most everyone know's that.

Freddo, go find a grown up, have them read this to you, probably a few times...

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[mudwhistle]

Obama should be impeached for failing to to uphold the Constitution

Is it now unconstitutional to enforce a law punishing people for revealing state secrets who have taken oaths to not reveal state secrets?

What state secrets?

 

[dblack]

LOL....

They're not spying, they're just collecting data

LOL

What a tool

Raw data. You're too stupid to get the nuince, I know that. You're also an asshole, I know that. And you've never posted anything of substance, most everyone know's that.

Freddo, go find a grown up, have them read this to you, probably a few times...

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

This might be more his speed:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQirtguNqi0]Andy Griffith on IV Amendment - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Londoner]

IF HE HAD DONE IT WHILE BUSH WAS FIGHTING THE WAR ON TERROR, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED TREASONOUS.

The Bush administration ruthlessly intimidated anybody who criticized the way they conducted the war on terror, including people who tried to bring their activities to light. They accused all political opposition as endangering the troops. How do you think they were able to pass the Patriot Act in the first place? They used color-coded terror alerts on every channel; they kept Americans in a constant state of fear and said that Washington was the only solution to that fear; they made sure that every news agency lead every broadcast with the war on terrorism; they wrapped themselves in the flag every time anyone tried to bring their activities to light. It's the oldest political trick in the book: they used fear and patriotism to concentrate money and power in the state apparatus. That's what Republicans do.

They used national security like the old Soviet Union, to build the largest surveillance state that history has ever seen. And now, as Ron Paul said, we're stuck with it.

As for whistleblowers, I don't know, maybe it's a good thing that people undersrand the surveillance bureaucracy that Bush put in place. For those of you who say, "but Obama has continued it" . . . well, you don't understand how government agencies work. Consider this:

FDR's Liberal New Deal government was installed over 50 years ago - and all Republican administrations have tried to kill it. However,it is only grown bigger, even under Republican rule. Why? Because once you put a government agency in place, it only grows bigger.

Meaning: the Bush surveillance sate will only continue to grow because government agencies are the most self-perpetuating things that man has created. Thanks George!

 

[Katzndogz]

The classified information that Snowden revealed was the extent of data collection that the government is doing to the entire American people. The "enemies" Snowden gave aid and comfort to, are the American people. The reason this is classified information is because the government never wanted the people to know what was being done to them. They might object to having such massive data collection by a government driven insane by paranoia. If the public knew, they might not want their money spent on something like Dark Star. Edward Snowden told, he exposed not only the kind of spying the government is doing, but what it intends to do with programs like Dark Star.

Behold the NSA?s Dark Star: the Utah Data Center - The Daily Beast

Down State News - Behold the NSA’s Dark Star: the Utah Data Center

It’s the ultimate machine of what’s become our Paranoid State. Clive Irving on the Orwellian mass-surveillance data center rising in the Utah desert.

There’s no official explanation of the Utah Data Center’s real mission, except that it’s the largest of a network of data farms including sites in Colorado, Georgia, and Maryland. But it’s obviously been built to vastly increase the agency’s capacity to suck in, digest, analyze, and store whatever the intelligence community decides to collect.

 

[dblack]

IF HE HAD DONE IT WHILE BUSH WAS FIGHTING THE WAR ON TERROR, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED TREASONOUS.

The Bush administration ruthlessly intimidated anybody who criticized the way they conducted the war on terror, including people who tried to bring their activities to light. They accused all political opposition as endangering the troops. How do you think they were able to pass the Patriot Act in the first place? They used color-coded terror alerts on every channel; they kept Americans in a constant state of fear and said that Washington was the only solution to that fear; they made sure that every news agency lead every broadcast with the war on terrorism; they wrapped themselves in the flag every time anyone tried to bring their activities to light. It's the oldest political trick in the book: they used fear and patriotism to concentrate money and power in the state apparatus. That's what Republicans do.

They used national security like the old Soviet Union, to build the largest surveillance state that history has ever seen. And now, as Ron Paul said, we're stuck with it.

As for whistleblowers, I don't know, maybe it's a good thing that people undersrand the surveillance bureaucracy that Bush put in place. For those of you who say, "but Obama has continued it" . . . well, you don't understand how government agencies work. Consider this:

FDR's Liberal New Deal government was installed over 50 years ago - and all Republican administrations have tried to kill it. However,it is only grown bigger, even under Republican rule. Why? Because once you put a government agency in place, it only grows bigger.

Meaning: the Bush surveillance sate will only continue to grow because government agencies are the most self-perpetuating things that man has created. Thanks George!

The Republicans haven't failed to reverse the New Deal. They've never tried. They've perpetuated it. They like the additional power it affords them as much as the Democrats do.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Bullshit. He had other recourse as has been explained over and over on the news today. The reason he has not been "immediately arrested" is because he went to China. That and his salary with a defense contractor is suspect - how many "regualar guys" with a GED earn $200,000 per year?

If you believe that, you are incredibly naive.

I have some experience in this area.

This was IMO the ONLY way this information was going to have any effect on government operations...by having it so widely publicly disseminated that it could not possibly be quarantined.

And here is the proof, Brother...

From the same article about Holder fighting to have the courts opinion kept secret...

This important case—all the more relevant in the wake of this week's disclosures—was triggered after Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), a member of the Senate intelligence committee, started crying foul in 2011 about US government snooping. As a member of the intelligence committee, he had learned about domestic surveillance activity affecting American citizens that he believed was improper.



He and Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.), another intelligence committee member, raised only vague warnings about this data collection, because they could not reveal the details of the classified program that concerned them.



But in July 2012, Wyden was able to get the Office of the Director of National Intelligence to declassify two statements that he wanted to issue publicly. They were:

* On at least one occasion the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court held that some collection carried out pursuant to the Section 702 minimization procedures used by the government was unreasonable under the Fourth Amendment.


* I believe that the government's implementation of Section 702 of FISA [the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act] has sometimes circumvented the spirit of the law, and on at least one occasion the FISA Court has reached this same conclusion.
​

For those who follow the secret and often complex world of high-tech government spying, this was an aha moment.

Justice Department Fights Release of Secret Court Opinion Finding Unconstitutional Surveillance | Mother Jones

​

So here you go...from a nice left leaning site.

These two Democrat congressmen have been working on this for TWO YEARS...and the administration has been fighting them tooth and nail.

AND WINNING!

Two congressmen couldn't get anything accomplished in two years, what was Snowden going to do within the system to bring this information to light???

The power of the government in this circumstance is all but insurmountable.

Probably the best post on the subject so far.