Trump doubles down on claim that US 'wages are too high

[charwin95]

.

Trump is right. Minimum wage increases kill jobs. Everybody with a brain knows that, it's simple logic.

That's a load of Republican bullshit propaganda. Sure the top dogs want you to believe that so they can have it all:

View attachment 54539

you and your charts. are these from 1950 or at least 2012 or something?

who the hell has been the President for the LAST seven miserable years? so you lefties are the one who are full of it. just go vote for Hillary no one cares

Exactly what chart do you have? Typical conservative bad attitude. They do nothing but whine and complain then ask what happened.

 

[charwin95]

So, the way to compete with China getting all of our manufacturing is to bring USA wages DOWN to China's wages?


What a STUPID comment and thoughtless idea.

I love that idea... Darn why didn't I think about that idea.

 

[charwin95]

Please...allow me...

“We are a country that is being beaten on every front — economically, militarily,” Trump said. “Taxes too high, wages too high, we’re not going to be able to compete against the world. … People have to go out, they have to work really hard, and they have to get into that upper stratum.”

Donald Trump said wages are 'too high' in his opening debate statement | Business Insider

Obviously he was talking about minimum-wage and costs.

Obviously YOU are changing Trump's words as if he is a LOSER to STUPID to know what words he wants to use.

He's correct. Once again, a simple fact in America becomes a major issue because of Democrat policies that are damaging the economy.

When it comes to immigration, if it weren't for the need for low-wage workers and the Democrats taking advantage of this by bringing in millions of illegals, we wouldn't have an immigration problem.

The fact is, government is doing their part of contributing to this problem by massive spending and raising taxes. Without that, much of the costs of doing business wouldn't exist.

Really Democrats bringing millions of illegals? I missed that... Do you have link?

 

[charwin95]

So, the way to compete with China getting all of our manufacturing is to bring USA wages DOWN to China's wages?


What a STUPID comment and thoughtless idea.

Yeah that's right pinhead, we want to pay you $17 a day and a bowl of rice.

Now go run vote for your Socialist.

You didn't like that...because it messed up your pro Trump bean gas.

 

[charwin95]

So, the way to compete with China getting all of our manufacturing is to bring USA wages DOWN to China's wages?


What a STUPID comment and thoughtless idea.

Yeah that's right pinhead, we want to pay you $17 a day and a bowl of rice.

Now go run vote for your Socialist.

It's what Trump said....we need LOWER wages to compete with the Chinas of the global economy.

It's clear as day light, what Trump said and meant, no other explanation for it.

Bring American wages DOWN, so we can compete...

OR....Bring American commodities UP so we CANNOT compete. Either directions Trump is messed up.

 

[Toro]

Trump is a walking billboard for Massive Epic Defeat for the Republican Party if they nominate him.

All Hillary's henchmen will have to do is just play Trump's idiotic statements on a continuous loop, and Hillary's election will be like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[charwin95]

What have they done? NOTHING, it's the DO NOTHING CONGRESS.... we already know that....

Rather than spend nearly $1 trillion US tax dollars to teach alcoholic Chinese prostitutes how to drink more responsibly on duty, giving Feinstein's husband a 'loan' (he'll never pay back) to bail him out of bankruptcy, paying for a grant to study why homosexual Argentinian men have a better sex life than straight US males, and giving unions half ownership of a US auto-maker, WHY didn't the Democrats spend any REAL money (not that fake 'shove-ready' B$) to fix infrastructure? Why not spend some of that money on all the issues Liberals had a chance to fix but are claiming that in less than a year the GOP has not fixed?

The very FIRST thing the Libs did when they took over all of congress was create a huge liberal wet-dream wish list - over 7,000 pieces of party/personal-benefitting pork to reward themselves with for having won! To hell with the American people or what really needed fixing / addressing! OVER $742,000 PER JOB was spent.....for this 'LIE' of a 'Jobs Bill'.

SO Liberals need to STFU! You had your chance! All this crap you're screaming about now was ignored when you controlled Congress for 4 years! You only passed what was good for YOU and the PARTY, not what was good for the nation!

The easy answer is that your so-called "libs" (listening to Retard Radio, are we?) cannot pass any substantial infrasture improvement bills so long as ideological right wingers oppose ALL of our government's attempts to progress. Can right wingers offer any solutions? So far, it seems that the Tea Party is simply a group of anti-government insurgents. They have basically castrated the GOP.

again; WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!! PEOPLE I INSIST I'M SMARTER THAN KEEP "OBSTRUCTING" ME!!!!!

Your screaming because you cannot counter what Freemason is telling you. Your funny.,

 

[charwin95]

the same idiots keep saying if only their myriad "bills" for this and that got passed, they wouldnt have failed so badly.........................while out of the other corner of their mouths trying to brag how great things are now in the absence of things they insisted were needed that DIDNT get passed


libs are morons who lie to themselves

From reading your crap, I'm guessing that you are 75-80 years old and have never been employed in, or part of, an organization.

Or 18 years old that get cannot get a job at McDonald's.

 

[charwin95]

the same idiots keep saying if only their myriad "bills" for this and that got passed, they wouldnt have failed so badly.........................while out of the other corner of their mouths trying to brag how great things are now in the absence of things they insisted were needed that DIDNT get passed


libs are morons who lie to themselves

From reading your crap, I'm guessing that you are 75-80 years old and have never been employed in, or part of, an organization.

I'm guessing he worked for the government most of his life.

Absolutely NOT. He lacks sufficient education to work in government. Public employees/federal government workers are among the most educated in the labor force.

sure goofball, i just love the ones sliding around on their bellies during work hours, playing games in that video

So far you have not proven anything but your own goofball ( sorry m..just hate using thuggery language)

 

[charwin95]

So, the way to compete with China getting all of our manufacturing is to bring USA wages DOWN to China's wages?


What a STUPID comment and thoughtless idea.

What amazes me is how backward-looking and devoid of vision the policy of simply reducing costs to compete with the rest of the world is.
Why do you want to bring your population's living standards down to those of Third World standards so that you can compete with them?

Surely a better and more visionary approach is to invest in your workforce, R&D, engineering resources and produce stuff that the rest of the world needs. wants and is happy to pay for.

people who support the policies that DID lead to Detroit resembling some Third World hellhole should avoid embarrassing themselves saying stupid shit................because the question YOU cant answer is how will making the minimum wage $15/hour, unionizing everybody, or endless regulations make us MORE competitive with the 3rd world countries our manufacturing is competing with

Why should I answer that question?

you shouldnt actually, you'll just embarrass your self further

I hate to tell you this and the rest of your team that do not understand MW. Seattle was the first city that raised the minimum wage since June 2014.
Unemployment rate is 3.3% last month from 4.2% last year.

Seattle approves $15 minimum wage

 

[Care4all]

The federal minimum at $10.10, with help to small businesses by giving them years longer to bring the wage up and other help from the feds, will not kill us nor kill the economy.

It also won't do anything to help anyone. For 82 years, since the day FDR signed the MW into law, the Democrats have promised this would raise the working poor up to a decent living wage... never has, never will. It's a carrot on a stick.

"In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls;and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living."~ FDR 1933

so, you support bringing the minimum wage up to $15 and you are going to send letters to your republican reps to support it? Is that your point?

 

[Boss]

All your shit comes from Fox News and the whole world knows there's no need to refute it.

Look out Bedowin, he has used his "whole world" card on you!

 

[Boss]

The federal minimum at $10.10, with help to small businesses by giving them years longer to bring the wage up and other help from the feds, will not kill us nor kill the economy.

It also won't do anything to help anyone. For 82 years, since the day FDR signed the MW into law, the Democrats have promised this would raise the working poor up to a decent living wage... never has, never will. It's a carrot on a stick.

"In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls;and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living."~ FDR 1933

so, you support bringing the minimum wage up to $15 and you are going to send letters to your republican reps to support it? Is that your point?

No, because it doesn't work. Seems like 82 years of something not working would be enough.

If you raise the MW to $15, virtually all entry-level jobs will decline. So the young person out there trying to get into the workforce and gain experience will have less opportunity. The raise also creates a ripple effect through the mid-level pay scales as the all have to receive comparable adjustments to their pay. When it's all said and done, the increased labor costs are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices. And yes, they also increase production per worker, scale back operations, lay off workers and cut corners on quality. The business objective will be to not let the extra cost effect the bottom line profit and it usually never does.

So what you do (and what you've been doing for 82 years) is make yourself feel good for a little bit. People get a little bigger paycheck and you think that relief has come. Only, the people quickly find a way to improve their lifestyle with the extra money and soon they are in the same boat again. Only now, the prices have risen and things are even worse.

If we follow your insanity to it's ultimate outcome, it becomes like health care and education... so overpriced due to your stupid boneheaded policies and massive regulations that no one can afford it... THEN you start squealing that the government needs to give it to your for FREE!

 

[Care4all]

The federal minimum at $10.10, with help to small businesses by giving them years longer to bring the wage up and other help from the feds, will not kill us nor kill the economy.

It also won't do anything to help anyone. For 82 years, since the day FDR signed the MW into law, the Democrats have promised this would raise the working poor up to a decent living wage... never has, never will. It's a carrot on a stick.

"In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls;and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living."~ FDR 1933

so, you support bringing the minimum wage up to $15 and you are going to send letters to your republican reps to support it? Is that your point?

No, because it doesn't work. Seems like 82 years of something not working would be enough.

If you raise the MW to $15, virtually all entry-level jobs will decline. So the young person out there trying to get into the workforce and gain experience will have less opportunity. The raise also creates a ripple effect through the mid-level pay scales as the all have to receive comparable adjustments to their pay. When it's all said and done, the increased labor costs are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices. And yes, they also increase production per worker, scale back operations, lay off workers and cut corners on quality. The business objective will be to not let the extra cost effect the bottom line profit and it usually never does.

So what you do (and what you've been doing for 82 years) is make yourself feel good for a little bit. People get a little bigger paycheck and you think that relief has come. Only, the people quickly find a way to improve their lifestyle with the extra money and soon they are in the same boat again. Only now, the prices have risen and things are even worse.

If we follow your insanity to it's ultimate outcome, it becomes like health care and education... so overpriced due to your stupid boneheaded policies and massive regulations that no one can afford it... THEN you start squealing that the government needs to give it to your for FREE!

do you believe if we never gave minimum wage a raise, that we would not have inflation or do you believe inflation will take place, regardless of what we pay the minimum wage worker?

I understand what you are saying on the ripple effect, others that worked 10 years to get to the $15 are going to expect a raise too....

But honestly, I believe part of the reason that the skilled worker and experience guy is only making the $15 is because minimum wage has been artificially been kept low... if minimum wages had been going up with inflation all along, then that next layer up or two or three of skilled workers, would have been paid more...

AND THAT means, this could also be helping the middle class... get out of this rut of stagnate or even lower wages....

As long as you hold down those making the least, the pay of everyone else seems more acceptable, even though those people are losing ground on what they actually make in income and what they can buy with it, like a college education.... when I was young, working minimum wage through the summer full time and part time all winter, with just a little bit of help from the parents, could pay for 1 year of college at a State College, without having to take out a loan....

Why should a child today doing a minimum wage job not be able to purchase what a kid making minimum could 30 years ago? And it is not just college, but they should be able to buy the same amount of food as you could on that min wage or same amount of car insurance as you could or gasoline that you could on minimum wage years ago?

it should go up with inflation, like other wages.

 

[Borillar]

Please...allow me...

“We are a country that is being beaten on every front — economically, militarily,” Trump said. “Taxes too high, wages too high, we’re not going to be able to compete against the world. … People have to go out, they have to work really hard, and they have to get into that upper stratum.”

Donald Trump said wages are 'too high' in his opening debate statement | Business Insider

And, of course, taken in context, whether we agree or have reservations about it, he obviously was making specific reference to arbitrarily and artificially raising the minimum wage for the so-called "unskilled" labor force.

Only a liberal drone would even attempt to deny that companies which are striving to survive in a competitive market will seek to pay LOWER wages not higher. ONE way to help keep costs as low as possible is not to get forced by purely artificial laws to pa more for their unskilled labor force than the market can rationally justify.

It will lead to either a reduction in the work force (thanks for the higher unemployment, government) OR to a higher cost per unit of the companies' goods/services which (very predictably) will LOWER demand resulting (predictably) in labor force reductions (thanks either way, government, for the increased unemployment).

If our workers are paid (again, artificially, due to mindless government legislation) such a markedly higher wage than the workers in other places, then it could very well lead to companies HAVING to move their production elsewhere.

No matter how you slice it, the temporary feel good artificial increase in minimum wage ultimately has to get PAID for. Freakin' idiot liberals tend to gloss over such things and thus have little or no ability to contemplate the undesired consequences of their childish notions and policies.

Perhaps right wingers would be willing to take a pay cut to help out the job creators and move the economy along?

 

[charwin95]

Please...allow me...

“We are a country that is being beaten on every front — economically, militarily,” Trump said. “Taxes too high, wages too high, we’re not going to be able to compete against the world. … People have to go out, they have to work really hard, and they have to get into that upper stratum.”

Donald Trump said wages are 'too high' in his opening debate statement | Business Insider

Obviously he was talking about minimum-wage and costs.

Obviously YOU are changing Trump's words as if he is a LOSER to STUPID to know what words he wants to use.

He's correct. Once again, a simple fact in America becomes a major issue because of Democrat policies that are damaging the economy.

When it comes to immigration, if it weren't for the need for low-wage workers and the Democrats taking advantage of this by bringing in millions of illegals, we wouldn't have an immigration problem.

The fact is, government is doing their part of contributing to this problem by massive spending and raising taxes. Without that, much of the costs of doing business wouldn't exist.

Really Democrats bringing millions of illegals? I missed that... Do you have link?

What happened Mudw.....did you disappear? Where is Boss on this argument? Scared to counter act from a lightweight?

 

[Boss]

The federal minimum at $10.10, with help to small businesses by giving them years longer to bring the wage up and other help from the feds, will not kill us nor kill the economy.

It also won't do anything to help anyone. For 82 years, since the day FDR signed the MW into law, the Democrats have promised this would raise the working poor up to a decent living wage... never has, never will. It's a carrot on a stick.

"In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls;and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living."~ FDR 1933

so, you support bringing the minimum wage up to $15 and you are going to send letters to your republican reps to support it? Is that your point?

No, because it doesn't work. Seems like 82 years of something not working would be enough.

If you raise the MW to $15, virtually all entry-level jobs will decline. So the young person out there trying to get into the workforce and gain experience will have less opportunity. The raise also creates a ripple effect through the mid-level pay scales as the all have to receive comparable adjustments to their pay. When it's all said and done, the increased labor costs are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices. And yes, they also increase production per worker, scale back operations, lay off workers and cut corners on quality. The business objective will be to not let the extra cost effect the bottom line profit and it usually never does.

So what you do (and what you've been doing for 82 years) is make yourself feel good for a little bit. People get a little bigger paycheck and you think that relief has come. Only, the people quickly find a way to improve their lifestyle with the extra money and soon they are in the same boat again. Only now, the prices have risen and things are even worse.

If we follow your insanity to it's ultimate outcome, it becomes like health care and education... so overpriced due to your stupid boneheaded policies and massive regulations that no one can afford it... THEN you start squealing that the government needs to give it to your for FREE!

do you believe if we never gave minimum wage a raise, that we would not have inflation or do you believe inflation will take place, regardless of what we pay the minimum wage worker?

I understand what you are saying on the ripple effect, others that worked 10 years to get to the $15 are going to expect a raise too....

But honestly, I believe part of the reason that the skilled worker and experience guy is only making the $15 is because minimum wage has been artificially been kept low... if minimum wages had been going up with inflation all along, then that next layer up or two or three of skilled workers, would have been paid more...

AND THAT means, this could also be helping the middle class... get out of this rut of stagnate or even lower wages....

As long as you hold down those making the least, the pay of everyone else seems more acceptable, even though those people are losing ground on what they actually make in income and what they can buy with it, like a college education.... when I was young, working minimum wage through the summer full time and part time all winter, with just a little bit of help from the parents, could pay for 1 year of college at a State College, without having to take out a loan....

Why should a child today doing a minimum wage job not be able to purchase what a kid making minimum could 30 years ago? And it is not just college, but they should be able to buy the same amount of food as you could on that min wage or same amount of car insurance as you could or gasoline that you could on minimum wage years ago?

it should go up with inflation, like other wages.

I think the MW is one of the worst ideas we've ever had. I'm sure some might argue there have been other worse ideas and maybe so, this is just my opinion. I think the MW has served to baseline labor costs across the board for all capitalists and they love it. The individual has been removed from his freedom to negotiate because now there is an artificial and arbitrary rate the company can go by.

An example of what I am saying: Let's say there is a chain convenience store like 7-11 operating a location on St. Simon's Island in Georgia. It's a tourist area with a few very expensive homes and an above-average cost of living (on the actual island). Now, the convenience store needs a cashier, but the company policy is, all cashiers start at minimum wage. Well, you can't really live on St. Simon Island and work for minimum wage. In an open free market, someone would be able to negotiate a special higher wage to work there because of location and cost of living, but as it stands, they can't because... the minimum wage is what it is and that's 7-11s policy. They hire someone at MW but they don't live on the Island, so they have to spend more money to drive there and eat lunch there, etc. So, effectively, they're making LESS than MW but doing the same work as others who make MW.

Or let's say we're talking about a job that's not MW, but on up the ladder... let's say Tech Support... Pay is $15 an hour based on current MW. It doesn't matter that you are super bright and the best technician they've ever had, you still make $15 like all the other schlubs. You can't negotiate a higher wage because the wage is set according to the MW and that's just how they do it. Of course, without a MW, you could go to your boss and plead your case and you'd probably be able to negotiate a much more deserved salary.

You see... the MW works two ways. The capitalist uses it to avoid negotiations. It's a baseline for them on labor costs. They can put off raises or deny request for pay increases because hey... that MW thing. I understand that it was wonderful and great back during the depression when people were paid a nickel a bushel to pick oranges or kids were trapped in sweat shops for slave wages... understood... we had a serious problem and it needed to be corrected. I just think we did the wrong thing by establishing a national MW. It has effectively served as a ball and chain to our freedom of negotiation for the true value of our labor.

 

[Manonthestreet]

If libs cared about wages they wouldnt be importing masses of illegals to drive them down

 

[Boss]

Why should a child today doing a minimum wage job not be able to purchase what a kid making minimum could 30 years ago?

Well, one thing is... 30 years ago, we didn't have iPhones and iPads out the wazoo and every kid didn't have to live a Miami Vice lifestyle... now they seem to. I drove a car all through high school and college that was worth less than $1000. Today, kids get a $60k Corvette for graduation. They have jet skis and 4-wheelers. They go party all week at the beach. Take trips to Europe. Etc, etc.

Everybody should know (I don't know, maybe some don't) that no matter how much money you make, really, you become accustomed to that lifestyle. A bigger house, a newer car, a boat, a condo or lake house... on and on... we never get satisfied with stuff. This is why you'll NEVER solve this problem. There will ALWAYS be people who somehow don't earn enough to make ends meet.

That's why you've been doing this for 82 years and still crying that 'if we could only get to a decent living wage...' it's not going to ever happen, you're chasing a carrot you'll never reach. The more you raise MW the more you raise prices and cost of living and you're right back where you started, except people have become accustomed to MORE.

 

[Care4all]

The federal minimum at $10.10, with help to small businesses by giving them years longer to bring the wage up and other help from the feds, will not kill us nor kill the economy.

It also won't do anything to help anyone. For 82 years, since the day FDR signed the MW into law, the Democrats have promised this would raise the working poor up to a decent living wage... never has, never will. It's a carrot on a stick.

"In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls;and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living."~ FDR 1933

so, you support bringing the minimum wage up to $15 and you are going to send letters to your republican reps to support it? Is that your point?

No, because it doesn't work. Seems like 82 years of something not working would be enough.

If you raise the MW to $15, virtually all entry-level jobs will decline. So the young person out there trying to get into the workforce and gain experience will have less opportunity. The raise also creates a ripple effect through the mid-level pay scales as the all have to receive comparable adjustments to their pay. When it's all said and done, the increased labor costs are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices. And yes, they also increase production per worker, scale back operations, lay off workers and cut corners on quality. The business objective will be to not let the extra cost effect the bottom line profit and it usually never does.

So what you do (and what you've been doing for 82 years) is make yourself feel good for a little bit. People get a little bigger paycheck and you think that relief has come. Only, the people quickly find a way to improve their lifestyle with the extra money and soon they are in the same boat again. Only now, the prices have risen and things are even worse.

If we follow your insanity to it's ultimate outcome, it becomes like health care and education... so overpriced due to your stupid boneheaded policies and massive regulations that no one can afford it... THEN you start squealing that the government needs to give it to your for FREE!

do you believe if we never gave minimum wage a raise, that we would not have inflation or do you believe inflation will take place, regardless of what we pay the minimum wage worker?

I understand what you are saying on the ripple effect, others that worked 10 years to get to the $15 are going to expect a raise too....

But honestly, I believe part of the reason that the skilled worker and experience guy is only making the $15 is because minimum wage has been artificially been kept low... if minimum wages had been going up with inflation all along, then that next layer up or two or three of skilled workers, would have been paid more...

AND THAT means, this could also be helping the middle class... get out of this rut of stagnate or even lower wages....

As long as you hold down those making the least, the pay of everyone else seems more acceptable, even though those people are losing ground on what they actually make in income and what they can buy with it, like a college education.... when I was young, working minimum wage through the summer full time and part time all winter, with just a little bit of help from the parents, could pay for 1 year of college at a State College, without having to take out a loan....

Why should a child today doing a minimum wage job not be able to purchase what a kid making minimum could 30 years ago? And it is not just college, but they should be able to buy the same amount of food as you could on that min wage or same amount of car insurance as you could or gasoline that you could on minimum wage years ago?

it should go up with inflation, like other wages.

I think the MW is one of the worst ideas we've ever had. I'm sure some might argue there have been other worse ideas and maybe so, this is just my opinion. I think the MW has served to baseline labor costs across the board for all capitalists and they love it. The individual has been removed from his freedom to negotiate because now there is an artificial and arbitrary rate the company can go by.

An example of what I am saying: Let's say there is a chain convenience store like 7-11 operating a location on St. Simon's Island in Georgia. It's a tourist area with a few very expensive homes and an above-average cost of living (on the actual island). Now, the convenience store needs a cashier, but the company policy is, all cashiers start at minimum wage. Well, you can't really live on St. Simon Island and work for minimum wage. In an open free market, someone would be able to negotiate a special higher wage to work there because of location and cost of living, but as it stands, they can't because... the minimum wage is what it is and that's 7-11s policy. They hire someone at MW but they don't live on the Island, so they have to spend more money to drive there and eat lunch there, etc. So, effectively, they're making LESS than MW but doing the same work as others who make MW.

Or let's say we're talking about a job that's not MW, but on up the ladder... let's say Tech Support... Pay is $15 an hour based on current MW. It doesn't matter that you are super bright and the best technician they've ever had, you still make $15 like all the other schlubs. You can't negotiate a higher wage because the wage is set according to the MW and that's just how they do it. Of course, without a MW, you could go to your boss and plead your case and you'd probably be able to negotiate a much more deserved salary.

You see... the MW works two ways. The capitalist uses it to avoid negotiations. It's a baseline for them on labor costs. They can put off raises or deny request for pay increases because hey... that MW thing. I understand that it was wonderful and great back during the depression when people were paid a nickel a bushel to pick oranges or kids were trapped in sweat shops for slave wages... understood... we had a serious problem and it needed to be corrected. I just think we did the wrong thing by establishing a national MW. It has effectively served as a ball and chain to our freedom of negotiation for the true value of our labor.

I agree with near everything you've said on 'paper' or in this case, my computer screen...it's a solid theory...again, on paper...and is the positive aspect of what it could be like, without a minimum wage...but i'm a realist, and a daily witness of humans and their nature, and see a drive to lower wages instead of raising them if without the minimum wage....

Businesses want to lower their labors costs, pay less....that's what this is about....

also, minimum wagers have no experience in negotiating for a higher salary and most people with 20 years in the workforce don't have experience in negotiating for a higher salary, they take the raises they get.... big guns have recruiters negotiate their salary packages.

a darn salary negotiation class should be mandatory to take in high school!

And it's so much more complicated than simply the wage, if an employer pays them less, then us tax payers pay more in safety nets for them...

if there are an excess of low wage workers due to illegal immigrants, then wages stay lower.... so many things are intertwined together with this M/W issue...no fault of the American citizen m/w worker but it still lowers their success in negotiating for higher wages if they have the guts to try.

Note! employers can hire a teen for $4+ something an hour for like 3 months, then they have to bring them up to an adult's minimum wage...or let them go if they can't cut it....