Trump Trade Agreement A Grand Slam Home Run

[Brain357]

I get what you guys are trying to do. Intentionally or not

Import tariffs make Chinese steel more expensive. Thus the importer in Shawnee Mission looks for a supplier not located in Shanghai.

Bingo! And they end up not paying it. So who really pays for it in the end? China does. That's why China threw a fit over it.

Okay….perhaps you need a basic course in commerce.

If you’re selling me a widget, I am paying you for the widget. You’re not paying me.

The importer in Shawnee Mission, KS is wanting to buy steel from a steel company in Shanghai, China. The importer is paying the steel company; the steel company is not paying the importer.

The tariff that Trump is adding to imports is a tax that the importer is paying; China is not paying a Yuan to anyone.

Simple, don't buy the widget from me any mroe and you don't pay it. Guess who is still paying for it? Me, by losing out on your business.

If you’re losing out on my business, you’re not sending me a widget. It’s not costing you anything except your internal production costs. It doesn’t help me pay for a wall or anything else.

I didn’t go to Wal Mart today. Wal Mart didn’t incur some sort of costs by my not going there.

I think what you’re substituting for cash is some sort of pain fantasy you are hoping to impose on Mexico.

Seriously, explain to me, because the other guy won't, why then these countries are so upset about us having Tariffs now? Surely it's good for them right?...right?

Also, why do all of these countries put huge tariffs on our goods? You'd think would want zero tariffs, but alas they don't. They aren't so ignorant as to think that the buyer is forced to purchase a good with a tariff tax on it.

Again, they impose tariffs to protect their domestic suppliers.

You guys have been arguing that Tariffs cost them not us. How is that costing their suppliers?

I don't know if this is intentional or not, but you both are completely missing my point. You're stuck on the notion that because the buyer is the one handing over the cash that they are forced to absorb the cost. This isn't true. If it were true, no country would ever use tariffs as an economic weapon.

The only way the domestic suppliers are protected is if it is cost prohibitive for us suppliers to compete. There is no other reason. That is exactly my point. It costs the exporter not the country importing. Not necessarily.

Sure prices will go up temporarily, but only until the market readjusts.

Also, the tariffs will be absorbed somehow because this isn't some perfect thought experiment. There always will be someone somewhere buying from canada or China even with the tariff, but the notion that the buyers are somehow going to eat that cost no matter what is ridiculous. The entire nature of tariffs is that they are used to divert trade value through economic friction (taxation).

Nobody wins a trade war. Wise countries don't use it as an economic weapon because of this. Maybe you can learn something from this:

 

[Jerico]

Dude, get off your high horse.

You claim that Tariffs cost the importer. Why then has everyone been putting tariffs on our goods for decades? You keep dodging that. You also keep dodging the wall funding being paid for through tariffs. Go ahead and explain to me why these countries bitch and moan about not getting to pay more because their tariffs are harming them so bad.

It's not a claim, it's a fact. And the fact you don't even know who pays tariffs show's you have no clue. I can't really debate you when you don't even know the basics.

Bullshit. You claim the buyer pays the tariffs. That's your whole angle and you try to use that to strawman my points. This isn't a vacuum with only one product seller. Tariffs on import goods doesn't get borne by us. It just doesn't.

Canadian dairy farmers fume new US trade deal too generous, could cost about $240 million annually

Why is canada upset that they get to pay less in dairy tariffs?


China slashes steel, textile tariffs as Trump ratchets up pressure

Why did China have to be held over the fire to save themselves money on steel by reducing their tariffs?

Canadian dairy farmers don't want competition obviously. You keep talking nonsense.

Thank you. Finally, you agree with me even though you don't realize it.

Why is it that removing the tariff would increase competition if it costs them and not us? Think about it. Seriously, consider that for just a second what you said. Who is really being screwed here? Surely if we compete because tariffs go down and not up, it means that higher tariffs were bad for us, no?

Tariffs always screw the consumer.

Canada and China must love getting screwed then. I'm sorry, but you're arguing from a point of unproven speculation. We've been victims of a trade war for decades, and that trade war's primary weapon is import tariffs on our goods.

You cannot make the argument that tariffs are objectively bad for the importer when it's the importer who imposes them and the exporters who are complaining every day in the news over it. The real world impact is far different than the simple way you frame it.

 

[Jerico]

I get what you guys are trying to do. Intentionally or not

Bingo! And they end up not paying it. So who really pays for it in the end? China does. That's why China threw a fit over it.

Okay….perhaps you need a basic course in commerce.

If you’re selling me a widget, I am paying you for the widget. You’re not paying me.

The importer in Shawnee Mission, KS is wanting to buy steel from a steel company in Shanghai, China. The importer is paying the steel company; the steel company is not paying the importer.

The tariff that Trump is adding to imports is a tax that the importer is paying; China is not paying a Yuan to anyone.

Simple, don't buy the widget from me any mroe and you don't pay it. Guess who is still paying for it? Me, by losing out on your business.

If you’re losing out on my business, you’re not sending me a widget. It’s not costing you anything except your internal production costs. It doesn’t help me pay for a wall or anything else.

I didn’t go to Wal Mart today. Wal Mart didn’t incur some sort of costs by my not going there.

I think what you’re substituting for cash is some sort of pain fantasy you are hoping to impose on Mexico.

Seriously, explain to me, because the other guy won't, why then these countries are so upset about us having Tariffs now? Surely it's good for them right?...right?

Also, why do all of these countries put huge tariffs on our goods? You'd think would want zero tariffs, but alas they don't. They aren't so ignorant as to think that the buyer is forced to purchase a good with a tariff tax on it.

Again, they impose tariffs to protect their domestic suppliers.

You guys have been arguing that Tariffs cost them not us. How is that costing their suppliers?

I don't know if this is intentional or not, but you both are completely missing my point. You're stuck on the notion that because the buyer is the one handing over the cash that they are forced to absorb the cost. This isn't true. If it were true, no country would ever use tariffs as an economic weapon.

The only way the domestic suppliers are protected is if it is cost prohibitive for us suppliers to compete. There is no other reason. That is exactly my point. It costs the exporter not the country importing. Not necessarily.

Sure prices will go up temporarily, but only until the market readjusts.

Also, the tariffs will be absorbed somehow because this isn't some perfect thought experiment. There always will be someone somewhere buying from canada or China even with the tariff, but the notion that the buyers are somehow going to eat that cost no matter what is ridiculous. The entire nature of tariffs is that they are used to divert trade value through economic friction (taxation).

Nobody wins a trade war. Wise countries don't use it as an economic weapon because of this. Maybe you can learn something from this:

Sorry, but that just refutes your point of view. I've seen that before.

Do you think we've ever had free trade? Do you consider China, and Canada putting tariffs on our goods free trade? NO and Friedman agrees. Free trade must be bilateral or it isn't free trade at all.

Trump realized that, which is why if China and Canada and everyone else doesn't want to abide by free trade policy then neither too will we.

Tariffs are a friction force. Ofcourse having it be zero every where is ideal, but that's n ot how it's been working buddy. We've been letting them have the benefits of free trade while we absorb the cost.

 

[Lesh]

Wait...so how is this trade deal different than the one it replaced?

We sell more milk (3%?) to Canada?

Oh...

 

[Brain357]

It's not a claim, it's a fact. And the fact you don't even know who pays tariffs show's you have no clue. I can't really debate you when you don't even know the basics.

Bullshit. You claim the buyer pays the tariffs. That's your whole angle and you try to use that to strawman my points. This isn't a vacuum with only one product seller. Tariffs on import goods doesn't get borne by us. It just doesn't.

Canadian dairy farmers fume new US trade deal too generous, could cost about $240 million annually

Why is canada upset that they get to pay less in dairy tariffs?


China slashes steel, textile tariffs as Trump ratchets up pressure

Why did China have to be held over the fire to save themselves money on steel by reducing their tariffs?

Canadian dairy farmers don't want competition obviously. You keep talking nonsense.

Thank you. Finally, you agree with me even though you don't realize it.

Why is it that removing the tariff would increase competition if it costs them and not us? Think about it. Seriously, consider that for just a second what you said. Who is really being screwed here? Surely if we compete because tariffs go down and not up, it means that higher tariffs were bad for us, no?

Tariffs always screw the consumer.

Canada and China must love getting screwed then. I'm sorry, but you're arguing from a point of unproven speculation. We've been victims of a trade war for decades, and that trade war's primary weapon is import tariffs on our goods.

You cannot make the argument that tariffs are objectively bad for the importer when it's the importer who imposes them and the exporters who are complaining every day in the news over it. The real world impact is far different than the simple way you frame it.

It has no doubt slowed their economies. They would be much better served with free trade.

 

[candycorn]

You guys have been arguing that Tariffs cost them not us. How is that costing their suppliers?

No, tariffs cost the importer. Their suppliers are worried about their products costing more. There is no cost to a Mexican farmer if we impose tariffs. They may not be able to sell their products here but there is no additional cost to them.

I don't know if this is intentional or not, but you both are completely missing my point. You're stuck on the notion that because the buyer is the one handing over the cash that they are forced to absorb the cost. This isn't true. If it were true, no country would ever use tariffs as an economic weapon.

The buyer pays the costs. Again, using the widget example. If I buy a widget from you, you’re not paying more to sell it to me.

The only way the domestic suppliers are protected is if it is cost prohibitive for us suppliers to compete. There is no other reason. That is exactly my point. It costs the exporter not the country importing. Not necessarily.

Sure prices will go up temporarily, but only until the market readjusts.


Also, the tariffs will be absorbed somehow because this isn't some perfect thought experiment. There always will be someone somewhere buying from canada or China even with the tariff, but the notion that the buyers are somehow going to eat that cost no matter what is ridiculous. The entire nature of tariffs is that they are used to divert trade value through economic friction (taxation).

Again…I believe you have a fundamental mis-understanding of commerce.

The US placing a tariff on imports means that the importer will pay a tax on imports. They will either absorb the costs or pass it along to consumers. If you follow the CPI…you see what is happening. The prices are going up.

What Trump is hoping happens is that the price of imports creates a market for us manufacturers. It’s a pipe dream unless you think some company is going to start paying someone $20 an hour plus benefits to make the widget here when, in hopefully 2 years or maybe 6, the tariffs will be jettisoned when sensible government takes root once more.

 

[Jerico]

Bullshit. You claim the buyer pays the tariffs. That's your whole angle and you try to use that to strawman my points. This isn't a vacuum with only one product seller. Tariffs on import goods doesn't get borne by us. It just doesn't.

Canadian dairy farmers fume new US trade deal too generous, could cost about $240 million annually

Why is canada upset that they get to pay less in dairy tariffs?


China slashes steel, textile tariffs as Trump ratchets up pressure

Why did China have to be held over the fire to save themselves money on steel by reducing their tariffs?

Canadian dairy farmers don't want competition obviously. You keep talking nonsense.

Thank you. Finally, you agree with me even though you don't realize it.

Why is it that removing the tariff would increase competition if it costs them and not us? Think about it. Seriously, consider that for just a second what you said. Who is really being screwed here? Surely if we compete because tariffs go down and not up, it means that higher tariffs were bad for us, no?

Tariffs always screw the consumer.

Canada and China must love getting screwed then. I'm sorry, but you're arguing from a point of unproven speculation. We've been victims of a trade war for decades, and that trade war's primary weapon is import tariffs on our goods.

You cannot make the argument that tariffs are objectively bad for the importer when it's the importer who imposes them and the exporters who are complaining every day in the news over it. The real world impact is far different than the simple way you frame it.

It has no doubt slowed their economies. They would be much better served with free trade.

Then you admit its the exporter bearing the cost? Good, we have no further need to disagree. I'll give benefit of the doubt and assume that this whole time we've merely misunderstood eachother.

You're right that they would be better suited with free trade, too bad they had 30+ years to reciprocate and did not. Now it's time to level the playing field. Notice that after we raised tariffs, China and Canada reduced theirs? It's not a coincidence.

 

[Brain357]

I get what you guys are trying to do. Intentionally or not

Okay….perhaps you need a basic course in commerce.

If you’re selling me a widget, I am paying you for the widget. You’re not paying me.

The importer in Shawnee Mission, KS is wanting to buy steel from a steel company in Shanghai, China. The importer is paying the steel company; the steel company is not paying the importer.

The tariff that Trump is adding to imports is a tax that the importer is paying; China is not paying a Yuan to anyone.

Simple, don't buy the widget from me any mroe and you don't pay it. Guess who is still paying for it? Me, by losing out on your business.

If you’re losing out on my business, you’re not sending me a widget. It’s not costing you anything except your internal production costs. It doesn’t help me pay for a wall or anything else.

I didn’t go to Wal Mart today. Wal Mart didn’t incur some sort of costs by my not going there.

I think what you’re substituting for cash is some sort of pain fantasy you are hoping to impose on Mexico.

Seriously, explain to me, because the other guy won't, why then these countries are so upset about us having Tariffs now? Surely it's good for them right?...right?

Also, why do all of these countries put huge tariffs on our goods? You'd think would want zero tariffs, but alas they don't. They aren't so ignorant as to think that the buyer is forced to purchase a good with a tariff tax on it.

Again, they impose tariffs to protect their domestic suppliers.

You guys have been arguing that Tariffs cost them not us. How is that costing their suppliers?

I don't know if this is intentional or not, but you both are completely missing my point. You're stuck on the notion that because the buyer is the one handing over the cash that they are forced to absorb the cost. This isn't true. If it were true, no country would ever use tariffs as an economic weapon.

The only way the domestic suppliers are protected is if it is cost prohibitive for us suppliers to compete. There is no other reason. That is exactly my point. It costs the exporter not the country importing. Not necessarily.

Sure prices will go up temporarily, but only until the market readjusts.

Also, the tariffs will be absorbed somehow because this isn't some perfect thought experiment. There always will be someone somewhere buying from canada or China even with the tariff, but the notion that the buyers are somehow going to eat that cost no matter what is ridiculous. The entire nature of tariffs is that they are used to divert trade value through economic friction (taxation).

Nobody wins a trade war. Wise countries don't use it as an economic weapon because of this. Maybe you can learn something from this:

Sorry, but that just refutes your point of view. I've seen that before.

Do you think we've ever had free trade? Do you consider China, and Canada putting tariffs on our goods free trade? NO and Friedman agrees. Free trade must be bilateral or it isn't free trade at all.

Trump realized that, which is why if China and Canada and everyone else doesn't want to abide by free trade policy then neither too will we.

Tariffs are a friction force. Ofcourse having it be zero every where is ideal, but that's n ot how it's been working buddy. We've been letting them have the benefits of free trade while we absorb the cost.

Friedman is very clear that we should not have tariffs. Us increasing tariffs makes things worse.

 

[Brain357]

Canadian dairy farmers don't want competition obviously. You keep talking nonsense.

Thank you. Finally, you agree with me even though you don't realize it.

Why is it that removing the tariff would increase competition if it costs them and not us? Think about it. Seriously, consider that for just a second what you said. Who is really being screwed here? Surely if we compete because tariffs go down and not up, it means that higher tariffs were bad for us, no?

Tariffs always screw the consumer.

Canada and China must love getting screwed then. I'm sorry, but you're arguing from a point of unproven speculation. We've been victims of a trade war for decades, and that trade war's primary weapon is import tariffs on our goods.

You cannot make the argument that tariffs are objectively bad for the importer when it's the importer who imposes them and the exporters who are complaining every day in the news over it. The real world impact is far different than the simple way you frame it.

It has no doubt slowed their economies. They would be much better served with free trade.

Then you admit its the exporter bearing the cost? Good, we have no further need to disagree. I'll give benefit of the doubt and assume that this whole time we've merely misunderstood eachother.

You're right that they would be better suited with free trade, too bad they had 30+ years to reciprocate and did not. Now it's time to level the playing field. Notice that after we raised tariffs, China and Canada reduced theirs? It's not a coincidence.

The tariffs are paid for by the importer.

 

[Jerico]

I get what you guys are trying to do. Intentionally or not

Simple, don't buy the widget from me any mroe and you don't pay it. Guess who is still paying for it? Me, by losing out on your business.

If you’re losing out on my business, you’re not sending me a widget. It’s not costing you anything except your internal production costs. It doesn’t help me pay for a wall or anything else.

I didn’t go to Wal Mart today. Wal Mart didn’t incur some sort of costs by my not going there.

I think what you’re substituting for cash is some sort of pain fantasy you are hoping to impose on Mexico.

Seriously, explain to me, because the other guy won't, why then these countries are so upset about us having Tariffs now? Surely it's good for them right?...right?

Also, why do all of these countries put huge tariffs on our goods? You'd think would want zero tariffs, but alas they don't. They aren't so ignorant as to think that the buyer is forced to purchase a good with a tariff tax on it.

Again, they impose tariffs to protect their domestic suppliers.

You guys have been arguing that Tariffs cost them not us. How is that costing their suppliers?

I don't know if this is intentional or not, but you both are completely missing my point. You're stuck on the notion that because the buyer is the one handing over the cash that they are forced to absorb the cost. This isn't true. If it were true, no country would ever use tariffs as an economic weapon.

The only way the domestic suppliers are protected is if it is cost prohibitive for us suppliers to compete. There is no other reason. That is exactly my point. It costs the exporter not the country importing. Not necessarily.

Sure prices will go up temporarily, but only until the market readjusts.

Also, the tariffs will be absorbed somehow because this isn't some perfect thought experiment. There always will be someone somewhere buying from canada or China even with the tariff, but the notion that the buyers are somehow going to eat that cost no matter what is ridiculous. The entire nature of tariffs is that they are used to divert trade value through economic friction (taxation).

Nobody wins a trade war. Wise countries don't use it as an economic weapon because of this. Maybe you can learn something from this:

Sorry, but that just refutes your point of view. I've seen that before.

Do you think we've ever had free trade? Do you consider China, and Canada putting tariffs on our goods free trade? NO and Friedman agrees. Free trade must be bilateral or it isn't free trade at all.

Trump realized that, which is why if China and Canada and everyone else doesn't want to abide by free trade policy then neither too will we.

Tariffs are a friction force. Ofcourse having it be zero every where is ideal, but that's n ot how it's been working buddy. We've been letting them have the benefits of free trade while we absorb the cost.

Friedman is very clear that we should not have tariffs. Us increasing tariffs makes things worse.

Actually Friedman was fine with Tariffs so long as both sides had the same tariff rate. So long as country a and country b cost close to the same, you have a "free" market. Trump, by threatening to match their tariffs, is bringing trade closer to free trade than not by equalizing the tariffs.

 

[Brain357]

I get what you guys are trying to do. Intentionally or not

If you’re losing out on my business, you’re not sending me a widget. It’s not costing you anything except your internal production costs. It doesn’t help me pay for a wall or anything else.

I didn’t go to Wal Mart today. Wal Mart didn’t incur some sort of costs by my not going there.

I think what you’re substituting for cash is some sort of pain fantasy you are hoping to impose on Mexico.

Again, they impose tariffs to protect their domestic suppliers.

You guys have been arguing that Tariffs cost them not us. How is that costing their suppliers?

I don't know if this is intentional or not, but you both are completely missing my point. You're stuck on the notion that because the buyer is the one handing over the cash that they are forced to absorb the cost. This isn't true. If it were true, no country would ever use tariffs as an economic weapon.

The only way the domestic suppliers are protected is if it is cost prohibitive for us suppliers to compete. There is no other reason. That is exactly my point. It costs the exporter not the country importing. Not necessarily.

Sure prices will go up temporarily, but only until the market readjusts.

Also, the tariffs will be absorbed somehow because this isn't some perfect thought experiment. There always will be someone somewhere buying from canada or China even with the tariff, but the notion that the buyers are somehow going to eat that cost no matter what is ridiculous. The entire nature of tariffs is that they are used to divert trade value through economic friction (taxation).

Nobody wins a trade war. Wise countries don't use it as an economic weapon because of this. Maybe you can learn something from this:

Sorry, but that just refutes your point of view. I've seen that before.

Do you think we've ever had free trade? Do you consider China, and Canada putting tariffs on our goods free trade? NO and Friedman agrees. Free trade must be bilateral or it isn't free trade at all.

Trump realized that, which is why if China and Canada and everyone else doesn't want to abide by free trade policy then neither too will we.

Tariffs are a friction force. Ofcourse having it be zero every where is ideal, but that's n ot how it's been working buddy. We've been letting them have the benefits of free trade while we absorb the cost.

Friedman is very clear that we should not have tariffs. Us increasing tariffs makes things worse.

Actually Friedman was fine with Tariffs so long as both sides had the same tariff rate. So long as country a and country b cost close to the same, you have a "free" market. Trump, by threatening to match their tariffs, is bringing trade closer to free trade than not by equalizing the tariffs.

So you think higher taxes is a good thing?

 

[Jerico]

Thank you. Finally, you agree with me even though you don't realize it.

Why is it that removing the tariff would increase competition if it costs them and not us? Think about it. Seriously, consider that for just a second what you said. Who is really being screwed here? Surely if we compete because tariffs go down and not up, it means that higher tariffs were bad for us, no?

Tariffs always screw the consumer.

Canada and China must love getting screwed then. I'm sorry, but you're arguing from a point of unproven speculation. We've been victims of a trade war for decades, and that trade war's primary weapon is import tariffs on our goods.

You cannot make the argument that tariffs are objectively bad for the importer when it's the importer who imposes them and the exporters who are complaining every day in the news over it. The real world impact is far different than the simple way you frame it.

It has no doubt slowed their economies. They would be much better served with free trade.

Then you admit its the exporter bearing the cost? Good, we have no further need to disagree. I'll give benefit of the doubt and assume that this whole time we've merely misunderstood eachother.

You're right that they would be better suited with free trade, too bad they had 30+ years to reciprocate and did not. Now it's time to level the playing field. Notice that after we raised tariffs, China and Canada reduced theirs? It's not a coincidence.

The tariffs are paid for by the importer.

You just said our tariffs have slowed their economy, then you say we are paying for it. We are not. I'm sorry, but we're not.

I think I get your point of view. Really. You think the buyer of the tariffed good is , from an economic point of view, the one who is absorbing the cost of the tariff. I get that. It's naive, but I get it. My point has nothing to do with exchange of dollars though, but you can't seem to see what it is despite my attempts to explain it. I guess we will leave it at that.

 

[Jerico]

I get what you guys are trying to do. Intentionally or not
You guys have been arguing that Tariffs cost them not us. How is that costing their suppliers?

I don't know if this is intentional or not, but you both are completely missing my point. You're stuck on the notion that because the buyer is the one handing over the cash that they are forced to absorb the cost. This isn't true. If it were true, no country would ever use tariffs as an economic weapon.

The only way the domestic suppliers are protected is if it is cost prohibitive for us suppliers to compete. There is no other reason. That is exactly my point. It costs the exporter not the country importing. Not necessarily.

Sure prices will go up temporarily, but only until the market readjusts.

Also, the tariffs will be absorbed somehow because this isn't some perfect thought experiment. There always will be someone somewhere buying from canada or China even with the tariff, but the notion that the buyers are somehow going to eat that cost no matter what is ridiculous. The entire nature of tariffs is that they are used to divert trade value through economic friction (taxation).

Nobody wins a trade war. Wise countries don't use it as an economic weapon because of this. Maybe you can learn something from this:

Sorry, but that just refutes your point of view. I've seen that before.

Do you think we've ever had free trade? Do you consider China, and Canada putting tariffs on our goods free trade? NO and Friedman agrees. Free trade must be bilateral or it isn't free trade at all.

Trump realized that, which is why if China and Canada and everyone else doesn't want to abide by free trade policy then neither too will we.

Tariffs are a friction force. Ofcourse having it be zero every where is ideal, but that's n ot how it's been working buddy. We've been letting them have the benefits of free trade while we absorb the cost.

Friedman is very clear that we should not have tariffs. Us increasing tariffs makes things worse.

Actually Friedman was fine with Tariffs so long as both sides had the same tariff rate. So long as country a and country b cost close to the same, you have a "free" market. Trump, by threatening to match their tariffs, is bringing trade closer to free trade than not by equalizing the tariffs.

So you think higher taxes is a good thing?

If china is "taxing" our steel 25%, we're already paying a tax of sort so if we raise our "tax" to 25% too then yes, I am ok with that. You don't see the benefits of it like I do apparently. To you this is a surface deep problem. To me, it's about market forces and how they adapt to valuation. We are losing out big time by not fighting back.

Seriously, just ask yourself why all of these countries are so upset that we are raising tariffs. It's not because it will harm us more than them...

 

[Brain357]

Tariffs always screw the consumer.

Canada and China must love getting screwed then. I'm sorry, but you're arguing from a point of unproven speculation. We've been victims of a trade war for decades, and that trade war's primary weapon is import tariffs on our goods.

You cannot make the argument that tariffs are objectively bad for the importer when it's the importer who imposes them and the exporters who are complaining every day in the news over it. The real world impact is far different than the simple way you frame it.

It has no doubt slowed their economies. They would be much better served with free trade.

Then you admit its the exporter bearing the cost? Good, we have no further need to disagree. I'll give benefit of the doubt and assume that this whole time we've merely misunderstood eachother.

You're right that they would be better suited with free trade, too bad they had 30+ years to reciprocate and did not. Now it's time to level the playing field. Notice that after we raised tariffs, China and Canada reduced theirs? It's not a coincidence.

The tariffs are paid for by the importer.

You just said our tariffs have slowed their economy, then you say we are paying for it. We are not. I'm sorry, but we're not.

I think I get your point of view. Really. You think the buyer of the tariffed good is , from an economic point of view, the one who is absorbing the cost of the tariff. I get that. It's naive, but I get it. My point has nothing to do with exchange of dollars though, but you can't seem to see what it is despite my attempts to explain it. I guess we will leave it at that.

No, I said their tariffs have slowed their economy. Ours would only slow their economy if we started buying less. That is obviously not happening:

China's trade surplus with US grows to new record in August, adding fuel to trade war fire

 

[Brain357]

Nobody wins a trade war. Wise countries don't use it as an economic weapon because of this. Maybe you can learn something from this:

Sorry, but that just refutes your point of view. I've seen that before.

Do you think we've ever had free trade? Do you consider China, and Canada putting tariffs on our goods free trade? NO and Friedman agrees. Free trade must be bilateral or it isn't free trade at all.

Trump realized that, which is why if China and Canada and everyone else doesn't want to abide by free trade policy then neither too will we.

Tariffs are a friction force. Ofcourse having it be zero every where is ideal, but that's n ot how it's been working buddy. We've been letting them have the benefits of free trade while we absorb the cost.

Friedman is very clear that we should not have tariffs. Us increasing tariffs makes things worse.

Actually Friedman was fine with Tariffs so long as both sides had the same tariff rate. So long as country a and country b cost close to the same, you have a "free" market. Trump, by threatening to match their tariffs, is bringing trade closer to free trade than not by equalizing the tariffs.

So you think higher taxes is a good thing?

If china is "taxing" our steel 25%, we're already paying a tax of sort so if we raise our "tax" to 25% too then yes, I am ok with that. You don't see the benefits of it like I do apparently. To you this is a surface deep problem. To me, it's about market forces and how they adapt to valuation. We are losing out big time by not fighting back.

Seriously, just ask yourself why all of these countries are so upset that we are raising tariffs. It's not because it will harm us more than them...

How upset are they? China is sending record amounts of products to us.

 

[Jerico]

Canada and China must love getting screwed then. I'm sorry, but you're arguing from a point of unproven speculation. We've been victims of a trade war for decades, and that trade war's primary weapon is import tariffs on our goods.

You cannot make the argument that tariffs are objectively bad for the importer when it's the importer who imposes them and the exporters who are complaining every day in the news over it. The real world impact is far different than the simple way you frame it.

It has no doubt slowed their economies. They would be much better served with free trade.

Then you admit its the exporter bearing the cost? Good, we have no further need to disagree. I'll give benefit of the doubt and assume that this whole time we've merely misunderstood eachother.

You're right that they would be better suited with free trade, too bad they had 30+ years to reciprocate and did not. Now it's time to level the playing field. Notice that after we raised tariffs, China and Canada reduced theirs? It's not a coincidence.

The tariffs are paid for by the importer.

You just said our tariffs have slowed their economy, then you say we are paying for it. We are not. I'm sorry, but we're not.

I think I get your point of view. Really. You think the buyer of the tariffed good is , from an economic point of view, the one who is absorbing the cost of the tariff. I get that. It's naive, but I get it. My point has nothing to do with exchange of dollars though, but you can't seem to see what it is despite my attempts to explain it. I guess we will leave it at that.

No, I said their tariffs have slowed their economy. Our would only slow their economy if we started buying less. That is obviously not happening:

China's trade surplus with US grows to new record in August, adding fuel to trade war fire

YOu already quoted that. It seems irrelevant to me. So what if China is doing better on trade? We are too. We're doing way better domestically as well.

Also, why say that their tariffs are hurting their economy? That's false. They've had tariffs on us for decades and they've had the fastest growing economy on earth because of it. It's only now that we have also imposed tariffs that they're lagging.

China upset at high US tariffs on steel imports

China is very upset that we are paying more for steel for some reason. Those good samaritans! They must realize, like you, that we're hurting ourselves and are upset because of it.. or maybe it's something else.

 

[Jerico]

Sorry, but that just refutes your point of view. I've seen that before.

Do you think we've ever had free trade? Do you consider China, and Canada putting tariffs on our goods free trade? NO and Friedman agrees. Free trade must be bilateral or it isn't free trade at all.

Trump realized that, which is why if China and Canada and everyone else doesn't want to abide by free trade policy then neither too will we.

Tariffs are a friction force. Ofcourse having it be zero every where is ideal, but that's n ot how it's been working buddy. We've been letting them have the benefits of free trade while we absorb the cost.

Friedman is very clear that we should not have tariffs. Us increasing tariffs makes things worse.

Actually Friedman was fine with Tariffs so long as both sides had the same tariff rate. So long as country a and country b cost close to the same, you have a "free" market. Trump, by threatening to match their tariffs, is bringing trade closer to free trade than not by equalizing the tariffs.

So you think higher taxes is a good thing?

If china is "taxing" our steel 25%, we're already paying a tax of sort so if we raise our "tax" to 25% too then yes, I am ok with that. You don't see the benefits of it like I do apparently. To you this is a surface deep problem. To me, it's about market forces and how they adapt to valuation. We are losing out big time by not fighting back.

Seriously, just ask yourself why all of these countries are so upset that we are raising tariffs. It's not because it will harm us more than them...

How upset are they? China is sending record amounts of products to us.

Because our economy is also scoring record amounts. We have more money to spend things on. Nobody said we want trade to go to zero. Who said that? If we do well, other countries that do business with us will also do well.

 

[Brain357]

It has no doubt slowed their economies. They would be much better served with free trade.

Then you admit its the exporter bearing the cost? Good, we have no further need to disagree. I'll give benefit of the doubt and assume that this whole time we've merely misunderstood eachother.

You're right that they would be better suited with free trade, too bad they had 30+ years to reciprocate and did not. Now it's time to level the playing field. Notice that after we raised tariffs, China and Canada reduced theirs? It's not a coincidence.

The tariffs are paid for by the importer.

You just said our tariffs have slowed their economy, then you say we are paying for it. We are not. I'm sorry, but we're not.

I think I get your point of view. Really. You think the buyer of the tariffed good is , from an economic point of view, the one who is absorbing the cost of the tariff. I get that. It's naive, but I get it. My point has nothing to do with exchange of dollars though, but you can't seem to see what it is despite my attempts to explain it. I guess we will leave it at that.

No, I said their tariffs have slowed their economy. Our would only slow their economy if we started buying less. That is obviously not happening:

China's trade surplus with US grows to new record in August, adding fuel to trade war fire

YOu already quoted that. It seems irrelevant to me. So what if China is doing better on trade? We are too. We're doing way better domestically as well.

Also, why say that their tariffs are hurting their economy? That's false. They've had tariffs on us for decades and they've had the fastest growing economy on earth because of it. It's only now that we have also imposed tariffs that they're lagging.

China upset at high US tariffs on steel imports

China is very upset that we are paying more for steel for some reason. Those good samaritans! They must realize, like you, that we're hurting ourselves and are upset because of it.. or maybe it's something else.

You think their economy has been fast growing because of tariffs? That is funny. We don't buy from them because they put tariffs on our goods. How are tariffs helping their economy?

 

[candycorn]

What is also not accounted for is that when we have a deficit with a nation, it may not be because they are robbing us blind as some think. If this is the case, Wal Mart has a trade deficit with everyone who shops there. Few consumers sell anything to Wal Mart.

It is the same with nations. Do they automatically need what we are exporting? To think that a nation needs what we manufacture just because we need what they manufacture is pretty silly. We’re good at making cars here for example. Afghanistan has a lot of raw materials. Are we to expect them to buy enough cars to equal or exceed what they sell us?

Why America Can't Just Make Everything It Needs

Give it some thought.

 

[Jerico]

Then you admit its the exporter bearing the cost? Good, we have no further need to disagree. I'll give benefit of the doubt and assume that this whole time we've merely misunderstood eachother.

You're right that they would be better suited with free trade, too bad they had 30+ years to reciprocate and did not. Now it's time to level the playing field. Notice that after we raised tariffs, China and Canada reduced theirs? It's not a coincidence.

The tariffs are paid for by the importer.

You just said our tariffs have slowed their economy, then you say we are paying for it. We are not. I'm sorry, but we're not.

I think I get your point of view. Really. You think the buyer of the tariffed good is , from an economic point of view, the one who is absorbing the cost of the tariff. I get that. It's naive, but I get it. My point has nothing to do with exchange of dollars though, but you can't seem to see what it is despite my attempts to explain it. I guess we will leave it at that.

No, I said their tariffs have slowed their economy. Our would only slow their economy if we started buying less. That is obviously not happening:

China's trade surplus with US grows to new record in August, adding fuel to trade war fire

YOu already quoted that. It seems irrelevant to me. So what if China is doing better on trade? We are too. We're doing way better domestically as well.

Also, why say that their tariffs are hurting their economy? That's false. They've had tariffs on us for decades and they've had the fastest growing economy on earth because of it. It's only now that we have also imposed tariffs that they're lagging.

China upset at high US tariffs on steel imports

China is very upset that we are paying more for steel for some reason. Those good samaritans! They must realize, like you, that we're hurting ourselves and are upset because of it.. or maybe it's something else.

You think their economy has been fast growing because of tariffs? That is funny. We don't buy from them because they put tariffs on our goods. How are tariffs helping their economy?

Because their tariffs hurt us more than it hurts them. Pretty simple. LIke our tariffs will hurt them more than us ( what I've been saying all along).

China is built upon having a trade deficit with us. They want to keep our goods out by making it too expensive for us to do business there, and abuse the fact that we have no such protection against their goods. It's been a one way economic robbery for decades.