Truthers, how was this engine planted?

[Fizz]

The immediate suppression of eyewitness testimonies,

proof please

precise manner of expediting materials of the collapses out of america

how is this evidence of explosives?

the lack of testing (how did NIST/FBI know if terrorists didn't combine explosives with the hijackings?) for explosives,

prove there was no testing please.

a few years ago I had wondered if the towers had been designed in some way to come straight down in the off chance of some type of event. Placing two 110 story buildings in the middle of a metropolis without that consideration would seem irresponsible know how many other buildings and people would be killed by a horizontal collapse versus a vertical one.

the buildings would be designed to STAY UP in an "event"... not collapse down. that would be much safer dont you think?

 

[Gamolon]

You still don't get it. If the planes themselves were sufficient to cause enough damage for the collapse then you can't simultaneously claim it would take tons of explosives to accomplish what a single plane crash could do.

IT WASN'T THE PLANES ALONE.

Whether you want to believe it or not, weakening steel to a point of failure due to fire/heat has the same result as severing a column with explosives or thermite. The fire/heat scenario just takes longer. The heat weakens the steel to a point where the weight/stresses are greater than the steel's ability to support/resist it, thus it fails. Not to mention the fact that the actual impact of the planes REMOVED some of the perimeter columns and possibly some of the core columns altogether. After the impact, the other columns/supports/connections have to pick up the weight that is no longer supported by the removed columns. Now add in fires that weakened the columns/trusses/connections. It all adds up to structural failure.

After this argument, people want to bring up the fact that no other steel skyscaper has ever collapsed due to fire. Ok, you want to make that comparison, then we have to compare apples to apples. Show me another skyscraper of 100 floors, using a tube in tube design that the towers used, and that was struck by a plane. If you can find one that had these characteristics and stood after, then we have an argument.

The term "planes alone" means nothing else (ie explosives) was used to bring down the towers. As for the design, could you link the exact blueprints of the towers? If not, your argument focusing on the design is self defeating.

No, but NIST did. Mr. Robertson's firm was involved in the study done by them.

 

[Gamolon]

a few years ago I had wondered if the towers had been designed in some way to come straight down in the off chance of some type of event. Placing two 110 story buildings in the middle of a metropolis without that consideration would seem irresponsible know how many other buildings and people would be killed by a horizontal collapse versus a vertical one.

the buildings would be designed to STAY UP in an "event"... not collapse down. that would be much safer dont you think?

Great point. They were designed to withstand in impact of a plane lost in fog, not a plane intent on smashing into them for purpose of smashing into them. Why would you design a tower to collapse???

 

[CurveLight]

I didn't ask you to choose an explanation. I asked you what evidence have you seen that makes explosives a plausible possibility?

The immediate suppression of eyewitness testimonies, precise manner of expediting materials of the collapses out of america, the lack of testing (how did NIST/FBI know if terrorists didn't combine explosives with the hijackings?) for explosives, the long struggle (seven years and several agencies for wtc 7 alone) to conclusively establish how all three buildings collapsed, the refusal of allowing independent verification of NIST's claims, and the peer reviews by experts such as Dr. Q of stating NIST has failed to prove how the collapses occurred, and the manner in how all the buildings came down. (Plus my magic 8 Ball and the new toy I found in cocoa pebbles.
) a few years ago I had wondered if the towers had been designed in some way to come straight down in the off chance of some type of event. Placing two 110 story buildings in the middle of a metropolis without that consideration would seem irresponsible know how many other buildings and people would be killed by a horizontal collapse versus a vertical one.

How does any of the above provide evidence that explosives were used??? For example. How can Dr. Q disagreeing with NIST's explanation as to how the towers collapsed provide be used as evidence that explosives are plausible?

You asked what I see as evidence to the plausibility of explosives. I gave examples. You can agree or disagree. Please understand these examples are indicative of a pattern and none in themselves are evidence. You can't separate my reference of Dr Q and ignore the rest of it. But his work is referenced mainly because he point blank argues NIST has not found definitive cause.

 

[CurveLight]

The immediate suppression of eyewitness testimonies,

proof please

precise manner of expediting materials of the collapses out of america

how is this evidence of explosives?

the lack of testing (how did NIST/FBI know if terrorists didn't combine explosives with the hijackings?) for explosives,

prove there was no testing please.

a few years ago I had wondered if the towers had been designed in some way to come straight down in the off chance of some type of event. Placing two 110 story buildings in the middle of a metropolis without that consideration would seem irresponsible know how many other buildings and people would be killed by a horizontal collapse versus a vertical one.

the buildings would be designed to STAY UP in an "event"... not collapse down. that would be much safer dont you think?

You have yet to provide any actual evidence 95% of flight 93 being recovered. You have not provided any evidence the op pic is of an engine from flight 93 but you demand others provide evidence? I'll be nice and help educate you some more on one point but until you prove or retract your above claims all requests of evidence from you will be ignored.

"Was the steel tested for explosives or thermite residues?"

"NIST did not test for the residue of these compounds in the steel."
Http://www.wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

That info has been public for about four years. I'm guessing you will respond by parroting NIST's bullshit for why they didn't test but the fact remains I said they did not test for explosives and as proven, they did not.

 

[CurveLight]

IT WASN'T THE PLANES ALONE.

Whether you want to believe it or not, weakening steel to a point of failure due to fire/heat has the same result as severing a column with explosives or thermite. The fire/heat scenario just takes longer. The heat weakens the steel to a point where the weight/stresses are greater than the steel's ability to support/resist it, thus it fails. Not to mention the fact that the actual impact of the planes REMOVED some of the perimeter columns and possibly some of the core columns altogether. After the impact, the other columns/supports/connections have to pick up the weight that is no longer supported by the removed columns. Now add in fires that weakened the columns/trusses/connections. It all adds up to structural failure.

After this argument, people want to bring up the fact that no other steel skyscaper has ever collapsed due to fire. Ok, you want to make that comparison, then we have to compare apples to apples. Show me another skyscraper of 100 floors, using a tube in tube design that the towers used, and that was struck by a plane. If you can find one that had these characteristics and stood after, then we have an argument.

The term "planes alone" means nothing else (ie explosives) was used to bring down the towers. As for the design, could you link the exact blueprints of the towers? If not, your argument focusing on the design is self defeating.

No, but NIST did. Mr. Robertson's firm was involved in the study done by them.

That is a double whammy on the fallacy of appeal to authority. You are saying we should believe the government's claim its conclusion supports its premise on the basis the government has said so. You are also ignoring experts, such as Dr. Q, disagrees with NIST's findings and that they have ignored Dr. Q's questions as well as refuse accountability by not letting other experts examine the same evidence they have used to reach their conclusions.

 

[Fizz]

That is a double whammy on the fallacy of appeal to authority. You are saying we should believe the government's claim its conclusion supports its premise on the basis the government has said so. You are also ignoring experts, such as Dr. Q, disagrees with NIST's findings and that they have ignored Dr. Q's questions as well as refuse accountability by not letting other experts examine the same evidence they have used to reach their conclusions.

the double whammy would be that you have no evidence... none at all... that the experts at the NIST are not correct and no evidence there is a huge government conspiracy.

 

[CurveLight]

That is a double whammy on the fallacy of appeal to authority. You are saying we should believe the government's claim its conclusion supports its premise on the basis the government has said so. You are also ignoring experts, such as Dr. Q, disagrees with NIST's findings and that they have ignored Dr. Q's questions as well as refuse accountability by not letting other experts examine the same evidence they have used to reach their conclusions.

the double whammy would be that you have no evidence... none at all... that the experts at the NIST are not correct and no evidence there is a huge government conspiracy.

You can hardly claim notable experts calling for a new investigation and pointing out NIST failed "no evidence." This is why it is almost pointless to debate the issue with you. I've never claimed some huge government conspiracy but you want to derail by going cuckoo on ad homs.

 

[eots]

That is a double whammy on the fallacy of appeal to authority. You are saying we should believe the government's claim its conclusion supports its premise on the basis the government has said so. You are also ignoring experts, such as Dr. Q, disagrees with NIST's findings and that they have ignored Dr. Q's questions as well as refuse accountability by not letting other experts examine the same evidence they have used to reach their conclusions.

the double whammy would be that you have no evidence... none at all... that the experts at the NIST are not correct and no evidence there is a huge government conspiracy.

thats why a proper investigation is required there is no proof NIST findings are correct and there is evidence and very credible testimony that suggest they are not

 

[CurveLight]

That is a double whammy on the fallacy of appeal to authority. You are saying we should believe the government's claim its conclusion supports its premise on the basis the government has said so. You are also ignoring experts, such as Dr. Q, disagrees with NIST's findings and that they have ignored Dr. Q's questions as well as refuse accountability by not letting other experts examine the same evidence they have used to reach their conclusions.

the double whammy would be that you have no evidence... none at all... that the experts at the NIST are not correct and no evidence there is a huge government conspiracy.

thats why a proper investigation is required there is no proof NIST findings are correct and there is evidence and very credible testimony that suggest they are not

I bet if we started a rumor that obushama had a role in NIST's Report we would suddenly see a lot of hands screaming for a new investigation.

 

[DiveCon]

the double whammy would be that you have no evidence... none at all... that the experts at the NIST are not correct and no evidence there is a huge government conspiracy.

thats why a proper investigation is required there is no proof NIST findings are correct and there is evidence and very credible testimony that suggest they are not

I bet if we started a rumor that obushama had a role in NIST's Report we would suddenly see a lot of hands screaming for a new investigation.

ROFLMAO
do that and you lose a bunch of the libs that worship the ground he walks on and only supported you because it was anti-bush

 

[Tom Clancy]

the double whammy would be that you have no evidence... none at all... that the experts at the NIST are not correct and no evidence there is a huge government conspiracy.

thats why a proper investigation is required there is no proof NIST findings are correct and there is evidence and very credible testimony that suggest they are not

I bet if we started a rumor that obushama had a role in NIST's Report we would suddenly see a lot of hands screaming for a new investigation.

I Officially nominate this post for the most Idiotic Post of the Year.

 

[emilynghiem]

If you think no plane crashed in Shanksville, then how did they plant this engine?

Photograph of an airplane part found in the crater at the scene in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, where Flight 93 crashed - U.S.D.C. Eastern District of Virginia

Probably the same team that planted dinosaur bones in the earth to fool the scientists.
Or who shot scenes of the moon on Hollywood sets to get NASA more funding.

J/K
My serious respects and prayers to the families of Flight 93, whose losses and legacy are real, regardless of personal beliefs or disbeliefs in the causes of the 9/11 tragedies. May more of the focus always be on positive prevention and outreach, and not on political division which fuels the very anger that went into the original and subsequent "attacks."

Love and peace to all concerned about 9/11, its causes as well as its effects on all of us.
http://www.houstonprogressive.org
http://www.houstonprogressive.org

 

[emilynghiem]

You asked what I see as evidence to the plausibility of explosives. I gave examples. You can agree or disagree. Please understand these examples are indicative of a pattern and none in themselves are evidence. You can't separate my reference of Dr Q and ignore the rest of it. But his work is referenced mainly because he point blank argues NIST has not found definitive cause.

Dear Curvelight, I will backtrack and start here where you entertain the possibility of using both planes and explosives. Can you please explain how the planes were so carefully synchronized to hit at the exact PLACE and TIME as the explosives going off? We can't even get Republicans and Democrats on the same page at the same time. How could these planes and explosives be so perfectly synchronized, or was the footage altered too?

True, that anything is possible unless proven otherwise. That plane engine could well be an altered or imported image from anywhere. But the hole left in the families' hearts for their loved ones is real and undeniable. Even if we disagree on the facts, the need for forgiveness and healing is universal, and that part we can all contribute to. Or we can continue to pour more jet fuel on the fire, which doesn't help pay the health care bills for thousands of emergency responders still suffering or dying from ill effects after 9/11.

At what point is the expense of digging into the details no longer worth it, and those resources could better be invested helping people affected by 9/11 regardless of blame.

 

[CurveLight]

If you think no plane crashed in Shanksville, then how did they plant this engine?

Photograph of an airplane part found in the crater at the scene in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, where Flight 93 crashed - U.S.D.C. Eastern District of Virginia

Probably the same team that planted dinosaur bones in the earth to fool the scientists.
Or who shot scenes of the moon on Hollywood sets to get NASA more funding.

J/K
My serious respects and prayers to the families of Flight 93, whose losses and legacy are real, regardless of personal beliefs or disbeliefs in the causes of the 9/11 tragedies. May more of the focus always be on positive prevention and outreach, and not on political division which fuels the very anger that went into the original and subsequent "attacks."

Love and peace to all concerned about 9/11, its causes as well as its effects on all of us.
http://www.houstonprogressive.org
http://www.houstonprogressive.org

The only way to prevent it in the future is to ask the questions you're advocating we ignore.

 

[emilynghiem]

If you think no plane crashed in Shanksville, then how did they plant this engine?

Photograph of an airplane part found in the crater at the scene in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, where Flight 93 crashed - U.S.D.C. Eastern District of Virginia

Probably the same team that planted dinosaur bones in the earth to fool the scientists.
Or who shot scenes of the moon on Hollywood sets to get NASA more funding.

J/K
My serious respects and prayers to the families of Flight 93, whose losses and legacy are real, regardless of personal beliefs or disbeliefs in the causes of the 9/11 tragedies. May more of the focus always be on positive prevention and outreach, and not on political division which fuels the very anger that went into the original and subsequent "attacks."

Love and peace to all concerned about 9/11, its causes as well as its effects on all of us.
http://www.houstonprogressive.org
http://www.houstonprogressive.org

The only way to prevent it in the future is to ask the questions you're advocating we ignore.

I don't advocate to ignore or deny, but to explore in a cooperative environment of "forgiveness" "healing" and "correction" instead of projecting blame back and forth. I believe it is healthy to question and research in a constructive manner, but not to go to such extremes that it creates an equal and opposite resistance that wastes resources.

In the spirit of forgiveness, I believe truth can be uncovered and agreed upon which sets us all free. Not by denial or ignorance, but mutual acceptance of equal responsibility.

Please continue. I posted a question for you that I would like to hear your answer on, in this spirit of seeking correction and full accountability as I believe is your intent to pursue.

 

[CurveLight]

You asked what I see as evidence to the plausibility of explosives. I gave examples. You can agree or disagree. Please understand these examples are indicative of a pattern and none in themselves are evidence. You can't separate my reference of Dr Q and ignore the rest of it. But his work is referenced mainly because he point blank argues NIST has not found definitive cause.

Dear Curvelight, I will backtrack and start here where you entertain the possibility of using both planes and explosives. Can you please explain how the planes were so carefully synchronized to hit at the exact PLACE and TIME as the explosives going off? We can't even get Republicans and Democrats on the same page at the same time. How could these planes and explosives be so perfectly synchronized, or was the footage altered too?

True, that anything is possible unless proven otherwise. That plane engine could well be an altered or imported image from anywhere. But the hole left in the families' hearts for their loved ones is real and undeniable. Even if we disagree on the facts, the need for forgiveness and healing is universal, and that part we can all contribute to. Or we can continue to pour more jet fuel on the fire, which doesn't help pay the health care bills for thousands of emergency responders still suffering or dying from ill effects after 9/11.

At what point is the expense of digging into the details no longer worth it, and those resources could better be invested helping people affected by 9/11 regardless of blame.

I never claimed the planes would have to in sync with explosives. I don't even know where you come up with that. I've also never claimed explosives were used. Please read back through my posts so you don't ask me questions about claims I have not made.

 

[eots]

You asked what I see as evidence to the plausibility of explosives. I gave examples. You can agree or disagree. Please understand these examples are indicative of a pattern and none in themselves are evidence. You can't separate my reference of Dr Q and ignore the rest of it. But his work is referenced mainly because he point blank argues NIST has not found definitive cause.

Dear Curvelight, I will backtrack and start here where you entertain the possibility of using both planes and explosives. Can you please explain how the planes were so carefully synchronized to hit at the exact PLACE and TIME as the explosives going off? We can't even get Republicans and Democrats on the same page at the same time. How could these planes and explosives be so perfectly synchronized, or was the footage altered too?

True, that anything is possible unless proven otherwise. That plane engine could well be an altered or imported image from anywhere. But the hole left in the families' hearts for their loved ones is real and undeniable. Even if we disagree on the facts, the need for forgiveness and healing is universal, and that part we can all contribute to. Or we can continue to pour more jet fuel on the fire, which doesn't help pay the health care bills for thousands of emergency responders still suffering or dying from ill effects after 9/11.

At what point is the expense of digging into the details no longer worth it, and those resources could better be invested helping people affected by 9/11 regardless of blame.

the biggest and most vocal of supporters for first responders is we are change a 9/11 truth group

and regardless of how many years it takes justice must be served you dont abandon a mass murder investigation

 

[eots]

If you think no plane crashed in Shanksville, then how did they plant this engine?

Photograph of an airplane part found in the crater at the scene in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, where Flight 93 crashed - U.S.D.C. Eastern District of Virginia

Probably the same team that planted dinosaur bones in the earth to fool the scientists.
Or who shot scenes of the moon on Hollywood sets to get NASA more funding.

J/K
My serious respects and prayers to the families of Flight 93, whose losses and legacy are real, regardless of personal beliefs or disbeliefs in the causes of the 9/11 tragedies. May more of the focus always be on positive prevention and outreach, and not on political division which fuels the very anger that went into the original and subsequent "attacks."

Love and peace to all concerned about 9/11, its causes as well as its effects on all of us.
http://www.houstonprogressive.org
http://www.houstonprogressive.org

you really should inform yourself because you clearly have not

 

[Fizz]

in the past 9 years with thousands of people scouring millions of photopgraphs and studying thousands of hours of video frame by frame plus any other evidence has anyone come up with anything proving that the official version of events is not correct?

people asking for a new investigation isnt evidence that the official version is incorrect.