Two New Yorkers who moved to my area saw explosions bring down World Trade Centers

[Gamolon]

What are your thoughts on why there's no mention of its collapse in the 9/11 Commission's "full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks?"

Because it was addressed in a separate report? Why do there have to be any "thoughts" on why the Commission Report didn't contain an account of the collapses when there were separate reports/studies done on these?

 

[Gamolon]

George, care to discuss the above?

Thass some silly shit. Rodriguez didn't see the guy coming till after the second rumble/explosion because he (the skinless guy) was in an elevator.

Incorrect as usual.




You didn't answer the question. Why did William first describe the noises he heard as "rumbles, like someone moving large furniture" right after the event when it was still very fresh in his mind and then change the description to "a massive explosion the shook the basement floor?

So the question is what explosion occurred to make the guy's skin come off? It must have happened before he got in the elevator.

Here is William's quote from a CNN transcript:

RODRIGUEZ: I was in the basement, which is the support floor for the maintenance company, and we hear like a big rumble. Not like an impact, like a rumble, like moving furniture in a massive way. And all of sudden we hear another rumble, and a guy comes running, running into our office, and all of skin was off his body. All of the skin.

Why wasn't the guy, who was standing in FRONT of the elevator, screaming after the first explosion if it was that one that hit him? Why does William make the distinction that AFTER the second "rumble" is when the guy came in screaming with skin hanging off of him?

Here is a video of Anthony Saltalamacchia talking about that day:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNfM-le7t6g]YouTube - Fabled Enemies Extras: 9/11 Survivor Anthony Saltalamacchia On WTC Bombs (part 1/3)[/ame]

Explain something to me. At about 4:11, Anthony says there was a massive explosion that knocked them off their feet". Can you explain why William, in his CNN transcript, said that the noises were "like a rumble, NOT like an impact"? Why the two very different descriptions? Why does William change his story at later times to be "massive explosions"?

George? 9/11? Anyone?

 

[Gamolon]

87 by 135 feet and contained 47 steel columns running from the bedrock to the top of the tower," what moved the tons of steel and concrete out of the way after the initiation of

Moved it away? Can you then explain your claim that it was all "moved away" when i have a picture that shows part of the core still standing AFTER the floors around the core have collapsed away?

a collapse that traveled 90 floors in only 10 seconds?

You have been shown that 10 seconds is incorrect. Why do you keep using that number?

 

[DiveCon]

The bolded part is incorrect and you've been shown this numerous times. Why do you keep saying it completely collapsed in less than 7 seconds? Is the mechanical penthouse not part of the building for some reason or do you just not include it because it helps your story out?

What's your best guess for the collapse time of WTC 7?

Here's my source....Where is yours?

My best guess and source for the COMPLETE collapse time? How about video evidence? Like this one. This shows at least 13 seconds from the start of the penthouse initiation. That's double what you guys claim. Why do you leave out the penthouse portion?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k6GMddY-lQ]YouTube - Collapse of WTC7[/ame]

or

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNlqk_c-yOo&feature=PlayList&p=358CE055A9B86F09&playnext_from=PL&index=0&playnext=1]YouTube - WTC7 collapse, BBC News 24, 17:34, 9/11[/ame]

Can you tell me why the truthers leave out the penthouse?

because it shows what a bunch of LIARS they are

 

[georgephillip]

The bolded part is incorrect and you've been shown this numerous times. Why do you keep saying it completely collapsed in less than 7 seconds? Is the mechanical penthouse not part of the building for some reason or do you just not include it because it helps your story out?

What's your best guess for the collapse time of WTC 7?

Here's my source....Where is yours?

My best guess and source for the COMPLETE collapse time? How about video evidence? Like this one. This shows at least 13 seconds from the start of the penthouse initiation. That's double what you guys claim. Why do you leave out the penthouse portion?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k6GMddY-lQ]YouTube - Collapse of WTC7[/ame]

or

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNlqk_c-yOo&feature=PlayList&p=358CE055A9B86F09&playnext_from=PL&index=0&playnext=1]YouTube - WTC7 collapse, BBC News 24, 17:34, 9/11[/ame]

Can you tell me why the truthers leave out the penthouse?

How conclusive is video evidence that doesn't reveal ground level?

In your first video I see partial collapse of the penthouse begin between 6-8 seconds. I see the entire 47 story building begin its vertical collapse at about 13 seconds and it disappears from view between 18-19 seconds.

If you had tossed Phil Zelikow from the roof of the mechanical penthouse on WTC7 at sunrise on 9/11/2001 he would have required about 6.34 seconds to reach ground level.

The entire 47-story tower was supported by 24 core columns and 57 perimeter columns. Believing random fires caused the entire building to collapse straight downward means you believe the fires caused all 81 steel columns to fail at exactly the same instant.

Do you believe that?
Do you think it's likely Phil does?
How about Larry Silverstein?

 

[DiveCon]

What's your best guess for the collapse time of WTC 7?

Here's my source....Where is yours?

My best guess and source for the COMPLETE collapse time? How about video evidence? Like this one. This shows at least 13 seconds from the start of the penthouse initiation. That's double what you guys claim. Why do you leave out the penthouse portion?
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k6GMddY-lQ"]YouTube - Collapse of WTC7[/ame]

or

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNlqk_c-yOo&feature=PlayList&p=358CE055A9B86F09&playnext_from=PL&index=0&playnext=1"]YouTube - WTC7 collapse, BBC News 24, 17:34, 9/11[/ame]

Can you tell me why the truthers leave out the penthouse?

How conclusive is video evidence that doesn't reveal ground level?

In your first video I see partial collapse of the penthouse begin between 6-8 seconds. I see the entire 47 story building begin its vertical collapse at about 13 seconds and it disappears from view between 18-19 seconds.

If you had tossed Phil Zelikow from the roof of the mechanical penthouse on WTC7 at sunrise on 9/11/2001 he would have required about 6.34 seconds to reach ground level.

The entire 47-story tower was supported by 24 core columns and 57 perimeter columns. Believing random fires caused the entire building to collapse straight downward means you believe the fires caused all 81 steel columns to fail at exactly the same instant.

Do you believe that?
Do you think it's likely Phil does?
How about Larry Silverstein?

WOW, more of the delusional bullshit from a troofer
it wouldnt require ALL columns to fail at the same time, just enough to begin the collapse gravity would have over come the remaining columns by putting more stress on them than they were capable of holding

 

[slackjawed]

What's your best guess for the collapse time of WTC 7?

Here's my source....Where is yours?

My best guess and source for the COMPLETE collapse time? How about video evidence? Like this one. This shows at least 13 seconds from the start of the penthouse initiation. That's double what you guys claim. Why do you leave out the penthouse portion?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k6GMddY-lQ]YouTube - Collapse of WTC7[/ame]

or

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNlqk_c-yOo&feature=PlayList&p=358CE055A9B86F09&playnext_from=PL&index=0&playnext=1]YouTube - WTC7 collapse, BBC News 24, 17:34, 9/11[/ame]

Can you tell me why the truthers leave out the penthouse?

How conclusive is video evidence that doesn't reveal ground level?

In your first video I see partial collapse of the penthouse begin between 6-8 seconds. I see the entire 47 story building begin its vertical collapse at about 13 seconds and it disappears from view between 18-19 seconds.

If you had tossed Phil Zelikow from the roof of the mechanical penthouse on WTC7 at sunrise on 9/11/2001 he would have required about 6.34 seconds to reach ground level.

The entire 47-story tower was supported by 24 core columns and 57 perimeter columns. Believing random fires caused the entire building to collapse straight downward means you believe the fires caused all 81 steel columns to fail at exactly the same instant.

Do you believe that?
Do you think it's likely Phil does?
How about Larry Silverstein?

I don't believe that one can accurately time this event from a youtube video. There were likely a lot of things that happened inside out of the view of the the video prior to what could be seen outside.

More assumptions based on the old "I want to believe the conspiracy theory" syndrome.

Your profile says your from LA, just like agent chri$$y.
Is there something being put in the water there to cause brain damage?

It sure seems like it........

 

[DiveCon]

My best guess and source for the COMPLETE collapse time? How about video evidence? Like this one. This shows at least 13 seconds from the start of the penthouse initiation. That's double what you guys claim. Why do you leave out the penthouse portion?
YouTube - Collapse of WTC7

or

YouTube - WTC7 collapse, BBC News 24, 17:34, 9/11

Can you tell me why the truthers leave out the penthouse?

How conclusive is video evidence that doesn't reveal ground level?

In your first video I see partial collapse of the penthouse begin between 6-8 seconds. I see the entire 47 story building begin its vertical collapse at about 13 seconds and it disappears from view between 18-19 seconds.

If you had tossed Phil Zelikow from the roof of the mechanical penthouse on WTC7 at sunrise on 9/11/2001 he would have required about 6.34 seconds to reach ground level.

The entire 47-story tower was supported by 24 core columns and 57 perimeter columns. Believing random fires caused the entire building to collapse straight downward means you believe the fires caused all 81 steel columns to fail at exactly the same instant.

Do you believe that?
Do you think it's likely Phil does?
How about Larry Silverstein?

I don't believe that one can accurately time this event from a youtube video. There were likely a lot of things that happened inside out of the view of the the video prior to what could be seen outside.

More assumptions based on the old "I want to believe the conspiracy theory" syndrome.

Your profile says your from LA, just like agent chri$$y.
Is there something being put in the water there to cause brain damage?

It sure seems like it........

well, christophera is from Santa Barbara

 

[slackjawed]

How conclusive is video evidence that doesn't reveal ground level?

In your first video I see partial collapse of the penthouse begin between 6-8 seconds. I see the entire 47 story building begin its vertical collapse at about 13 seconds and it disappears from view between 18-19 seconds.

If you had tossed Phil Zelikow from the roof of the mechanical penthouse on WTC7 at sunrise on 9/11/2001 he would have required about 6.34 seconds to reach ground level.

The entire 47-story tower was supported by 24 core columns and 57 perimeter columns. Believing random fires caused the entire building to collapse straight downward means you believe the fires caused all 81 steel columns to fail at exactly the same instant.

Do you believe that?
Do you think it's likely Phil does?
How about Larry Silverstein?

I don't believe that one can accurately time this event from a youtube video. There were likely a lot of things that happened inside out of the view of the the video prior to what could be seen outside.

More assumptions based on the old "I want to believe the conspiracy theory" syndrome.

Your profile says your from LA, just like agent chri$$y.
Is there something being put in the water there to cause brain damage?

It sure seems like it........

well, christophera is from Santa Barbara

close enough.

 

[Gamolon]

What's your best guess for the collapse time of WTC 7?

Here's my source....Where is yours?

My best guess and source for the COMPLETE collapse time? How about video evidence? Like this one. This shows at least 13 seconds from the start of the penthouse initiation. That's double what you guys claim. Why do you leave out the penthouse portion?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k6GMddY-lQ]YouTube - Collapse of WTC7[/ame]

or

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNlqk_c-yOo&feature=PlayList&p=358CE055A9B86F09&playnext_from=PL&index=0&playnext=1]YouTube - WTC7 collapse, BBC News 24, 17:34, 9/11[/ame]

Can you tell me why the truthers leave out the penthouse?

How conclusive is video evidence that doesn't reveal ground level?

Look at what you write below.

In your first video I see partial collapse of the penthouse begin between 6-8 seconds. I see the entire 47 story building begin its vertical collapse at about 13 seconds and it disappears from view between 18-19 seconds.

The collapse initiates with the penthouse at 6 seconds. Then you say the ENTIRE 47 story building started at 13 seconds. Do you see the pieces of the penthouse falling inside the building AFTER the penthouse started it's collapse? It didn't just fall into the building at 6 seconds and stop there. In this next video, in the very beginning. do you see the broken windows up the face of the building?
YouTube - wtc7 collapse

Do you know what caused those broken windows? Here's a better video that shows the windows shatter as the penthouse structure in side collapses.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkOGkdNq13k]YouTube - WTC7 NIST Clip with east penthouse[/ame]

So during the penthouse collapse initiation and the time the rest of the building begins to fall, the penthouse structure is damaging the rest of the structure as it falls inside the building. So in the first video the penthouse starts to collapse at :06 and continues until :13 seconds when the roof line starts to drop. That's 7 seconds in itself. Then from 13 to 18 is another 5 seconds and we don't even see the ground level!!! That would add even more time. So you now have 12 seconds. DOUBLE of what you guys claim as 6 seconds.

If you had tossed Phil Zelikow from the roof of the mechanical penthouse on WTC7 at sunrise on 9/11/2001 he would have required about 6.34 seconds to reach ground level.

Sorry but Phil would be considered ONE ENTITY falling. He wouldn't have fallen in sections would he? What you fail to grasp is that the penthouse was part of the ENTIRE structure that fell separately which is why you claiming that the ENTIRE building fell in 6 seconds is incorrect. Let's use your analogy above with Phil. What if Phil's leg fell off and fell to the ground. Then his other leg. Then his right arm. Then his left arm. Then the rest of him. What part of that sequence would you use to show someone how long it took for Phil to reach the ground from the top of that 47 story building?

IThe entire 47-story tower was supported by 24 core columns and 57 perimeter columns. Believing random fires caused the entire building to collapse straight downward means you believe the fires caused all 81 steel columns to fail at exactly the same instant.

I bolded the important part of your quote. After seeing the numerous videos that show the penthouse collapsing first, how can you continue to say that all 81 steel columns failed at the exact same time? Let me ask you this. Watch this next video.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-WvQbFMIWU]YouTube - Tencza apartments controlled demolition[/ame]

Did they cut the columns all at the same time?

 

[georgephillip]

My best guess and source for the COMPLETE collapse time? How about video evidence? Like this one. This shows at least 13 seconds from the start of the penthouse initiation. That's double what you guys claim. Why do you leave out the penthouse portion?
YouTube - Collapse of WTC7

or

YouTube - WTC7 collapse, BBC News 24, 17:34, 9/11

Can you tell me why the truthers leave out the penthouse?

How conclusive is video evidence that doesn't reveal ground level?

Look at what you write below.



The collapse initiates with the penthouse at 6 seconds. Then you say the ENTIRE 47 story building started at 13 seconds. Do you see the pieces of the penthouse falling inside the building AFTER the penthouse started it's collapse? It didn't just fall into the building at 6 seconds and stop there. In this next video, in the very beginning. do you see the broken windows up the face of the building?
YouTube - wtc7 collapse

Do you know what caused those broken windows? Here's a better video that shows the windows shatter as the penthouse structure in side collapses.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkOGkdNq13k]YouTube - WTC7 NIST Clip with east penthouse[/ame]

So during the penthouse collapse initiation and the time the rest of the building begins to fall, the penthouse structure is damaging the rest of the structure as it falls inside the building. So in the first video the penthouse starts to collapse at :06 and continues until :13 seconds when the roof line starts to drop. That's 7 seconds in itself. Then from 13 to 18 is another 5 seconds and we don't even see the ground level!!! That would add even more time. So you now have 12 seconds. DOUBLE of what you guys claim as 6 seconds.

If you had tossed Phil Zelikow from the roof of the mechanical penthouse on WTC7 at sunrise on 9/11/2001 he would have required about 6.34 seconds to reach ground level.

Sorry but Phil would be considered ONE ENTITY falling. He wouldn't have fallen in sections would he? What you fail to grasp is that the penthouse was part of the ENTIRE structure that fell separately which is why you claiming that the ENTIRE building fell in 6 seconds is incorrect. Let's use your analogy above with Phil. What if Phil's leg fell off and fell to the ground. Then his other leg. Then his right arm. Then his left arm. Then the rest of him. What part of that sequence would you use to show someone how long it took for Phil to reach the ground from the top of that 47 story building?

IThe entire 47-story tower was supported by 24 core columns and 57 perimeter columns. Believing random fires caused the entire building to collapse straight downward means you believe the fires caused all 81 steel columns to fail at exactly the same instant.

I bolded the important part of your quote. After seeing the numerous videos that show the penthouse collapsing first, how can you continue to say that all 81 steel columns failed at the exact same time? Let me ask you this. Watch this next video.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-WvQbFMIWU]YouTube - Tencza apartments controlled demolition[/ame]

Did they cut the columns all at the same time?

Regarding your NIST clip with east penthouse:

I see the penthouse collapse starting at about 2 seconds.
At 10 seconds the roofline begins its symmetrical, steady collapse straight downward.
The roofline disappears from view around second 14.

The fact that some tools inside a mechanical penthouse were bouncing around and breaking windows inside the falling 47 story tower is a red herring at best and deliberate deception at worst.

Dr. Steven Jones and his students have measured the fall speed of the SW corner of WTC7 at 6.5+-0.2 seconds. (Why Indeed P.4.)

These CBS video frames at one second intervals seem to back up the physicist and his students.

 

[DiveCon]

jones is a crackpot

 

[georgephillip]

With a PhD in Physics.

 

[DiveCon]

With a PhD in Physics.

so, no people with PhD's ever go totally batshit insane?

 

[martybegan]

How conclusive is video evidence that doesn't reveal ground level?

Look at what you write below.



The collapse initiates with the penthouse at 6 seconds. Then you say the ENTIRE 47 story building started at 13 seconds. Do you see the pieces of the penthouse falling inside the building AFTER the penthouse started it's collapse? It didn't just fall into the building at 6 seconds and stop there. In this next video, in the very beginning. do you see the broken windows up the face of the building?
YouTube - wtc7 collapse

Do you know what caused those broken windows? Here's a better video that shows the windows shatter as the penthouse structure in side collapses.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkOGkdNq13k]YouTube - WTC7 NIST Clip with east penthouse[/ame]

So during the penthouse collapse initiation and the time the rest of the building begins to fall, the penthouse structure is damaging the rest of the structure as it falls inside the building. So in the first video the penthouse starts to collapse at :06 and continues until :13 seconds when the roof line starts to drop. That's 7 seconds in itself. Then from 13 to 18 is another 5 seconds and we don't even see the ground level!!! That would add even more time. So you now have 12 seconds. DOUBLE of what you guys claim as 6 seconds.





Sorry but Phil would be considered ONE ENTITY falling. He wouldn't have fallen in sections would he? What you fail to grasp is that the penthouse was part of the ENTIRE structure that fell separately which is why you claiming that the ENTIRE building fell in 6 seconds is incorrect. Let's use your analogy above with Phil. What if Phil's leg fell off and fell to the ground. Then his other leg. Then his right arm. Then his left arm. Then the rest of him. What part of that sequence would you use to show someone how long it took for Phil to reach the ground from the top of that 47 story building?

IThe entire 47-story tower was supported by 24 core columns and 57 perimeter columns. Believing random fires caused the entire building to collapse straight downward means you believe the fires caused all 81 steel columns to fail at exactly the same instant.

I bolded the important part of your quote. After seeing the numerous videos that show the penthouse collapsing first, how can you continue to say that all 81 steel columns failed at the exact same time? Let me ask you this. Watch this next video.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-WvQbFMIWU]YouTube - Tencza apartments controlled demolition[/ame]

Did they cut the columns all at the same time?

Regarding your NIST clip with east penthouse:

I see the penthouse collapse starting at about 2 seconds.
At 10 seconds the roofline begins its symmetrical, steady collapse straight downward.
The roofline disappears from view around second 14.

The fact that some tools inside a mechanical penthouse were bouncing around and breaking windows inside the falling 47 story tower is a red herring at best and deliberate deception at worst.

Dr. Steven Jones and his students have measured the fall speed of the SW corner of WTC7 at 6.5+-0.2 seconds. (Why Indeed P.4.)

These CBS video frames at one second intervals seem to back up the physicist and his students.

Do you actually know what is kept inside a mechanical penthouse?

 

[DiveCon]

Look at what you write below.



The collapse initiates with the penthouse at 6 seconds. Then you say the ENTIRE 47 story building started at 13 seconds. Do you see the pieces of the penthouse falling inside the building AFTER the penthouse started it's collapse? It didn't just fall into the building at 6 seconds and stop there. In this next video, in the very beginning. do you see the broken windows up the face of the building?
YouTube - wtc7 collapse

Do you know what caused those broken windows? Here's a better video that shows the windows shatter as the penthouse structure in side collapses.
YouTube - WTC7 NIST Clip with east penthouse

So during the penthouse collapse initiation and the time the rest of the building begins to fall, the penthouse structure is damaging the rest of the structure as it falls inside the building. So in the first video the penthouse starts to collapse at :06 and continues until :13 seconds when the roof line starts to drop. That's 7 seconds in itself. Then from 13 to 18 is another 5 seconds and we don't even see the ground level!!! That would add even more time. So you now have 12 seconds. DOUBLE of what you guys claim as 6 seconds.





Sorry but Phil would be considered ONE ENTITY falling. He wouldn't have fallen in sections would he? What you fail to grasp is that the penthouse was part of the ENTIRE structure that fell separately which is why you claiming that the ENTIRE building fell in 6 seconds is incorrect. Let's use your analogy above with Phil. What if Phil's leg fell off and fell to the ground. Then his other leg. Then his right arm. Then his left arm. Then the rest of him. What part of that sequence would you use to show someone how long it took for Phil to reach the ground from the top of that 47 story building?



I bolded the important part of your quote. After seeing the numerous videos that show the penthouse collapsing first, how can you continue to say that all 81 steel columns failed at the exact same time? Let me ask you this. Watch this next video.
YouTube - Tencza apartments controlled demolition

Did they cut the columns all at the same time?

Regarding your NIST clip with east penthouse:

I see the penthouse collapse starting at about 2 seconds.
At 10 seconds the roofline begins its symmetrical, steady collapse straight downward.
The roofline disappears from view around second 14.

The fact that some tools inside a mechanical penthouse were bouncing around and breaking windows inside the falling 47 story tower is a red herring at best and deliberate deception at worst.

Dr. Steven Jones and his students have measured the fall speed of the SW corner of WTC7 at 6.5+-0.2 seconds. (Why Indeed P.4.)

These CBS video frames at one second intervals seem to back up the physicist and his students.

Do you actually know what is kept inside a mechanical penthouse?

dont you think he has made it quite clear he has no clue?

 

[georgephillip]

With a PhD in Physics.

so, no people with PhD's ever go totally batshit insane?

The first of Dr. Jones Thirteen Reasons to Challenge Government-sponsored Reports into 9/11 mentions multiple reports of molten metal in the basements of all three buildings.

"For six months after Sept. 11, the ground temperature varied between 600 degrees Fahrenheit and 1,500 degrees, sometimes higher.

"In the first few weeks, sometimes when a worker would pull a steel beam from the wreckage, the end of the beam would be dripping molten steel..."

"Sarah Atlas was part of New Jersey's Task Force One Urban Search and Rescue and was one of the first on the scene at Ground Zero with her canine partner Anna.

"'Nobody's going to be alive,'" was Sarah's first thought.

"Fires burned and molten steel flowed in the pile of ruins still settling beneath her feet."

See if you can refute Jones's content instead of making a punk of yourself with words like "batshit" and "insane."

 

[elvis]

With a PhD in Physics.

so, no people with PhD's ever go totally batshit insane?

 

[DiveCon]

With a PhD in Physics.

so, no people with PhD's ever go totally batshit insane?

The first of Dr. Jones Thirteen Reasons to Challenge Government-sponsored Reports into 9/11 mentions multiple reports of molten metal in the basements of all three buildings.

"For six months after Sept. 11, the ground temperature varied between 600 degrees Fahrenheit and 1,500 degrees, sometimes higher.

"In the first few weeks, sometimes when a worker would pull a steel beam from the wreckage, the end of the beam would be dripping molten steel..."

"Sarah Atlas was part of New Jersey's Task Force One Urban Search and Rescue and was one of the first on the scene at Ground Zero with her canine partner Anna.

"'Nobody's going to be alive,'" was Sarah's first thought.

"Fires burned and molten steel flowed in the pile of ruins still settling beneath her feet."

See if you can refute Jones's content instead of making a punk of yourself with words like "batshit" and "insane."

its up to you to prove they are true, dipshit

 

[elvis]

With a PhD in Physics.

so, no people with PhD's ever go totally batshit insane?

oh maybe he meant Americans....