Uh Oh!!: Tim Adams, Chief Elections Clerk in Hawaii says Obama wasn't born there.

[Foxfyre]

are you suggesting that the hawaiian elected officials who have already attested to the existence of his birth certificate are NOT people of integrity??????

Nope. But nobody knows them. And the fact that they can't tell us what is on the long form only increases the curiosity about what is on it that Obama doesn't want us to know.

Edit: Remember that trip Obama took to Hawaii before the election. His grandmother was dying and he wouldn't let the press come along on that trip. But the few members of the press that continued to track his movements on that trip anyway say that he spent only a few minutes with his grandmother. But he spent some time with the keepers of the birth certificate. And it was then that he ordered the records sealed and they were not to be shown or released to anybody or discussed with anybody.

You see? It is stuff like that which fuels the controversy. Does it prove anything? No it doesn't prove a thing. All it does is peak curiosity and keep people wondering. And digging.

I agree with Immie.... you have no reason to doubt the integrity of the elected officials who verified his birth certificate. And I would LOVE to see a non-partisan news source that shows that Obama "spent some time with the keepers of the birth certificate. And it was THEN that he ordered the records sealed".

I haven't doubted anybody's integrity. Some of you people are amazing reading into comments stuff that absolutely hasn't been said. I absolutely believe those people who say the birth certificate is authentic and they aren't allowed to tell us a damn thing about it.

 

[maineman]

I haven't doubted anybody's integrity. Some of you people are amazing reading into comments stuff that absolutely hasn't been said. I absolutely believe those people who say the birth certificate is authentic and they aren't allowed to tell us a damn thing about it.

so..when you said, "I would like for Obama to allow the State of Hawaii to show people of integrity that long form birth certificate" you were meaing that the state of Hawaii should show MORE people of integrity over and above the people of integrity that had already seen it and verified its authenticity? I see. That makes LOTS of sense.

 

[Foxfyre]

I haven't doubted anybody's integrity. Some of you people are amazing reading into comments stuff that absolutely hasn't been said. I absolutely believe those people who say the birth certificate is authentic and they aren't allowed to tell us a damn thing about it.

so..when you said, "I would like for Obama to allow the State of Hawaii to show people of integrity that long form birth certificate" you were meaing that the state of Hawaii should show MORE people of integrity over and above the people of integrity that had already seen it and verified its authenticity? I see. That makes LOTS of sense.

You still are either not hearing what I have been saying or you don't WANT to hear what I'm saying. It is not a matter of integrity. Maybe if I type really REALLY slow and spell the words out carefully you guys will be able to finally comprehend that. It is NOT the witnesses integrity that is being questioned here. At least by me.

The people who have seen the long form, assuming there is a long form, are under strict orders to keep it sealed and tell nobody what is on it. Instead of allowing all interested parties to examine the short form birth certificate, it was shown to a very select few all of whom agree it is the real deal, but nobody else is allowed to see it.

Can't you see how that kind of cloak and dagger stuff simply fuels the conspiracy theorists? And makes the non-conspiracy theorists such as myself continue to be curious about WHY they don't want anybody to see these things?

 

[Care4all]

Well I am as curious as the next person.

I would like for Obama to allow the State of Hawaii to show people of integrity that long form birth certificate so we could know once and for all what is on it.

I would like for Obama to release his medical records as all other president's have done.

I would like for Obama to produce his transcript, registration, and any available writings from Columbia which is one of the most murky periods of his past. All other presidents have released such information.

I would like for Obama to produce his transcript, registration, and any available writings from Harvard as all other presidents have done.

If Obama is who he has represented himself to be, he will survive nicely any substandard grades or other amusing stuff that would show up on those transcripts. He's already President so any imprudent personal opinions expressed in college won't hurt him. He can blow that off easily as all politicians blow off imprudent stuff from their youth.

The only reason I can figure that he is unwilling for us to know any of all that is because it would explode the myth he has built around himself. Possibly it would expose him as a liar on some points. And possibly it would be a huge embarrassment to him on some points. There are no doubt names, dates, etc and other information on those documents that won't stack up against what he wants us to believe.

But we will probably never know.

1- for what purpose do you want to see the long form? what information do you think the long form has on it, that is not represented on the notarized and certified COLB that is pertinent to his birth?

do you think that the original birth certificate is NOT going to list Honolulu as his birth place even though the COLB has certified that this is what the original states?

WHAT is your purpose for wanting to see the original?

If you can explain what you THINK you will see or find out by seeing the original on file, I would appreciate it.

KNOW, that if he was NOT born in Hawaii, there WOULD NOT be a Hawaiian birth certificate at all.... it would be another form all together, that shows the place of birth, and the application for citizenship by the parents////

If he was born in another country, as with McCain....he would have a birth certificate from the country he was born in....McCain's birth certificate STATES he was born in the Panama Canal zone, IT DOES NOT list the state of his parent's birth or some state picked out of the sky as his birth place, but Panama....where he was born, is listed....McCain's p[arents had to APPLY for citizenship for him, then after months, it was approved. He DID NOT get a birth certificate from a State in the United states after their application was approved????????

I just don't get your logic on this fyrefox? so if you can shed some light on what you seem to think you will find by viewing the original....PLEASE tell us.

Care, I've said again and again I believe Obama is a U.S. citizen. I simply don't believe he would ever have gotten through the process if he was not.

But those things I am curious about, I am curious about. I started out in life to be an investigative reporter. My life worked out in a different direction, but I remain an investigator, researcher, and historian at heart.

Condemn me if you wish for being curious about stuff that a President of the United States seems almost desperate to keep secret. But I am curious.

And I bet if somebody figures out a way to crack the code and find out about some of that stuff, you're curious enough to want to see it too.

Again, I ask....WHAT information on the long form birth certificate, do YOU want to know, that relates to him NOT BEING a natural born citizen?

If you just want him to release the long form so you can find out HIS MOTHER'S doctor's name or the hospital he was born in, (VERY PRIVATE INFORMATION for/with NO REASON relating to the presidency AT ALL) then your investigative curiosity serves NO purpose unless you wanted to work for the national Enquirer....and I seriously doubt this was the kind of reporter you wanted to be...

so STATE your purpose....not a fishing expedition, but your purpose....what you plan to accomplish, what you want to know about obama that is on the standard long form birth certificate, THAT TRULY MATTERS in your investigative curiosity quest...???

And another question for you....why not just ask him? What was your mother's doctor's name? What hospital were you born at? Why jump on board on these birther threads, SAYING you know they are wrong and he was born here, while then posting, what appears to be the opposite?

Care

 

[geauxtohell]

I agree with Immie.... you have no reason to doubt the integrity of the elected officials who verified his birth certificate. And I would LOVE to see a non-partisan news source that shows that Obama "spent some time with the keepers of the birth certificate. And it was THEN that he ordered the records sealed".

It's in the same corner of the internet that has the story and evidence that Obama is spending millions of dollars in legal fees to keep his records concealed.

Another common birther lie, I mean claim.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Curiousity does not subsitute for a reason to know, foxfyre. The records have been verified, and you have no legal or ethical right to know.

 

[Foxfyre]

1- for what purpose do you want to see the long form? what information do you think the long form has on it, that is not represented on the notarized and certified COLB that is pertinent to his birth?

do you think that the original birth certificate is NOT going to list Honolulu as his birth place even though the COLB has certified that this is what the original states?

WHAT is your purpose for wanting to see the original?

If you can explain what you THINK you will see or find out by seeing the original on file, I would appreciate it.

KNOW, that if he was NOT born in Hawaii, there WOULD NOT be a Hawaiian birth certificate at all.... it would be another form all together, that shows the place of birth, and the application for citizenship by the parents////

If he was born in another country, as with McCain....he would have a birth certificate from the country he was born in....McCain's birth certificate STATES he was born in the Panama Canal zone, IT DOES NOT list the state of his parent's birth or some state picked out of the sky as his birth place, but Panama....where he was born, is listed....McCain's p[arents had to APPLY for citizenship for him, then after months, it was approved. He DID NOT get a birth certificate from a State in the United states after their application was approved????????

I just don't get your logic on this fyrefox? so if you can shed some light on what you seem to think you will find by viewing the original....PLEASE tell us.

Care, I've said again and again I believe Obama is a U.S. citizen. I simply don't believe he would ever have gotten through the process if he was not.

But those things I am curious about, I am curious about. I started out in life to be an investigative reporter. My life worked out in a different direction, but I remain an investigator, researcher, and historian at heart.

Condemn me if you wish for being curious about stuff that a President of the United States seems almost desperate to keep secret. But I am curious.

And I bet if somebody figures out a way to crack the code and find out about some of that stuff, you're curious enough to want to see it too.

Again, I ask....WHAT information on the long form birth certificate, do YOU want to know, that relates to him NOT BEING a natural born citizen?

If you just want him to release the long form so you can find out HIS MOTHER'S doctor's name or the hospital he was born in, (VERY PRIVATE INFORMATION for/with NO REASON relating to the presidency AT ALL) then your investigative curiosity serves NO purpose unless you wanted to work for the national Enquirer....and I seriously doubt this was the kind of reporter you wanted to be...

so STATE your purpose....not a fishing expedition, but your purpose....what you plan to accomplish, what you want to know about obama that is on the standard long form birth certificate, THAT TRULY MATTERS in your investigative curiosity quest...???

And another question for you....why not just ask him? What was your mother's doctor's name? What hospital were you born at? Why jump on board on these birther threads, SAYING you know they are wrong and he was born here, while then posting, what appears to be the opposite?

Care

My purpose is to satisfy my curiosity about a famous person. I am interested in interesting people and like to know as much as possible about them. So I read lots of news accounts and biographies and such as that.

If you see me as evil for having such curiosity, then so be it.

The astonishing lack of curiosity among the Obama worshipers is almost as fascinating to me. I can guarantee there was no lack of curiosity from the same people about other folks in the public realm and the screams of 'cover up' are always loud and clear if anybody presumes to conceal almost anything.

 

[Immanuel]

Nope. But nobody knows them. And the fact that they can't tell us what is on the long form only increases the curiosity about what is on it that Obama doesn't want us to know.

Edit: Remember that trip Obama took to Hawaii before the election. His grandmother was dying and he wouldn't let the press come along on that trip. But the few members of the press that continued to track his movements on that trip anyway say that he spent only a few minutes with his grandmother. But he spent some time with the keepers of the birth certificate. And it was then that he ordered the records sealed and they were not to be shown or released to anybody or discussed with anybody.

You see? It is stuff like that which fuels the controversy. Does it prove anything? No it doesn't prove a thing. All it does is peak curiosity and keep people wondering. And digging.

Without evidence that they are deceitful, wouldn't it be prudent to assume that they are not?

I have seen nothing at all to indicate that Dr. Fukino has done anything at all to suggest she was anything but honest. The question of his U.S. birth was raised. She had access and was authorized to release the information that she did. By doing so, if she was deceitful she risked her job and her reputation... but for what?

At this point, I have to go with the belief that she has been honest.

As for why he got his application for financial aid sealed, there could well be a legitimate reason for having done so. People do have privacy issues and maybe there is something that he doesn't want exposed... maybe it is simply that he was living with another woman at the time and doesn't want that information or her name brought into the mix. Who knows what it is?

For all I know, the accusations may be true, but I can think of other reasons why a person would not want private information such as that released.

To be honest, I wouldn't want you guys going through all my loan applications either, and quite frankly, I can't think of anything off of the top of my head that I would want to hide, but damnit there are things that are just none of your cotton-picking business Your being collective of course! And of course, IMHO.

Immie

You are a private citizen though Immie and hold little or no power over the rest of us. Nor do I hold any power over anybody else. Thus, unless I violate somebody else's rights, my private life is my business and nobody else's. I will choose what information anybody else is privy to have.

A President of the United States, however, holds enormous power over the rest of us and has almost unlimited resources to do just about anything he wants to do to anybody. He has almost unlimited resources to hide just about anything he chooses to do to anybody. For that reason, his character and integrity as reflected in his personal history and background should be much more open and public and visible in order for us to choose somebody we can trust to be reasonably ethical and honest to hold that position. Those who seek such high office really should forfeit most of their privacy while they hold that office.

It's kind of like those going into the military willingly forfeit some of their individual rights while they are in the service.

"Character and integrity"? We are speaking about politicians, aren't we?

And I agree with what you state to a large extent, but there comes a time when there is no supporting evidence that a case needs to be put aside for the time being and quite frankly, I think in this case that time has been reached.

We can all speculate with "what ifs" but pushing this makes us appear like sore losers. We are not going to get copies of his financial dealings, plain and simple, especially if we intend on using them against him. Would you open up your past in such a manner, whether you were the President or not for people that want nothing more than to destroy you? I would not. I'm sure President Bush didn't volunteer information either. I know President Clinton didn't.

What is he hiding? I have no clue! Would I like to know? Damn straight I would. But damage control says, it's time to plug this hole in the hull and get this ship (conservatism) back under sail and stop looking like crybabies. We lost. He/they beat us fair and square. Time to move on.

Immie

 

[geauxtohell]

I would like for Obama to allow the State of Hawaii to show people of integrity that long form birth certificate so we could know once and for all what is on it.

He's done this. Dr. Fukino, the Director of Health, has twice stated that she has seen and verified all original documentation and that Obama was born in Hawaii.

Care, I've said again and again I believe Obama is a U.S. citizen. I simply don't believe he would ever have gotten through the process if he was not.

Right. He wouldn't have gotten through the process because Dr. Fukino would not have been able to state that she had seen his original documentation and that he was born in Hawaii.

I mean, this fence straddling by (as I refer to them) pseudo-birthers is somewhat amazing. It always starts out with "I am a rational person and I believe Obama was born in Hawaii but..... and after the but they start to list off the same load of crap that the hard core birthers do.

This may or may not be you, but I really believe there are a group of people who know damn well that this isn't an issue, but are going to keep giving it lip service simply to muddy the water.

In that regard, it's even more obnoxious than the birthers. At least the birthers believe the crap they are spewing.

 

[Immanuel]

Nope. But nobody knows them. And the fact that they can't tell us what is on the long form only increases the curiosity about what is on it that Obama doesn't want us to know.

Edit: Remember that trip Obama took to Hawaii before the election. His grandmother was dying and he wouldn't let the press come along on that trip. But the few members of the press that continued to track his movements on that trip anyway say that he spent only a few minutes with his grandmother. But he spent some time with the keepers of the birth certificate. And it was then that he ordered the records sealed and they were not to be shown or released to anybody or discussed with anybody.

You see? It is stuff like that which fuels the controversy. Does it prove anything? No it doesn't prove a thing. All it does is peak curiosity and keep people wondering. And digging.

I agree with Immie.... you have no reason to doubt the integrity of the elected officials who verified his birth certificate. And I would LOVE to see a non-partisan news source that shows that Obama "spent some time with the keepers of the birth certificate. And it was THEN that he ordered the records sealed".

I haven't doubted anybody's integrity. Some of you people are amazing reading into comments stuff that absolutely hasn't been said. I absolutely believe those people who say the birth certificate is authentic and they aren't allowed to tell us a damn thing about it.

For my part of this conversation, I'm not talking about you in particular.

You have already stated that you believe the birth certificate is valid.

I know there are a lot of people on the right that disagree with me, but all I can see is that conservatives are looking like... well whiny liberals in the way this is progressing.

Immie

 

[geauxtohell]

Curiousity does not subsitute for a reason to know, foxfyre. The records have been verified, and you have no legal or ethical right to know.

I am curious as to what Bush's medical records would state for his entire life. Was he ever tested for STDs during his free-wheeling bachelor days in the TANG? Was he ever admitted for intoxication? Is there anything embarrassing there?

I am curious. I have no legal or ethical right to know.

 

[Foxfyre]

Curiousity does not subsitute for a reason to know, foxfyre. The records have been verified, and you have no legal or ethical right to know.

I am curious as to what Bush's medical records would state for his entire life. Was he ever tested for STDs during his free-wheeling bachelor days in the TANG? Was he ever admitted for intoxication? Is there anything embarrassing there?

I am curious. I have no legal or ethical right to know.

But I believe President Bush did release ALL his medical records did he not? He really didn't have a reason not to. He freely admitted his drinking problem. And nobody was tested for STDs during the period he was a free wheeling bachelor. That just didn't happen unless you came up with symptoms alarming enough to get checked out.

And maybe you weren't active on the internet during the Bush years, but I was. There was no detail of his life, his daughters' lives, etc. etc. etc. too miniscule to not wonder about, speculate about, characterize in most unkind ways, and post ad nauseum.

Ditto for Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton for the eight years of his presidency.

So why is the privacy of our current President suddenly so sacrosanct? Are his worshippers so terrified that the mythical illusion might be burst that they must protect their current idol at all costs? Must any curiosity about that person be tagged as having some kind of ulterior or dishonest or hypocritical motive?

Again, if being curious about a famous person makes me evil, I am absolutely evil.

And I will continue to be evil I guess.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Foxfyre, you are arguing a senseless position other than for yourself.

It's your opinion only with no real merit.

 

[Foxfyre]

Foxfyre, you are arguing a senseless position other than for yourself.

It's your opinion only with no real merit.

Good Jake. I'm sure you are far too brilliant and far too important to waste your time on those whose opinion has no real merit. So I'll trust that you won't mind if I don't respond further to your magnificent observations and most cognizant interpretations and brilliant exegesis. I wouldn't presume to waste your time.

 

[Zona]

Explain what Barry is hiding in his College records?????

AGAIN, you refuse to acknowledge the birth announcement in the local HAWAII paper a couple days after he was born...

DIVERT, DIVERT, DIVERT!

You look like a fool.

That is not my issue. Your champion is worse than Kerry with his Military records. Release the School Transcripts. What are you pussies afraid of????? God you are pussies.

Divert! OH and I am still hunting down transcrips from McCain's Acedemy days. Cant find them dammit and i will stick on this point so I can divert on everything else.


Now back to how, in Hawaii in a local paper ....IN 1961...they announced the birth of a Barrack Hussein Obama! How can this be? lol

 

[Zona]

Birthers do prove that all opinions are not equal with their silly posturing, their dancing and prancing, their antics. I have asked for one single shred of solid evidence. They can't doit.

Name a Presidential Candidate in the last 50 years other than Obama that has not made that information available???

No other one has been asked. What is different about this one...WHAT? lol

 

[Zona]

Name a Presidential Candidate in the last 50 years other than Obama that has not made that information available???

Describe what you want Obama to do.

Well I am as curious as the next person.

I would like for Obama to allow the State of Hawaii to show people of integrity that long form birth certificate so we could know once and for all what is on it.

I would like for Obama to release his medical records as all other president's have done.

I would like for Obama to produce his transcript, registration, and any available writings from Columbia which is one of the most murky periods of his past. All other presidents have released such information.

I would like for Obama to produce his transcript, registration, and any available writings from Harvard as all other presidents have done.

If Obama is who he has represented himself to be, he will survive nicely any substandard grades or other amusing stuff that would show up on those transcripts. He's already President so any imprudent personal opinions expressed in college won't hurt him. He can blow that off easily as all politicians blow off imprudent stuff from their youth.

The only reason I can figure that he is unwilling for us to know any of all that is because it would explode the myth he has built around himself. Possibly it would expose him as a liar on some points. And possibly it would be a huge embarrassment to him on some points. There are no doubt names, dates, etc and other information on those documents that won't stack up against what he wants us to believe.

But we will probably never know.

Do you have links to other presidents doing it? Do you even have links of other presidents even being asked for this? Burfers rule!
I want bush to do the same thing. See how silly I look?

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Personally,i believe that this President was born in Kenya and not Hawaii. His Grandmother's earlier statements regarding visiting him as a baby in a Kenyan Hospital seem legitimate to me. Her story of course changed later on when he announced he was running for President. I just don't see a Grandmother lying about something like that. It is also widely accepted in Kenya that he was born there.

But why would they put an Anti-American foreigner in there? I believe it has to do with the New World Order and their pursuit of a One World Government. This President's policies do seem to be supporting this agenda. His apology tours do tend to make better sense when you look at things from this perspective. They have to tear down the American ego and condition American minds into believing America is bad and that a One World Government is a better alternative. They have to tear down the American ego first though. I think this President is definitely supporting that agenda. This President very well could be a New World Order foreign plant. Makes you think huh?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Foxfyre, you are arguing a senseless position other than for yourself.

It's your opinion only with no real merit.

Good Jake. I'm sure you are far too brilliant and far too important to waste your time on those whose opinion has no real merit. So I'll trust that you won't mind if I don't respond further to your magnificent observations and most cognizant interpretations and brilliant exegesis. I wouldn't presume to waste your time.

Who cares what you respond to, but I will respond to obvious nonsense that you post. All opinions are not equal.

On the other side, much of what you write is very interesting, but your political prognostications are far, far off. So don't respond, but I know you will read.

 

[JakeStarkey]

And Lib's statements above are an example exactly why I am on this board: to interject some sanity into the nonsense.