United States Founded on Faith

[Seawytch]

Yes, it's tied to everyone being able to have the faith of their own choice, not just "you can choose any religion in any color, as long as it's Christianity"

But Christianity prevails. If our founders were not Christian...would the outcome have been the same?

Well different religions would probably have done things differently in some way or other. But had the US been Christian but Russian orthodox, it would have been different. A lot of what you're talking about has been the development of Europe from the Magna Carta in 1215. Was Christianity the main driving force of parliament in England trying to rest control from the Monarch? No, because such things happened everywhere. You look to the Ottoman Empire and they had freedoms for different religions, and different ethic groups too, taking power away from the Sultan. But Christianity played a part because religion was far more political back then than it is now. But Christianity developed in different directions. Had the US been Catholic mainly, it would have gone a completely different way too.

But the Founding Fathers wanted to stop what had been happening under the British king George III. That is that religion was forced on people. The whole point of the First Amendment was so that individuals could make that decision.

And now you're trying to twist history to make it look like the Founding Fathers wanted the US to force religion on people.

No I am not. The Founders believed in freedom from a "state sponsored" religion. The Magna Carta was brought about to ensure the rights of nobility. The Pilgrims came here because they did not believe in the divine right of kings. They wanted religious freedom and the last time I checked...they were Christian. They wrote the Mayflower Compact that stated that those in power served with the consent of the governed. At every turn in early American history...all the way up through the abolitionist movement...faith was a centerpiece. If the early colonies had been predominantly Catholic...they would have been French or Spanish. The First Amendment is directed at a state sponsored religion. Not freedom to practice what you want. I do not think the high school was trying to establish a state sponsored religion.

Your post is just one massive contradiction.

First you talk about religious freedom, not being told by the state what religion you should be forced to practice, and then you seem to be pressing for the govt to be able to impose their will on what people believe. You're pushing your agenda and trying to make facts fit. It's clearly not working.

The prevailing attitude of the population is...not to be overturned by Court. Certainly in the case of California voters and gay marriage it was totally wrong to destroy their vote and opinion.

So if the majority of the people in say, California, wanted to ban guns, the Supreme Court shouldn't step in?

 

[frigidweirdo]

America was founded by people who were predominantly of the Christian faith. And? What's the point?

Watch video. Should school have been forced to take down the prayer? I think we are consistently redefining Jefferson 's "Wall of Seperation." Just as the Rehenqist Court clarified some of the extreme positions of the Warren Court on probable cause and warrentless searches for police in conducting their jobs.

No, a school should not have to remove a Christian prayer...they should just have to make room for a Muslim prayer, a Jewish prayer, a sat a nice prayer, a pastafarian prayer, etc.

And an atheist prayer.

 

[Bush92]

America was founded by people who were predominantly of the Christian faith. And? What's the point?

Watch video. Should school have been forced to take down the prayer? I think we are consistently redefining Jefferson 's "Wall of Seperation." Just as the Rehenqist Court clarified some of the extreme positions of the Warren Court on probable cause and warrentless searches for police in conducting their jobs.

No, a school should not have to remove a Christian prayer...they should just have to make room for a Muslim prayer, a Jewish prayer, a Satanists prayer, a pastafarian prayer, etc.

The prayer had been there since 1963.

 

[Bush92]

But Christianity prevails. If our founders were not Christian...would the outcome have been the same?

Well different religions would probably have done things differently in some way or other. But had the US been Christian but Russian orthodox, it would have been different. A lot of what you're talking about has been the development of Europe from the Magna Carta in 1215. Was Christianity the main driving force of parliament in England trying to rest control from the Monarch? No, because such things happened everywhere. You look to the Ottoman Empire and they had freedoms for different religions, and different ethic groups too, taking power away from the Sultan. But Christianity played a part because religion was far more political back then than it is now. But Christianity developed in different directions. Had the US been Catholic mainly, it would have gone a completely different way too.

But the Founding Fathers wanted to stop what had been happening under the British king George III. That is that religion was forced on people. The whole point of the First Amendment was so that individuals could make that decision.

And now you're trying to twist history to make it look like the Founding Fathers wanted the US to force religion on people.

No I am not. The Founders believed in freedom from a "state sponsored" religion. The Magna Carta was brought about to ensure the rights of nobility. The Pilgrims came here because they did not believe in the divine right of kings. They wanted religious freedom and the last time I checked...they were Christian. They wrote the Mayflower Compact that stated that those in power served with the consent of the governed. At every turn in early American history...all the way up through the abolitionist movement...faith was a centerpiece. If the early colonies had been predominantly Catholic...they would have been French or Spanish. The First Amendment is directed at a state sponsored religion. Not freedom to practice what you want. I do not think the high school was trying to establish a state sponsored religion.

Your post is just one massive contradiction.

First you talk about religious freedom, not being told by the state what religion you should be forced to practice, and then you seem to be pressing for the govt to be able to impose their will on what people believe. You're pushing your agenda and trying to make facts fit. It's clearly not working.

The prevailing attitude of the population is...not to be overturned by Court. Certainly in the case of California voters and gay marriage it was totally wrong to destroy their vote and opinion.

So if the majority of the people in say, California, wanted to ban guns, the Supreme Court shouldn't step in?

Of course they should. 2nd Amendment I straight forward. 1st is constantly being defined. Look at free speech and Schenk case 1919' Gitlow 1924' then later Brandenburg 1969. The Court had to back and dial it in. Does a prayer on the wall of a school cross the "establishment clause" of First Amendment...I don't think so.

 

[Bush92]

America was founded by people who were predominantly of the Christian faith. And? What's the point?

Watch video. Should school have been forced to take down the prayer? I think we are consistently redefining Jefferson 's "Wall of Seperation." Just as the Rehenqist Court clarified some of the extreme positions of the Warren Court on probable cause and warrentless searches for police in conducting their jobs.

No, a school should not have to remove a Christian prayer...they should just have to make room for a Muslim prayer, a Jewish prayer, a sat a nice prayer, a pastafarian prayer, etc.

And an atheist prayer.

How would that go. "Our nothingness that comes from nowhere, hallowed be the emptiness...

 

[Bush92]

The Constitution written by Christians...grounded in the Christian faith? I think they wanted to allow for a freedom of religion because they saw the turmoil it had caused in the past in European history...as well as in theirs. But I do not believe they wanted "freedom of sensitivity."

I'm not sure what you mean by "freedom of sensitivity", what they wanted was a separation of church and state, they wanted individuals to be free to choose whatever they wanted.

Thomas Jefferson wrote:

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof", thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties."

How high is that wall? Removing a prayer from a wall seems going too far the other way. The Taliban destroyed Buddhist statues by blowing them up. I think atheists comprise a religion and they have no right to force their shared non-belief in God on to me and prohibit my right to practice my faith or the common shared belief of 99999.9999% of the community.

Okay, but then you appear to be pushing to impose your views on other people. You are saying that the country was founded on Christianity and that Christianity should somehow reign supreme, aren't you? Now you're saying that no religion should be able to impose itself on any other.

With regards to the school prayer video I disagree that this one girl has the right to impose her will on the vast majority based on her non-belief.

What video?

People don't have the right to impose their religious view on others. But they should expect that others don't do it to them.

From the original post. PBS...9 minutes.

 

[BluesLegend]

In the 1700's America declared its independence from precisely the type of tyranny and control liberals are trying to impose on us. We killed a bunch of those British douchebags and drove them from our land.

 

[Seawytch]

America was founded by people who were predominantly of the Christian faith. And? What's the point?

Watch video. Should school have been forced to take down the prayer? I think we are consistently redefining Jefferson 's "Wall of Seperation." Just as the Rehenqist Court clarified some of the extreme positions of the Warren Court on probable cause and warrentless searches for police in conducting their jobs.

No, a school should not have to remove a Christian prayer...they should just have to make room for a Muslim prayer, a Jewish prayer, a Satanists prayer, a pastafarian prayer, etc.

The prayer had been there since 1963.

So? Make room for more or take it down. Simple.

 

[Seawytch]

Well different religions would probably have done things differently in some way or other. But had the US been Christian but Russian orthodox, it would have been different. A lot of what you're talking about has been the development of Europe from the Magna Carta in 1215. Was Christianity the main driving force of parliament in England trying to rest control from the Monarch? No, because such things happened everywhere. You look to the Ottoman Empire and they had freedoms for different religions, and different ethic groups too, taking power away from the Sultan. But Christianity played a part because religion was far more political back then than it is now. But Christianity developed in different directions. Had the US been Catholic mainly, it would have gone a completely different way too.

But the Founding Fathers wanted to stop what had been happening under the British king George III. That is that religion was forced on people. The whole point of the First Amendment was so that individuals could make that decision.

And now you're trying to twist history to make it look like the Founding Fathers wanted the US to force religion on people.

No I am not. The Founders believed in freedom from a "state sponsored" religion. The Magna Carta was brought about to ensure the rights of nobility. The Pilgrims came here because they did not believe in the divine right of kings. They wanted religious freedom and the last time I checked...they were Christian. They wrote the Mayflower Compact that stated that those in power served with the consent of the governed. At every turn in early American history...all the way up through the abolitionist movement...faith was a centerpiece. If the early colonies had been predominantly Catholic...they would have been French or Spanish. The First Amendment is directed at a state sponsored religion. Not freedom to practice what you want. I do not think the high school was trying to establish a state sponsored religion.

Your post is just one massive contradiction.

First you talk about religious freedom, not being told by the state what religion you should be forced to practice, and then you seem to be pressing for the govt to be able to impose their will on what people believe. You're pushing your agenda and trying to make facts fit. It's clearly not working.

The prevailing attitude of the population is...not to be overturned by Court. Certainly in the case of California voters and gay marriage it was totally wrong to destroy their vote and opinion.

So if the majority of the people in say, California, wanted to ban guns, the Supreme Court shouldn't step in?

Of course they should. 2nd Amendment I straight forward. 1st is constantly being defined. Look at free speech and Schenk case 1919' Gitlow 1924' then later Brandenburg 1969. The Court had to back and dial it in. Does a prayer on the wall of a school cross the "establishment clause" of First Amendment...I don't think so.

The 14th Amendment is clear too...which is why the "majority" were overruled in Prop 8 too.

 

[Bush92]

No I am not. The Founders believed in freedom from a "state sponsored" religion. The Magna Carta was brought about to ensure the rights of nobility. The Pilgrims came here because they did not believe in the divine right of kings. They wanted religious freedom and the last time I checked...they were Christian. They wrote the Mayflower Compact that stated that those in power served with the consent of the governed. At every turn in early American history...all the way up through the abolitionist movement...faith was a centerpiece. If the early colonies had been predominantly Catholic...they would have been French or Spanish. The First Amendment is directed at a state sponsored religion. Not freedom to practice what you want. I do not think the high school was trying to establish a state sponsored religion.

Your post is just one massive contradiction.

First you talk about religious freedom, not being told by the state what religion you should be forced to practice, and then you seem to be pressing for the govt to be able to impose their will on what people believe. You're pushing your agenda and trying to make facts fit. It's clearly not working.

The prevailing attitude of the population is...not to be overturned by Court. Certainly in the case of California voters and gay marriage it was totally wrong to destroy their vote and opinion.

So if the majority of the people in say, California, wanted to ban guns, the Supreme Court shouldn't step in?

Of course they should. 2nd Amendment I straight forward. 1st is constantly being defined. Look at free speech and Schenk case 1919' Gitlow 1924' then later Brandenburg 1969. The Court had to back and dial it in. Does a prayer on the wall of a school cross the "establishment clause" of First Amendment...I don't think so.

The 14th Amendment is clear too...which is why the "majority" were overruled in Prop 8 too.

14th...worst Amendment ever. Pure politics by a bunch of liberal lunatics.

 

[RightyTighty]

In the 1700's America declared its independence from precisely the type of tyranny and control liberals are trying to impose on us. We killed a bunch of those British douchebags and drove them from our land.

You would have been a Tory, and fought against the founding of this liberal nation, like all other reactionaries.

 

[Bush92]

In the 1700's America declared its independence from precisely the type of tyranny and control liberals are trying to impose on us. We killed a bunch of those British douchebags and drove them from our land.

You would have been a Tory, and fought against the founding of this liberal nation, like all other reactionaries.

Liberals believe in control by a central authority.

 

[RightyTighty]

In the 1700's America declared its independence from precisely the type of tyranny and control liberals are trying to impose on us. We killed a bunch of those British douchebags and drove them from our land.

You would have been a Tory, and fought against the founding of this liberal nation, like all other reactionaries.

Liberals believe in control by a central authority.

We do have a central authority here. It's very useful. Did you think this was 50 nations or anarchy?

And 50 nations would also have - a central authority.

 

[Seawytch]

Your post is just one massive contradiction.

First you talk about religious freedom, not being told by the state what religion you should be forced to practice, and then you seem to be pressing for the govt to be able to impose their will on what people believe. You're pushing your agenda and trying to make facts fit. It's clearly not working.

The prevailing attitude of the population is...not to be overturned by Court. Certainly in the case of California voters and gay marriage it was totally wrong to destroy their vote and opinion.

So if the majority of the people in say, California, wanted to ban guns, the Supreme Court shouldn't step in?

Of course they should. 2nd Amendment I straight forward. 1st is constantly being defined. Look at free speech and Schenk case 1919' Gitlow 1924' then later Brandenburg 1969. The Court had to back and dial it in. Does a prayer on the wall of a school cross the "establishment clause" of First Amendment...I don't think so.

The 14th Amendment is clear too...which is why the "majority" were overruled in Prop 8 too.

14th...worst Amendment ever. Pure politics by a bunch of liberal lunatics.

1st, 2nd, 14th, 21st...they are all part of the same document. If a "majority" violate it, the judicial steps in. (Like the founders intended...same way they intende a secular government)

 

[Moonglow]

In the 1700's America declared its independence from precisely the type of tyranny and control liberals are trying to impose on us. We killed a bunch of those British douchebags and drove them from our land.

You would have been a Tory, and fought against the founding of this liberal nation, like all other reactionaries.

Liberals believe in control by a central authority.

Christians believe in forced subjugation of their version of Christianity..

 

[BluesLegend]

In the 1700's America declared its independence from precisely the type of tyranny and control liberals are trying to impose on us. We killed a bunch of those British douchebags and drove them from our land.

You would have been a Tory, and fought against the founding of this liberal nation, like all other reactionaries.

Your opinion has been filed under liberal.

 

[BluesLegend]

In the 1700's America declared its independence from precisely the type of tyranny and control liberals are trying to impose on us. We killed a bunch of those British douchebags and drove them from our land.

You would have been a Tory, and fought against the founding of this liberal nation, like all other reactionaries.

Liberals believe in control by a central authority.

An elite liberal ruling class and a slave class paying into the state which decides how the money will be doled out, that's the liberal wet dream. What's funny is all those dumb ass rank and file libs think they will be part of the elite ruling class

 

[RightyTighty]

In the 1700's America declared its independence from precisely the type of tyranny and control liberals are trying to impose on us. We killed a bunch of those British douchebags and drove them from our land.

You would have been a Tory, and fought against the founding of this liberal nation, like all other reactionaries.

Your opinion has been filed under liberal.

The Founders were liberals. I can't say as that bothers me.

 

[BluesLegend]

In the 1700's America declared its independence from precisely the type of tyranny and control liberals are trying to impose on us. We killed a bunch of those British douchebags and drove them from our land.

You would have been a Tory, and fought against the founding of this liberal nation, like all other reactionaries.

Your opinion has been filed under liberal.

The Founders were liberals. I can't say as that bothers me.

there's hope one day for a cure hang in there.

 

[RightyTighty]

In the 1700's America declared its independence from precisely the type of tyranny and control liberals are trying to impose on us. We killed a bunch of those British douchebags and drove them from our land.

You would have been a Tory, and fought against the founding of this liberal nation, like all other reactionaries.

Your opinion has been filed under liberal.

The Founders were liberals. I can't say as that bothers me.

there's hope one day for a cure hang in there.

Not here, this is a liberal nation. You should leave. It as never meant for your kind.