US Ready to Abandon Key Nuclear Pact

[Harpy Eagle]

Not true at all. This action in particular opens the way for a new arms race which Putin seems to want.

You couldn't be more wrong. Russia is broke. See the price of oil lately? They will NOT get into another arms race with the U.S. They can't afford it.

And we can? We added 1.27 TRILLION dollars to our national debt in the FY that just ended. The last arms race led to a 186% jump in our debt under Reagan, we cannot afford such a thing again.

You are posting shit from 30 years ago Gramps?


Obama spent more money in one year then Reagan did.


.

So has Trump, that is the nature of inflation. Percentage wise Obama added just about half as much as Reagan.

 

[iceberg]

So IF Trump does end it what do you exactly think will happen? Do you expect both countries to fire off all their nuclear arsenals? Do you expect a giant frenzy of nuclear missle building?

Myself I expect pretty much what has happened in the last ten years or more. Each country will go about doing what they think is best for their country. I do not expect a nuclear war. I do not expect a conventional war. Both countries know better.

I do agree it will not lead to a war, but a new arms race is very likely.

Why? We can blow up the world 5x over already.

It will be done after the 1st time, though.

The push, at least by Russia, seems to be smaller, more tactical nukes that theoretically can be used without starting WWIII.

Think about it, if Russia used such a device do you think we would retaliate with a action that wold start WWIII or would we take other measures?

that may well be his mindset, but this country can't tell the difference between an AR15 and a semi automatic 308 hunting rifle.and still thinks automatic weapons are easily available.

trying to explain different types of nukes isn't going to go over well to a generation that thinks the headlines are enough news for the day.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

So IF Trump does end it what do you exactly think will happen? Do you expect both countries to fire off all their nuclear arsenals? Do you expect a giant frenzy of nuclear missle building?

Myself I expect pretty much what has happened in the last ten years or more. Each country will go about doing what they think is best for their country. I do not expect a nuclear war. I do not expect a conventional war. Both countries know better.

I do agree it will not lead to a war, but a new arms race is very likely.

Why? We can blow up the world 5x over already.

It will be done after the 1st time, though.

The push, at least by Russia, seems to be smaller, more tactical nukes that theoretically can be used without starting WWIII.

Think about it, if Russia used such a device do you think we would retaliate with a action that wold start WWIII or would we take other measures?

that may well be his mindset, but this country can't tell the difference between an AR15 and a semi automatic 308 hunting rifle.and still thinks automatic weapons are easily available.

trying to explain different types of nukes isn't going to go over well to a generation that thinks the headlines are enough news for the day.

Fair point

 

[Marion Morrison]

Not true at all. This action in particular opens the way for a new arms race which Putin seems to want.

You couldn't be more wrong. Russia is broke. See the price of oil lately? They will NOT get into another arms race with the U.S. They can't afford it.

And we can? We added 1.27 TRILLION dollars to our national debt in the FY that just ended. The last arms race led to a 186% jump in our debt under Reagan, we cannot afford such a thing again.

You are posting shit from 30 years ago Gramps?


Obama spent more money in one year then Reagan did.


.

So has Trump, that is the nature of inflation. Percentage wise Obama added just about half as much as Reagan.

What inflation under Obama? There was nothing but quantitative easing to make him appear better than he was. Interest rate difference between Reagan and Obama=-?

Obama still spent the most out of any president.

 

[Maxdeath]

So IF Trump does end it what do you exactly think will happen? Do you expect both countries to fire off all their nuclear arsenals? Do you expect a giant frenzy of nuclear missle building?

Myself I expect pretty much what has happened in the last ten years or more. Each country will go about doing what they think is best for their country. I do not expect a nuclear war. I do not expect a conventional war. Both countries know better.

And when Russia is done with Ukraine & goes after another old USSR country?

So I take it you are sitting there with your woody thinking that having a world ending nuclear war will definitely end Trump being president.

I suppose we could just keep redrawing red lines.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Not true at all. This action in particular opens the way for a new arms race which Putin seems to want.

You couldn't be more wrong. Russia is broke. See the price of oil lately? They will NOT get into another arms race with the U.S. They can't afford it.

And we can? We added 1.27 TRILLION dollars to our national debt in the FY that just ended. The last arms race led to a 186% jump in our debt under Reagan, we cannot afford such a thing again.

You are posting shit from 30 years ago Gramps?


Obama spent more money in one year then Reagan did.


.

So has Trump, that is the nature of inflation. Percentage wise Obama added just about half as much as Reagan.

What inflation under Obama? There nothing but quantitative easing to make him appear better than he was. Interest rate difference between Reagan and Obama=-?

I thought you were smarter than this...silly me.

Consumer Price Index, 1913- | Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis

 

[Marion Morrison]

1980

13.5%

Oh, The high interest rates were Carter..they dropped with Reagan..whoops. I remembered it wrong. Sue me.

 

[Wyatt earp]

You couldn't be more wrong. Russia is broke. See the price of oil lately? They will NOT get into another arms race with the U.S. They can't afford it.

And we can? We added 1.27 TRILLION dollars to our national debt in the FY that just ended. The last arms race led to a 186% jump in our debt under Reagan, we cannot afford such a thing again.

You are posting shit from 30 years ago Gramps?


Obama spent more money in one year then Reagan did.


.

So has Trump, that is the nature of inflation. Percentage wise Obama added just about half as much as Reagan.

What inflation under Obama? There nothing but quantitative easing to make him appear better than he was. Interest rate difference between Reagan and Obama=-?

I thought you were smarter than this...silly me.

View attachment 232868

Consumer Price Index, 1913- | Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis

It makes you feel good using percentage instead of real dollars doesn't it fake?

 

[Pilot1]

Even with ZERO interest rates the Obama economy sucked. Due to eight years of Quantitative Easing, and historically low interest rates, which is a sign of a WEAK economy, Trump now has to deal with the Fed raising interest rates on a regular basis.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

And we can? We added 1.27 TRILLION dollars to our national debt in the FY that just ended. The last arms race led to a 186% jump in our debt under Reagan, we cannot afford such a thing again.

You are posting shit from 30 years ago Gramps?


Obama spent more money in one year then Reagan did.


.

So has Trump, that is the nature of inflation. Percentage wise Obama added just about half as much as Reagan.

What inflation under Obama? There nothing but quantitative easing to make him appear better than he was. Interest rate difference between Reagan and Obama=-?

I thought you were smarter than this...silly me.

View attachment 232868

Consumer Price Index, 1913- | Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis

It makes you feel good using percentage instead of real dollars doesn't it fake?

It does not make me feel good, it just shows that I have a brain and you do not. If you had made it past the 3rd grade you would understand why percentages are used. The same reason the stock markets use percentages and not just straight points.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Even with ZERO interest rates the Obama economy sucked. Due to eight years of Quantitative Easing, and historically low interest rates, which is a sign of a WEAK economy, Trump now has to deal with the Fed raising interest rates on a regular basis.

The economy is no different today than it was the past 6 years.

 

[ErikViking]

US warns Russia it is ready to abandon key nuclear pact

the cold war may be firing back up. reagan got this signed and done to end it and given russia's moves lately, we're ready to end it if it doesn't change.

I think (gut feeling) that it’s a good move to stand up against Russia. USA is clearly showing that they won’t be pushed around. Works well with the abandoned meeting at G20. I say “good” with a little hesitation, the world really needs stability now - but not on Russia’s terms.

 

[MisterBeale]

US warns Russia it is ready to abandon key nuclear pact

the cold war may be firing back up. reagan got this signed and done to end it and given russia's moves lately, we're ready to end it if it doesn't change.

Do you have any links to the alternative POV, like from Russia? From China? From Iran? What is the POV coming from these nations?

Why should we believe the Anglo-American establishment? We know the banking cabal's currency is unstable, we know that they have been putting pressure on Russia for the past decade, encircling them with troops, bases, propaganda.

I'm not saying this report is untrue, I'm just saying I am SUPER SKEPTICAL of it.



IT is my sincere belief that the global Anglon-American/Nato/IMP Alliance power really want to force some confrontation with the muliti-polar world, because their economic system has some basic instabilities that have never really been resolved. War is the easiest way out for them.

Look at the mass immigration pressures to the west. Look at the mass protests. Look at the lies both blocks tell their people. Look at the corruption in both governments. Can anything written and told to the world's populations be believed?

This is the basic flaw of all debt based currency. They get so deflated, and then they need to be reset with an empire collapse, new currency, major depression, major war or combination of them. It happens regularly, almost like clock work.


I don't think they really ever worked out the problems that cropped up during 2008, they just found a way to put it off. The realities of the systems limitations and inequalities are coming due.


Just my POV.

no. i don't even see this on many other sites. no issues at all calling for more data cause that's what we need. other perspectives also. hopefully we'll see more come through today or if not, maybe it will die down and be nothing in the end.

but with the state of the world today, it just seems something bad is on the horizon.

Yeah, I've scoured the alternative media myself. All of my American alt. media sources are too busy writing on other things, either controlled opposition or limited resources? I guess you have to pick and choose where you focus your attention.

This is the best I have, it is alternative Journalists and commenters banned from the establishment Guardian. Unfortunately, nothing specifically on the INF.;

US Switching to Ukraine as Location to Start World War III
US Switching to Ukraine as Location to Start World War III

The only mention of it I can find is in Russian media mentioning how the it is one of the few issues, Trump's detractors, the neo-liberals and neocons, the liberal warmongers, the so-called Astro-Turfed, "Resistance" don't have any bones to pick with Trump what so ever. There is almost total MSM silence on. They all think he is doing the right thing. Strange, huh?

This is the piece of Russian news. It does bring up certain truths, although, it is from the POV of their interests. We do have them encircled with our military, we have the world's media saturated with our world view, and we have so many more bases, and the world economy is ours.

On top of that, the amount of GDP spent on military expenditures can't even be compared. So empirically, comparing one nation as threat, and the level of clandestine activities. . . . just by basic logic when you research each nation's interaction with terrorist groups, etc.

Still, we do have to keep in mind it IS propaganda and their expansionist activities over the past few decades and their naked authoritarian attitudes. I think only one of them mentions the INF in passing.

Overall, governments just suck.

Western Public “Does Not Know”, or “Does Not Want to Know”?
Western Public “Does Not Know”, or “Does Not Want to Know”? | New Eastern Outlook

Washington is Getting Dangerously Jumpy
Washington is Getting Dangerously Jumpy | New Eastern Outlook


I hope some of these perspectives are helpful.

 

[Olde Europe]

US warns Russia it is ready to abandon key nuclear pact

the cold war may be firing back up. reagan got this signed and done to end it and given russia's moves lately, we're ready to end it if it doesn't change.

I think (gut feeling) that it’s a good move to stand up against Russia. USA is clearly showing that they won’t be pushed around. Works well with the abandoned meeting at G20. I say “good” with a little hesitation, the world really needs stability now - but not on Russia’s terms.

Heavens...

Everyone's having their bit of the fun pushing poor, widdle U.S. of A. around, no? Ever the victim that needs to stand up to the bullies.

And the U.S., developing their ship- and plane-based intermediate-range missiles, has nothing - NOTHING - to do with it.

How about getting serious about that issue, like, debating the moves by both Putin and Trump in light of strategy and security interests? How about seeing, for a minute or two, the world from Putin's perspective in terms of NATO's borders creeping into what Russia deems its sphere of influence and right up to the Russian border?

How about identifying the arms-control-treaty-busting figure likely behind the now-issued "ultimatum", who likely goes by the name of "Bolton"? And while we are at it, if the aim is to reduce the threat of complete annihilation, how helpful is an "ultimatum" to achieve that aim? Conversely, isn't an ultimatum much more likely to stiffen the other side's resolve and to blow up the INF treaty, and is it so far off to think it was issued exactly with that goal in mind?

 

[Pilot1]

^^^^^You don't understand that it is purely a negotiation position.

 

[iceberg]

US warns Russia it is ready to abandon key nuclear pact

the cold war may be firing back up. reagan got this signed and done to end it and given russia's moves lately, we're ready to end it if it doesn't change.

I think (gut feeling) that it’s a good move to stand up against Russia. USA is clearly showing that they won’t be pushed around. Works well with the abandoned meeting at G20. I say “good” with a little hesitation, the world really needs stability now - but not on Russia’s terms.

Heavens...

Everyone's having their bit of the fun pushing poor, widdle U.S. of A. around, no? Ever the victim that needs to stand up to the bullies.

And the U.S., developing their ship- and plane-based intermediate-range missiles, has nothing - NOTHING - to do with it.

How about getting serious about that issue, like, debating the moves by both Putin and Trump in light of strategy and security interests? How about seeing, for a minute or two, the world from Putin's perspective in terms of NATO's boarders creeping into what Russia deems its sphere of influence and right up to the Russian border?

How about identifying the arms-control-treaty-busting figure likely behind the now-issued "ultimatum", who likely goes by the name of "Bolton"? And while we are at it, if the aim is to reduce the threat of complete annihilation, how helpful is an "ultimatum" to achieve that aim? Conversely, isn't an ultimatum much more likely to stiffen the other side's resolve and to blow up the INF treaty, and is it so far off to think it was issued exactly with that goal in mind?

how about dropping the sarcastic snark and posting links to these things you talk of so we can discuss them and get the very perspectives many are looking for in this thread.

is your goal to be an ass, or to have conservations?

 

[ErikViking]

US warns Russia it is ready to abandon key nuclear pact

the cold war may be firing back up. reagan got this signed and done to end it and given russia's moves lately, we're ready to end it if it doesn't change.

I think (gut feeling) that it’s a good move to stand up against Russia. USA is clearly showing that they won’t be pushed around. Works well with the abandoned meeting at G20. I say “good” with a little hesitation, the world really needs stability now - but not on Russia’s terms.

Heavens...

Everyone's having their bit of the fun pushing poor, widdle U.S. of A. around, no? Ever the victim that needs to stand up to the bullies.

And the U.S., developing their ship- and plane-based intermediate-range missiles, has nothing - NOTHING - to do with it.

How about getting serious about that issue, like, debating the moves by both Putin and Trump in light of strategy and security interests? How about seeing, for a minute or two, the world from Putin's perspective in terms of NATO's boarders creeping into what Russia deems its sphere of influence and right up to the Russian border?

How about identifying the arms-control-treaty-busting figure likely behind the now-issued "ultimatum", who likely goes by the name of "Bolton"? And while we are at it, if the aim is to reduce the threat of complete annihilation, how helpful is an "ultimatum" to achieve that aim? Conversely, isn't an ultimatum much more likely to stiffen the other side's resolve and to blow up the INF treaty, and is it so far off to think it was issued exactly with that goal in mind?

Good point.
Really good.

It’s just something gnarling me about Russia. And I have no desire to look upon the world from the super corrupt Russian leadership. There’s no law, practice, treaty or alliance sacred to them.

This maybe make me somewhat blind or biased.

 

[MisterBeale]

US warns Russia it is ready to abandon key nuclear pact

the cold war may be firing back up. reagan got this signed and done to end it and given russia's moves lately, we're ready to end it if it doesn't change.

Do you have any links to the alternative POV, like from Russia? From China? From Iran? What is the POV coming from these nations?

Why should we believe the Anglo-American establishment? We know the banking cabal's currency is unstable, we know that they have been putting pressure on Russia for the past decade, encircling them with troops, bases, propaganda.

I'm not saying this report is untrue, I'm just saying I am SUPER SKEPTICAL of it.



IT is my sincere belief that the global Anglon-American/Nato/IMP Alliance power really want to force some confrontation with the muliti-polar world, because their economic system has some basic instabilities that have never really been resolved. War is the easiest way out for them.

Look at the mass immigration pressures to the west. Look at the mass protests. Look at the lies both blocks tell their people. Look at the corruption in both governments. Can anything written and told to the world's populations be believed?

This is the basic flaw of all debt based currency. They get so deflated, and then they need to be reset with an empire collapse, new currency, major depression, major war or combination of them. It happens regularly, almost like clock work.


I don't think they really ever worked out the problems that cropped up during 2008, they just found a way to put it off. The realities of the systems limitations and inequalities are coming due.


Just my POV.

no. i don't even see this on many other sites. no issues at all calling for more data cause that's what we need. other perspectives also. hopefully we'll see more come through today or if not, maybe it will die down and be nothing in the end.

but with the state of the world today, it just seems something bad is on the horizon.

Yeah, I've scoured the alternative media myself. All of my American alt. media sources are too busy writing on other things, either controlled opposition or limited resources? I guess you have to pick and choose where you focus your attention.

This is the best I have, it is alternative Journalists and commenters banned from the establishment Guardian. Unfortunately, nothing specifically on the INF.;

US Switching to Ukraine as Location to Start World War III
US Switching to Ukraine as Location to Start World War III

The only mention of it I can find is in Russian media mentioning how the it is one of the few issues, Trump's detractors, the neo-liberals and neocons, the liberal warmongers, the so-called Astro-Turfed, "Resistance" don't have any bones to pick with Trump what so ever. There is almost total MSM silence on. They all think he is doing the right thing. Strange, huh?

This is the piece of Russian news. It does bring up certain truths, although, it is from the POV of their interests. We do have them encircled with our military, we have the world's media saturated with our world view, and we have so many more bases, and the world economy is ours.

On top of that, the amount of GDP spent on military expenditures can't even be compared. So empirically, comparing one nation as threat, and the level of clandestine activities. . . . just by basic logic when you research each nation's interaction with terrorist groups, etc.

Still, we do have to keep in mind it IS propaganda and their expansionist activities over the past few decades and their naked authoritarian attitudes. I think only one of them mentions the INF in passing.

Overall, governments just suck.

Western Public “Does Not Know”, or “Does Not Want to Know”?
Western Public “Does Not Know”, or “Does Not Want to Know”? | New Eastern Outlook

Washington is Getting Dangerously Jumpy
Washington is Getting Dangerously Jumpy | New Eastern Outlook


I hope some of these perspectives are helpful.

On that third article, I was skeptical of that bio-weapon claim, so I fact checked it.

It checks out.

Viruses Spread by Insects to Crops Sound Scary. The Military Calls It Food Security.

 

[hunarcy]

Ending it is a big part of why Reagan added 186% to the national debt in his 8 years. We added 1.27 trillion in the previous FY without an arms race and in a booming economy. Not sure reigniting the cold war and having another arms race is a good idea.

pretty sure it's a horrible idea but now on the table. Like Pilot says also, for now it's simply political posturing. but not a good place to be when we have to do it to this level.

may you live in interesting times.

"The United States warned Russia Tuesday it has 60 days to start complying with a landmark nuclear missile treaty or Washington will abandon the pact, raising concern about Europe’s future security."

Perhaps it's not a horrible idea if the Russians weren't complying with the treaty.

 

[Olde Europe]

how about dropping the sarcastic snark and posting links to these things you talk of so we can discuss them and get the very perspectives many are looking for in this thread.

I am all for well-deserved snark. As to your homework, you might start here.