US Troops in serious peril now..Terry Jones burns Koran

[Liberty]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91AM7665cbo]YouTube - The Original Burn the Quran Day[/ame]

 

[manifold]

If he had balls he would have went downtown Dearborn Mi, (largest arab population in the US) and then burned the Koran. To me he is a chickenshit. Gonna do some dumb shit like that and then let someone else pay for it. I say be a man and stand up for the shit you say, don't be affraid to take an ass beating for you beliefs. Unless you don't believe them.

If you weren't a chickenshit coward, you'd go down to Florida and tell him that to his face.

I'll tell you what, when his followers kill twelve Michiganders in Florida for me calling him a chickenshit. Then you will have proven me a hypocrite, and I can stand corrected. Until then, I am right.

Actually, you are wrong. Your logic is severely perverted and therefore your conclusion is equally erroneous.

But whatcha gonna do?

 

[Vel]

If you start trying to pass responsibility around for the UN workers deaths to others than those who committed the murders, then it simply gives others the idea that murder can be justified if you don't like what someone says or does.

How long do you think it will be before someone decides to blame the victims? It will be said that.."Well those U.N. workers should have known that Muslims go batshit crazy for any fucking reason and could show up in a crazed pack and start randomly killing. After all, they've done it before."

ALL responsibility for those killings belongs to the murderous thugs that committed them. No one MADE them kill, they CHOSE their reaction.

 

[Ravi]

If you start trying to pass responsibility around for the UN workers deaths to others than those who committed the murders, then it simply gives others the idea that murder can be justified if you don't like what someone says or does.

How long do you think it will be before someone decides to blame the victims? It will be said that.."Well those U.N. workers should have known that Muslims go batshit crazy for any fucking reason and could show up in a crazed pack and start randomly killing. After all, they've done it before."

ALL responsibility for those killings belongs to the murderous thugs that committed them. No one MADE them kill, they CHOSE their reaction.

These are some good points that you've made. However, it is really no different to cast some blame on Jones for his action than it is to cast the blame on Islam for the actions of some of its supposed followers.

Jones blames Islam for the actions of a few (relatively speaking). Since he does that he should accept his own culpability.

He is no better than what he condemns.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I'll say one thing for Terry Jones.....the man has a huge set of balls

He knew what the reaction would be and did it anyway. Now his life is not worth shit. He must live looking over his shoulder to see if someone is out to kill him. All to impress Jesus

If he had balls he would have went downtown Dearborn Mi, (largest arab population in the US) and then burned the Koran. To me he is a chickenshit. Gonna do some dumb shit like that and then let someone else pay for it. I say be a man and stand up for the shit you say, don't be affraid to take an ass beating for you beliefs. Unless you don't believe them.

Doing that would prove how intolerant Islam is.
How many Chirstians killed an atheist because of the movie The Last Temptation Of Christ?

 

[rightwinger]

If you start trying to pass responsibility around for the UN workers deaths to others than those who committed the murders, then it simply gives others the idea that murder can be justified if you don't like what someone says or does.

How long do you think it will be before someone decides to blame the victims? It will be said that.."Well those U.N. workers should have known that Muslims go batshit crazy for any fucking reason and could show up in a crazed pack and start randomly killing. After all, they've done it before."

ALL responsibility for those killings belongs to the murderous thugs that committed them. No one MADE them kill, they CHOSE their reaction.

In laying blame it does not have to be either/or

It can apply to both

 

[MikeK]

[...]

They don't have a right to kill people over it...that you approve of this is even worse than manifoid's approval of Jones.

They don't have a right to kill people over it under our law. But they didn't do that in our country. They did it in their country, where our presence is accommodated by force and our laws are morally irrelevant. Burning the Koran anywhere in the world, which directly offends their spiritual essence, is simply a matter of adding insult to an already tormenting injury.

Try reversing the situation in your mind. Can you accept the premise that killing invaders is not murder? The incitement to kill invaders was the underlying motive for what happened -- and that incitement will prevail for as long as we remain in Afghanistan as an occupying force. The Koran burning was more of an incidental provocation than a primary motive.

We need to get out of Afghanistan.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

In other words, he sacrificed 12 lives to prove a point? That is an awfully expensive point!

I didn't agree with his plans to burn the Koran. I think it was petty and stupid. But now, he doesn't even have the courage to stand up and take responsibility?

Koran-burning pastor says not responsible for UN deaths - Yahoo! News

Immie

Why should he take any blame? Would we blame an artist depicting a small plastic crucifix supporting the body of Jesus Christ submerged in a glass of the artist's urine, OR WOULD WE BLAME THE CHRISTIAN WHO WENT OUT AND KILLED THE ARTIST FOR DOING IT?

The other day, I got chewed out by a liberal for joking that I would blame liberals if conservatives started killing liberals because they hate God. I think I have to be very careful in how I answer this question.

It does not appear that you have read the entire thread. As I have not said that we should blame him for the murders. I HAVE stated that his actions incited the actions of those murderers in Afghanistan. He cannot deny that and what is worse is that he had every reason to believe that his actions would lead to something like this.

If you were standing in a building above a street that had the army on one side and some angry citizens (think Concord) on the other side. You had a rifle and you knew that discharging a shot would unleash havoc and start a war and you deliberately fired a shot into the air and a war began because of that shot, then you damn well better expect me to blame you.

Immie

You had a rifle and you knew that discharging a shot would unleash havoc and start a war and you deliberately fired a shot into the air and a war began because of that shot, then you damn well better expect me to blame you.

You are comparing apples to oranges. To blame me would be because I did a physical act to cause something to happen. But to blame me for something I did indirectly is not my fault because someone killed someone. The act would be on them. (think personal responsibility) Which is something the left does not have a grasp on.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I think there is confusion between Terry Jones taking blame for the killings and taking responsibility for what he said, the two are very different. Terry Jones cannot take the blame because he killed no one, also should not face any charges what so ever. Terry Jones should however be held responsible for what he said, like in civil court. No he didn't kill them, but his speach was such that it instigated the killings.

What you're suggesting is something like blame gun manufactures for what a person does with a gun if they kill someone with it. Or blaming a bar tender for a drunk who drives a car an kills a family while driving. That dog doesn't fly in my book.

No, what I'm asking is for him to be a man, and one with a backbone. A man when he speaks and acts is taken at his word, until otherwise proven he can't, which makes him no man at all. He knew what reaction he was going to get (99% violent), and hoped for it (I believe). He should have went to a muslim community to have his burning, so as a man, he could stand behind his words and actions, and defend them against all those who oppose them. When you do something in public you invite public response that is given. So I'm just asking him to be a man. But I can see he proved himself not to be a man.

The man did nothing wrong. The attackers did.

 

[Againsheila]

there is nothing more important than our Words, and words have consequences according to the Bible....so, on a personal sense, I think what this so called Christian Minister did and said went against EVERYTHING that Christ has taught....

Other Christian ministers begged him not to do what he planned, burning another religion's sacred book en mass.

Because it goes against every single teaching of Christ and makes other Christians look bad, just like Fred Phelps.

So, for this reason, for religious reasons, I think this Minister should NOT have had a jolly ole bonfire in the name of Christ, as he did. It was not him as an individual doing such, but him as a Minister and follower of Christ that did this.....and that's unacceptable to me.

And I am not trying to have the gvt squash his freedom of speech, but none the less I was and am against what he did....and will forever be against what he did.

If only you showed as much vehemence against the Muslims that killed the 12 UN workers.

 

[Immanuel]

Why should he take any blame? Would we blame an artist depicting a small plastic crucifix supporting the body of Jesus Christ submerged in a glass of the artist's urine, OR WOULD WE BLAME THE CHRISTIAN WHO WENT OUT AND KILLED THE ARTIST FOR DOING IT?

The other day, I got chewed out by a liberal for joking that I would blame liberals if conservatives started killing liberals because they hate God. I think I have to be very careful in how I answer this question.

It does not appear that you have read the entire thread. As I have not said that we should blame him for the murders. I HAVE stated that his actions incited the actions of those murderers in Afghanistan. He cannot deny that and what is worse is that he had every reason to believe that his actions would lead to something like this.

If you were standing in a building above a street that had the army on one side and some angry citizens (think Concord) on the other side. You had a rifle and you knew that discharging a shot would unleash havoc and start a war and you deliberately fired a shot into the air and a war began because of that shot, then you damn well better expect me to blame you.

Immie

You had a rifle and you knew that discharging a shot would unleash havoc and start a war and you deliberately fired a shot into the air and a war began because of that shot, then you damn well better expect me to blame you.

You are comparing apples to oranges. To blame me would be because I did a physical act to cause something to happen. But to blame me for something I did indirectly is not my fault because someone killed someone. The act would be on them. (think personal responsibility) Which is something the left does not have a grasp on.

No, bigreb, that is not comparing apples to oranges. Jones performed a physical act and then broadcast it over the internet so that everyone could see it including Muslims. That is no different than firing the shot that was heard around the world.

Jones knew full well that there was a likelihood that his actions would result in some kind of retaliation. As for the gruesomeness of their actions, he only needed to think back to Nick Berg, for crying out loud. Jones is not an idiot. He knew what the consequences of his actions were. He made the conscious decision to say, "I don't give a shit who gets hurt by my actions. I am going to do it anyway." That is why I believe he bears some contributory blame in this instance.

I don't think he should be punished for it and I don't think we should change our laws over it, after all, the freedom of speech allows morons the right to say whatever they damn well want to say. But, I hope it eats into his conscience until the day he dies.

Immie

 

[Againsheila]

Ah, Bullshit. I knew this was going to be the conservative mantra on here, and it only took us three posts to get there.

Tacit disapproval of the actions of our own douchbag countryman for intentionally inciting violence and death in Afghanistan does not equate to tacit support of violence and death.

In other words, pointing out that Jones is a total fucktard doesn't mean we approve of the actions of religious extremists.

If there was any justice in the world, Jones would be given an M-4, as much water, food and bullets as he can carry and a one way ticket to Afghanistan to wage his Holy War.

However, since Jones is a fucking coward, that will never happen. Instead, other men and women will bear the brunt of the fall out for his cavalier attitude.

So fuck him, and fuck anyone that glosses over what he did.

But most of all fuck EVERYONE that believes we should curb free speech here at home in a failed attempt to appease barbaric savages in other countries.

Would you please show me where anyone said anything about curbing his free speech?

I, for one, believe that he contributed to these events, but I have never stated that I believe his rights should be curbed and I don't believe anyone in this thread that has taken a similar stance has stated that we should curb his rights.

Immie

Then you aren't paying attention, even to your own words.

 

[Immanuel]

But most of all fuck EVERYONE that believes we should curb free speech here at home in a failed attempt to appease barbaric savages in other countries.

Would you please show me where anyone said anything about curbing his free speech?

I, for one, believe that he contributed to these events, but I have never stated that I believe his rights should be curbed and I don't believe anyone in this thread that has taken a similar stance has stated that we should curb his rights.

Immie

Then you aren't paying attention, even to your own words.

Really? Show me.

Immie

 

[Againsheila]

I can just see Terry Jones in the pulpit tomorrow gloating over how much he has accomplished in the name of Jesus

I think maybe I will leave now. I can be in Gainesville in a couple of hours. Find a hotel room spend the night and then go to his service. Shall I report to you on the sermon?

Umm, on second thought, I think I will not be in the vicinity. That man may very well be marked.

Immie

Didn't you call him a coward? Yet you think he may be marked and so you won't go to his church? Do you know the definition of the word "coward"?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The other day, I got chewed out by a liberal for joking that I would blame liberals if conservatives started killing liberals because they hate God. I think I have to be very careful in how I answer this question.

It does not appear that you have read the entire thread. As I have not said that we should blame him for the murders. I HAVE stated that his actions incited the actions of those murderers in Afghanistan. He cannot deny that and what is worse is that he had every reason to believe that his actions would lead to something like this.

If you were standing in a building above a street that had the army on one side and some angry citizens (think Concord) on the other side. You had a rifle and you knew that discharging a shot would unleash havoc and start a war and you deliberately fired a shot into the air and a war began because of that shot, then you damn well better expect me to blame you.

Immie

You had a rifle and you knew that discharging a shot would unleash havoc and start a war and you deliberately fired a shot into the air and a war began because of that shot, then you damn well better expect me to blame you.

You are comparing apples to oranges. To blame me would be because I did a physical act to cause something to happen. But to blame me for something I did indirectly is not my fault because someone killed someone. The act would be on them. (think personal responsibility) Which is something the left does not have a grasp on.

No, bigreb, that is not comparing apples to oranges. Jones performed a physical act and then broadcast it over the internet so that everyone could see it including Muslims. That is no different than firing the shot that was heard around the world.

Jones knew full well that there was a likelihood that his actions would result in some kind of retaliation. As for the gruesomeness of their actions, he only needed to think back to Nick Berg, for crying out loud. Jones is not an idiot. He knew what the consequences of his actions were. He made the conscious decision to say, "I don't give a shit who gets hurt by my actions. I am going to do it anyway." That is why I believe he bears some contributory blame in this instance.

I don't think he should be punished for it and I don't think we should change our laws over it, after all, the freedom of speech allows morons the right to say whatever they damn well want to say. But, I hope it eats into his conscience until the day he dies.

Immie

No, bigreb, that is not comparing apples to oranges. Jones performed a physical act and then broadcast it over the internet so that everyone could see it including Muslims. That is no different than firing the shot that was heard around the world.

NO Jones's act harmed no one. Me using a gun would. See the difference?

Jones knew full well that there was a likelihood that his actions would result in some kind of retaliation.

Fuck'em with a broom stick, it makes me want to burn a quran now. If those bastards wanted to take action why didn't they go to Fla.? Because theyae to chickenshit that's why.

 

[Immanuel]

I can just see Terry Jones in the pulpit tomorrow gloating over how much he has accomplished in the name of Jesus

I think maybe I will leave now. I can be in Gainesville in a couple of hours. Find a hotel room spend the night and then go to his service. Shall I report to you on the sermon?

Umm, on second thought, I think I will not be in the vicinity. That man may very well be marked.

Immie

Didn't you call him a coward? Yet you think he may be marked and so you won't go to his church? Do you know the definition of the word "coward"?

The point was that I was not about to drive 100 miles just to go see him today. I wasn't going anyway but I did make the statement that he might very well be marked.

One reason, I would not go to his church, is that I don't respect him as a preacher.

Now are you or are you not going to show me where I said his freedom of speech should be curbed?

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

You are comparing apples to oranges. To blame me would be because I did a physical act to cause something to happen. But to blame me for something I did indirectly is not my fault because someone killed someone. The act would be on them. (think personal responsibility) Which is something the left does not have a grasp on.

No, bigreb, that is not comparing apples to oranges. Jones performed a physical act and then broadcast it over the internet so that everyone could see it including Muslims. That is no different than firing the shot that was heard around the world.

Jones knew full well that there was a likelihood that his actions would result in some kind of retaliation. As for the gruesomeness of their actions, he only needed to think back to Nick Berg, for crying out loud. Jones is not an idiot. He knew what the consequences of his actions were. He made the conscious decision to say, "I don't give a shit who gets hurt by my actions. I am going to do it anyway." That is why I believe he bears some contributory blame in this instance.

I don't think he should be punished for it and I don't think we should change our laws over it, after all, the freedom of speech allows morons the right to say whatever they damn well want to say. But, I hope it eats into his conscience until the day he dies.

Immie

No, bigreb, that is not comparing apples to oranges. Jones performed a physical act and then broadcast it over the internet so that everyone could see it including Muslims. That is no different than firing the shot that was heard around the world.

NO Jones's act harmed no one. Me using a gun would. See the difference?

Jones knew full well that there was a likelihood that his actions would result in some kind of retaliation.

Fuck'em with a broom stick, it makes me want to burn a quran now. If those bastards wanted to take action why didn't they go to Fla.? Because theyae to chickenshit that's why.

As far as I know the shot heard around the world was not aimed at anyone. It hurt no one.

Yes, they are cowards... they resort to IEDs and women/children as suicide bombers... your point is?

Immie

 

[manifold]

Jones is no better than what he condemns.

Right, because burning a book as part of a peaceful demonstration is no better than hacking an innocent person's head off with a machette.

 

[Againsheila]

I think maybe I will leave now. I can be in Gainesville in a couple of hours. Find a hotel room spend the night and then go to his service. Shall I report to you on the sermon?

Umm, on second thought, I think I will not be in the vicinity. That man may very well be marked.

Immie

Didn't you call him a coward? Yet you think he may be marked and so you won't go to his church? Do you know the definition of the word "coward"?

The point was that I was not about to drive 100 miles just to go see him today. I wasn't going anyway but I did make the statement that he might very well be marked.

One reason, I would not go to his church, is that I don't respect him as a preacher.

Now are you or are you not going to show me where I said his freedom of speech should be curbed?

Immie

Read your words, you are the one that said you'd go to his church and then changed your mind because he might be "marked". That makes YOU a coward, not him. He's just a stupid idiot, but he'd not a coward. A coward would not have burned the Koran because it would make him a "marked" man.

As for showing you...You said neither you now anyone else, you simply aren't paying attention. What do you call wanting to turn him over to the Taliban? Oh wait a minute, that was you, wasn't it?

Quite simply a lot of people here want to curb his right to free speech, after the fact.

He had the right to burn that stupid book. They didn't have the right to kill 12 innocent people. Do you not see the difference?

If it was a flag he burned and bunch of neoconservatists went on a killing spree, who would you be after, the flag burner or the murderers. Yeah, I thought so.

 

[Immanuel]

Didn't you call him a coward? Yet you think he may be marked and so you won't go to his church? Do you know the definition of the word "coward"?

The point was that I was not about to drive 100 miles just to go see him today. I wasn't going anyway but I did make the statement that he might very well be marked.

One reason, I would not go to his church, is that I don't respect him as a preacher.

Now are you or are you not going to show me where I said his freedom of speech should be curbed?

Immie

Read your words, you are the one that said you'd go to his church and then changed your mind because he might be "marked". That makes YOU a coward, not him. He's just a stupid idiot, but he'd not a coward. A coward would not have burned the Koran because it would make him a "marked" man.

As for showing you...You said neither you now anyone else, you simply aren't paying attention. What do you call wanting to turn him over to the Taliban? Oh wait a minute, that was you, wasn't it?

Quite simply a lot of people here want to curb his right to free speech, after the fact.

He had the right to burn that stupid book. They didn't have the right to kill 12 innocent people. Do you not see the difference?

If it was a flag he burned and bunch of neoconservatists went on a killing spree, who would you be after, the flag burner or the murderers. Yeah, I thought so.

You are not telling the truth. I have never said anything about turning him over to the taliban. I certainly hope you have mistaken me for someone else and are not deliberately lying.

I have also stated that the murderers should be tried and shot.

Immie