Utah police officer fired after handcuffing, dragging nurse from hospital

[MikeK]

Having seen this story when it happened, I am delighted to see he got the boot.
He was wrong on so many levels. I hope he learned something, and I hope the nurse regains her trust.

Nurses, especially ER nurses, come in frequent contact with lots of different cops. So I'm quite sure this one realizes that one individual was a loose cannon who is not representative of all cops and that she has prevailed in what was an unfortunate and unusual encounter.

Nonsense. First the nurse prevailed only when the video was released. Only then did the ongoing investigation result in suspension and termination. Only after the public was outraged did the people who had been silently supportive of the barbarians run for the exits.

The day before the video was released the department that had reviewed the video was doing nothing. The mayor who had been briefed did zip. The city attorneys was mum. Once the video was public then the narrative changed to rogue loose cannon cop. The day before why he was a good cop with years of dedicated service.

The idea that this was an aberration is laughable. The nurse had the policy letter handy. It was quickly accessed and read to the cop. When he continued to insist she called the bosses. That tells me this was a routine discussion. Something that happens frequently. The arrest may be new, but the pressure to just do what they want is certainly not.

So what are you saying here -- that this cop was justified in his plainly unlawful, outrageously authoritarian action?

In spite of the convoluted nonsense you've tried to slide across here the simple and obvious fact is this bullying nitwit has become so accustomed to pushing people around and physically abusing anyone who doesn't dutifully respond to what you mistakenly regard as "lawful orders" (a common military term) that force of habit caused him to step across the line one time too many. The bottom line here is just being an ordinary civil police officer wasn't enough for this guy. He was fired for playing Gestapo Schutzmann one time too many and he got caught. So instead of trying to justify what he did you are well advised to take a lesson from it.

Good riddance.

 

[MikeK]

How is that obvious? The cop asked and she refused. What part wasn't lawful?

He didn't ask. He issued an order -- a command as it were. She declined and he assaulted her (false arrest is assault). And that's why he's gone.

I would wager the brass have had their eye on this guy for some time -- which is why they aren't trying to lie for him. This is one time they are calling it what it is and acting on it.

 

[Vastator]

Given the guy got fired... That's a clear admission of wrongdoings on the departments end. I can't imagine she won't handily win a lawsuit, for a hefty sum of money...

 

[MikeK]

Given the guy got fired... That's a clear admission of wrongdoings on the departments end. I can't imagine she won't handily win a lawsuit, for a hefty sum of money...

You can count on it. The general public would be surprised as well as outraged if they had any idea of how much of their tax dollars are paid out every year in punitive damage awards because of asshole cops. Each and every settlement is accompanied with a "non-disclosure" agreement, which is why they are never reported in the news.

 

[SavannahMann]

Is that a question or statement? Nevermind, you'll never pick a side especially when it's a abusive cop vs a white woman.

Not just a White woman, per se, but a nurse in a hospital.

A nurse who understood the policy she had to follow.

And ignored a lawful order and just so happen that the cop lost his job and wasnt defended publicly

There be the rub. It wasn’t lawful. If the nurse had drawn the blood that would have been an unauthorized medical procedure. The policy of the Hospital was crafted after lawyers took into consideration the relevant laws and court rulings.

Those laws not only cover what evidence police can seize and under what circumstances. They also include patient privacy, malpractice laws, and liability.

Just because the cop wants it doesn’t mean he is legally allowed to get it.

Let’s say the police wish to use my house for surveillance of a neighbor. I say no. I have not committed a crime. If I tell my neighbor then I have. But just saying no is not. A request is not an order. An illegal order is invalid. I have a moral and legal responsibility to refuse illegal orders.

So do you. So did the cop. That is why he had no leg to stand on. He was wrong for obeying an unlawful order. The lieutenant was busted all the way to the bottom. He gave an illegal order. I think he should have been fired too.

 

[OnePercenter]

Is that a question or statement? Nevermind, you'll never pick a side especially when it's a abusive cop vs a white woman.

Not just a White woman, per se, but a nurse in a hospital.

A nurse who understood the policy she had to follow.

And ignored a lawful order and just so happen that the cop lost his job and wasnt defended publicly

Exactly how was this a lawful order?

 

[miketx]

I think he deserved it. He should be prosecuted and if not that, then at least the woman should sue.

 

[OnePercenter]

It's not just the Officer that was fired, but the Lieutenant that was demoted to patrol officer. The Chief should have also been fired.

Everyone does understand that this entire incident was a means to reduce liability.

Quite right. What that cop did would have pissed off the jury in a civil trial and resulted in a substantial punitive damage award. Rest assured the initial settlement offer, alone, would have been impressive.

No, it's about reducing liability if the truck driver is found to be under the influence.

 

[OnePercenter]

I think he deserved it. He should be prosecuted and if not that, then at least the woman should sue.

For following an order from his superior?

This could be the largest civil rights violation in monetary awards in history. The nurse directly, and the family of the truck driver indirectly.

You have two city police departments and the Utah Highway Patrol involved with no award caps.

If pursued, $100 million or more.

 

[Skull Pilot]

he was just doing his job?

The Associated Press on Twitter

No he overstepped his authority and should be shit canned

 

[miketx]

I think he deserved it. He should be prosecuted and if not that, then at least the woman should sue.

For following an order from his superior?

This could be the largest civil rights violation in monetary awards in history. The nurse directly, and the family of the truck driver indirectly.

You have two city police departments and the Utah Highway Patrol involved with no award caps.

If pursued, $100 million or more.

So it's ok with you to do something illegal and or against policy when ordered to. You are wrong.

At the prison one the Lt's and one of the sergeants wanted to talk to me and took me to a deserted location in the prison. This pos told my that they wanted me as back up officer and that whenever she got into it with an offender she wanted me to "bash their head in with a night stick". Not only is that lethal force and against policy it is completely wrong. I refused. I'm not stupid!

 

[SavannahMann]

Having seen this story when it happened, I am delighted to see he got the boot.
He was wrong on so many levels. I hope he learned something, and I hope the nurse regains her trust.

Nurses, especially ER nurses, come in frequent contact with lots of different cops. So I'm quite sure this one realizes that one individual was a loose cannon who is not representative of all cops and that she has prevailed in what was an unfortunate and unusual encounter.

Nonsense. First the nurse prevailed only when the video was released. Only then did the ongoing investigation result in suspension and termination. Only after the public was outraged did the people who had been silently supportive of the barbarians run for the exits.

The day before the video was released the department that had reviewed the video was doing nothing. The mayor who had been briefed did zip. The city attorneys was mum. Once the video was public then the narrative changed to rogue loose cannon cop. The day before why he was a good cop with years of dedicated service.

The idea that this was an aberration is laughable. The nurse had the policy letter handy. It was quickly accessed and read to the cop. When he continued to insist she called the bosses. That tells me this was a routine discussion. Something that happens frequently. The arrest may be new, but the pressure to just do what they want is certainly not.

So what are you saying here -- that this cop was justified in his plainly unlawful, outrageously authoritarian action?

In spite of the convoluted nonsense you've tried to slide across here the simple and obvious fact is this bullying nitwit has become so accustomed to pushing people around and physically abusing anyone who doesn't dutifully respond to what you mistakenly regard as "lawful orders" (a common military term) that force of habit caused him to step across the line one time too many. The bottom line here is just being an ordinary civil police officer wasn't enough for this guy. He was fired for playing Gestapo Schutzmann one time too many and he got caught. So instead of trying to justify what he did you are well advised to take a lesson from it.

Good riddance.

Actually I was saying it wasn’t unusual for the cops to act that way. I was not intimating that it was in any way acceptable. I was responding to the argument that this cop went over the line, but the others would never do that. I believe they have and would again.

 

[mdk]

Good. He got what he deserved for his illegal actions.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Is that a question or statement? Nevermind, you'll never pick a side especially when it's a abusive cop vs a white woman.

Not just a White woman, per se, but a nurse in a hospital.

A nurse who understood the policy she had to follow.

And ignored a lawful order and just so happen that the cop lost his job and wasnt defended publicly

Exactly how was this a lawful order?

Isn't any order given by police a lawful order?

 

[SavannahMann]

Is that a question or statement? Nevermind, you'll never pick a side especially when it's a abusive cop vs a white woman.

Not just a White woman, per se, but a nurse in a hospital.

A nurse who understood the policy she had to follow.

And ignored a lawful order and just so happen that the cop lost his job and wasnt defended publicly

Exactly how was this a lawful order?

Isn't any order given by police a lawful order?

No.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Not just a White woman, per se, but a nurse in a hospital.

A nurse who understood the policy she had to follow.

And ignored a lawful order and just so happen that the cop lost his job and wasnt defended publicly

Exactly how was this a lawful order?

Isn't any order given by police a lawful order?

No.

When is it not a lawful order then?

 

[MikeK]

When is it not a lawful order then?

When plainly conflicting circumstances negate the necessity, therefore the validity, of the order.

 

[MikeK]

Isn't any order given by police a lawful order?

First we should understand that the term, "lawful order," originated in the military and is a common component of military jargon. Each and every function of the military involves the issuing of orders by superiors and the dutiful obedience to orders by subordinates.

Too many civil police "officers," for one psychologically warped reason or other, come to think of themselves as the equivalent of commissioned or non-commissioned military officers. In this distorted sense of their authority they eventually come to regard all ordinary citizens as subordinates who are required to dutifully obey their orders -- any orders, any time, just like in the military.

Some of these deluded egotists are inclined to become enraged when some ordinary citizen has the audacity to question their authority or, worse, fails to dutifully obey their orders. This is a situation which frequently leads to the excessive and/or unlawful use of force -- as in the topic example.

While civil police do have the authority to issue some orders when circumstances call for it, their level of authority over the general public is limited to a very narrow range of circumstances.

 

[SavannahMann]

A nurse who understood the policy she had to follow.

And ignored a lawful order and just so happen that the cop lost his job and wasnt defended publicly

Exactly how was this a lawful order?

Isn't any order given by police a lawful order?

No.

When is it not a lawful order then?

This story is a perfect example. If the nurse had drawn the blood she would have been fired at a minimum. Probably lost her nursing license, and possibly faced civil and criminal action for medical malpractice. I was following orders is never an excuse.

Let’s say you work at a Doctors Office. The cops show up and demand the medical records for John Doe. You give them the records. You have just violated the law under the HIPA act. The officers can subpoena the records, or can show up with a warrant. But not just me Police you obey peasant. You may face arrest if you refuse. You will face severe penalties if you obey.

You violated the doctor patient confidentiality laws. Big lawsuit now. Your Doctor could lose his license, and I guarantee that Doctor will throw you to the wolves to save it.

The cop was wrong. No authority is absolute. That is why he is unemployed. Now he might get a job delivering Pizzas if the local joint is that desperate.

 

[ClosedCaption]

When is it not a lawful order then?

When plainly conflicting circumstances negate the necessity, therefore the validity, of the order.

In English please