Vermont plans launch of ‘universal’ health care system: It’s a ‘right and not a privi

[ScienceRocks]

Vermont plans launch of ‘universal’ health care system: It’s a ‘right and not a privilege’

MONTPELIER, Vt. — As states open insurance marketplaces amid uncertainty about whether they’re a solution for health care, Vermont is eying a bigger goal, one that more fully embraces a government-funded model.

The state has a planned 2017 launch of the nation’s first universal health care system, a sort of modified Medicare-for-all that has long been a dream for many liberals.

The plan is especially ambitious in the current atmosphere surrounding health care in the United States. Republicans in Congress balk at the federal health overhaul years after it was signed into law. States are still negotiating their terms for implementing it. And some major employers have begun to drastically limit their offerings of employee health insurance, raising questions about the future of the industry altogether

Read more: Vermont plans launch of 'universal' health care system: It's a 'right and not a privilege' - Washington Times
Follow us: [MENTION=39892]Was[/MENTION]htimes on Twitter

 

[LoneLaugher]

Canada did it one Province at a time in the beginning. Trial and error. We will get there.

 

[auditor0007]

Canada did it one Province at a time in the beginning. Trial and error. We will get there.

I'm glad they are going to try this out. We need to learn if it will work and how well it will work. While I do support a one payer system, I would prefer some type of hybrid system that allows for supplemental insurance as they have in the UK.

 

[ScienceRocks]

If we go down this street I hope they set up a medical innovation fund of a few billion/year.

We will need it to remain number one in research and devices.

 

[ba1614]

Canada did it one Province at a time in the beginning. Trial and error. We will get there.

And the result is a right to a waiting list, not healthcare.

 

[The Rabbi]

Canada did it one Province at a time in the beginning. Trial and error. We will get there.

And the result is a right to a waiting list, not healthcare.

Let's see: You take a desirable thing, in this case healthcare, and you make it free. As cost declines, demand rises. BUt as cost declines supply also declines. The result is called "shortage", dealt with by rationing.
Yup, basic Econ 101, the subject libs keep failing.

 

[ba1614]

Canada did it one Province at a time in the beginning. Trial and error. We will get there.

And the result is a right to a waiting list, not healthcare.

Let's see: You take a desirable thing, in this case healthcare, and you make it free. As cost declines, demand rises. BUt as cost declines supply also declines. The result is called "shortage", dealt with by rationing.
Yup, basic Econ 101, the subject libs keep failing.

I posted in another thread that my Mother in law in Ontario just last week got an appt for April for her hip replacement surgery, after waiting just shy of 3 months to see the specialist.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Canada did it one Province at a time in the beginning. Trial and error. We will get there.

And the result is a right to a waiting list, not healthcare.

Um........that is not true.

I know that you have heard that many, many times. I know that you believe it to be true. However, if you were to spend an honest hour researching the matter, you would no doubt discover that Canadians are very satisfied with their health care system. You would learn that the talking point about waiting times is largely without substantiation. You would also find out that Candians do not, as is widely believed in your circles, flock to America for medical attention because they cannot get it at home.

I know......this is something that you are not interested in checking out. I understand.

 

[ba1614]

Canada did it one Province at a time in the beginning. Trial and error. We will get there.

And the result is a right to a waiting list, not healthcare.

Um........that is not true.

I know that you have heard that many, many times. I know that you believe it to be true. However, if you were to spend an honest hour researching the matter, you would no doubt discover that Canadians are very satisfied with their health care system. You would learn that the talking point about waiting times is largely without substantiation. You would also find out that Candians do not, as is widely believed in your circles, flock to America for medical attention because they cannot get it at home.

I know......this is something that you are not interested in checking out. I understand.

It absolutely is true, I have family living it.

 

[The Rabbi]

Canada did it one Province at a time in the beginning. Trial and error. We will get there.

And the result is a right to a waiting list, not healthcare.

Um........that is not true.

I know that you have heard that many, many times. I know that you believe it to be true. However, if you were to spend an honest hour researching the matter, you would no doubt discover that Canadians are very satisfied with their health care system. You would learn that the talking point about waiting times is largely without substantiation. You would also find out that Candians do not, as is widely believed in your circles, flock to America for medical attention because they cannot get it at home.

I know......this is something that you are not interested in checking out. I understand.

Oops
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2...eir-health-care-wait-times-and-spending/?_r=0
facts have a conservative bias.

 

[paperview]

And the result is a right to a waiting list, not healthcare.

Um........that is not true.

I know that you have heard that many, many times. I know that you believe it to be true. However, if you were to spend an honest hour researching the matter, you would no doubt discover that Canadians are very satisfied with their health care system. You would learn that the talking point about waiting times is largely without substantiation. You would also find out that Candians do not, as is widely believed in your circles, flock to America for medical attention because they cannot get it at home.

I know......this is something that you are not interested in checking out. I understand.

It absolutely is true, I have family living it.

Wait times in Canada, published:

Surgical Wait Times

 

[Mac1958]

[Wait times in Canada, published:

Surgical Wait Times

Holy crap. They have a freaking website to show the freaking waiting times?!

Well, at least they're up front about it. Not that most people have a ton of choices.

.

 

[paperview]

And the result is a right to a waiting list, not healthcare.

Um........that is not true.

I know that you have heard that many, many times. I know that you believe it to be true. However, if you were to spend an honest hour researching the matter, you would no doubt discover that Canadians are very satisfied with their health care system. You would learn that the talking point about waiting times is largely without substantiation. You would also find out that Candians do not, as is widely believed in your circles, flock to America for medical attention because they cannot get it at home.

I know......this is something that you are not interested in checking out. I understand.

Oops
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2...eir-health-care-wait-times-and-spending/?_r=0
facts have a conservative bias.

Canadians strongly support the health system's public rather than for-profit private basis, and a 2009 poll by Nanos Research found 86.2% of Canadians surveyed supported or strongly supported "public solutions to make our public health care stronger."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada#cite_note-http-11http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada#cite_note-blogs.chicagotribune.com-12

Plus 70% of Canadians rated their system as working either "well" or "very well".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada#cite_note-Gallup.com-13

A 2009 Harris/Decima poll found 82% of Canadians preferred their healthcare system to the one in the United States, more than ten times as many as the 8% stating a preference for a US-style health care system for Canada

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada#cite_note-14while a Strategic Counsel survey in 2008 found 91% of Canadians preferring their healthcare system to that of the U.S.

Health care in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

=======================http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada#cite_note-http-11http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada#cite_note-blogs.chicagotribune.com-12

By an overwhelming margin, Canadians prefer the Canadian health care system to the American one. Overall, 82% said they preferred the Canadian system, fully ten times the number who said the American system is superior (8%)....from a Harris-Decima poll (.pdf), July 2009. .

The vast majority of Canadians, 91 per cent, felt that Canada's health care system was better than the United States...CTV, a Canadian television network, Jun. 29 2008, reporting on a survey, conducted by the Strategic Counsel for CTV and The Globe and Mail.

In November 2004, Canadians voted Tommy Douglas, Canada's 'father of Medicare'") the Greatest Canadian of all time following a nationwide contest."... CBC


People in Canada and Great Britain are significantly more satisfied with availability of affordable healthcare than their American counterparts ...Gallup Poll, March, 2003


Change of Subject: Never mind the anecdotes: Do Canadians like their health-care system?

 

[paperview]

[Wait times in Canada, published:

Surgical Wait Times

Holy crap. They have a freaking website to show the freaking waiting times?!

Well, at least they're up front about it. Not that most people have a ton of choices.

.

Did you bother to click? Generally, immediate needs are met.

That's for elective surgeries.

It's not like the wait line at the Emergency Hospital giving you out a number.

How is the data collected?

 

[ba1614]

Um........that is not true.

I know that you have heard that many, many times. I know that you believe it to be true. However, if you were to spend an honest hour researching the matter, you would no doubt discover that Canadians are very satisfied with their health care system. You would learn that the talking point about waiting times is largely without substantiation. You would also find out that Candians do not, as is widely believed in your circles, flock to America for medical attention because they cannot get it at home.

I know......this is something that you are not interested in checking out. I understand.

It absolutely is true, I have family living it.

Wait times in Canada, published:

Surgical Wait Times

I don't care what you link for BC says, it's got nothing to do with what my family is dealing with in Ontario.

 

[paperview]

It absolutely is true, I have family living it.

Wait times in Canada, published:

Surgical Wait Times

I don't care what you link for BC says, it's got nothing to do with what my family is dealing with in Ontario.

Ontario Wait Times

 

[Mac1958]

[Wait times in Canada, published:

Surgical Wait Times

Holy crap. They have a freaking website to show the freaking waiting times?!

Well, at least they're up front about it. Not that most people have a ton of choices.

.

Did you bother to click? Generally, immediate needs are met.

That's for elective surgeries.

It's not like the wait line at the Emergency Hospital giving you out a number.

How is the data collected?

Yep, sure did click on it.

Example: Pedicatric Services, appendectomy for a kid, want that done right away. It says that 50% receive services within 6.9 to 9.3 weeks. Breast biopsy, want that done right away, 50% receive services within 2.0 to 16.1 weeks. Looked at several others, too.

My guess is that you're going to defend the system no matter what (I can only imagine your affection for and devotion to the federal government bureaucracy), so I won't burn a great deal of effort on this.

The answers to a good health care system are out there, but unfortunately they come from both "sides" of the debate and we continue to be paralyzed in a simplistic, binary way of looking at it. Like everything else.

.

 

[ba1614]

Wait times in Canada, published:

Surgical Wait Times

I don't care what you link for BC says, it's got nothing to do with what my family is dealing with in Ontario.

Ontario Wait Times

Ontario Wait Times

Pretty much what I said above, 186 days is the provincial average, not counting the wait time to see the specialist before making the appt.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[percysunshine]

More power to Vermont. I wish them luck. Unlike the Federal Government, the Constitution gives the States the authority to try these experiments.

 

[Jughead]

Canada did it one Province at a time in the beginning. Trial and error. We will get there.

And the result is a right to a waiting list, not healthcare.

True. Folks without any medical issues will start clogging the clinics and hospitals for a free evaluation simply because it is free. Those who really are sick will need to wait as a result.

Not to mention the higher taxes to pay for universal health coverage.