Vermont plans launch of ‘universal’ health care system: It’s a ‘right and not a privi

[thanatos144]

Canada did it one Province at a time in the beginning. Trial and error. We will get there.

And the result is a right to a waiting list, not healthcare.

You are entitled to your wrong opinion. I suspect you are not telling us the whole story. Refer to #8 above, then tell us what is really going on.

Fakie you finally giving up the lie of being a republican?

 

[ba1614]

Canada did it one Province at a time in the beginning. Trial and error. We will get there.

And the result is a right to a waiting list, not healthcare.

You are entitled to your wrong opinion. I suspect you are not telling us the whole story. Refer to #8 above, then tell us what is really going on.

#18 answers that unsubstantiated bullshit and proves my point for me after I obliterated Paperviews bullshit

 

[LoneLaugher]

And the result is a right to a waiting list, not healthcare.

Um........that is not true.

I know that you have heard that many, many times. I know that you believe it to be true. However, if you were to spend an honest hour researching the matter, you would no doubt discover that Canadians are very satisfied with their health care system. You would learn that the talking point about waiting times is largely without substantiation. You would also find out that Candians do not, as is widely believed in your circles, flock to America for medical attention because they cannot get it at home.

I know......this is something that you are not interested in checking out. I understand.

The nonpartisan Fraser Institute reported that 46,159 Canadians sought
medical treatment outside of Canada in 2011, as wait times increased 104
percent — more than double — compared with statistics from 1993.

Report: Thousands fled Canada for health care in 2011 | The Daily Caller

The Fraser Instiitute in not "non-partisan".

The reasons why the ESTIMATED number of Canadians sought treatment outside of Canada are not established by the study. Period.

How many Americans sought medical treatment outside the US in the same year?

 

[The Rabbi]

And the result is a right to a waiting list, not healthcare.

Let's see: You take a desirable thing, in this case healthcare, and you make it free. As cost declines, demand rises. BUt as cost declines supply also declines. The result is called "shortage", dealt with by rationing.
Yup, basic Econ 101, the subject libs keep failing.

Flawed.

The need for medical attention does not rise with lowering costs. To think that people won't get sick or injured if the cost for treatment is too high is pretty much retarded.

Health care is not a commodity.

Fuck.

Wrong.
People over use medical services when they are "free" all the time. This is well-established. Look at people who suddenly got medical insurance through a new job or whatever. Their usage is always higher.

 

[editec]

I know this is hard for people who bought into ECON 101 and think that the basic premises of economics describes the entire world of economics, but in the case of HC (among other things) the laws of supply and demand work somewhat differently than in the case of say IPods and whatnot.

When was the last time any of you, for example, elected to have a lung removed because it might be cancerous?

And when YOU created the DEMAND for that surgery, of course you SHOPPED AROUND for the best price and service, too, right?



Stop being stupid people...HC is NOT like most other things we need to live.

 

[Katzndogz]

Vermont is a state. It is free to do for its citizens whatever it feels best.

 

[JakeStarkey]

And the result is a right to a waiting list, not healthcare.

You are entitled to your wrong opinion. I suspect you are not telling us the whole story. Refer to #8 above, then tell us what is really going on.

#18 answers that unsubstantiated bullshit and proves my point for me after I obliterated Paperviews bullshit

#18 did neither but did underline your narcissism, friend.

Now give us some objective evidence.

 

[paperview]

Let's see: You take a desirable thing, in this case healthcare, and you make it free. As cost declines, demand rises. BUt as cost declines supply also declines. The result is called "shortage", dealt with by rationing.
Yup, basic Econ 101, the subject libs keep failing.

Flawed.

The need for medical attention does not rise with lowering costs. To think that people won't get sick or injured if the cost for treatment is too high is pretty much retarded.

Health care is not a commodity.

Fuck.

Wrong.
People over use medical services when they are "free" all the time. This is well-established. Look at people who suddenly got medical insurance through a new job or whatever. Their usage is always higher.

How about just affordable health insurance?

Because of difficulties in obtaining health insurance that wasn't ridiculously high, (something like 1800.00 a month) my self-employed older brother went without the last few years. He'd never been without it his whole life.

No check ups / doctor visits the last few years, generally healthy, a one-time sciatica problem years ago put him in the pre-existing condition category. Well, he thought he was generally healthy anyway.

He put off getting tests for a bowel irritation that had been bugging him lately.

Last week he was rushed to the hospital.

Today I learn he has 3-6 months to live.

 

[healthmyths]

YEA GO for it Vermont! It is a STATE's RIGHT! And if they can make it work GREAT!
That's why they call the states "
Laboratories of democracy is a phrase popularized by U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis in New State Ice Co. v. Liebmann"
This concept explains how within the federal framework, there exists a system of filtration where state and local governments act as “laboratories,” where law is created and enacted from the lowest level of the democratic system, up to the top level.
Laboratories of democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[healthmyths]

Flawed.

The need for medical attention does not rise with lowering costs. To think that people won't get sick or injured if the cost for treatment is too high is pretty much retarded.

Health care is not a commodity.

Fuck.

Wrong.
People over use medical services when they are "free" all the time. This is well-established. Look at people who suddenly got medical insurance through a new job or whatever. Their usage is always higher.

How about just affordable health insurance?

Because of difficulties in obtaining health insurance that wasn't ridiculously high, (something like 1800.00 a month) my self-employed older brother went without the last few years. He'd never been without it his whole life.

No check ups / doctor visits the last few years, generally healthy, a one-time sciatica problem years ago put him in the pre-existing condition category. Well, he thought he was generally healthy anyway.

He put off getting tests for a bowel irritation that had been bugging him lately.

Last week he was rushed to the hospital.

Today I learn he has 3-6 months to live.

SAD SAD STORY!!! But ANECDOTAL! I.e. Doesn't happen all the time.. exceptions!
Who you should be pissed at are lawyers!!!
ARE YOU aware they according to 90% of doctors Lawyers and fear of lawsuits are the REASON $850 billion a year is spent WASTEFULLY, in duplicate tests, etc.??
AND who pays those claims? Insurance companies!
And where do they get the money to pay these stupid wasteful claims which BY LAW they have to pay???
RAISING premiums... (sometimes $1,800/month in your brother's case!
Why is it so hard to comprehend that IF $850 billion a year was reduce to say $400 billion... DO YOU know what your state' insurance regulators would require of
the companies that sell health insurance in your state to do??? LOWER the premiums!
Just maybe enough to make health care for your brother not $1,800 a month!

SEE the biggest problem with people like you attacking is lack of knowledge on how insurance works!
Lawyers make over $270 billion a year!
If this $850 billion was halfed your brother would have been covered!

 

[The Rabbi]

Flawed.

The need for medical attention does not rise with lowering costs. To think that people won't get sick or injured if the cost for treatment is too high is pretty much retarded.

Health care is not a commodity.

Fuck.

Wrong.
People over use medical services when they are "free" all the time. This is well-established. Look at people who suddenly got medical insurance through a new job or whatever. Their usage is always higher.

How about just affordable health insurance?

Because of difficulties in obtaining health insurance that wasn't ridiculously high, (something like 1800.00 a month) my self-employed older brother went without the last few years. He'd never been without it his whole life.

No check ups / doctor visits the last few years, generally healthy, a one-time sciatica problem years ago put him in the pre-existing condition category. Well, he thought he was generally healthy anyway.

He put off getting tests for a bowel irritation that had been bugging him lately.

Last week he was rushed to the hospital.

Today I learn he has 3-6 months to live.

What is "affordable" health insurance?
Lots of missing info. Like how old your brother is. How long he had symptoms. Etc.
Guessing he has colon cancer with mets to the liver. A colonoscopy is about $2k or so. I had one last year after I turned 50. I had to pay most of it myself. It was well worth it.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Let's see: You take a desirable thing, in this case healthcare, and you make it free. As cost declines, demand rises. BUt as cost declines supply also declines. The result is called "shortage", dealt with by rationing.
Yup, basic Econ 101, the subject libs keep failing.

Flawed.

The need for medical attention does not rise with lowering costs. To think that people won't get sick or injured if the cost for treatment is too high is pretty much retarded.

Health care is not a commodity.

Fuck.

Wrong.
People over use medical services when they are "free" all the time. This is well-established. Look at people who suddenly got medical insurance through a new job or whatever. Their usage is always higher.

Do people get cancer and heart disease more often when they have access to helth insurance/care? You are way off base. Your take on this is retarded.

 

[The Rabbi]

Flawed.

The need for medical attention does not rise with lowering costs. To think that people won't get sick or injured if the cost for treatment is too high is pretty much retarded.

Health care is not a commodity.

Fuck.

Wrong.
People over use medical services when they are "free" all the time. This is well-established. Look at people who suddenly got medical insurance through a new job or whatever. Their usage is always higher.

Do people get cancer and heart disease more often when they have access to helth insurance/care? You are way off base. Your take on this is retarded.

If you think most office visits are spent detecting cancer and heart disease you have no clue. Of course you have no clue anyway, but this just confirms it.
90% of office visits are for nothing.

 

[JakeStarkey]

YEA GO for it Vermont! It is a STATE's RIGHT! And if they can make it work GREAT!
That's why they call the states "
Laboratories of democracy is a phrase popularized by U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis in New State Ice Co. v. Liebmann"
This concept explains how within the federal framework, there exists a system of filtration where state and local governments act as “laboratories,” where law is created and enacted from the lowest level of the democratic system, up to the top level.
Laboratories of democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And that is where our GOP failed in the 1990s and early 2000s. We knows it works in Massachusetts, and we have no doubt that it will work in VT.

The far right fringe's fight is fail, period.

 

[ba1614]

You are entitled to your wrong opinion. I suspect you are not telling us the whole story. Refer to #8 above, then tell us what is really going on.

#18 answers that unsubstantiated bullshit and proves my point for me after I obliterated Paperviews bullshit

#18 did neither but did underline your narcissism, friend.

Now give us some objective evidence.

What more do you want than a link to their government site that supports my claim of a six month wait for hip replacement surgery?

I guess folks reading the thread can decide for themselves if my claim is wrong or not. The links are there

 

[JakeStarkey]

#18 answers that unsubstantiated bullshit and proves my point for me after I obliterated Paperviews bullshit

#18 did neither but did underline your narcissism, friend.

Now give us some objective evidence.

What more do you want than a link to their government site that supports my claim of a six month wait for hip replacement surgery?

I guess folks reading the thread can decide for themselves if my claim is wrong or not. The links are there

The link means nothing without nuance and context. You are fail.

 

[ba1614]

#18 did neither but did underline your narcissism, friend.

Now give us some objective evidence.

What more do you want than a link to their government site that supports my claim of a six month wait for hip replacement surgery?

I guess folks reading the thread can decide for themselves if my claim is wrong or not. The links are there

The link means nothing without nuance and context. You are fail.

The link means nothing because you don't want it to. Like I said, the readers can decide for themselves

 

[LoneLaugher]

Wrong.
People over use medical services when they are "free" all the time. This is well-established. Look at people who suddenly got medical insurance through a new job or whatever. Their usage is always higher.

Do people get cancer and heart disease more often when they have access to helth insurance/care? You are way off base. Your take on this is retarded.

If you think most office visits are spent detecting cancer and heart disease you have no clue. Of course you have no clue anyway, but this just confirms it.
90% of office visits are for nothing.

Don't worry. None of your pals will come to this thread and tell you how stupid you seem. They won't want to hurt your feelings.

 

[The Rabbi]

Do people get cancer and heart disease more often when they have access to helth insurance/care? You are way off base. Your take on this is retarded.

If you think most office visits are spent detecting cancer and heart disease you have no clue. Of course you have no clue anyway, but this just confirms it.
90% of office visits are for nothing.

Don't worry. None of your pals will come to this thread and tell you how stupid you seem. They won't want to hurt your feelings.

Deflection. Not a river in Egypt either.

 

[healthmyths]

YEA GO for it Vermont! It is a STATE's RIGHT! And if they can make it work GREAT!
That's why they call the states "
Laboratories of democracy is a phrase popularized by U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis in New State Ice Co. v. Liebmann"
This concept explains how within the federal framework, there exists a system of filtration where state and local governments act as “laboratories,” where law is created and enacted from the lowest level of the democratic system, up to the top level.
Laboratories of democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And that is where our GOP failed in the 1990s and early 2000s. We knows it works in Massachusetts, and we have no doubt that it will work in VT.

The far right fringe's fight is fail, period.

I live in Florida among a bunch of us old farts... and frankly if Florida wanted what MA/VT did I move!
See that's fine for people that live in those states. They make the choices and that's fine.
BUT what works in New England may not work in Texas or Florida.
So for example in some parts of texas there are less the one person per square mile.
Why is there a speed limit in that part of the country?