We do NOT Live in a Meritocracy

[Erand7899]

Yep, you strike me to be the gullible type that would believe you can borrow your way to prosperity. If you are aware of a trap and you step in it anyways, what does that say about you? You just need to quit making excuses and go DO something. OH! and grow up.

This isn't about you or me. This is the fact that the system is rigged to produce a dispensable workforce to carry out the aspirations of profiteers. I've never once borrow money (except student loans) and vowed off credit cards at 14. You keep thinking in the narrow terms of those on this message board. What's really going on is outside the people participating in this message board. That society operates on principles of inheritance and who you know and then we are told we live in a society based on merit. The left hand doesn't know what the right is doing. Although hard work transports a few people to success, most successful people get that way because of where they were born and who they know. This flies in the face of our ideals of hard work and merit.

The only thing rigged is your thought processes. It is your responsibility, and no one elses responsibility, to ensure your continued viability in the work force. There is no system designed to make you, or anyone else, a good life, a good job, or wealth. You have to go out and get it yourself.

Quit making excuses for failure, since that only generates more failure. There is no system stopping you from obtaining more education or obtaining more skills. Flip burgers in the daytime, and work on skills and education at night. Or, vise versa. Many successful people have done just that.

I graduated from high school in 1959, with no skills, no money, and in a small town with few opportunities for a good life. I visited the Navy recruiter, and I haven't been broke since. I have returned to that small town many times, to find that few of my classmates ever got anywhere. I wasn't special, nor did I graduate anywhere near the top of the class. The only difference was that I took the bull by the horns and went looking for a life, most of the others didn't.

 

[Bombur]

God, if I were a sissy piece of shit like you I think I'd just soot myself. Poor little victim, just can't make it out there in the big bad world all by your little ole self. Are you so fucking lazy you can't go out and get the skills to make yourself marketable? My working life spanned more than 50 years and I never got a job because of some one I knew. Quit whining, get off your ass a do what you need to get a freaking job.

50 years of work....

yeah things have changed a lil bit in those 50 years.

Like what has changed? Perhaps victimhood has had a broad upswing, but everything else is pretty much the same. Tens of thousands of good paying jobs go begging every day for the simple reason that applicants are not qualified to fill them. Companies don't fill these jobs with friends or relatives, they need people with real skills. What is stopping any of you from obtaining those skills?

Education expectations have increased and long term wage expectations have decreased. The number of manufacturing jobs have decreased drastically.
The number of women in the workforce has increased significantly.
The capacity of corporations to leverage foreign labor has increased.
The trade imbalance has exploded.
Wages have stagnated.
Cities that were once a great source of opportunity have dried up.

 

[Bombur]

Yep, you strike me to be the gullible type that would believe you can borrow your way to prosperity. If you are aware of a trap and you step in it anyways, what does that say about you? You just need to quit making excuses and go DO something. OH! and grow up.

This isn't about you or me. This is the fact that the system is rigged to produce a dispensable workforce to carry out the aspirations of profiteers. I've never once borrow money (except student loans) and vowed off credit cards at 14. You keep thinking in the narrow terms of those on this message board. What's really going on is outside the people participating in this message board. That society operates on principles of inheritance and who you know and then we are told we live in a society based on merit. The left hand doesn't know what the right is doing. Although hard work transports a few people to success, most successful people get that way because of where they were born and who they know. This flies in the face of our ideals of hard work and merit.

The only thing rigged is your thought processes. It is your responsibility, and no one elses responsibility, to ensure your continued viability in the work force. There is no system designed to make you, or anyone else, a good life, a good job, or wealth. You have to go out and get it yourself.

Quit making excuses for failure, since that only generates more failure. There is no system stopping you from obtaining more education or obtaining more skills. Flip burgers in the daytime, and work on skills and education at night. Or, vise versa. Many successful people have done just that.

I graduated from high school in 1959, with no skills, no money, and in a small town with few opportunities for a good life. I visited the Navy recruiter, and I haven't been broke since. I have returned to that small town many times, to find that few of my classmates ever got anywhere. I wasn't special, nor did I graduate anywhere near the top of the class. The only difference was that I took the bull by the horns and went looking for a life, most of the others didn't.

The military is great in this regard.

 

[Erand7899]

50 years of work....

yeah things have changed a lil bit in those 50 years.

Like what has changed? Perhaps victimhood has had a broad upswing, but everything else is pretty much the same. Tens of thousands of good paying jobs go begging every day for the simple reason that applicants are not qualified to fill them. Companies don't fill these jobs with friends or relatives, they need people with real skills. What is stopping any of you from obtaining those skills?

Education expectations have increased and long term wage expectations have decreased. The number of manufacturing jobs have decreased drastically.
The number of women in the workforce has increased significantly.
The capacity of corporations to leverage foreign labor has increased.
The trade imbalance has exploded.
Wages have stagnated.
Cities that were once a great source of opportunity have dried up.

You have all your excuses down pat. Poor you!

 

[Erand7899]

This isn't about you or me. This is the fact that the system is rigged to produce a dispensable workforce to carry out the aspirations of profiteers. I've never once borrow money (except student loans) and vowed off credit cards at 14. You keep thinking in the narrow terms of those on this message board. What's really going on is outside the people participating in this message board. That society operates on principles of inheritance and who you know and then we are told we live in a society based on merit. The left hand doesn't know what the right is doing. Although hard work transports a few people to success, most successful people get that way because of where they were born and who they know. This flies in the face of our ideals of hard work and merit.

The only thing rigged is your thought processes. It is your responsibility, and no one elses responsibility, to ensure your continued viability in the work force. There is no system designed to make you, or anyone else, a good life, a good job, or wealth. You have to go out and get it yourself.

Quit making excuses for failure, since that only generates more failure. There is no system stopping you from obtaining more education or obtaining more skills. Flip burgers in the daytime, and work on skills and education at night. Or, vise versa. Many successful people have done just that.

I graduated from high school in 1959, with no skills, no money, and in a small town with few opportunities for a good life. I visited the Navy recruiter, and I haven't been broke since. I have returned to that small town many times, to find that few of my classmates ever got anywhere. I wasn't special, nor did I graduate anywhere near the top of the class. The only difference was that I took the bull by the horns and went looking for a life, most of the others didn't.

The military is great in this regard.

The military is always looking for a few good people. They house you, they feed you, and they teach you skills. Then, you are on your own to work toward a good life.

 

[Bombur]

Like what has changed? Perhaps victimhood has had a broad upswing, but everything else is pretty much the same. Tens of thousands of good paying jobs go begging every day for the simple reason that applicants are not qualified to fill them. Companies don't fill these jobs with friends or relatives, they need people with real skills. What is stopping any of you from obtaining those skills?

Education expectations have increased and long term wage expectations have decreased. The number of manufacturing jobs have decreased drastically.
The number of women in the workforce has increased significantly.
The capacity of corporations to leverage foreign labor has increased.
The trade imbalance has exploded.
Wages have stagnated.
Cities that were once a great source of opportunity have dried up.

You have all your excuses down pat. Poor you!

I have a good career. The issue is not about me.

The issue is about the nation. I don't find your claim about "victimhood" accurate when people are getting more education than 50 years ago and working more hours too.

The younger generations are inheriting trade deficits and debt from the older generations. You may want to pay attention.

 

[tinydancer]

You know at first I was going to disagree with the OP. And then I thought about President Obama.

Quote: Originally Posted by gnarlylove View Post

This isn't about you or me.

This is the fact that the system is rigged to produce a dispensable workforce to carry out the aspirations of profiteers. I've never once borrow money (except student loans) and vowed off credit cards at 14.

You keep thinking in the narrow terms of those on this message board. What's really going on is outside the people participating in this message board. That society operates on principles of inheritance and who you know and then we are told we live in a society based on merit.

The left hand doesn't know what the right is doing. Although hard work transports a few people to success, most successful people get that way because of where they were born and who they know.

This flies in the face of our ideals of hard work and merit.

Yuppers. I'm not sure if I could disagree with that statement when it comes to Obama.

 

[gnarlylove]

The only thing rigged is your thought processes.

When you start out saying something irrelevant and personal, we know you aren't here for genuine debate.

It is your responsibility, and no one elses responsibility, to ensure your continued viability in the work force.

No body is disputing the fact that individuals must want to do well for themselves in order to do well.

What we are disputing is the fact that society is full of "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours."

Tens of thousands of good paying jobs go begging every day for the simple reason that applicants are not qualified to fill them. Companies don't fill these jobs with friends or relatives, they need people with real skills. What is stopping any of you from obtaining those skills?

When a local commercial in my area boasts it's employees are mostly relatives, making the company appear super-familial, it discredits your assertion. They never once mentioned the hiring of the most skilled workers, they stuck to the gushy emotions of "We are a family and we hire relatives, so if you know someone, put in an application."

Of course we agree there are thousands upon thousands of jobs that hire people based on skills only. But there are millions and millions of jobs that prefer employees that know other employees. Of course having skills is likely a consideration to the employer but one is often completely trained and that training ensures their skills are up to date.

What do you make of attempts by employers in the last decade to require or prefer you to be currently employed or recently laid-off. Why? This isn't a good policy to attract the most skilled workers. Just because you have a job doesn't mean you are the most skilled person for that position. It's a fallacy to think so. That's why most states have banned this practice. Employers tend to prefer company loyalty to maximization of skills because skills are trainable, loyalty is not.

I've had over 20 jobs in the last decade and a minority of those were gained because of my skills and excellent interviews (i.e. merit). But an overwhelming majority of my applications (100s over the years) have received no call backs when I didn't know a current employee. Most of those applications were for min. wage service jobs like flipping burgers or customer service which I have plenty of experience in. On the flip side, over 80% of the time I've received call backs when I've put down I know someone. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM


The economy is not black and white. We can show examples for each argument, merit and inheritance. But the general trends in America are leaning towards inheritance/loyalty over merit. If you deny this you just are closing your eyes--a useful tactic to think you won the argument but entirely irrelevant given the current reality of the American workforce.

 

[hazlnut]

You will see this more and more. Where you work what you can buy and for how much will depend on who you know. As the ability of employers to decide for themselves who to hire is taken from them, they won't advertise. They will depend on the word of someone else, someone already with a degree of trust.

I bet you can find someone making this same complaint every single decade.

Usually an under-educated women.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

We do NOT Live in a Meritocracy

Which makes sense given the fact there is no such thing.

 

[gnarlylove]

I agree Clayton. Too bad its a fundamental assumption to politicians and propaganda alike to excuse our extreme disparity. Oh disparity will necessarily always exist, but it's never been worse than today.

 

[hazlnut]

We like to think the private sector, indeed America itself is based on merit and hard work. I've read this a thousand times on USMB but upon any scrutiny, one can see success and affluence centers around inheritance and proper networking or knowing the right people. This is diametrically opposed to a genuine meritocratic system, which is based on one's ability and skills, not who you know or where you were born.

A local commercial for a nearby hospital was proud to announce their general staff consisted of mostly relatives and family members. So if you want to work there fuck being the best, just know the right people and the job is yours!

Sounds all too familiar. I almost only receive call backs for jobs where I know a current employee. This has happened too many times to be simple coincidence. It has nothing to do with merit since the positions I've applied for I have over 3 years of paid experience with a robust resume.

The private sector ideals are based in merit; however, we know how things on paper are not how they operate in the real world. So wake up and smell the corruption. Of course not all businesses operate this way but this is not my point.

What I am saying is that the government and major businesses walk hand in hand to maintain their elite status, wealth and power in spite of their incessant claims of our proud meritocracy. No politician would deny we strive to be the most meritocratic system on earth but this is pure rhetoric. We do not live in a genuine meritocratic system. Yet we demand those without opportunities, without quality education and no valuable network to earn their way or die (or at least suffer). When will we learn? Our problems are much deeper than this policy or that president or some "parasite class"....

Last time I checked, we're a republic.

 

[OKTexas]

I agree Clayton. Too bad its a fundamental assumption to politicians and propaganda alike to excuse our extreme disparity. Oh disparity will necessarily always exist, but it's never been worse than today.

Cry me a fucking river. Boo hoo hoo

 

[SwimExpert]

We do NOT Live in a Meritocracy

Which makes sense given the fact there is no such thing.

Don't watch the NFL much, do you?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Education expectations have increased and long term wage expectations have decreased. The number of manufacturing jobs have decreased drastically.
The number of women in the workforce has increased significantly.
The capacity of corporations to leverage foreign labor has increased.
The trade imbalance has exploded.
Wages have stagnated.
Cities that were once a great source of opportunity have dried up.

You have all your excuses down pat. Poor you!

I have a good career. The issue is not about me.

The issue is about the nation. I don't find your claim about "victimhood" accurate when people are getting more education than 50 years ago and working more hours too.

The younger generations are inheriting trade deficits and debt from the older generations. You may want to pay attention.

Of course this is about you. This is all about you congratulating yourself on what a fine, compassionate fellow you are for "understanding" the plight of all those poor bastards out there and giving the losers a break.

Except that what you're offering isn't compassion or understanding; it's pity, which helps no one and is actually harmful.

 

[Bombur]

You have all your excuses down pat. Poor you!

I have a good career. The issue is not about me.

The issue is about the nation. I don't find your claim about "victimhood" accurate when people are getting more education than 50 years ago and working more hours too.

The younger generations are inheriting trade deficits and debt from the older generations. You may want to pay attention.

Of course this is about you. This is all about you congratulating yourself on what a fine, compassionate fellow you are for "understanding" the plight of all those poor bastards out there and giving the losers a break.

Except that what you're offering isn't compassion or understanding; it's pity, which helps no one and is actually harmful.

Do you ever say anything worth reading?

 

[Cecilie1200]

I have a good career. The issue is not about me.

The issue is about the nation. I don't find your claim about "victimhood" accurate when people are getting more education than 50 years ago and working more hours too.

The younger generations are inheriting trade deficits and debt from the older generations. You may want to pay attention.

Of course this is about you. This is all about you congratulating yourself on what a fine, compassionate fellow you are for "understanding" the plight of all those poor bastards out there and giving the losers a break.

Except that what you're offering isn't compassion or understanding; it's pity, which helps no one and is actually harmful.

Do you ever say anything worth reading?

Every single time I post. The fact that you don't like hearing what I have to say is irrelevant to that fact.

 

[gnarlylove]

Cecil likes to make everything personal. Personal attacks. Personal problems. Personal complaints.

Cecil has not realized that when someone speaks, they can refer beyond their own situation. That's because Cecil cannot think out side Cecils head. In Cecils world, it's all about Cecil. So why would Cecil think it's any different for anyone else?

Turns out Cecil is a typical by-product of mass media and mass culture. Those who have little to no understanding that strange human beings (i.e. other people) have concerns beyond themselves. That people can care and have altruism. But that's going too far since Cecil will be raging upset and call us names. This is the only way Cecil knows how to interact and yet somehow this is always worth reading.

You are not the only person in this world Cecil, but we wouldn't gather that from your posts. We know that those like Cecil are Republicans/some brand of staunch Conservative/Tea Party.

What we know about Republicans/Conservatives/Tea Partiers is that they rank very low on the openness to experience scale. This is a genuine psychological scale that ranks people based on how willing they are to undertake new and strange experiences. Cecil cannot stand change. Cecil cannot stand anything new (except a new smart phone or the latest gadget). Liberals ranks much higher than Conservatives on this openness to experience scale because they are willing to try new things, try new ideas, entertain challenging concepts etc.

So no wonder Cecil is extremely upset and feels like their views are always important. Don't believe me? Look it up:

Openness to experience - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.psych.nyu.edu/jost/Carney,%20Jost,%20&%20Gosling%20(2008)%20The%20secret%20lives%20of%20liberals%20.pdf
Are conservatives less creative than liberals? | Psychology Today

 

[Contumacious]

We like to think the private sector, indeed America itself is based on merit and hard work. I've read this a thousand times on USMB but upon any scrutiny, one can see success and affluence centers around inheritance and proper networking or knowing the right people. This is diametrically opposed to a genuine meritocratic system, which is based on one's ability and skills, not who you know or where you were born.

..

The US is no longer a Constitutional Republic - it has deteriorated into what Ayn Rand is to call "An Aristocracy of Pull".

.

 

[Bombur]

Of course this is about you. This is all about you congratulating yourself on what a fine, compassionate fellow you are for "understanding" the plight of all those poor bastards out there and giving the losers a break.

Except that what you're offering isn't compassion or understanding; it's pity, which helps no one and is actually harmful.

Do you ever say anything worth reading?

Every single time I post. The fact that you don't like hearing what I have to say is irrelevant to that fact.

/snore