West Bank: IDF checking claims that settlers used live ammo

[Lipush]

If we're off topc, which obviously we are, do you mind if I ask a question, BIK?

Have your heard about the teen-bride in the Omer case? if you didn't, I'll share, and if you did, what do you think should be done with her? should she be punished or released?

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Tell me what it is, I haven't heard of it.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Six cars vandalized in the Kursa village. Suspected by Jewish extremists.

 

[Lipush]

Ok then. Few months ago the police of Omer was called to a park in the town after a call of a murder. in the scene they found a young girl (I believe 16-17), with a knide, bleeding, and leaning over the body of a man.

Apperently, the man was the husband of the young girl, Bedoiuns from Tel-Sheva(South Israel). she admitted of killing her husband because she was forced into marrying him. This was not her first marriage, her father 'matchmaked' her previously to another bedoiun, it was not clear what exacltly happened to him, the idea was that the first husband disappeared. she was married to this second man for two days, she said to her father she didn't wish to get married, after the marriage took place, she told her father that this guy forced her into sexual relationship even though she didn't want him to touch her on her wedding night, and she knew her father turned a "blind eye" for her physical emotional torment, so she decided to kill her husband.

She said she wishes to take him outside, for a walk, and when coming home she promised to complete her "marriage duties". when arriving at the park she said she has a change of heart, and instead she wishes to sleep with him in that park, and asked him to lie down and be "submissive". He did that, and that were she stabbed him in the heart, killing him instantly.

to the cops she says life in prison are better than the life she could have had with the man, who's needless to say, much older.

She is now facing charges in which she's expected to have no less than 20 years in prison. The Israeli people, although, feel sympathy for the girl, calling the justice authorities to release her and have her treated for trauma. The issue is complicated because she killer her husband, may have killed the previous one, too. She, on paper, should be punished in jail. But her first marriage was when she was barely 15. she was obviously abused by husband (both) and parents, she was only looking for a way out and no one listened to her and tried to save her.

A very sad story. She was wrong, of course, but she's just a kid.

I really feel sorry for her.

 

[sealadaigh]

The only ones using the "chosen ideology" crap are haters and ignorant.

Jews were CHOSEN to recieve the Torah from HaShem. Not "chosen" as in "BETTER" than anyone.

It's about time you people learned the difference. Your ignorance is tiring, honestly!

i think your first sentence contradicts your second.

people know and understand the difference but...

if you are chosen by an omnipotent, all powerful, only god to be his representative on earth and to be the only ones capable of passing his sacred and omnipotent word to the world and if you claim that this omnipotent god is holding you to higher standards than the rest of us and if you couple all that with talmudic teachings, which i don't see how you can avoid, than i think there is a definite implication of "better".

i really don't think gentiles jumped on this without any provocation at all. i have heard it uttered by ewish people in casual conversation having nothing at all to do with the torah.

maybe it is time for you people to understand our reaction to not being god's chosen.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

I don't believe in forced marriages. She probably will be punished because she could have seeker other ways to escape her marriage. But she probably wasn't aware of other options and feared what her family would do. I don't think she should get 20 years. Is the information verified that she was forced? Did the parents admit to it? And that's bedioun mentality, they don't even have reasons for what they do. They need more education. It depends on other options she could have sought. Do you know her personally?

 

[sealadaigh]

Yanno - someone who wanted to could start a language learning thread here..... for both Arabic and Hebrew. It couldn't hurt! : ))

ní thuigim tu?

 

[sealadaigh]

The only ones using the "chosen ideology" crap are haters and ignorant.

Jews were CHOSEN to recieve the Torah from HaShem. Not "chosen" as in "BETTER" than anyone.

It's about time you people learned the difference. Your ignorance is tiring, honestly!

Tell the Israelis to stop misinterpreting it then.

No, we get it right. Those who get it wrong suffer from personal maglomania which has nothing to do with being Jewish.

so you want us to acknowledge that you were chosen by an all powerful god to spread your interpretation of his word among all the people of the earth and all the other people on the earth were chosen for a different, unspeciied reason.

how exactly do you think that that does not equate into thinking you are "not better."

one of the results of such talk is that people begin to not like jews.

 

[Lipush]

I don't believe in forced marriages. She probably will be punished because she could have seeker other ways to escape her marriage. But she probably wasn't aware of other options and feared what her family would do. I don't think she should get 20 years. Is the information verified that she was forced? Did the parents admit to it? And that's bedioun mentality, they don't even have reasons for what they do. They need more education. It depends on other options she could have sought. Do you know her personally?

Bedoiun girls, unless having good education, will probably having difficulties in asking for help. a good chance there is that her Hebrew isn't good, and she could not explain herself. a 15 year old standing infront of a cop or a judge explaining she's forced to marry and live and have sex with someone. If I didn't speak the language that well, and was a young girl who felt my family is not supportive and might even shut me up, i don't think i would have felt secure enough to ask for help, or even know how to do so.

Yes, she was indeed forces, he father said he gave her away even though she didn't want, he never denied that fact.

I do not know her personally, I just feel sad that girls, no matter who they are (In that case Arab, but there are also orthodox Jewish girls forced to marry very young), that have to go through this. Marriage is suppost to happen when you wish to share a life with someone you trust and love, not like that. I mean poor thing.

She will probably will face 20 years+, because the Israeli law is very strict when it comes to murder. Years ago, a wife murdered her husband because she could not take his domestic abuse, which took place more than 15 years! and was charged. The idea is "you don't have permission to kill even with abuse, you should to until the impossible to prevent from having blood on your hands". And it makes sense, of course.

Penal code section, number 300A describes murder, and says that he or she who does kill (onprovoked, under the intention to take lives) will be sent to preson for "life sentence", undeneath it says "Will expect this punishment and this punishment only".

Unlike "killing" (20 years most), the judge, when comming to the conclusion it was MURDER, and not "killing", has no ability to consider the punishment. If it was murder, the killer should be sent to life, there is no ability to "escape" or trying to have "soft hands" on the defendant. the Judge could feel for her and wish for her the best and be merciful, but if the same judge will get to the conclusion she MURDERED, he will have no choice but to lock her up.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

I'm not sure how the Israeli court will deal with it. For me personally, I would use common sense and religious law. I don't think she should have killed the man. But I would do the same thing Prophets would do and arrange the situation. Pray for the dead. Straighten up the family and do what's fair. I don't think secular law takes all the context in it. Some of the laws are great and make sense but there is corruption within the law and not all of it is the right way.

 

[Lipush]

The only ones using the "chosen ideology" crap are haters and ignorant.

Jews were CHOSEN to recieve the Torah from HaShem. Not "chosen" as in "BETTER" than anyone.

It's about time you people learned the difference. Your ignorance is tiring, honestly!

i think your first sentence contradicts your second.

people know and understand the difference but...

if you are chosen by an omnipotent, all powerful, only god to be his representative on earth and to be the only ones capable of passing his sacred and omnipotent word to the world and if you claim that this omnipotent god is holding you to higher standards than the rest of us and if you couple all that with talmudic teachings, which i don't see how you can avoid, than i think there is a definite implication of "better".

i really don't think gentiles jumped on this without any provocation at all. i have heard it uttered by ewish people in casual conversation having nothing at all to do with the torah.

maybe it is time for you people to understand our reaction to not being god's chosen.

<<<"if you are chosen by an omnipotent, all powerful, only god to be his representative on earth and to be the only ones capable of passing his sacred and omnipotent word to the world and if you claim that this omnipotent god is holding you to higher standards than the rest of us and if you couple all that with talmudic teachings, which i don't see how you can avoid, than i think there is a definite implication of "better".>>>

See, but that's just it. It's totally the other way around.

If we were chosen to recieve the Torah from HaShem, he expect us to have higher standarts as you say...

Which means that while being a Gentile is an "easy task" (so to speak), being a Jew means you've put to alot of tests, and much more temped to fail.

While for a gentile the number of commandments is 7, the number of commandments for a Jew is 613.

If God's to hold us for higher standard, one can ask why we are being put through so much? if we were "better" WE would have been given the "easy pass" while the Gentile would have been the one to suffer the weight of so much commandments.

The commandments, while being blessed, are also a wight and a test we must follow to "complete" ourselves, because the Jew will forever look for that missing piece, which the Gentile doesn't required to look for.

It's all a matter of prespective.

The only thing that Jews were REALLY CHOSEN for do DO, is Tikkun Olam. Every person can do Tikkun Olam, but it's the duty of the Jew to do it, or TRY doing it, better than any other person. Because we have sinned, we are required to do Tikkunim more than the Gentiles.

 

[Lipush]

I'm not sure how the Israeli court will deal with it. For me personally, I would use common sense and religious law. I don't think she should have killed the man. But I would do the same thing Prophets would do and arrange the situation. Pray for the dead. Straighten up the family and do what's fair. I don't think secular law takes all the context in it. Some of the laws are great and make sense but there is corruption within the law and not all of it is the right way.

In the Israeli justice system, religion is the last source you look in for guidence, something you use only when the law makers left this deciosion in the air.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

I'm not sure how the Israeli court will deal with it. For me personally, I would use common sense and religious law. I don't think she should have killed the man. But I would do the same thing Prophets would do and arrange the situation. Pray for the dead. Straighten up the family and do what's fair. I don't think secular law takes all the context in it. Some of the laws are great and make sense but there is corruption within the law and not all of it is the right way.

In the Israeli justice system, religion is the last source you look in for guidence, something you use only when the law makers left this deciosion in the air.

I don't like that.

 

[toastman]

Are you saying you need to learn more talking in Arabic?

And generally yes, Islamic jihad and Hamas militants know Hebrew the most though.

This goes for Gaza. I'm sure the Palestinians in the West Bank all know a good amount.

I don't need to learn Arabic, I just want to. I love the way it sounds and I also am just generally interested in languages. When I was in university , I had the choice to take Spanish or Arabic for my elective class, but I chose Spanish.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

The only ones using the "chosen ideology" crap are haters and ignorant.

Jews were CHOSEN to recieve the Torah from HaShem. Not "chosen" as in "BETTER" than anyone.

It's about time you people learned the difference. Your ignorance is tiring, honestly!

i think your first sentence contradicts your second.

people know and understand the difference but...

if you are chosen by an omnipotent, all powerful, only god to be his representative on earth and to be the only ones capable of passing his sacred and omnipotent word to the world and if you claim that this omnipotent god is holding you to higher standards than the rest of us and if you couple all that with talmudic teachings, which i don't see how you can avoid, than i think there is a definite implication of "better".

i really don't think gentiles jumped on this without any provocation at all. i have heard it uttered by ewish people in casual conversation having nothing at all to do with the torah.

maybe it is time for you people to understand our reaction to not being god's chosen.

<<<"if you are chosen by an omnipotent, all powerful, only god to be his representative on earth and to be the only ones capable of passing his sacred and omnipotent word to the world and if you claim that this omnipotent god is holding you to higher standards than the rest of us and if you couple all that with talmudic teachings, which i don't see how you can avoid, than i think there is a definite implication of "better".>>>

See, but that's just it. It's totally the other way around.

If we were chosen to recieve the Torah from HaShem, he expect us to have higher standarts as you say...

Which means that while being a Gentile is an "easy task" (so to speak), being a Jew means you've put to alot of tests, and much more temped to fail.

While for a gentile the number of commandments is 7, the number of commandments for a Jew is 613.

If God's to hold us for higher standard, one can ask why we are being put through so much? if we were "better" WE would have been given the "easy pass" while the Gentile would have been the one to suffer the weight of so much commandments.

The commandments, while being blessed, are also a wight and a test we must follow to "complete" ourselves, because the Jew will forever look for that missing piece, which the Gentile doesn't required to look for.

It's all a matter of prespective.

The only thing that Jews were REALLY CHOSEN for do DO, is Tikkun Olam. Every person can do Tikkun Olam, but it's the duty of the Jew to do it, or TRY doing it, better than any other person. Because we have sinned, we are required to do Tikkunim more than the Gentiles.

My religion requires plenty from us. We call it Sunnah of Muhammad. You can read some things about it. I don't believe that God expects Jews to have a higher standard. I don't believe it is us either. But I do believe what you mean by that he put the Jews through a lot back when they were the first Abrahamic religion. But I believe that was passed down to Christians than us Muslims as the final ones. If I respond a little late it's because I'm doing something so excuse me for that.

 

[sealadaigh]

The only ones using the "chosen ideology" crap are haters and ignorant.

Jews were CHOSEN to recieve the Torah from HaShem. Not "chosen" as in "BETTER" than anyone.

It's about time you people learned the difference. Your ignorance is tiring, honestly!

i think your first sentence contradicts your second.

people know and understand the difference but...

if you are chosen by an omnipotent, all powerful, only god to be his representative on earth and to be the only ones capable of passing his sacred and omnipotent word to the world and if you claim that this omnipotent god is holding you to higher standards than the rest of us and if you couple all that with talmudic teachings, which i don't see how you can avoid, than i think there is a definite implication of "better".

i really don't think gentiles jumped on this without any provocation at all. i have heard it uttered by ewish people in casual conversation having nothing at all to do with the torah.

maybe it is time for you people to understand our reaction to not being god's chosen.

<<<"if you are chosen by an omnipotent, all powerful, only god to be his representative on earth and to be the only ones capable of passing his sacred and omnipotent word to the world and if you claim that this omnipotent god is holding you to higher standards than the rest of us and if you couple all that with talmudic teachings, which i don't see how you can avoid, than i think there is a definite implication of "better".>>>

See, but that's just it. It's totally the other way around.

If we were chosen to recieve the Torah from HaShem, he expect us to have higher standarts as you say...

Which means that while being a Gentile is an "easy task" (so to speak), being a Jew means you've put to alot of tests, and much more temped to fail.

While for a gentile the number of commandments is 7, the number of commandments for a Jew is 613.

If God's to hold us for higher standard, one can ask why we are being put through so much? if we were "better" WE would have been given the "easy pass" while the Gentile would have been the one to suffer the weight of so much commandments.

The commandments, while being blessed, are also a wight and a test we must follow to "complete" ourselves, because the Jew will forever look for that missing piece, which the Gentile doesn't required to look for.

It's all a matter of prespective.

The only thing that Jews were REALLY CHOSEN for do DO, is Tikkun Olam. Every person can do Tikkun Olam, but it's the duty of the Jew to do it, or TRY doing it, better than any other person. Because we have sinned, we are required to do Tikkunim more than the Gentiles.

the only thing the above says to me is "god thinks we're better".

how can it mean anything else. god thinks you are up to the challange and the rest of us aren't.

 

[MHunterB]

The only ones using the "chosen ideology" crap are haters and ignorant.

Jews were CHOSEN to recieve the Torah from HaShem. Not "chosen" as in "BETTER" than anyone.

It's about time you people learned the difference. Your ignorance is tiring, honestly!

i think your first sentence contradicts your second.

people know and understand the difference but...

if you are chosen by an omnipotent, all powerful, only god to be his representative on earth and to be the only ones capable of passing his sacred and omnipotent word to the world and if you claim that this omnipotent god is holding you to higher standards than the rest of us and if you couple all that with talmudic teachings, which i don't see how you can avoid, than i think there is a definite implication of "better".

i really don't think gentiles jumped on this without any provocation at all. i have heard it uttered by ewish people in casual conversation having nothing at all to do with the torah.

maybe it is time for you people to understand our reaction to not being god's chosen.

Except that the stuff in bold is no part of Jewish teachings. NONE. We NEVER claim to be 'the ONLY' ones capable, or that Torah is the ONLY 'sacred and omnipotent word'. In fact, it's debatable whether Judaism considers YHVH to be functionally 'omnipotent' - since that would preclude free will.

Maybe it's time for all the ones who address someone else as 'you people' to understand that such mode of address is irretrievably rude and demeaning. And that such usage trumpets "I am simply not worth taking seriously" to anyone reading.

Must I remind you WHO is the only other poster here to make a habit of using that particular insulting mode of address?

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Are you saying you need to learn more talking in Arabic?

And generally yes, Islamic jihad and Hamas militants know Hebrew the most though.

This goes for Gaza. I'm sure the Palestinians in the West Bank all know a good amount.

I don't need to learn Arabic, I just want to. I love the way it sounds and I also am just generally interested in languages. When I was in university , I had the choice to take Spanish or Arabic for my elective class, but I chose Spanish.

Arabic is a beautiful language, one Arabic word translated in English could mean 5 or 10 English words. It's really a language where you can describe yourself so well or describe a thing so well. It's my favorite language and not because i grew up speaking Arabic. But because I discover this language. And I still learn more and more. The Koran helps me understand Arabic more. Although I am already fluent in Arabic. The best thing is the yelling, , the Arabic language can make you scare people. I love that advantage.....

 

[Lipush]

I'm not sure how the Israeli court will deal with it. For me personally, I would use common sense and religious law. I don't think she should have killed the man. But I would do the same thing Prophets would do and arrange the situation. Pray for the dead. Straighten up the family and do what's fair. I don't think secular law takes all the context in it. Some of the laws are great and make sense but there is corruption within the law and not all of it is the right way.

In the Israeli justice system, religion is the last source you look in for guidence, something you use only when the law makers left this deciosion in the air.

I don't like that.

There is no clear separation between religion and state when it comes to justice system in Israel, which is a major problem.

For example, marriage and divorce, adoption and family matters, in most cases will be dealt with in religious court, even if the couple isn't religious at all. When I'll get married, I could do it only with a Rabbi present, there is no civil marriages in Israel.

But in other cases the religious wieght is slim to none. Even if the Jewish laws could bring much help, you cannot rely on them. Or can decide based on Jewish values, but not on Jewish LAWS (Halacha). but when it comes to marriage, divorce, raising children? The Halacha and many times the Halacha ONLY, will be the one to decide.

Sometimes its good, sometimes not.

 

[sealadaigh]

i think your first sentence contradicts your second.

people know and understand the difference but...

if you are chosen by an omnipotent, all powerful, only god to be his representative on earth and to be the only ones capable of passing his sacred and omnipotent word to the world and if you claim that this omnipotent god is holding you to higher standards than the rest of us and if you couple all that with talmudic teachings, which i don't see how you can avoid, than i think there is a definite implication of "better".

i really don't think gentiles jumped on this without any provocation at all. i have heard it uttered by ewish people in casual conversation having nothing at all to do with the torah.

maybe it is time for you people to understand our reaction to not being god's chosen.

<<<"if you are chosen by an omnipotent, all powerful, only god to be his representative on earth and to be the only ones capable of passing his sacred and omnipotent word to the world and if you claim that this omnipotent god is holding you to higher standards than the rest of us and if you couple all that with talmudic teachings, which i don't see how you can avoid, than i think there is a definite implication of "better".>>>

See, but that's just it. It's totally the other way around.

If we were chosen to recieve the Torah from HaShem, he expect us to have higher standarts as you say...

Which means that while being a Gentile is an "easy task" (so to speak), being a Jew means you've put to alot of tests, and much more temped to fail.

While for a gentile the number of commandments is 7, the number of commandments for a Jew is 613.

If God's to hold us for higher standard, one can ask why we are being put through so much? if we were "better" WE would have been given the "easy pass" while the Gentile would have been the one to suffer the weight of so much commandments.

The commandments, while being blessed, are also a wight and a test we must follow to "complete" ourselves, because the Jew will forever look for that missing piece, which the Gentile doesn't required to look for.

It's all a matter of prespective.

The only thing that Jews were REALLY CHOSEN for do DO, is Tikkun Olam. Every person can do Tikkun Olam, but it's the duty of the Jew to do it, or TRY doing it, better than any other person. Because we have sinned, we are required to do Tikkunim more than the Gentiles.

My religion requires plenty from us. We call it Sunnah of Muhammad. You can read some things about it. I don't believe that God expects Jews to have a higher standard. I don't believe it is us either. But I do believe what you mean by that he put the Jews through a lot back when they were the first Abrahamic religion. But I believe that was passed down to Christians than us Muslims as the final ones. If I respond a little late it's because I'm doing something so excuse me for that.

no race, ethnicity, culture, religion, is either better or chosen based upon what they think their god said.