What do liberals want the US to be?

[Redfish]

OK...let's look at where the playing field is not level
We have a wealthy class who get a disproportional say in how legislation is crafted and who it helps. Specific legislation includes tax structure, deductions, labor laws
Affirmative action was an immensely successful liberal program that helped all people. Yes, it did level the playing field

Does that mean you want to eliminate all wealth?

Or do you want to eliminate legislation?

Or something else?

Why do you guys always come back with such stupid responses?

How does advocating policies that don't directly make the rich wealthier equate to "eliminate all wealth"?

How is that a stupid response?

You said that the wealthy class has a " disproportional say in how legislation is crafted and who it helps."

I assumed that you meant they had such a say because they are able to spend their money to influence legislators.

How would you stop that?

I gave you two options that would stop that influence: eliminating wealth, or eliminating legislation. I also gave you the all-important third option: something else. A free pass to explain in your own words what you actually meant.

So?

Your response:
Does that mean you want to eliminate all wealth?

Totally unrelated to what I posted

What about it is unrelated?

"We have a wealthy class who get a disproportional say..." -> "Does that mean you want to eliminate all wealth?"

"in how legislation is crafted and who it helps." - > "Or do you want to eliminate legislation?"

I addressed two aspects of your complaint and invited you to explain your own resolution if neither of the ones I suggested fit your point of view.

Again, what about that is at all unrelated to what you posted?

What would you do to eliminate the "disproportional say" that the "wealthy class" has in our legislative process?

Eliminating wealth is not what you had in mind. Eliminating the legislative process is not what you had in mind. Ok. What did you have in mind?

The reality is that liberals want a liberal thinking king or dictator. Thats what they want, but not one of them has the guts to admit it.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

this is a serious question, please only reply with serious comments.

what specifically do liberals want the US to become?
Tell us exactly what you want changed, and why.

Seriously?

Liberals want a country that provides a level playing field for all people regardless of race, sex, sexuality or social class
Liberals want to help those who need helping

We pretty much have this... what you guys want though, is equality if outcome; which of course will never happen.

 

[rightwinger]

I would suggest you read some John Rawls on the subject.

I suggest reading John Hawkins :

20 Examples of What Liberalism REALLY Is - John Hawkins - Page full

JFK would be a conservative today. Is the following in concert with current liberal thinking?:

"ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"

Of course not, today's liberals want to have everyone sucking the govt teat.

It never ceases to amaze me how conservatives have twisted "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" into a JFK condemnation of social programs

JFK was making a plea for public service in advance of his Peace Corps initiative. JFK fought hard for social programs that became LBJs war on poverty

thats true, but his total context was much larger. JFK did not support a welfare state.

As to the so-called war on poverty, there are more americans in poverty today than when that failed libtardian policy was started. We have spent trillions to eradicate poverty and it has grown.

Liberalism does not work, never has, never will

Poverty in 1960 meant no electricity, no running water, barefoot kids

We have come a long way in the war on poverty

 

[BluesLegend]

Social Security will eventually go to a hand to mouth set up when the surplus goes away.

It won't go bankrupt. But all the seniors you've duped into living on 1000/month will be living on 759/month.

That's a raging success.

Eventually, we will do what we should have done all along- tax the rich appropriately to pay back those bonds and means test is so we aren't writing out huge checks to rich people.

^^^ typical liberal, government forces the 'rich' to pay into social security and liberals want to screw them out of the benefits they paid to receive, plus force them to pay back the money congress ahem "borrowed" from social security. Yeah, that's fair.

 

[rightwinger]

this is a serious question, please only reply with serious comments.

what specifically do liberals want the US to become?
Tell us exactly what you want changed, and why.

Seriously?

Liberals want a country that provides a level playing field for all people regardless of race, sex, sexuality or social class
Liberals want to help those who need helping

We pretty much have this... what you guys want though, is equality if outcome; which of course will never happen.

Again you rant about the "equality of outcome" conservative myth

You have yet to provide a single source where anyone is requesting equality of outcome

 

[Redfish]

this is a serious question, please only reply with serious comments.

what specifically do liberals want the US to become?
Tell us exactly what you want changed, and why.

Seriously?

Liberals want a country that provides a level playing field for all people regardless of race, sex, sexuality or social class
Liberals want to help those who need helping

We pretty much have this... what you guys want though, is equality if outcome; which of course will never happen.

yep, they don't want anyone's feelings hurt because someone has more stuff than they do. They want every kid to get a trophy even if his team does not win a single game. Can't hurt little Johnny's feelings by facing him with the reality that not everyone wins, succeeds, is pretty or handsome, is smart, or can play the piano.

 

[BluesLegend]

These midterms were losses on historic levels. You can write them off if you like without dealing with that, please do.

These midterms were apathy on historic levels. The lowest voter participation rate since 1942. Winning because no one showed up to vote is not a mandate.

Hey about the same number of people voted in 2006 when you people said it was a referendum on Bush, when you people said the people had given Democrats a mandate. OH SNAP!

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Because you might possibly learn something in the process.

We should never think ourselves to be too intelligent to hear opposing viewpoints.

Mindless drivel that only acts to divide has precious little value no matter the political orientation.

If you need that sense of validation that comes with being part of a tribe, however, don't let me get in you way. I happen to think the world is a whole lot more complex than these extremely simple-minded dichotomies people like to foist, but I do realize some derive comfort from such simplification. The world must seem less scary to you when you only have to engage it this way.

Speaking of mindless drivel...

The world isn't really that complex. Now, folks like yourself like to stand on your pedestal, pounding your chest telling us how you're the smart ones who "get it" and how us neophytes are too stupid to breathe.

In fact, it has been my experience that quite the opposite is true.

 

[Redfish]

this is a serious question, please only reply with serious comments.

what specifically do liberals want the US to become?
Tell us exactly what you want changed, and why.

Seriously?

Liberals want a country that provides a level playing field for all people regardless of race, sex, sexuality or social class
Liberals want to help those who need helping

We pretty much have this... what you guys want though, is equality if outcome; which of course will never happen.

Again you rant about the "equality of outcome" conservative myth

You have yet to provide a single source where anyone is requesting equality of outcome

What exactly do you have in mind then when you say things like the rich need to pay more? What are your rants about minimum wage about if not equalizing income?

of course you libs want equality of outcome, every post from a lib in this thread validates that that is one of your goals.

 

[Mathbud1]

How is that a stupid response?

You said that the wealthy class has a " disproportional say in how legislation is crafted and who it helps."

I assumed that you meant they had such a say because they are able to spend their money to influence legislators.

How would you stop that?

I gave you two options that would stop that influence: eliminating wealth, or eliminating legislation. I also gave you the all-important third option: something else. A free pass to explain in your own words what you actually meant.

So?

Something else could include doing away with the sophistry that a corporation is a person, or re-implementing the fairness doctrine.

When Reagan eliminated the fairness doctrine that served us well for all those years, he did so at the behest of those who realized that they could better control the message. This is not a direct way to influence legislators (who need very little in the first place since they are in the same social class), but it does provide the groundswell of support for electing them.

So you see the Fairness Doctrine as a method for reducing the influence that wealthy people have on the legislative process.

Is that because you see it as a method for reducing the influence that wealthy station owners have on the message being broadcast? The hope being that a more balanced message will lead to a more informed voting population?That this will then change who the voters elect? That the legislators will then be more free from the influence of wealthy people?

Sorry just trying to follow your train of thought.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

this is a serious question, please only reply with serious comments.

what specifically do liberals want the US to become?
Tell us exactly what you want changed, and why.

Seriously?

Liberals want a country that provides a level playing field for all people regardless of race, sex, sexuality or social class
Liberals want to help those who need helping

We pretty much have this... what you guys want though, is equality if outcome; which of course will never happen.

Again you rant about the "equality of outcome" conservative myth

You have yet to provide a single source where anyone is requesting equality of outcome

The minimum wage argument is a prime example.

 

[Redfish]

Because you might possibly learn something in the process.

We should never think ourselves to be too intelligent to hear opposing viewpoints.

Mindless drivel that only acts to divide has precious little value no matter the political orientation.

If you need that sense of validation that comes with being part of a tribe, however, don't let me get in you way. I happen to think the world is a whole lot more complex than these extremely simple-minded dichotomies people like to foist, but I do realize some derive comfort from such simplification. The world must seem less scary to you when you only have to engage it this way.

Speaking of mindless drivel...

The world isn't really that complex. Now, folks like yourself like to stand on your pedestal, pounding your chest telling us how you're the smart ones who "get it" and how us neophytes are too stupid to breathe.

In fact, it has been my experience that quite the opposite is true.

are they using Gruber's teleprompter?

 

[JoeNormal]

I would replace the world liberal with progressive statist. Today's liberals are not liberals in the classical sense.

Progressive statists want a supreme federal government, where people are totally dependent on the state, and thus the state is an inseparable part of their lives. On the social front, they want everyone to either agree with them, or be ostracized and eliminated from society, or at least to just shut up in public.

You just pretty much described China, or North Korea.

Why don't they move there then?

Because neither of you know what you're talking about.

 

[rightwinger]

OK...let's look at where the playing field is not level
We have a wealthy class who get a disproportional say in how legislation is crafted and who it helps. Specific legislation includes tax structure, deductions, labor laws
Affirmative action was an immensely successful liberal program that helped all people. Yes, it did level the playing field

Does that mean you want to eliminate all wealth?

Or do you want to eliminate legislation?

Or something else?

Why do you guys always come back with such stupid responses?

How does advocating policies that don't directly make the rich wealthier equate to "eliminate all wealth"?

How is that a stupid response?

You said that the wealthy class has a " disproportional say in how legislation is crafted and who it helps."

I assumed that you meant they had such a say because they are able to spend their money to influence legislators.

How would you stop that?

I gave you two options that would stop that influence: eliminating wealth, or eliminating legislation. I also gave you the all-important third option: something else. A free pass to explain in your own words what you actually meant.

So?

Your response:
Does that mean you want to eliminate all wealth?

Totally unrelated to what I posted

What about it is unrelated?

"We have a wealthy class who get a disproportional say..." -> "Does that mean you want to eliminate all wealth?"

"in how legislation is crafted and who it helps." - > "Or do you want to eliminate legislation?"

I addressed two aspects of your complaint and invited you to explain your own resolution if neither of the ones I suggested fit your point of view.

Again, what about that is at all unrelated to what you posted?

What would you do to eliminate the "disproportional say" that the "wealthy class" has in our legislative process?

Eliminating wealth is not what you had in mind. Eliminating the legislative process is not what you had in mind. Ok. What did you have in mind?

"We have a wealthy class who get a disproportional say..." -> "Does that mean you want to eliminate all wealth?"

Your turn

How does advocating the wealthy have less political clout result in elimination of all wealth?

 

[Flash]

It never ceases to amaze me how conservatives have twisted "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" into a JFK condemnation of social programs

JFK was making a plea for public service in advance of his Peace Corps initiative. JFK fought hard for social programs that became LBJs war on poverty

JFK also believed in trickled down economics. He felt if the filthy government taxed the people less everybody would be better off. Libtards nowadays hate the idea of less taxes and putting more money into the hands of the people that earned it.

Kennedy was on his way in Dallas to give a speech about further reducing taxes in the US when he was assassinated, by the way. That is ironic. An avowed Marxist whacked a President that wanted to reduce taxes in America.

 

[Redfish]

Does that mean you want to eliminate all wealth?

Or do you want to eliminate legislation?

Or something else?

Why do you guys always come back with such stupid responses?

How does advocating policies that don't directly make the rich wealthier equate to "eliminate all wealth"?

How is that a stupid response?

You said that the wealthy class has a " disproportional say in how legislation is crafted and who it helps."

I assumed that you meant they had such a say because they are able to spend their money to influence legislators.

How would you stop that?

I gave you two options that would stop that influence: eliminating wealth, or eliminating legislation. I also gave you the all-important third option: something else. A free pass to explain in your own words what you actually meant.

So?

Your response:
Does that mean you want to eliminate all wealth?

Totally unrelated to what I posted

What about it is unrelated?

"We have a wealthy class who get a disproportional say..." -> "Does that mean you want to eliminate all wealth?"

"in how legislation is crafted and who it helps." - > "Or do you want to eliminate legislation?"

I addressed two aspects of your complaint and invited you to explain your own resolution if neither of the ones I suggested fit your point of view.

Again, what about that is at all unrelated to what you posted?

What would you do to eliminate the "disproportional say" that the "wealthy class" has in our legislative process?

Eliminating wealth is not what you had in mind. Eliminating the legislative process is not what you had in mind. Ok. What did you have in mind?

"We have a wealthy class who get a disproportional say..." -> "Does that mean you want to eliminate all wealth?"

Your turn

How does advocating the wealthy have less political clout result in elimination of all wealth?

would you reduce the clout of Soros, the CEOs of the MSM, the NY times. Would the "fairness doctrine" apply to liberal news outlets?

Have you gotten the DNC to buy into this idea?

 

[rightwinger]

this is a serious question, please only reply with serious comments.

what specifically do liberals want the US to become?
Tell us exactly what you want changed, and why.

Seriously?

Liberals want a country that provides a level playing field for all people regardless of race, sex, sexuality or social class
Liberals want to help those who need helping

We pretty much have this... what you guys want though, is equality if outcome; which of course will never happen.

Again you rant about the "equality of outcome" conservative myth

You have yet to provide a single source where anyone is requesting equality of outcome

What exactly do you have in mind then when you say things like the rich need to pay more? What are your rants about minimum wage about if not equalizing income?

of course you libs want equality of outcome, every post from a lib in this thread validates that that is one of your goals.

OK lets look at "equality of outcome"
That means everyone receives the same outcome

How does advocating that the wealthy pay slightly more force the rich to a level where they end up with the same as everyone else?
How does increasing a minimum wage by a few dollars move these workers up to a point where they are making the same as every other worker?

You are talking in absurdity and hyperbole

 

[Redfish]

It never ceases to amaze me how conservatives have twisted "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" into a JFK condemnation of social programs

JFK was making a plea for public service in advance of his Peace Corps initiative. JFK fought hard for social programs that became LBJs war on poverty

JFK also believed in trickled down economics. He felt if the filthy government taxed the people less everybody would be better off. Libtards nowadays hate the idea of less taxes and putting more money into the hands of the people that earned it.

Kennedy was on his way in Dallas to give a speech about further reducing taxes in the US when he was assassinated, by the way. That is ironic. An avowed Marxist whacked a President that wanted to reduce taxes in America.

that bit of truth is causing liberal heads to implode all over this message board--------------can you hear them?

 

[Redfish]

this is a serious question, please only reply with serious comments.

what specifically do liberals want the US to become?
Tell us exactly what you want changed, and why.

Seriously?

Liberals want a country that provides a level playing field for all people regardless of race, sex, sexuality or social class
Liberals want to help those who need helping

We pretty much have this... what you guys want though, is equality if outcome; which of course will never happen.

Again you rant about the "equality of outcome" conservative myth

You have yet to provide a single source where anyone is requesting equality of outcome

What exactly do you have in mind then when you say things like the rich need to pay more? What are your rants about minimum wage about if not equalizing income?

of course you libs want equality of outcome, every post from a lib in this thread validates that that is one of your goals.

OK lets look at "equality of outcome"
That means everyone receives the same outcome

How does advocating that the wealthy pay slightly more force the rich to a level where they end up with the same as everyone else?
How does increasing a minimum wage by a few dollars move these workers up to a point where they are making the same as every other worker?

You are talking in absurdity and hyperbole

How much income is too much?
How much income is too little?

Does Oprah make too much? How about Beyonce? Pelosi? Reid? Obama? The clintons? How much of their incomes should they be allowed to keep? Give us the answer as a %.

 

[rightwinger]

It never ceases to amaze me how conservatives have twisted "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" into a JFK condemnation of social programs

JFK was making a plea for public service in advance of his Peace Corps initiative. JFK fought hard for social programs that became LBJs war on poverty

JFK also believed in trickled down economics. He felt if the filthy government taxed the people less everybody would be better off. Libtards nowadays hate the idea of less taxes and putting more money into the hands of the people that earned it.

Kennedy was on his way in Dallas to give a speech about further reducing taxes in the US when he was assassinated, by the way. That is ironic. An avowed Marxist whacked a President that wanted to reduce taxes in America.

Another rightwing myth

During WWII we raised income taxes on the rich to 90% at the highest level. 15 years after the war, JFK advocated lowering the upper tax rate from 90% down to 70%.
The current upper tax rate is 39%

Rightwing claims that JFK was a supply side economist are ridiculous. Are you willing to return to the 70% tax rate that JFK wanted?

 

[Redfish]

this is a serious question, please only reply with serious comments.

what specifically do liberals want the US to become?
Tell us exactly what you want changed, and why.

Seriously?

Liberals want a country that provides a level playing field for all people regardless of race, sex, sexuality or social class
Liberals want to help those who need helping

We pretty much have this... what you guys want though, is equality if outcome; which of course will never happen.

Again you rant about the "equality of outcome" conservative myth

You have yet to provide a single source where anyone is requesting equality of outcome

What exactly do you have in mind then when you say things like the rich need to pay more? What are your rants about minimum wage about if not equalizing income?

of course you libs want equality of outcome, every post from a lib in this thread validates that that is one of your goals.

OK lets look at "equality of outcome"
That means everyone receives the same outcome

How does advocating that the wealthy pay slightly more force the rich to a level where they end up with the same as everyone else?
How does increasing a minimum wage by a few dollars move these workers up to a point where they are making the same as every other worker?

You are talking in absurdity and hyperbole

Second question: what do you propose that the government do with the "slightly more" that would be taken from the wealthy?