What do liberals want the US to be?

[BluesLegend]

What do liberals want the US to be?

Liberals want to rule the masses, not lead them rule them and to do that they need control of the nations wealth. So far so good they have control of 22% of GDP and they are on track to continue grabbing a bunch more.

Liberals are racking up debt at an alarming rate, on purpose. Why? Well they advocated for large tax increases for decades but it was a loser in elections. Now they simply pile on the debt which will force large tax increases whether the country likes it or not. Liberals are piling up government spending and growing government at every opportunity? Why? Same reason.

What do liberals preach constantly? Yes "wealth inequality, the 1 percent, the rich don't pay their fair share" all code for give them control of the nations wealth. $18 trillion in debt and what are they doing? Yes importing 10's of millions of poor illegals that need government handouts.

 

[martybegan]

.

AA laws had their time and their place and they had their value.

But at some point "progressives" have to start looking ahead, not behind.

"Caring" can become counter-productive when it retards growth.

.

AA laws were discrimatory. Discrimination is never appropriate, no matter who is the victim.

I don't disagree with that. Treating people differently because of the color of their skin is wrong.

In my view, there was a time when AA was simply the lesser of two evils, and sometimes that's where we find ourselves.

.

But progressives refuse to admit that there was a cost to those who were passed over due to the system.

If they cannot be truthful about that, how can we expect them to be truthful in general?

 

[Mac1958]

.

AA laws had their time and their place and they had their value.

But at some point "progressives" have to start looking ahead, not behind.

"Caring" can become counter-productive when it retards growth.

.

AA laws were discrimatory. Discrimination is never appropriate, no matter who is the victim.

I don't disagree with that. Treating people differently because of the color of their skin is wrong.

In my view, there was a time when AA was simply the lesser of two evils, and sometimes that's where we find ourselves.

.

But progressives refuse to admit that there was a cost to those who were passed over due to the system.

If they cannot be truthful about that, how can we expect them to be truthful in general?

Yeah.

As a person who probably leans to the left overall, it's among my biggest frustrations with the Left.

I can't help but think they see this but don't care, due to politics.

.

 

[bripat9643]

It would help if people could learn at least enough of the basics of political science to realize liberalism is an ideology with certain tenets rather than just describing a person. This Manichaean insistence that people are divided into just two political groups is part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

People can call themselves "liberal" all they want, but unless they are operating from the standpoint of advancing liberal values, they are just left wing fundamentalists.

The shortest answer I can give here , though, is that liberalism places greater value on social justice than social order. The "conserve" in conservatism refers to the preservation of social order over social justice.

OK, now you need to define "social justice". Who decides what is "socially just" ?

Whenever you put a qualifier before "justice," the result is injustice.

 

[boedicca]

affirmative action punished people because of their race, sex, or who their parents were. How is that "fair"?

You do realize that most of the hated "wealthy class" are democrats and liberals don't you?

Liberal hypocrisy is rampant in hollywood, the media, and corporate america.

The difference is that wealthy liberals are willing to pass laws that force them to pay more
Wealthy conservatives pass laws that take away programs for the poor

thats simply not true. half of american pay no federal income tax. the top 5% pay 60% of the tax bill.

They are paying the same percentage they have paid in taxes....the reason they are paying more of the total income tax bill is because they are the only ones profiting from the economy.... the reason the middle class and poorest are paying less is due to the middle and lower class not profiting from the economy.....just as when corporations pay little to nothing in taxes when they are not profitable.... to tell the middle/lower class that more of the tax burden is to be put on their shoulders because they are NOT PROFITING, is utterly shameful.

do you understand that we have a progressive income tax? the rich pay a higher percentage than the middle and lower income people.

the US has the highest corporate income tax rate in the world.

do you know anything?

the federal income tax is progressive, but State income taxes and social security taxes and medicare taxes and cigarette taxes and gasoline taxes and liquor taxes and property taxes and sales taxes are not progressive...

The entire tax structure to run this Nation has to be taken in to consideration, you can't just single out one aspect of it and claim 'foul'....

Scuze me, but state income tax in CA is certainly progressive, not that I advocate such.

The left complain about concentrated power of the rich elites. Well, when a small ratio Pay All Of The Net Taxes, they are going to exert undo influence on public policy.

 

[martybegan]

.

AA laws had their time and their place and they had their value.

But at some point "progressives" have to start looking ahead, not behind.

"Caring" can become counter-productive when it retards growth.

.

AA laws were discrimatory. Discrimination is never appropriate, no matter who is the victim.

I don't disagree with that. Treating people differently because of the color of their skin is wrong.

In my view, there was a time when AA was simply the lesser of two evils, and sometimes that's where we find ourselves.

.

But progressives refuse to admit that there was a cost to those who were passed over due to the system.

If they cannot be truthful about that, how can we expect them to be truthful in general?

Yeah.

As a person who probably leans to the left overall, it's among my biggest frustrations with the Left.

I can't help but think they see this but don't care, due to politics.

.

I think most of them see it, but since it doesn't fit the narrative, they ignore. Notice how Rightwinger refused to answer my question.

Its a common problem with both sides of the political spectrum.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"What do liberals want the US to be?"

It's not a matter of 'want to be' but a matter of ensuring America continues toward its historic goal to realize the success of the American Experiment.

We've made excellent progress over the last 60 years to realize the goal of the Founding Generation: to create a truly just and lawful society. From ending segregation in the 1950s to protecting the civil rights of gay Americans today, the promise guaranteed in the Constitution that citizens would be subject solely to the rule of law, as opposed to the errant, capricious rule of man, remains the paramount goal.

Unfortunately reaching this goal is jeopardized by many on the right, where reactionary conservatives, fearful of change, diversity, dissent, and expressions of individual liberty, seek to undermine the Constitution's promise of a just and lawful society, by pursuing policies and measures hostile to those whom conservatives fear and disdain.

As advocates and defenders of the Constitution and its case law, liberals will continue to defend the civil liberties of all Americans against the fear and reactionaryism that has manifested with the advent of America becoming a more diverse and inclusive society.

So again, it's not a matter of 'want to be,' but a matter of keeping America from returning to a past when African-Americans, Hispanic Americans, gay Americans, and women lived as second-class citizens, their rights and civil liberties ignored, denied the Constitution's promise of a just and lawful society.

 

[martybegan]

"What do liberals want the US to be?"

It's not a matter of 'want to be' but a matter of ensuring America continues toward its historic goal to realize the success of the American Experiment.

We've made excellent progress over the last 60 years to realize the goal of the Founding Generation: to create a truly just and lawful society. From ending segregation in the 1950s to protecting the civil rights of gay Americans today, the promise guaranteed in the Constitution that citizens would be subject solely to the rule of law, as opposed to the errant, capricious rule of man, remains the paramount goal.

Unfortunately reaching this goal is jeopardized by many on the right, where reactionary conservatives, fearful of change, diversity, dissent, and expressions of individual liberty, seek to undermine the Constitution's promise of a just and lawful society, by pursuing policies and measures hostile to those whom conservatives fear and disdain.

As advocates and defenders of the Constitution and its case law, liberals will continue to defend the civil liberties of all Americans against the fear and reactionaryism that has manifested with the advent of America becoming a more diverse and inclusive society.

So again, it's not a matter of 'want to be,' but a matter of keeping America from returning to a past when African-Americans, Hispanic Americans, gay Americans, and women lived as second-class citizens, their rights and civil liberties ignored, denied the Constitution's promise of a just and lawful society.

except if you don't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding, Then its BAKE THE CAKE YOU FUCKING PEASANT.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Oh good! Another thread with a USMB "conservative" pretending to be interested in knowing what liberals want.

We needed one of those.

As expected, it has become a thread where crazed nutters go on and on about what they think liberals want and wind up whining about black people and gay people.

Great food for thought! Thanks!

 

[martybegan]

Oh good! Another thread with a USMB "conservative" pretending to be interested in knowing what liberals want.

We needed one of those.

As expected, it has become a thread where crazed nutters go on and on about what they think liberals want and wind up whining about black people and gay people.

Great food for thought! Thanks!

I'm surprised it took this long for some kook to bring up ye olde race/sexuality card.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Oh good! Another thread with a USMB "conservative" pretending to be interested in knowing what liberals want.

We needed one of those.

As expected, it has become a thread where crazed nutters go on and on about what they think liberals want and wind up whining about black people and gay people.

Great food for thought! Thanks!

I'm surprised it took this long for some kook to bring up ye olde race/sexuality card.

You must not have been reading the thread. I think it was you who brought up gay people. Fuck off, dummy.

 

[martybegan]

Oh good! Another thread with a USMB "conservative" pretending to be interested in knowing what liberals want.

We needed one of those.

As expected, it has become a thread where crazed nutters go on and on about what they think liberals want and wind up whining about black people and gay people.

Great food for thought! Thanks!

I'm surprised it took this long for some kook to bring up ye olde race/sexuality card.

You must not have been reading the thread. I think it was you who brought up gay people. Fuck off, dummy.

The race/sexuality card isn't about talking about a topic, its about your side saying anyone with even close to a contrary view on some subject related to it is automatically a bigot and the most evul person on the planet.

East shit and die, jackass.

 

[regent]

When I was a kid we believed Blacks could not perform well in athletics. Our evidence, how many Blacks played in the major leagues. There were none, ergo Blacks were not good athletes.

 

[zeke]

how did affirmative action help the following: Herman Cain, Thomas Sowell, Beyonce, Bill Cosby, Sammy Davis Jr, Whitney Houston, MLK jr, obama, Oprah.

That is quite the talent pool that you picked. Talent goes a long ways.

How about you pick out three random black people who work in any form of government (county, city, state or federal)

. They will explain to you how the fact that the federal government wrote affirmative action laws and equal opportunity laws and required that those laws be followed by all forms of government when hiring, thereby allowing a far more "equal" work environment than the private sector.

Blacks represent a higher % of the work force in civil service than they do in private commerce. They hold a higher % or management type jobs in civil service than the private sector.

And a great deal of this success in civil service is because of affirmative action and equal opportunity laws being followed by the governments that initiated such laws.

Everybody has the same chance to prosper under the law. Blacks seemed to perform fine when given the equal opportunity afforded them in civil service jobs.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

this is a serious question, please only reply with serious comments.

what specifically do liberals want the US to become?
Tell us exactly what you want changed, and why.

Seriously?

Liberals want a country that provides a level playing field for all people regardless of race, sex, sexuality or social class
Liberals want to help those who need helping

Exactly. Because we may all have the same right to pursue happiness, but we don't all start off in the same place. In the long run a society is ruined when inequality is allowed to run amok.

 

[Ravi]

OK...let's look at where the playing field is not level
We have a wealthy class who get a disproportional say in how legislation is crafted and who it helps. Specific legislation includes tax structure, deductions, labor laws
Affirmative action was an immensely successful liberal program that helped all people. Yes, it did level the playing field

affirmative action punished people because of their race, sex, or who their parents were. How is that "fair"?

You do realize that most of the hated "wealthy class" are democrats and liberals don't you?

Liberal hypocrisy is rampant in hollywood, the media, and corporate america.

The difference is that wealthy liberals are willing to pass laws that force them to pay more
Wealthy conservatives pass laws that take away programs for the poor

thats simply not true. half of american pay no federal income tax. the top 5% pay 60% of the tax bill.

They are paying the same percentage they have paid in taxes....the reason they are paying more of the total income tax bill is because they are the only ones profiting from the economy.... the reason the middle class and poorest are paying less is due to the middle and lower class not profiting from the economy.....just as when corporations pay little to nothing in taxes when they are not profitable.... to tell the middle/lower class that more of the tax burden is to be put on their shoulders because they are NOT PROFITING, is utterly shameful.

do you understand that we have a progressive income tax? the rich pay a higher percentage than the middle and lower income people.

the US has the highest corporate income tax rate in the world.

do you know anything?

Nope. I see yet another fool that doesn't understand the tax code.

 

[Ravi]

It would help if people could learn at least enough of the basics of political science to realize liberalism is an ideology with certain tenets rather than just describing a person. This Manichaean insistence that people are divided into just two political groups is part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

People can call themselves "liberal" all they want, but unless they are operating from the standpoint of advancing liberal values, they are just left wing fundamentalists.

The shortest answer I can give here , though, is that liberalism places greater value on social justice than social order. The "conserve" in conservatism refers to the preservation of social order over social justice.

Yep, which is why cons don't care if cops shoot unarmed people.

The truth isn't spam.

 

[rightwinger]

It helped those who were never given an opportunity to fill management or Complex jobs. In a society where blacks were only allowed menial jobs and women were only allowed subservient jobs, affirmative action was necessary
Affirmative action worked

Why should one race be given special consideration to fill an opportunity over another even though they're LESS QUALIFIED?

Are you saying blacks are too STUPID to compete on a level playing field?

How in the FUCK did obama ever become president?

Good question

Let's look at the society that existed in the 60s
White males possessed all the leadership positions and skilled positions. They claimed it was because they were best qualified. Blacks were best suited for menial labor and women could be secretaries and nurses.
In deciding who was best qualified for a managerial position, white male executives universally decided that white males were best suited for managerial positions. After all, they had never seen a woman or a black in that position
Affirmative action gave women and minorities a chance to fill skilled positions and they proved they were able to handle it
Thank affirmative action if your wife or daughter is able to get a position that is not teacher, secretary, nurse or cashier

how did affirmative action help the following: Herman Cain, Thomas Sowell, Beyonce, Bill Cosby, Sammy Davis Jr, Whitney Houston, MLK jr, obama, Oprah.

you are wrong jake, those people succeeded because of their talents, skills, and hard work.

Good list

All have been helped by affirmative action. There was a time when black entertainers were relegated to the roles of servants and shuffling fools.

Cosby, Sammy Davis and later Whitney and Oprah benefitted from changing morals that allowed them to be looked at as real people and not stereotypes

bullshit, they were successful because they had talents, not because of the AA laws. Yes, societal change had something to do with it, but not one of the people I listed were helped by AA laws.

You think there were not talented blacks before Bill Cosby and Oprah? Twenty years earlier they would have been relegated to roles saying Yassa, Yassa I shore is hungry.

 

[candycorn]

this is a serious question, please only reply with serious comments.

what specifically do liberals want the US to become?
Tell us exactly what you want changed, and why.

Equality.

If my income is taxed at 17%, all income should be taxed at 17% whether it is dividend income or whatever.

 

[rightwinger]

.

AA laws had their time and their place and they had their value.

But at some point "progressives" have to start looking ahead, not behind.

"Caring" can become counter-productive when it retards growth.

.

Affirmative action has changed if you haven't noticed. Strict quotas are no longer in placed. Nobody is shocked at seeing a black or woman in a management position.