What do liberals want the US to be?

[Redfish]

Greenspan hailed as a "libertarian?" Who said that? Authoritarian leftist liberals? That's insane, he wasn't libertarian at all.

Nah, Greenspan was just an Ayn Rand disciple, lol

And he never strayed or grew or changed?

Ayn Rand was a virtual anarchist, and you morons think she supported government setting interest rates and manipulating them to control rates of growth? That's preposterous, which is exactly what you are, preposterous.

its quite obvious that you have not read Atlas Shrugged. You know nothing about Rand or her writings.

I hope you meant that towards dad2three because if you actually were referring to me than I'd say you just proved the reverse.

Of course I was referring to dad2three. sorry if it wasn't clear

 

[Redfish]

Ayn Rand was a virtual anarchist,

Damn, I thought she was a novelist. She did write a couple of novels. Right? Then she was made a deity by the Republican party. And now she is a "virtual anarchist".

Hell, right now I thinks she's dead.

The message of her books is individual freedom and responsibility. Her writing style is difficult so its easy to understand why the minimally intelligent do not get it.

The Republican party supports government ownership of our bodies, meddling in other country's affairs and spending increases higher than inflation, GDP or any other measure of economic growth. When Republicans got the White House and both houses, W went on a spending orgy that was a Democrat's wet dream and they knocked the fiscal conservatives who objected out of their chairmanships and the best committees. If you think that's "individual freedom and responsibility" then you are as clueless as Tyke is.

some republicans support that lunacy, ALL democrats support that lunacy.

The solution is vote out everyone who suppots govt dictatorship, loss of freedom, and fiscal insanity.

As to clueless, I think not. I am a realist. Voting for the lesser of two evils is what we are faced with in almost every election----------the alternative is to vote for the greater of two evils--------------not really a difficult decision--------is it?

 

[Redfish]

Who held the house and senate when the "economy" crashed ?

Who held the house and senate when Obama took over ?

Republicans ?

You are a fraud.

And an asshole.

That would assume they passed some legislation that crashed the economy.......what would that be?

Take your ADD meds......

We are talking about your assertion that Republicans were somehow "demanding" something when they were in the minority.

But...to your post....

How the fuck did you come up with that assumption ? You really think that congress can crash (or save) and economy ?

You totally duck the issue

It was Republicans who demanded austerity once Obama became President

Ever hear of the Tea Party?

So did my grandmother, but she was not in congress.

Who owned the congress ?

Not the Republicans.

They also demaned that Obamacare get delayed....

How'd that work out for them ?

Stop playing innocent

We know how Republicans blocked legislation

and how many bills did Reid refuse to allow to come to a vote in the senate? Speaking of blocking legislation------------------

 

[Redfish]

i've come to the believe that the two extremes have different methods for one goal === Turning America into Somalia!

-Liberals want to destroy our laws and flood us with the third world. There goal makes more sense as they're importing savages to make it so.
-Conservative losertrians... These people aim to cause the same by simply defunding all of our science, infrastructure and r&d programs. These people aim to turn the current population into a pack of animals throughout a few generations.

your second paragraph is Horseshit.

 

[Redfish]

this is a serious question, please only reply with serious comments.

what specifically do liberals want the US to become?
Tell us exactly what you want changed, and why.

I think "liberals" just want to see everyone treated the same, but there really aren't many true liberals anymore. Most are progressive zealots now, they've become so fanatical about their beliefs and want above all else a strong State to enforce their beliefs on everyone.

"everyone treated the same" Then you are against affirmative action--right?

 

[Ame®icano]

Statutory corporate tax rate in US is 39.1%.

What you're showing is average rate that gives impression all corporations pays that rate, but in reality some corporations are paying full rate, some are paying nothing, depending on tax breaks given by the government.

Statutory reflects the rate befrore corporations get all those exemptions and tax loopholes they paid politicians for. We all know they don't pay at the statutory rate

Yes... OKA: Legal deductions. There are no such things as tax-loopholes. That is a deceitful word which is applied fraudulently as a means to influence the ignorant, in order to lead to them to believe that such is somehow underhanded, untoward or somehow taking something that otherwise doesn't belong to them, such as the money being confiscated through the rationalization of "Taxation".

In terms of tax loopholes, corporations get what they pay for
Now with Citizens United and greater relaxation of allowable corporate donations we can be sure that effective corporate tax rate will drop even further

I don't think donations are problem. Corrupted politicians are.

The problem is a system that allows for politicians to be bought off by pretty much anyone who wants to buy them off.

A system that distorts legislation because legislators desperately want donations.

Change the system, change the behaviors.

Don't change the system, the behaviors continue.

.

Those who are being bought are controlling the system, so system can't be changed. Only thing we have to fight them is a voting booth.

 

[Ame®icano]

Those fiscal conservatives were republicans.

It was the vaunted "mainstreamers" (that FakeyJakey loves) who did this.

He and his ilk are responsible for helping Bush put us so far in the red.

Name the GOPers voting against Dubya's 2 UNFUNDED tax cuts that the CBO said was 1/3rd of deficits 2001-2010?

The GOPers asking for a SOURCE of revenue for GOP's 'Medicare expansion', Part D?


How about the GOPer putting forward a bill to PAY FOR the 2 UNFUNDED wars, rather than put it on the credit card?

All the GOPers voted against obama libcommie care and the soviet stimulus!! And they all sign the pledge. Just little cooperation from Democrats and America could get back to being America again.

When Bush asked for stimulus money and TARP, Republicans were all too willing give him everything he asked for

Once Obama became President, they demanded austerity and voted against the same economic tools they gave to Bush

Who held the house and senate when the "economy" crashed ?

Who held the house and senate when Obama took over ?

Republicans ?

You are a fraud.

And an asshole.

That would assume they passed some legislation that crashed the economy.......what would that be?

Or perhaps they blocked the legislation that suppose to prevent system meltdown.

 

[Ame®icano]

All the GOPers voted against obama libcommie care and the soviet stimulus!! And they all sign the pledge. Just little cooperation from Democrats and America could get back to being America again.

When Bush asked for stimulus money and TARP, Republicans were all too willing give him everything he asked for

Once Obama became President, they demanded austerity and voted against the same economic tools they gave to Bush

Who held the house and senate when the "economy" crashed ?

Who held the house and senate when Obama took over ?

Republicans ?

You are a fraud.

And an asshole.

That would assume they passed some legislation that crashed the economy.......what would that be?

Take your ADD meds......

We are talking about your assertion that Republicans were somehow "demanding" something when they were in the minority.

But...to your post....

How the fuck did you come up with that assumption ? You really think that congress can crash (or save) and economy ?

You totally duck the issue

It was Republicans who demanded austerity once Obama became President

Ever hear of the Tea Party?

Are you talking about the movement that pushed Ron Paul's campaign back in 2007?

 

[rightwinger]

That would assume they passed some legislation that crashed the economy.......what would that be?

Take your ADD meds......

We are talking about your assertion that Republicans were somehow "demanding" something when they were in the minority.

But...to your post....

How the fuck did you come up with that assumption ? You really think that congress can crash (or save) and economy ?

You totally duck the issue

It was Republicans who demanded austerity once Obama became President

Ever hear of the Tea Party?

So did my grandmother, but she was not in congress.

Who owned the congress ?

Not the Republicans.

They also demaned that Obamacare get delayed....

How'd that work out for them ?

Stop playing innocent

We know how Republicans blocked legislation

and how many bills did Reid refuse to allow to come to a vote in the senate? Speaking of blocking legislation------------------

Can you point to a single bill that had the required 60 votes to reach the floor?

You know, the same 60 vote threshold that Dems had to meet

 

[Listening]

Take your ADD meds......

We are talking about your assertion that Republicans were somehow "demanding" something when they were in the minority.

But...to your post....

How the fuck did you come up with that assumption ? You really think that congress can crash (or save) and economy ?

You totally duck the issue

It was Republicans who demanded austerity once Obama became President

Ever hear of the Tea Party?

So did my grandmother, but she was not in congress.

Who owned the congress ?

Not the Republicans.

They also demaned that Obamacare get delayed....

How'd that work out for them ?

Stop playing innocent

We know how Republicans blocked legislation

and how many bills did Reid refuse to allow to come to a vote in the senate? Speaking of blocking legislation------------------

Can you point to a single bill that had the required 60 votes to reach the floor?

You know, the same 60 vote threshold that Dems had to meet

Reid needs votes to bring a bill up for vote ?

I guess I'll need to revisit my civics book.

 

[rightwinger]

You totally duck the issue

It was Republicans who demanded austerity once Obama became President

Ever hear of the Tea Party?

So did my grandmother, but she was not in congress.

Who owned the congress ?

Not the Republicans.

They also demaned that Obamacare get delayed....

How'd that work out for them ?

Stop playing innocent

We know how Republicans blocked legislation

and how many bills did Reid refuse to allow to come to a vote in the senate? Speaking of blocking legislation------------------

Can you point to a single bill that had the required 60 votes to reach the floor?

You know, the same 60 vote threshold that Dems had to meet

Reid needs votes to bring a bill up for vote ?

I guess I'll need to revisit my civics book.

It would probably help you

Try looking up Senate rules related to filibuster and how many votes it takes for cloture

 

[Listening]

So did my grandmother, but she was not in congress.

Who owned the congress ?

Not the Republicans.

They also demaned that Obamacare get delayed....

How'd that work out for them ?

Stop playing innocent

We know how Republicans blocked legislation

and how many bills did Reid refuse to allow to come to a vote in the senate? Speaking of blocking legislation------------------

Can you point to a single bill that had the required 60 votes to reach the floor?

You know, the same 60 vote threshold that Dems had to meet

Reid needs votes to bring a bill up for vote ?

I guess I'll need to revisit my civics book.

It would probably help you

Try looking up Senate rules related to filibuster and how many votes it takes for cloture

Uh, you said 60 votes to reach the floor.

Are you changing your story ?

 

[rightwinger]

Stop playing innocent

We know how Republicans blocked legislation

and how many bills did Reid refuse to allow to come to a vote in the senate? Speaking of blocking legislation------------------

Can you point to a single bill that had the required 60 votes to reach the floor?

You know, the same 60 vote threshold that Dems had to meet

Reid needs votes to bring a bill up for vote ?

I guess I'll need to revisit my civics book.

It would probably help you

Try looking up Senate rules related to filibuster and how many votes it takes for cloture

Uh, you said 60 votes to reach the floor.

Are you changing your story ?

You really need to pull out that civics book and look up cloture

 

[Listening]

and how many bills did Reid refuse to allow to come to a vote in the senate? Speaking of blocking legislation------------------

Can you point to a single bill that had the required 60 votes to reach the floor?

You know, the same 60 vote threshold that Dems had to meet

Reid needs votes to bring a bill up for vote ?

I guess I'll need to revisit my civics book.

It would probably help you

Try looking up Senate rules related to filibuster and how many votes it takes for cloture

Uh, you said 60 votes to reach the floor.

Are you changing your story ?

You really need to pull out that civics book and look up cloture

Answer the question asswipe.

Do you need 60 votes to bring a bill to the floor of the senate for debate ?

 

[rightwinger]

Can you point to a single bill that had the required 60 votes to reach the floor?

You know, the same 60 vote threshold that Dems had to meet

Reid needs votes to bring a bill up for vote ?

I guess I'll need to revisit my civics book.

It would probably help you

Try looking up Senate rules related to filibuster and how many votes it takes for cloture

Uh, you said 60 votes to reach the floor.

Are you changing your story ?

You really need to pull out that civics book and look up cloture

Answer the question asswipe.

Do you need 60 votes to bring a bill to the floor of the senate for debate ?

Look, we know Republicans love to tie up Congress passing useless kill Obamacare bills. But in the Senate, a bill needs 60 votes for cloture. A bill without 60 votes does not reach the floor
It used to be routine for all bills to come to the floor but Republicans changed that when they demanded all legislation meet that threshold

If Republicans had let Democratic bills come up for a vote, you can be sure Reid would have done the same

 

[Listening]

Take your ADD meds......

We are talking about your assertion that Republicans were somehow "demanding" something when they were in the minority.

But...to your post....

How the fuck did you come up with that assumption ? You really think that congress can crash (or save) and economy ?

You totally duck the issue

It was Republicans who demanded austerity once Obama became President

Ever hear of the Tea Party?

So did my grandmother, but she was not in congress.

Who owned the congress ?

Not the Republicans.

They also demaned that Obamacare get delayed....

How'd that work out for them ?

Stop playing innocent

We know how Republicans blocked legislation

and how many bills did Reid refuse to allow to come to a vote in the senate? Speaking of blocking legislation------------------

Can you point to a single bill that had the required 60 votes to reach the floor?

You know, the same 60 vote threshold that Dems had to meet

 

[zeke]

Can't any of you right wingers on here use Goggle? It really would help you all a lot if you could.



Senate Rule XXII, often called the cloture rule, does allow a supermajority to limit debate on a bill, amendment, or motion; in addition, in the case of a bill, cloture limits the amendments that can be offered. Supporters of, for instance, a bill under floor consideration can file a cloture motion, signed by at least 16 Senators. Two days of session later, Senators vote on the cloture motion. If three-fifths – usually 60 Senators – agree, then further consideration of the bill is limited to 30 hours, during which only amendments from a pre-specified list of germane ones can be offered. After this final period of consideration, the Senate will take a final vote on the bill. This final vote requires only a simple majority for approval. But because a cloture process is often required to end debate on a bill, then the bill first must garner the support of a three-fifths supermajority. All told, this process of reaching a final vote on a bill can require about a week of Senate floor time to complete.

 

[Listening]

Can't any of you right wingers on here use Goggle? It really would help you all a lot if you could.



Senate Rule XXII, often called the cloture rule, does allow a supermajority to limit debate on a bill, amendment, or motion; in addition, in the case of a bill, cloture limits the amendments that can be offered. Supporters of, for instance, a bill under floor consideration can file a cloture motion, signed by at least 16 Senators. Two days of session later, Senators vote on the cloture motion. If three-fifths – usually 60 Senators – agree, then further consideration of the bill is limited to 30 hours, during which only amendments from a pre-specified list of germane ones can be offered. After this final period of consideration, the Senate will take a final vote on the bill. This final vote requires only a simple majority for approval. But because a cloture process is often required to end debate on a bill, then the bill first must garner the support of a three-fifths supermajority. All told, this process of reaching a final vote on a bill can require about a week of Senate floor time to complete.

We are talking about how a bill "reaches the senate floor".

Maybe I am misunderstanding this......

It was always my understanding that a bill reached the floor when it came out of committee.

It was then debated.

 

[zeke]

From Congress.gov.


To consider a bill on the floor, the Senate first must agree to bring it up – typically by agreeing to a unanimous consent request or by voting to adopt a motion to proceed to the bill, as discussed earlier. Only once the Senate has agreed to consider a bill may Senators propose amendments to it.

Perhaps the modern Senate’s defining feature is the potential difficulty of reaching a final vote on a matter. Most questions that the Senate considers – from a motion to proceed to a bill, to each amendment, to the bill itself – are not subject to any debate limit. Simply put, Senate rules provide no way for a simple numerical majority to cut off or otherwise impose a debate limit and move to a final vote. As a result, Senators can effectively wage (or threaten to wage) a filibuster – in effect, insist on extended debate in order to delay or prevent a final vote on most amendments, bills, or other motions.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Statutory corporate tax rate in US is 39.1%.

What you're showing is average rate that gives impression all corporations pays that rate, but in reality some corporations are paying full rate, some are paying nothing, depending on tax breaks given by the government.

Statutory reflects the rate befrore corporations get all those exemptions and tax loopholes they paid politicians for. We all know they don't pay at the statutory rate

Yes... OKA: Legal deductions. There are no such things as tax-loopholes. That is a deceitful word which is applied fraudulently as a means to influence the ignorant, in order to lead to them to believe that such is somehow underhanded, untoward or somehow taking something that otherwise doesn't belong to them, such as the money being confiscated through the rationalization of "Taxation".

In terms of tax loopholes, corporations get what they pay for
Now with Citizens United and greater relaxation of allowable corporate donations we can be sure that effective corporate tax rate will drop even further

I don't think donations are problem. Corrupted politicians are.

The problem is a system that allows for politicians to be bought off by pretty much anyone who wants to buy them off.

A system that distorts legislation because legislators desperately want donations.

Change the system, change the behaviors.

Don't change the system, the behaviors continue.

.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken