What Happened to Church?

[BasicHumanUnit]

Maybe so... But there is a reason that the envelopes have names on them, and it ain't to tally "heaven points"....

Let me put this another way.....
Don't blame Christians because your parents were too dumb to realize a shyster was running the church they chose.
Were they forced to attend that particular church?

I once attended Temple in a posh upscale community (with a Jew I knew).....where you sit depends on your donation history....your place in Temple is decided by your last check. So in that Temple, your place in heaven determined by how much you tithed?....screw that. That's $$$ worship. Not at all what Christianity is about.

 

[Taz]

Taz denying the evidence of the story themselves that Jesus ran around with women

That's not accurate. He did not deny the evidence that jesus was in the company of women, or even prostitutes. He denied that as evidence that jesus was not gay.

If thats not acceptable evidence where is any evidence to the contrary?

We had a gay guy in our circle of friends. His boyfriend like to hang around more with our girlfriends, even though he was gay. Maybe it was similar to Jesus' story.

 

[hobelim]

Taz denying the evidence of the story themselves that Jesus ran around with women

That's not accurate. He did not deny the evidence that jesus was in the company of women, or even prostitutes. He denied that as evidence that jesus was not gay.

If thats not acceptable evidence where is any evidence to the contrary?

Of course it isnt acceptable evidence. Plenty of gay men have plenty of female friends, prostitutes too, im sure.

By your own specious reasoning, Jesus keeping the company of many men is evidence that he is gay. So I think you need to refine your arguments.

Whats specious about it? He wasn't a "known sinner" for being gay or having female friends but for keeping company with prostitutes which was just a polite way of them saying that he was having sex with prostitutes clearly identified as women...

There was nothing sexual implied by him also having male friends...Thats just what came out of Taz's mind for whatever reason other than the obvious if you like.

 

[Taz]

Taz denying the evidence of the story themselves that Jesus ran around with women

That's not accurate. He did not deny the evidence that jesus was in the company of women, or even prostitutes. He denied that as evidence that jesus was not gay.

If thats not acceptable evidence where is any evidence to the contrary?

Of course it isnt acceptable evidence. Plenty of gay men have plenty of female friends, prostitutes too, im sure.

By your own specious reasoning, Jesus keeping the company of many men is evidence that he is gay. So I think you need to refine your arguments.

Whats specious about it? He wasn't a "known sinner" for being gay or having female friends but for keeping company with prostitutes which was just a polite was of them saying that he was having sex with prostitutes clearly identified as women...

There was nothing sexual implied by him also having male friends...Thats just what came out of Taz's mind for whatever reason other than the obvious if you like.

Jesus liked to hang around with guys way more than girls. And sorry to burst your bubble, but hanging with woman does not mean that you're having sex with them.

 

[hobelim]

Taz denying the evidence of the story themselves that Jesus ran around with women

That's not accurate. He did not deny the evidence that jesus was in the company of women, or even prostitutes. He denied that as evidence that jesus was not gay.

If thats not acceptable evidence where is any evidence to the contrary?

Of course it isnt acceptable evidence. Plenty of gay men have plenty of female friends, prostitutes too, im sure.

By your own specious reasoning, Jesus keeping the company of many men is evidence that he is gay. So I think you need to refine your arguments.

Whats specious about it? He wasn't a "known sinner" for being gay or having female friends but for keeping company with prostitutes which was just a polite was of them saying that he was having sex with prostitutes clearly identified as women...

There was nothing sexual implied by him also having male friends...Thats just what came out of Taz's mind for whatever reason other than the obvious if you like.

Jesus liked to hang around with guys way more than girls. And sorry to burst your bubble, but hanging with woman does not mean that you're having sex with them.

Sure Taz, Go to the other side of the tracks and find yourself a prostitute who will spend a lot of time with you for free. Like she wouldn't tell you to fuck off. Did you ever pay to keep company with a prostitute and not have sex? lol

Do you think that Jesus was running amok in roman towns not doing what the romans were doing? What do you think? He was praying for them while secretly having gay sex,(not that there's anything wrong with that)? lol



Take it easy Taz. Even after Jesus repented and rose from the dead and began to bodily ascend into heaven he didn't stop partying with sinners and prostitutes and keeping company with all sorts of bad characters.....

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Were they forced to attend that particular church

No, as evidenced by the fact that they stopped attending, after the harrassment went on too long.

Not at all what Christianity is about.

....to you.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

but for keeping company with prostitutes which was just a polite way of them saying that he was having sex with

Says you. This is just you reiterating your claim and confusing yourself into thinking that doing so is somehow support for your claim.

There was nothing sexual implied by him also having male friends..

Says you, again. Let's try to remember that this was the bronze age, not 2018. Male prostitutes were out to death, as weree gay men. So, to defer to the nomenclature of tge bronze age is not a good argument.

 

[hobelim]

but for keeping company with prostitutes which was just a polite way of them saying that he was having sex with

Says you. This is just you reiterating your claim and confusing yourself into thinking that doing so is somehow support for your claim.

There was nothing sexual implied by him also having male friends..

Says you, again. Let's try to remember that this was the bronze age, not 2018. Male prostitutes were out to death, as weree gay men. So, to defer to the nomenclature of tge bronze age is not a good argument.

Apparently you know nothing much about Jewish culture especially of that time period. . Sexual subjects are only alluded to in scripture and in orthodox or observant communities through euphemisms if ever..

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

through euphemisms if ever..

"If ever" would definitely apply to homosexuality activity, punishable by death. Certainly a book of reverance of the conman Jesus would omit such direct references. Ya kind of made my point, thanks

 

[Taz]

That's not accurate. He did not deny the evidence that jesus was in the company of women, or even prostitutes. He denied that as evidence that jesus was not gay.

If thats not acceptable evidence where is any evidence to the contrary?

Of course it isnt acceptable evidence. Plenty of gay men have plenty of female friends, prostitutes too, im sure.

By your own specious reasoning, Jesus keeping the company of many men is evidence that he is gay. So I think you need to refine your arguments.

Whats specious about it? He wasn't a "known sinner" for being gay or having female friends but for keeping company with prostitutes which was just a polite was of them saying that he was having sex with prostitutes clearly identified as women...

There was nothing sexual implied by him also having male friends...Thats just what came out of Taz's mind for whatever reason other than the obvious if you like.

Jesus liked to hang around with guys way more than girls. And sorry to burst your bubble, but hanging with woman does not mean that you're having sex with them.

Sure Taz, Go to the other side of the tracks and find yourself a prostitute who will spend a lot of time with you for free. Like she wouldn't tell you to fuck off. Did you ever pay to keep company with a prostitute and not have sex? lol

Do you think that Jesus was running amok in roman towns not doing what the romans were doing? What do you think? He was praying for them while secretly having gay sex,(not that there's anything wrong with that)? lol



Take it easy Taz. Even after Jesus repented and rose from the dead and began to bodily ascend into heaven he didn't stop partying with sinners and prostitutes and keeping company with all sorts of bad characters.....

I've hung with girls that I knew were pros, but I never had sex with them. And Jesus wasn't paying the pros, he had no money.

 

[hobelim]

through euphemisms if ever..

"If ever" would definitely apply to homosexuality activity, punishable by death. Certainly a book of reverance of the conman Jesus would omit such direct references. Ya kind of made my point, thanks

Jesus was running around in roman settlements beyond the jurisdiction of Jewish law. He obviously didn't care about them knowing he was a sinner. They could have legally stoned him to death just about every time he opened his mouth. Why would he care about that? Hashev says that Jesus was getting head from the woman at the well,. Who can say? But if he was possibly doing that in public why would he care if it was known that was gay... if he was gay?

holds no water.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

through euphemisms if ever..

"If ever" would definitely apply to homosexuality activity, punishable by death. Certainly a book of reverance of the conman Jesus would omit such direct references. Ya kind of made my point, thanks

Jesus was running around in roman settlements beyond the jurisdiction of Jewish law. He obviously didn't care about them knowing he was a sinner. They could have legally stoned him to death just about every time he opened his mouth. Why would he care about that?

holds no water.

Again, you support the argument that it cannot be ruled out that he was gay, and that mentioning he kept the company of women is no stronger an argument against his homosexuality than is saying that he kept the company of men is an argument against his heterosexuality.

 

[hobelim]

through euphemisms if ever..

"If ever" would definitely apply to homosexuality activity, punishable by death. Certainly a book of reverance of the conman Jesus would omit such direct references. Ya kind of made my point, thanks

Jesus was running around in roman settlements beyond the jurisdiction of Jewish law. He obviously didn't care about them knowing he was a sinner. They could have legally stoned him to death just about every time he opened his mouth. Why would he care about that?

holds no water.

Again, you support the argument that it cannot be ruled out that he was gay, and that mentioning he kept the company of women is no stronger an argument against his homosexuality than is saying that he kept the company of men is an argument against his heterosexuality.

I am not ruling out that he was gay or bisexual or asexual. I am showing that the evidence presented by the story itself suggests that he was most likely just a plain old boring heterosexual man, who couldn't take a leak without everyone knowing about it, and never condemned anyone for their sexuality.

If his enemies, who were trying their best to discredit him daily, had even the slightest suspicion that Jesus was secretly gay they would have been shouting it from the rooftops.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Again, you support the argument that it cannot be ruled out that he was gay, and that mentioning he kept the company of women is no stronger an argument against his homosexuality than is saying that he kept the company of men is an argument against his heterosexuality.

Why do you want so badly to paint Christianity as a farce and Jesus a homo?
If you were molested by a priest, don't blame all Christians, blame the sick person who did that to you.

I dunno....

You just seem bent on believing Jesus was gay and at the same time liked female prostitutes?
I'm wondering what's wrong with YOU?

Do you carry this same disdain for Allah & Muhammad or is it JUST Christianity?

 

[SweetSue92]

(Continued.)

Sorry I've been too busy to finish this.

When I met my husband, I had a boyfriend. He was planning to visit a new RPG group one night at a game store near my house, and I decided on a whim to go with him. We all sat down around this big conference table, and down at the end, next to the GM, was this handsome Chinese man. When I looked at him, all the sound in the room just vanished, and I heard a Voice, as clear as if someone had shouted it in my ear, saying, "That's him. That's the man you're going to marry." I went home and broke up with my boyfriend that same evening. Two months later, almost to the day, my husband and I got married. Literally everyone I knew, including other Christians, thought I was completely insane. But 23 years, 3 kids, and 4 grandchildren later, we're still married, and still making people say, "You're so perfect together. I wish my marriage was like yours."

Joe and I actually eloped one weekend on the spur of the moment. Because Arizona doesn't have any sort of waiting period for getting married, we didn't have to leave town to do it. So we got the license and rings, gathered our families at the church, and did it. Because we both lived at our parents' houses at the time (we were both taking care of extremely sick parents), we didn't want to spend our wedding night at either place. So we reserved a room at a local hotel. Afterward, his mom took everyone out for dinner, and it ended up running late. When we got to the hotel, we found out that they had given our room to someone else. Then we found out that we had gotten married on the same weekend that both the rodeo and the Gem and Mineral Show were in town. Every hotel room in the city was booked up.

So there we are, at 10 pm on our wedding night, driving around looking for a place to stay and being turned away everywhere. Hoo boy. We're both tired and emotionally overwrought, and now we're having our first fight of our marriage. Finally, I told him to pull the car over. He did so, reluctantly, and asked what I was going to do. I think he thought I was going to get out of the car and storm away or something, but I told him that I was going to pray about it. Okay, now my new husband is looking at me like, "Oh, God, I married a lunatic." But he kept quiet, and I prayed. Then I told him to stop at the very next place, which would normally have been out of our price range.

We went in, told the desk clerk that we had just gotten married, and we needed some place, any place, to stay that night. The desk clerk said, "Well, I just got off the phone with a cancellation, so I could let you have his room. But I don't think you'll want it, because it's not a standard room. It's handicapped. So I can give you a discount on it if you don't mind that."

All the way up to the room, Joe didn't say a word, but he just kept looking at me like I had grown another head or something. I said, "What?" And he burst out, "How did you DO that?"

Throughout our marriage, I've made a practice of praying for help and guidance whenever things seemed unsolvable. Although Joe officially converted to my faith ten months after we married, he wasn't raised to believe in a relationship with God that was quite THAT personal and direct, and I suspect he's never entirely lost the notion that I'm nuts, but he always goes along with whatever I tell him God has said, no matter how unlikely it seems, and it's always right. We moved to Phoenix last year that way, even though it was a huge and risky leap of faith, and our lives have improved immeasurably.

Two weeks ago, I prayed for help and guidance, because our financial situation was stuck at a dead stop, and there didn't seem to be any way clear. We were both working two jobs to make ends meet, my day job was at a standstill, and his day job required a horribly long commute that was exhausting him. After I prayed, my boss suddenly decided that I needed to be offered a generous raise, and I told Joe that the time was right for him to quit his day job and go full-time with his second job, which is working from home as a legal transcriptionist, even though my salary alone - even with the raise - is not enough to support us. He was very leery of the whole thing, but he did it. The next day, he was assigned the largest job he's ever been given, which more than replaces his previous salary for the same period of work.

Like I said, God has never had to smack me to the ground with a road-to-Damascus moment, because I've never really fought against believing in Him in the first place.

Beautiful testimony. Thank you for sharing it. Hubby and I hit 24 years later this month!!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Why do you want so badly to paint Christianity as a farce and Jesus a homo?

I don't, really. I am saying that we don't really know, and I also don'tt thik the fact that he kept the company of women is evidence that he isn't, or that he had sex with those women. It's just a discussion dude. If this is too much to bear, then maybe hanging around on a public forum is not a good hobby for you.


Allah and the conman Mohammed? Religious nonsense. thanks for asking.

 

[Taz]

through euphemisms if ever..

"If ever" would definitely apply to homosexuality activity, punishable by death. Certainly a book of reverance of the conman Jesus would omit such direct references. Ya kind of made my point, thanks

Jesus was running around in roman settlements beyond the jurisdiction of Jewish law. He obviously didn't care about them knowing he was a sinner. They could have legally stoned him to death just about every time he opened his mouth. Why would he care about that? Hashev says that Jesus was getting head from the woman at the well,. Who can say? But if he was possibly doing that in public why would he care if it was known that was gay... if he was gay?

holds no water.

He was probably getting sucked off by a guy at the well.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

I don't, really. I am saying that we don't really know, and I also don'tt thik the fact that he kept the company of women is evidence that he isn't, or that he had sex with those women. It's just a discussion dude. If this is too much to bear, then maybe hanging around on a public forum is not a good hobby for you.

Allah and the conman Mohammed? Religious nonsense. thanks for asking.

Well, at least you seem to be an equal opportunity insulter.

If you are gay then it's more understandable.

 

[DOTR]

Put a label on it so you can safely tuck it away.

And you are free to present evidence to counter it, instead of complaining. I have mountains of emipirical evidence demostrating the phenomena of the malleability of the human psyche, including hallucinations, false memories, optical illusions, and delusions, and flat out lying.

And what do you have? Some youtube videos stating that the other youtube videos you have are "spot on"?

I don't cite YouTube videos, so no. The point is, man's ability to deny his own experience is virtually limitless. Witness Holocaust deniers, for example. A horrific event that happened within the lifetimes of many, compete with photographic and forensic evidence, yet some swear it didn't happen. And if they do it now, what do you think discussing it will be like in two thousand years? Some accepting what happened and sceptics demanding endless evidence that they simply deny, then demanding more.

The same happened with Jesus' resurrection. Within the first generation, sceptics denied it, while the witnesses spoke of what they saw. That's why I say God doesn't do the "do a trick" stuff, because that's not going to satisfy a human sceptic who will deny even his own experience.

The evidence is the lives changed.

Christianity spread like wildfire in those first centuries. And it spread by the testimony of eyewitnesses. Over and over the Apostles said “don’t take our word for it...ask the hundreds who saw it. “ And it worked.

It is the ironic secret of Christianity that the world doesn't understand it or how Christians think, and so when they want to stamp it out, they go with a frontal attack, which is actually guaranteed to make it spread and strengthen people's faith. The Romans found that out, as did the Nazis and the Communists in the 20th century. If you really want to do away with Christianity, you make the Christians fat and happy and comfortable. You NEVER make them feel like they're oppressed.

It’s always the way. The Romans decided to wipe it out and ended up capitulating to it. The Communists spent over 70 years trying to eradicate invtge eastern block but the Church was left when communism collapsed.

 

[hadit]

Eh. No church is perfect, I can tell you that. But generally Americans have a romanticized view of Amish and Mennonites. In reality, they can be quite legalistic. The Mennonites less so, but the Amish very much so. I mean these are people who "shun" their own family if they don't live up to their legalistic lifestyle, such things as wearing the right clothing. For compare and contrast, I am an evangelical Christian who is opposed to gay marriage and yet have come nowhere NEAR to "shunning" the gay members of both sides of my family, me and my husband's.

But people are easily swayed. Make some nice furniture, cook some nice pies, wear a cap on your head I guess, there it is.

Humans like rules, oddly enough. I've always believed that there are Ten Commandments because people want rules to follow and parse and play legalistic games with. Jesus said that the most important Commandments were to love the Lord your God and to love your neighbor as yourself, because if you are truly doing both those things, all the other stuff will follow naturally without you having to be told. But actually BEING a good person and loving God and others is difficult, where following nitpicky rules without ever having to improve yourself as a person is much easier.

So, do you love your Messikin neighbours?

Why wouldn't I? I've lived surrounded by Mexicans my entire life. My favorite niece-in-law is Mexican. They're just people, same as everyone else.

Don't you just love how the haters try desperately to find something they think defines Christians and then demand to see how you're doing it?

I bet YOU hate Messikins.

And the baiting continues.