What happens if the individual mandate is eliminated?

[conserveguy877]

A better question is : How can a car accident be capable of generating a $200,000 hospital bill? Why are we, the patients, disconnected from the actual cost of medical services? If your car breaks down, you know exactly what it costs to replace the tires, transmission, etc....but with health care it's all a fucking mystery? No, it's a corrupt system thanks to government intervention.

Taxes?

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Amazing how many people don't understand the concept of "self-insuring" a risk. If you CHOOSE not to get insurance that you could afford to pay for, then you are SELF-INSURING that risk. You assume financial liability for your medical expenses, on the hope and expectation that the costs will be tolerable.

For MOST healthy young adults, this is a viable, smart option.

For another example of "self-insurance," consider personal liability insurance. We all carry auto liability and there is a liability component to Homeowner's insurance, but if something comes up when you are SUED for reasons that are not covered by the aforesaid (sued for assault & battery, negligence, slander, etc), you probably have no insurance for that risk. MOST PEOPLE SELF-INSURE THIS RISK.

Keep in mind that the "Individual Mandate" was CREATED for one purpose, and one purpose only: To generate enough PROFIT for health insurance companies to compensate them for having to cover the infamous "pre-existing conditions," and for not being able to charge higher premiums to old, decrepit people.

No one ever said that it is smart for young, healthy people to spend their money on health insurance. They can self-insure that risk and spend the money on a better cell phone.

What you seem not to understand whatsoever is that they are NOT, in fact, fully "self insuring" when they choose not to carry health insurance. In what the rest of us call "reality", the cost of their indigenous care and bankruptcies is paid by the rest of us.

What they are actually doing is using a inferior, poorly planned form of public insurance with inflated costs and a poorly managed set of actuarial tables.

So your entire rant is total garbage.

Because fucks like you want FREE stuff instead of being responsible adults and either working or having enough money to cover a cost. You're a shit..

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Because fucks like you want FREE stuff instead of being responsible adults and either working or having enough money to cover a cost.

What does that have to do with your stupid comments that were abjectly ignorant of the current state of our laws? Nothing.


No, sorry crybaby. With public insurance, I will be one of the people paying a bit more than people like you. But, no doubt, still less than what I and my employer pay together right now.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

What happens if the individual mandate in Obama care is eliminated by the Supreme Court or Trump?

Anyone can decide to not buy health insurance.

If an individual decides to not buy health insurance.

The person gets in a car accident and ends up with a $200,000 hospital bill, They cannot pay it.

Who pays it?

The best thing to do would be to make people sign a wavier when they turn down health insurance so that anything that happens to them they cannot pay cash for or have the credit for ERs and hospitals can refuse to do to them.

As hard as that sounds, that is what has to happen without an insurance mandate. Many who do not want a mandate do not think about what happens to those who choose to opt out and have a medical cost.
If the patient is treated and does not pay, we all end up paying for it through higher medical costs or taxes.
That is why I support the mandate. It makes dead beats be responsible for themself.

No it doesn't. Essentially, the govt is forcing you to buy a product or pay a fine. The mandate needs to be finished off by the SC.

 

[Flopper]

the hospital can sue them just like any other unpaid debt,,,

and end up with the same amount the started with...nada.

that depends on the person,,,and its better than having the government involved in healthcare

It is the government that forces them to treat people that cannot pay, and that is not going away.

If you want no mandate to work financially.
Those who say no mandate, must also say do not treat the uninsured.
If you say no mandate, you say we cannot treat the uninsured.
Do not use the government as an out.

what if I want to pay cash and not pay a middle man???

Strange as may seen, most hospitals are not that interested in patients without insurance who pay cash. The patient might well be able to afford the $2000 for the simple out patient surgery but if there is complication requiring emergency surgery and hospitalization which creates a bill of $75,000 bill, the patient may not be able to pay. Hospitals have found that cash payers without insurance, usually end up with large bills that the hospital has to write off. This is why they prefer insurance.

Most hospitals will run your credit before admitting you, set up a payment plan, and ask for credit cards because they are going to want money up from. Unlike a purchase at the store, the hospital can't tell you what your hospital stay will cost, maybe $3000 or maybe $300,000. In fact, you probable will not get any estimate.

 

[progressive hunter]

and end up with the same amount the started with...nada.

that depends on the person,,,and its better than having the government involved in healthcare

It is the government that forces them to treat people that cannot pay, and that is not going away.

If you want no mandate to work financially.
Those who say no mandate, must also say do not treat the uninsured.
If you say no mandate, you say we cannot treat the uninsured.
Do not use the government as an out.

what if I want to pay cash and not pay a middle man???

Strange as may seen, most hospitals are not that interested in patients without insurance. You might well be able to afford the $2000 for the simple out patient surgery but if there is complication requiring emergency surgery and hospitalization which creates a bill of $75,000, the patient may not be able to pay. Hospitals have found that cash payers, usually end up with large bills that the hospital has to write off. This is why they prefer insurance.

So most hospitals will run your credit before admitting you, set up a payment plan, and ask for credit cards because they are going to want money up from. Unlike a purchase at the store, the hospital can't tell you what you hospital stay will cost, maybe $3000 or maybe $300,00. In fact, you probable will not get any estimate.

I've had a few occasions where I paid cash and had no problems and one was for the emergency room visit,,I did have a high deductible and when I told them I was paying cash they dropped the price by half


funny thing is that was never a problem before the government got involved,,,

in fact you can directly connect higher prices in med care with government involvement,,,

 

[theHawk]

What happens if the individual mandate in Obama care is eliminated by the Supreme Court or Trump?

Anyone can decide to not buy health insurance.

If an individual decides to not buy health insurance.

The person gets in a car accident and ends up with a $200,000 hospital bill, They cannot pay it.

Who pays it?

The individual mandate was already repealed and upheld in court:

US appeals court rules Obamacare individual mandate unconstitutional, leaves law intact

 

[DGS49]

The Individual Mandate was (it has been withdrawn) totally unconstitutional, because Congress lacks the power to require Americans to purchase health insurance. It is not even a close case.

CJ Roberts created the fiction that the penalty was a "TAX," and since Congress clearly does have the power to tax, it was deemed OK. Representatives of the O'Bama Administration who defended the Mandate before the USSC insisted that it was not a tax.

Which is why Roberts will live in infamy.

 

[ThisIsMe]

What happens if the individual mandate in Obama care is eliminated by the Supreme Court or Trump?

Anyone can decide to not buy health insurance.

If an individual decides to not buy health insurance.

The person gets in a car accident and ends up with a $200,000 hospital bill, They cannot pay it.

Who pays it?

Health insurance coverage is no longer mandatory at the federal level, as of January 1, 2019. Only 5 states still require you to have health insurance coverage to avoid a state tax penalty.

Carrying health insurance, is the right thing to do, even if it's just a catastrophic policy. Most people that don't carry any insurance believe that if they get seriously ill or have an accident they will take out a policy. The problem with this line of reasoning is that if you have a healthcare emergency, there is no time to shop for insurance. It typically takes 30 to 45 days to get coverage and it is not retroactive. When you're in a hospital bed and a doctor tells you that you need cardiac surgery now, are you going tell him, it will have to wait a month or so till I get some insurance. Not a good idea.

If you don't have insurance and you got to the doctor, you will pay unbelievable prices. If you have insurance and you have not meet your deductible, you pay the healthcare provider the health insurance company contracted rate, say a $1,000 but if you have no insurance, you will be bill at the top rate, say $5,000. There is a big advantage in having insurance even if you have not met your deductible.

Actually, I think the real scenario is the exact opposite. You generally pay lower prices if you pay in cash.

Allow me to explain. About 2 years ago, i was on the phone with a medical supply company ordering a few things for myself. When she gave me the total, it came to about $298. Curious, I asked what the price would be if I just paid in cash, and she said about $152. Naturally, I asked why the difference.

She went on to explain that insurance companies generally dont bargain with medical supply companies. The insurance basically has a lost if what they will pay for a given item or service. It doesnt matter if the actual cost of that item is far less, the insurance company will still pay their price. So, this is why you have things like tylenol that costs $300 per pill. The actual pill probably only costs a few cents, but the insurance has it priced that they will pay a certain price for it, and they will pay no more....or no less.


This was the explanation this lady was giving me, and now it makes sense. It's the insurance companies that are making hospital visits so expensive. The insurance companies will pay outrageous fees to the hospital and doctors, but they recoup the cost in the extravagant premiums they charge to their members.

 

[ElmerMudd]

What happens if the individual mandate in Obama care is eliminated by the Supreme Court or Trump?

Anyone can decide to not buy health insurance.

If an individual decides to not buy health insurance.

The person gets in a car accident and ends up with a $200,000 hospital bill, They cannot pay it.

Who pays it?

The best thing to do would be to make people sign a wavier when they turn down health insurance so that anything that happens to them they cannot pay cash for or have the credit for ERs and hospitals can refuse to do to them.

As hard as that sounds, that is what has to happen without an insurance mandate. Many who do not want a mandate do not think about what happens to those who choose to opt out and have a medical cost.
If the patient is treated and does not pay, we all end up paying for it through higher medical costs or taxes.
That is why I support the mandate. It makes dead beats be responsible for themself.

It makes dead beats be responsible for themself.

Talk about a fucking hypocrite. You force people to pay for coverage, but want to give lazy fucks money to do nothing....

Who said anything about giving someone money for nothing.

That is a dumbass Trump supporter trying to change the subject.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The Individual Mandate was (it has been withdrawn) totally unconstitutional, because Congress lacks the power to require Americans to purchase health insurance. It is not even a close case.

And yet the supreme Court ruled it constitutional. So, yeah, maybe you're delusional about it not being close?

 

[WillowTree]

Ummm, is this the same mandate that was eliminated months ago

Correct. A bad idea from the start. Biggest mistake of Obama's political career.

But, if the current administration is against the mandate which gets big support from idiots like you.

The administration should announce that anyone who chooses to noty buy insurance and has a medical emergency they cannot pay for the government will not help you. If your emergency is life threatening, you die.

If you make people accountable for themself and to not depend on the government and the governments money, you announce no mandate but no help from the government.

Oh good. Then we need you buy your own food or you die. Be accountable.
Pay your own rent.
Buy your own food.
Pay taxes.

 

[ElmerMudd]

What happens if the individual mandate in Obama care is eliminated by the Supreme Court or Trump?

Anyone can decide to not buy health insurance.

If an individual decides to not buy health insurance.

The person gets in a car accident and ends up with a $200,000 hospital bill, They cannot pay it.

Who pays it?

The best thing to do would be to make people sign a wavier when they turn down health insurance so that anything that happens to them they cannot pay cash for or have the credit for ERs and hospitals can refuse to do to them.

As hard as that sounds, that is what has to happen without an insurance mandate. Many who do not want a mandate do not think about what happens to those who choose to opt out and have a medical cost.
If the patient is treated and does not pay, we all end up paying for it through higher medical costs or taxes.
That is why I support the mandate. It makes dead beats be responsible for themself.

No it doesn't. Essentially, the govt is forcing you to buy a product or pay a fine. The mandate needs to be finished off by the SC.

Great but if there is no mandate I hope you are not a one who expects the government to pick up the costs for those who cannot afford their care.
To be fair, it needs to be announced, no mandate but if you cannot pay, TOUGH, EVEN IF YOU DIE.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Ummm, is this the same mandate that was eliminated months ago

Correct. A bad idea from the start. Biggest mistake of Obama's political career.

But, if the current administration is against the mandate which gets big support from idiots like you.

The administration should announce that anyone who chooses to noty buy insurance and has a medical emergency they cannot pay for the government will not help you. If your emergency is life threatening, you die.

If you make people accountable for themself and to not depend on the government and the governments money, you announce no mandate but no help from the government.

Oh good. Then we need you buy your own food or you die. Be accountable.
Pay your own rent.
Buy your own food.
Pay taxes.

Is not that the basis of a conservative philosophy? Why should the government pay for that?

 

[petro]

What happens if the individual mandate in Obama care is eliminated by the Supreme Court or Trump?

Anyone can decide to not buy health insurance.

If an individual decides to not buy health insurance.

The person gets in a car accident and ends up with a $200,000 hospital bill, They cannot pay it.

Who pays it?

Moron.
There were about 6 self exemptions written in the tax code.
Used them for Obama's entire term and never paid the voluntary fine.
Anyone who paid it is a moron as it was always uninforcable and written as such. If one didn't find the exemptions that is their own stupid fault.

 

[Flopper]

What happens if the individual mandate in Obama care is eliminated by the Supreme Court or Trump?

Anyone can decide to not buy health insurance.

If an individual decides to not buy health insurance.

The person gets in a car accident and ends up with a $200,000 hospital bill, They cannot pay it.

Who pays it?

The best thing to do would be to make people sign a wavier when they turn down health insurance so that anything that happens to them they cannot pay cash for or have the credit for ERs and hospitals can refuse to do to them.

As hard as that sounds, that is what has to happen without an insurance mandate. Many who do not want a mandate do not think about what happens to those who choose to opt out and have a medical cost.
If the patient is treated and does not pay, we all end up paying for it through higher medical costs or taxes.
That is why I support the mandate. It makes dead beats be responsible for themself.

No it doesn't. Essentially, the govt is forcing you to buy a product or pay a fine. The mandate needs to be finished off by the SC.

The CBO estimates the effect of eliminating the mandate will be a drop in the insured by 3 million to 6 million with as much as a 10% increase in premiums in the individual market, and small increase in the group market by 2021. Most people dropping insurance are young singles and couples who will of course take out insurance later when they start a family or become seriously ill. This does hurt those that are responsible and carry insurance throughout their lives, regardless of their current health. What the law should have done is penalize these people when they take out insurance in the future.

 

[Osiris-ODS]

What happens if the individual mandate in Obama care is eliminated by the Supreme Court or Trump?

Anyone can decide to not buy health insurance.

If an individual decides to not buy health insurance.

The person gets in a car accident and ends up with a $200,000 hospital bill, They cannot pay it.

Who pays it?

It's already been declared unconstitutional. Here's the recent Fifth Circuit decision that was issued on December 19th. Read it for yourself.

http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/19/19-10011-CV0.pdf

Side note: The decision was authored by Judge Jennifer Walker Elrod, who is an absolutely brilliant jurist, speaking as someone who has been in her line of fire and fielded her questions on oral argument. I recently had the pleasure of arguing an appeal to the same Fifth Circuit panel the day after the oral argument in the Obamacare appeal. I was extremely impressed with Judge Elrod's command of the law and facts in our appeal (especially the day after oral argument in a huge case) as well as her ability to communicate and articulate her questions so the attorneys knew what issues needed to be addressed. Believe me, that is a rare skill in an appellate judge, as most oral arguments consist of attorneys just reciting their briefs in response to unclear questions, accomplishing very little other than to frustrate the judges. I could see her on the short list for the Supreme Court if Trump gets a second term, or otherwise.

This article, written right after the Obamacare oral argument, has a pretty good analysis of Judge Elrod's role in the Obamacare appeal, and describes how Judge Elrod asked the majority of the questions in the Obamacare oral argument, consistent with my description. I was chatting with some U.S. Marshalls during a break, and they said the place was more packed for the Obamacare oral argument than they'd ever seen it, with the press completely filling up the gallery and overflowing all the way down the hall and even the lobby area downstairs.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

There were about 6 self exemptions written in the tax code.
Used them for Obama's entire term and never paid the voluntary fine.

Haha, you are so completely full of shit.

 

[ReinyDays]

Hey dude, nothing in life is FREE. If you want primary care at the ER better have a job or be able to afford coverage. Thanks to Ed Kennedy he allowed anyone to get services at the ER even if you cant pay, so 20 illegals walk in, get FREE coverage, the rest of US have to pay. Stupid fucks like you want Universal, which means shit services....then you die, that could be a good thing, now that you think about it...

My, my ... a little testy are we? ...

I pay cash for my medical services ... there's an economy there if one lives a healthy lifestyle and are careful about daily business ... that second part comes real natural to me as a career construction worker ... that does mean I don't whimper and cry and pee my pants all the way to the doctor's office whenever I get the sniffles ... maybe not real wise to set my own broken finger, but it worked fine for about 20 years ... also I'm not terrified of death, and have lived a full life, so I'm not jealously protecting every last breathable minute of my life ... the last bit of advice my mother gave me was "being in your 80's SUCKS" ... and she should know ...

Pregnant women and children to age 15 is a different story ... just 150 years ago, the death rate in this group was appalling ... all 17 of Queen Anne's children died ... bearing a child was a life or death struggle ... it's easy to forget that in this day and age ... at age 15 the child is vaxxed up, of sound mind and body, and doesn't deserve one penny of tax payer financed health care ... as you said, just die if you can't afford care, cleanse the gene pool ...

Universal has it's pros and cons ... Free Market has it's pros and cons ... Free Market is cheaper, but requires a more knowledgeable public ... if someone decides to skip expensive lab work, then they better not try and sue the doctor for renal failure later ... and we both know that won't happen ...

The medical industry's deepest and darkest secret is just how often people heal on their own without intervention ... perhaps up to half of all people seeking medical attention do not need to, whatever ails them will pass soon enough ... we had an outbreak of Fifth here many years ago, the hospital set up triage just to send people home, "There's nothing we can do, fetal position for two weeks is all" ... hurt like hell but I was up and about soon enough without spending anything ...

So poo poo to the doctor's office to pull a sliver out ... and don't forget to ask your doctor about ZACKNASTRIUM, today's new treatment for excess ear hair growth, see if it's right for you (side effects include vomiting, bloody stools, pancreatic cancer, twitching eyes, if death occurs, stop taking and contact your doctor right away, see our ad in Stacey's McGee's Knitting Quarterly for full disclosures)

 

[ReinyDays]

Moron.
There were about 6 self exemptions written in the tax code.
Used them for Obama's entire term and never paid the voluntary fine.
Anyone who paid it is a moron as it was always uninforcable and written as such. If one didn't find the exemptions that is their own stupid fault.

See the instructions for IRS form 8965 ... I used exemption A, "unaffordable", no one's ever ask for me to justify that claim ...