What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[9thIDdoc]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

Criminals are separated from their children when they are put in prison...should we let criminals out of prison because they will be separated from their children?

Illegal criminals who have not yet had their hearing are not criminals. They have not been convicted of anything. Bad analogy. Any further justification for this horrible policy?

We didn't do this prior to this new policy unless there was reason to suspect the adults were not the parents. Accommodations can be made and were made to keep families together.

Why is that such a bad thing?

Because illegal aliens should never be allowed back in the general population of the Country. Turning them loose is aiding and abetting an illegal act.

 

[protectionist]

Because Trump and Sessions are animals like you. The Nazis at Nuremburg claimed they were just following orders. That sounds a lot like what you are saying. They should not be locked up.

Sound like maybe YOU should, and I don't mean in a jail.

 

[Auld Phart]

It is puzzling….the political downside to this is so gigantic and these dumbasses do not realize it.



Nobody will listen to that of course. According to EJO, 1 out of 4 American kids is Hispanic. Not illegal aliens, American kids.

When Trump and his gang lock up the adults and forcibly separate their kids, do these conservatives really think that this isn’t going to resonate negatively with the larger Hispanic community? It won’t be pretty for Conservatives going forward.

I'm part of that larger Hispanic community, and all this is resonating the same way with me now, as it did when I heard Trump's speech about Mexico not sending us their best. It got me to vote for him, as it did for Hispanics, and races all across America.

You still don't get it that keeping illegal aliens out, is what we Americans (all of us) want ?

Actually that is not true. Americans overwhelmingly support amnesty for illegals and DACA recipients.

You’re talking to someone with the intelligence of a brick when you respond to him.

There is absolutely no way to justify ripping kids away from their parents. Can you imagine if you’re 6 years old, get shipped away from your parents to God knows where. In the best situation it would scare you to death. If you’re a special needs kid..OMFG. All brought to you by the Trump administration…

All brought to you by the Trump administration…

Really?

He's the one that started it?

The hard and fast policy of ripping a 18 month old from his mother’s arms; no exceptions…yes.

got a link to that 'hard and fast' policy, and when it started?

 

[protectionist]

Illegal criminals who have not yet had their hearing are not criminals. They have not been convicted of anything. Bad analogy. Any further justification for this horrible policy?

We didn't do this prior to this new policy unless there was reason to suspect the adults were not the parents. Accommodations can be made and were made to keep families together.

Why is that such a bad thing?

Because it allows the illegals to escape into the population and succeed in invading America. This was Obama's "catch & release". He just gave them a summons to appear in court.

They ignored it, and went about being illegal aliens in the US, with all the harms of immigration dumped on the American people, and Democrats getting more VOTES.

 

[busybee01]

Where they wete before Sessions decrated this policy.

Before Sessions and Trump started ENFORCING THE LAW, both parents and kids were being allowed to skate, via "catch & release". Illegal aliens being allowed to invade our country in violation of our immigration law.

It doesn't surprise me that a liberal would favor that, with more VOTES for Democrats coming from it. Par for the course.

A liberal to you is anyone to the left of the KKK. The 70 or 80 percent of people who support amnesty are not Democrats. If they are then Republicans are dead.

 

[candycorn]

I'm part of that larger Hispanic community, and all this is resonating the same way with me now, as it did when I heard Trump's speech about Mexico not sending us their best. It got me to vote for him, as it did for Hispanics, and races all across America.

You still don't get it that keeping illegal aliens out, is what we Americans (all of us) want ?

Actually that is not true. Americans overwhelmingly support amnesty for illegals and DACA recipients.

You’re talking to someone with the intelligence of a brick when you respond to him.

There is absolutely no way to justify ripping kids away from their parents. Can you imagine if you’re 6 years old, get shipped away from your parents to God knows where. In the best situation it would scare you to death. If you’re a special needs kid..OMFG. All brought to you by the Trump administration…

All brought to you by the Trump administration…

Really?

He's the one that started it?

The hard and fast policy of ripping a 18 month old from his mother’s arms; no exceptions…yes.

got a link to that 'hard and fast' policy, and when it started?

Sessions announced it the other day. Do some research.

 

[OKTexas]

Actually that is not true. Americans overwhelmingly support amnesty for illegals and DACA recipients.

You’re talking to someone with the intelligence of a brick when you respond to him.

There is absolutely no way to justify ripping kids away from their parents. Can you imagine if you’re 6 years old, get shipped away from your parents to God knows where. In the best situation it would scare you to death. If you’re a special needs kid..OMFG. All brought to you by the Trump administration…

All brought to you by the Trump administration…

Really?

He's the one that started it?

The hard and fast policy of ripping a 18 month old from his mother’s arms; no exceptions…yes.

got a link to that 'hard and fast' policy, and when it started?

Sessions announced it the other day. Do some research.

Court orders release of detained immigrant kids, not parents | Daily Mail Online


.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

No illegal aliens-children or otherwise-should be allowed to stay. Zero tolerance. End of story.

They're not illegal because no court has found them guilty of anything. The question is not whether they should stay or not but whether they should be treated humanely and remain with their parents until the court acts.

Or you can ship their parents off and let them decide if they want to stay or go.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No illegal aliens-children or otherwise-should be allowed to stay. Zero tolerance. End of story.

They're not illegal because no court has found them guilty of anything. The question is not whether they should stay or not but whether they should be treated humanely and remain with their parents until the court acts.

Since they are essentially jailed until that time, like anyone else who is arrested for a crime, you are suggesting that the children ALSO be jailed, to "remain with their parents".

Like everything you say, it's ludicrous and stupid.

First of all nobody is being put in jail. They are being detained. Immigration does not jail people they detain them. The children will not be charged or found guilty of anything. Most of the parents will be charged with unlawful presence, a civil offence with no penalty. The normal procedure is to keep children with their parents. The new procedure is to take the kids away from their parents promising that they will be united with their children if they sign a voluntary deportation agreement which of course denies them due process of law. This is an incredibly stupid move on the part of the Orange Clown which will just turn more people against his policies.

First of all, you can stop stating your half-assed notions of how the system works as fact.

Second of all, Sessions said so in the OP's own quote:

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.

Since this entire conversation is about that quote, it would be nice if you talked about what was actually said.

Third, the quoted article goes on to say this:

Adults charged with illegal entry will be turned over to U.S. marshals and sent directly to federal court. Their children will be transferred to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services, which refers them to relatives in the U.S. or to shelters run by private organizations.

So it's pretty clear that the change in policy under discussion in this thread DOES involve the adults being arrested and in custody, which is not a situation into which the children can accompany them.

Furthermore:

"I want to be clear. DHS does not have a blanket policy on separating families as a deterrent," said Thomas Homan, deputy director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement. "There is no new policy. This has always been the policy. But you will see more prosecutions because of the commitment to zero tolerance" of illegal border entries.

So NOTHING here is what you jackasses are trying to make it out to be. The change is not "ripping children from their parents' arms" JUST for the purpose of separating them as a deterrent. The change is that the adults will not be allowed to lollygag around in the US, waiting for ICE to get around to prosecuting them. Arrest, custody, prosecution, BOOM. Kids gotta go SOMEWHERE in the meantime, now don't they?

Also, let's just clear up a few more points on how the system works, and worked even before this change. Sometimes ICE directly does the arresting, for example in a workplace raid or in the execution of a warrant on the home in the case of being wanted for another crime. But more often, the person is arrested by the Border Patrol or by another law enforcement agency, all of which DO put the person in jail while they contact ICE to find out what ICE wants to do. ICE can ask that agency to detain them for up to 48 hours, which means they DO stay in jail for that time.

In the past, ICE would let people be released with instructions to show up for a hearing, which they would then neglect to do; hence, the new policy of rapid prosecution.

I have no idea what you THOUGHT was actually happening, but it NEVER involved simply stopping people for a quick chat in the desert and then letting them wander away.

 

[busybee01]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

If the parents are arrested, prosecuted, and jailed, what would you LIKE to do with the children? Session is correct that this is exactly what we do with the children of American citizens when they are arrested and jailed.

We do? We don't jail people for jaywalking. Sessions is a animal and a thug.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No illegal aliens-children or otherwise-should be allowed to stay. Zero tolerance. End of story.

They're not illegal because no court has found them guilty of anything. The question is not whether they should stay or not but whether they should be treated humanely and remain with their parents until the court acts.

So you're saying that everybody that crosses that border is legal until ruled upon? I don't think so. Border patrol turns border jumpers around and head home if they find them on the spot.

I believe it depends on where they find them in relation to the border.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Human rights abuses are not a tool used by America.

No, but by using these children as tools, you have already violated their human rights.

Thanks for playing.

The Trump admin is the only one using children as tools, dope. That's the point.
They're using the threat of seperation as a deterrent.

Seems like a logical deterrent, so unless the parent is so negligent as to knowingly bring a child across the border when they know they will be separated, then it is that parents choice to do so. That is exactly what a deterrent is.

Terrorizing children is logical. Only a sick twisted mind would think that. The same minds we saw tried at Nuremburg.

Who has the primary responsibility for those children and their well-being? Wouldn't that be the parents, who decided to bring them along while committing a crime?

 

[busybee01]

...even though 52% of illegals simply overstay their visa? And, of course, although Trumpettes don't believe it, Mexicans actually have mastered the use of ladders and shovels.

Try climbing over a 30 foot wall with a ladder.

Oh, and take your family with you ...

Not a problem. Pull an 18 wheeler up next to the wall, and put a 15 foot ladder on top of it, and a robe ladder on the other side.

You guys don't really think these things through very much, do you?

If they did any thinking at all they wouldn’t be conservatives.

It is puzzling….the political downside to this is so gigantic and these dumbasses do not realize it.



Nobody will listen to that of course. According to EJO, 1 out of 4 American kids is Hispanic. Not illegal aliens, American kids.

When Trump and his gang lock up the adults and forcibly separate their kids, do these conservatives really think that this isn’t going to resonate negatively with the larger Hispanic community? It won’t be pretty for Conservatives going forward.

I like your erroneous assumption that the "Hispanic community", defined as citizens and legal residents, feel a huge amount of identification with and sympathy for people who jump the line and come here illegally. Not everyone is the racist bigot you are, thinking of themselves and others as JUST their racial/ethnic group.

Tell you what: YOU go with your line of coddling and crying over lawbreakers, and we'll go with our line of enforcing the law and protecting the border, and we'll each worry about our own fallout, rather than this faux "This would be best for you, no really" bullshit, as though I really think you're concerned about protecting the GOP.

The GOP needs to be destroyed. That is the only way to save the GOP.

 

[Auld Phart]

Actually that is not true. Americans overwhelmingly support amnesty for illegals and DACA recipients.

You’re talking to someone with the intelligence of a brick when you respond to him.

There is absolutely no way to justify ripping kids away from their parents. Can you imagine if you’re 6 years old, get shipped away from your parents to God knows where. In the best situation it would scare you to death. If you’re a special needs kid..OMFG. All brought to you by the Trump administration…

All brought to you by the Trump administration…

Really?

He's the one that started it?

The hard and fast policy of ripping a 18 month old from his mother’s arms; no exceptions…yes.

got a link to that 'hard and fast' policy, and when it started?

Sessions announced it the other day. Do some research.

It started with Sessions the other day?

and yet the pictures go back months, if not years.

 

[candycorn]

You’re talking to someone with the intelligence of a brick when you respond to him.

There is absolutely no way to justify ripping kids away from their parents. Can you imagine if you’re 6 years old, get shipped away from your parents to God knows where. In the best situation it would scare you to death. If you’re a special needs kid..OMFG. All brought to you by the Trump administration…

All brought to you by the Trump administration…

Really?

He's the one that started it?

The hard and fast policy of ripping a 18 month old from his mother’s arms; no exceptions…yes.

got a link to that 'hard and fast' policy, and when it started?

Sessions announced it the other day. Do some research.

Court orders release of detained immigrant kids, not parents | Daily Mail Online


.

Herr Sessions went on to say:

“If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law,” Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement event in Scottsdale, Ariz. “If you don’t like that, then don’t smuggle children over our border.”

“If you cross this border unlawfully, then we will prosecute you. It’s that simple,” Sessions added, describing the new policy as zero tolerance. “We are dealing with a massive influx of illegal aliens across our Southwest Border. But we’re not going to stand for this.”

Sessions ramped up legal resources at the border recently, sending 35 federal prosecutors and 18 immigration judges to the southwest region to assist with an expected increase in border crossing cases.”

As we all know (and now you’ll see a bunch of conservatives with onset amnesia), the authorities can enforce the law or ignore the law at their discretion most times. Technically, you’re breaking the law if you’re doing 56 in a 55MPH zone. No cop will ticket you for that though. Hell, Presidents use signing statements all the time to sidestep laws created by bills that they just sign. This is a decision the Trump administration is making to ramp up the cruelty because they know it sates their WWE constituency. Or do they really think that an 18 month old poses a threat to national security?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Seems more like unnecessary human rights violations.

So when a cop stops somebody for speeding and DUI, and arrests him, and his kids are separated from him, you'd say this is an "unnecessary human rights violation" ?

And when the drunk driver is incarcerated, where would you suggest the kids go ? Into jail with him ?

You are a moron. The 2 are not comparable. Would you incarcerate someone for jaywalking. What I would expect from a hateful pea brain like you.

Speaking of two things that are not comparable: jaywalking, and sneaking across the border of a foreign country.

SOMEONE here is a moron, but I'm pretty certain it's you.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Yes, a legal claim. Charging them as illegals and seperating families is a punative action against those involved in a legal process for no other reason than to dter future applicants. An unnecessarily harsh policy.

FALSE! It is to deport those who have no legal status to be here, and who are lucky if they aren't imprisoned for violating US Code 8, Section 1325.

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien

Separating the children has nothing to do with deportation procedures. The only reason to do such a inhumane and punitive thing is pure evil. This is the act of criminal regimes like Assad in Syria.

So glad to hear that you were in too much of a hurry to vent your spleen to be bothered to read the article you're "outraged" about. It exists, and that's enough for you to be an "infuriated expert", right?

 

[busybee01]

For your viewing pleasure. These are merely tunnels under one town, Nogales, 30 miles from where I live.

tunnels nogales - Yahoo Image Search Results

We will still patrol, and blow a few up. IDK

Well, now, we do that every down already, and we don't need an 19 billion dollar wall to do it.

What you on the left don't like about the wall is it's something you can't easily reverse or ignore like policy. Once it's up, it's staying up.

Also you on the left dream up of all kinds of ways that lawbreakers will be able to get around the wall as if the Trump administration didn't figure out every single one of those ideas already; as if they didn't have meetings with our experts in the military and border security.

Do you know how much money 19 billion dollars is in our budget? It's one third of what we spend on food stamps in just one year.

You can always blow it up. Once Trump is defeated we can proceed on that course. Just because it doesn't amount to much doesn't mean we should waste money.

 

[Auld Phart]

Really?

He's the one that started it?

The hard and fast policy of ripping a 18 month old from his mother’s arms; no exceptions…yes.

got a link to that 'hard and fast' policy, and when it started?

Sessions announced it the other day. Do some research.

Court orders release of detained immigrant kids, not parents | Daily Mail Online


.

View attachment 196135

Herr Sessions went on to say:

“If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law,” Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement event in Scottsdale, Ariz. “If you don’t like that, then don’t smuggle children over our border.”

“If you cross this border unlawfully, then we will prosecute you. It’s that simple,” Sessions added, describing the new policy as zero tolerance. “We are dealing with a massive influx of illegal aliens across our Southwest Border. But we’re not going to stand for this.”

Sessions ramped up legal resources at the border recently, sending 35 federal prosecutors and 18 immigration judges to the southwest region to assist with an expected increase in border crossing cases.”

As we all know (and now you’ll see a bunch of conservatives with onset amnesia), the authorities can enforce the law or ignore the law at their discretion most times. Technically, you’re breaking the law if you’re doing 56 in a 55MPH zone. No cop will ticket you for that though. Hell, Presidents use signing statements all the time to sidestep laws created by bills that they just sign. This is a decision the Trump administration is making to ramp up the cruelty because they know it sates their WWE constituency. Or do they really think that an 18 month old poses a threat to national security?

and that child will be separated from you as required by law,

Did he make up that law, that day?

or was in in effect earlier?

 

[candycorn]

Try climbing over a 30 foot wall with a ladder.

Oh, and take your family with you ...

Not a problem. Pull an 18 wheeler up next to the wall, and put a 15 foot ladder on top of it, and a robe ladder on the other side.

You guys don't really think these things through very much, do you?

If they did any thinking at all they wouldn’t be conservatives.

It is puzzling….the political downside to this is so gigantic and these dumbasses do not realize it.



Nobody will listen to that of course. According to EJO, 1 out of 4 American kids is Hispanic. Not illegal aliens, American kids.

When Trump and his gang lock up the adults and forcibly separate their kids, do these conservatives really think that this isn’t going to resonate negatively with the larger Hispanic community? It won’t be pretty for Conservatives going forward.

I like your erroneous assumption that the "Hispanic community", defined as citizens and legal residents, feel a huge amount of identification with and sympathy for people who jump the line and come here illegally. Not everyone is the racist bigot you are, thinking of themselves and others as JUST their racial/ethnic group.

Tell you what: YOU go with your line of coddling and crying over lawbreakers, and we'll go with our line of enforcing the law and protecting the border, and we'll each worry about our own fallout, rather than this faux "This would be best for you, no really" bullshit, as though I really think you're concerned about protecting the GOP.

The GOP needs to be destroyed. That is the only way to save the GOP.

Hispanic voters will remember this. Illegal immigration is one thing…the illegals should be deported. There is a process; they should respect the process barring any special circumstances.

Hard and fast policies of ripping kids from their mother’s arms is just a function of a heartless administration.