What Is Heaven or Paradise or the Afterlife?

[Coloradomtnman]

Then why did you ask the question?

To see what people believed. Why, do you have an issue with me asking questions? It seems like it since you asked me why I asked?

Oh does it? Why is that?

If your question was perfectly innocent why isn't mine?

Because in the context of our so-called USMB relationship you and I have butted heads more than a few times, especially over the topic of religion. And the tone of your question isn't innocent, but rather, is defensive.

 

[DiamondDave]

I actually like it much like the small talk lines you use when you meet someone in a social situation

certain questions are nice to get a little insight into someone... a lot you can tell about a question that delves into a belief... a lot moreso than a question that results delves into a memory

 

[Amanda]

To see what people believed. Why, do you have an issue with me asking questions? It seems like it since you asked me why I asked?

Oh does it? Why is that?

If your question was perfectly innocent why isn't mine?

Because in the context of our so-called USMB relationship you and I have butted heads more than a few times, especially over the topic of religion. And the tone of your question isn't innocent, but rather, is defensive.

I didn't think the tone of your OP was innocent but you'll notice I gave a straightforward, no agenda answer. Too bad you can't extend the same courtesy.

I asked my question when you made it clear you already had an answer that worked well for you, that you weren't likely to change. You didn't seem to ask for opinions, you seemed to ask for answers. So, given the context of our so-called USMB relationship I suspected you asked so you could beat people over the head with their beliefs, which, IMO, is not ok. So, again giving you the benefit of the doubt and not jumping to conclusions, I asked you why you had asked. You could have said you were looking for opinions and left it at that, but you got defensive. That is not my fault or problem. I bit my tongue and took you at face value. You might try it sometime.

 

[Anguille]

And I believe that to be reunited with your family, in a world beyond the sickness and death of this one, is a greater Paradise than any god can offer.

Do you still live at home?

 

[Anguille]

What Is Heaven or Paradise or the Afterlife?
I'm still working on trying figure to out what life is all about, nevermind what comes after.

 

[Korimyr the Rat]

Do you still live at home?

I haven't had a home since I was twelve years old. And I haven't lived with my parents since a week after my eighteenth birthday.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

I didn't think the tone of your OP was innocent but you'll notice I gave a straightforward, no agenda answer. Too bad you can't extend the same courtesy.

I asked my question when you made it clear you already had an answer that worked well for you, that you weren't likely to change. You didn't seem to ask for opinions, you seemed to ask for answers. So, given the context of our so-called USMB relationship I suspected you asked so you could beat people over the head with their beliefs, which, IMO, is not ok. So, again giving you the benefit of the doubt and not jumping to conclusions, I asked you why you had asked. You could have said you were looking for opinions and left it at that, but you got defensive. That is not my fault or problem. I bit my tongue and took you at face value. You might try it sometime.

Okay, Amanda, you're going to tell me that Diamond Dave, someone with whom I end up most of the time getting angry communicating, and everyone else on this thread, didn't think there was any "set up" coming if they responded to the OP or that I had some sort of ulterior motive for writing it, no to mention that I didn't have an ulterior motive for asking the questions I did, but you somehow objectively could sense my agenda because the tone didn't seem innocent to you?

But this is supposed to be innocent?:

Then why did you ask the question?

especially considering the dynamics between us? Yeah, okay.

If you don't want your beliefs challenged, don't reply to posts that challenge them. In fact, don't read them, cause we wouldn't want you to accidentally revise your beliefs or opinions in light of new evidence, information, or experiences. That's what these forums are about: debating, arguing, communicating, challengin people's dogmatically held beliefs, and interacting with people of different backgrounds and perspectives which may or may not align well with one's own.

Your perspective and mine don't jibe well, and I have been reading more and more of your posts which are no more than criticisms of mine or attacks against me. This leads me to suspect that you either are so different from me that my very opinions, writing style, and tone are repugnant to you or you just really dislike me for some reason and enjoy looking for and especially finding flaws in the things I write. Either way its too bad because we got along when we first interacted. You're even one of my official USMB 'Friends'.

Sung to the famous Everly Bros. tune:
You've lost that civil feeling...
Whoa-oo, that civil feeling...
You've lost that civil feeling!
Now its gone, gone, gone,
Whoa-oo-whoa-oo-whoa.
D-dah, d-dah, d-dah-dah-dah-dah...

 

[KittenKoder]

My belief: We'll find out when we get there ... i just hope living has some reward afterward, otherwise I want my money back!

 

[American Horse]

I'm an agnostic and so I assume, since there is no evidence of an afterlife, that there isn't one. I think about it a lot, struggle to come to terms with it, but I have come to accept it. That might seem really depressing to you believers out there, and I have to admit that it isn't the most optimistic perspective, but that's life, or that's afterlife I should say. Sometimes I think that I've stumbled upon some idea that logically supports that there is a creator, but as I analyze and think critically about the idea, I find its flaws. But I never stop looking, cause let me tell you, if there is a God and an afterlife, I will be happy as Hell! But I need some proof, that's the catch.

There is no downside to believing, it's a free insurance policy; but there is a downside to not believing if you turn out to have been wrong.

I am not a believer, and I spend zero time thinking about it. I do not pay any attention to posts or threads on the subject, so I don't know what attracted me to this one. I quit the debate as a young man.

I do know that the finest, most honest, most charitable people I have met in my life are believers. I would have preferred having been a believer.

Here are just two stanzas from a poem written by Edward Fitzgerald for those of the Victorian age in Britain who chose to not believe, and instead preferred to devote their lives to "wine and roses" instead of an "afterlife". I keep a small copy version of

The Rubaiyat as a source of personal inspiration....At least there is beauty and elegance in its words

I sent my Soul through the Invisible,
Some letter of that After-life to spell:
And by and by my Soul return'd to me,
And answer'd "I Myself am Heav'n and Hell: "

Heav'n but the Vision of fulfill'd Desire,
And Hell the Shadow of a Soul on fire,
Cast on the Darkness into which Ourselves,
So late emerg'd from, shall so soon expire.

.

 

[Amanda]

I didn't think the tone of your OP was innocent but you'll notice I gave a straightforward, no agenda answer. Too bad you can't extend the same courtesy.

I asked my question when you made it clear you already had an answer that worked well for you, that you weren't likely to change. You didn't seem to ask for opinions, you seemed to ask for answers. So, given the context of our so-called USMB relationship I suspected you asked so you could beat people over the head with their beliefs, which, IMO, is not ok. So, again giving you the benefit of the doubt and not jumping to conclusions, I asked you why you had asked. You could have said you were looking for opinions and left it at that, but you got defensive. That is not my fault or problem. I bit my tongue and took you at face value. You might try it sometime.

Okay, Amanda, you're going to tell me that Diamond Dave, someone with whom I end up most of the time getting angry communicating, and everyone else on this thread, didn't think there was any "set up" coming if they responded to the OP or that I had some sort of ulterior motive for writing it, no to mention that I didn't have an ulterior motive for asking the questions I did, but you somehow objectively could sense my agenda because the tone didn't seem innocent to you?

But this is supposed to be innocent?:

Then why did you ask the question?

especially considering the dynamics between us? Yeah, okay.

If you don't want your beliefs challenged, don't reply to posts that challenge them. In fact, don't read them, cause we wouldn't want you to accidentally revise your beliefs or opinions in light of new evidence, information, or experiences. That's what these forums are about: debating, arguing, communicating, challengin people's dogmatically held beliefs, and interacting with people of different backgrounds and perspectives which may or may not align well with one's own.

Your perspective and mine don't jibe well, and I have been reading more and more of your posts which are no more than criticisms of mine or attacks against me. This leads me to suspect that you either are so different from me that my very opinions, writing style, and tone are repugnant to you or you just really dislike me for some reason and enjoy looking for and especially finding flaws in the things I write. Either way its too bad because we got along when we first interacted. You're even one of my official USMB 'Friends'.

Sung to the famous Everly Bros. tune:
You've lost that civil feeling...
Whoa-oo, that civil feeling...
You've lost that civil feeling!
Now its gone, gone, gone,
Whoa-oo-whoa-oo-whoa.
D-dah, d-dah, d-dah-dah-dah-dah...

I'm really disappointed, CMM. I can openly admit to my bias. I can set that aside and respond without letting that influence me, as I did in this thread. I was straightforward, gave my best answer and didn't inject any pontificating. I took you at face value. It's too bad you can't do the same. I can only hope your little song parody was for you, because I can't recall ever being less than civil to you... I certainly never penned parody lyrics to demean you.

 

[Kalam]

I don't know enough about Islam to know how they perceive Paradise other than the whole 72 or however many virgins thing, and something tells me that's just how the extremists and fundamentalists see it. Kalam?

The Qur'an offers a number of convoluted descriptions of Paradise, which is almost always called Jannah (the "garden") and described as a place of luxuriousness, abundant life, and flowing rivers. In a couple of instances these descriptions are called "parables," leading me to believe that they weren't supposed to be taken literally. This is supported by another verse,

So no soul knows what refreshment of the eyes is hidden for them: a reward for what they did.​

It can be concluded that all descriptions are metaphorical and it's impossible to know or understand what will happen after death. As for the 72 virgins thing, a passage of the Qur'an describes a person's companions in Paradise as pure beings with beautiful eyes. The 72 number comes from a somewhat obscure Sunni hadith collection. That they're female virgins that exist to pleasure men, I think, is a misconception. All people become metaphorically "pure" in death:

Our Lord, make them enter the Gardens of perpetuity, which Thou hast promised them and such of their fathers and their wives and their offspring as are good. Surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise.​

Hell is a (more or less) temporary purifying experience for those who didn't perform a sufficient number of good acts while alive to recompense for their misdeeds. Again, metaphorical. I can't pretend to know what any of it means.

 

[Anguille]

There is no downside to believing, it's a free insurance policy; but there is a downside to not believing if you turn out to have been wrong.

Of course there is a downside to believing, especially if you don't really; if you're just doing it to play it safe. Besides the waste of time and effort that believing requires, it means you miss out on knowing what could be the truth. Who wants to go through life with a warped view of reality?

 

[HUGGY]

I didn't think the tone of your OP was innocent but you'll notice I gave a straightforward, no agenda answer. Too bad you can't extend the same courtesy.

I asked my question when you made it clear you already had an answer that worked well for you, that you weren't likely to change. You didn't seem to ask for opinions, you seemed to ask for answers. So, given the context of our so-called USMB relationship I suspected you asked so you could beat people over the head with their beliefs, which, IMO, is not ok. So, again giving you the benefit of the doubt and not jumping to conclusions, I asked you why you had asked. You could have said you were looking for opinions and left it at that, but you got defensive. That is not my fault or problem. I bit my tongue and took you at face value. You might try it sometime.

Okay, Amanda, you're going to tell me that Diamond Dave, someone with whom I end up most of the time getting angry communicating, and everyone else on this thread, didn't think there was any "set up" coming if they responded to the OP or that I had some sort of ulterior motive for writing it, no to mention that I didn't have an ulterior motive for asking the questions I did, but you somehow objectively could sense my agenda because the tone didn't seem innocent to you?

But this is supposed to be innocent?:

Then why did you ask the question?

especially considering the dynamics between us? Yeah, okay.

If you don't want your beliefs challenged, don't reply to posts that challenge them. In fact, don't read them, cause we wouldn't want you to accidentally revise your beliefs or opinions in light of new evidence, information, or experiences. That's what these forums are about: debating, arguing, communicating, challengin people's dogmatically held beliefs, and interacting with people of different backgrounds and perspectives which may or may not align well with one's own.

Your perspective and mine don't jibe well, and I have been reading more and more of your posts which are no more than criticisms of mine or attacks against me. This leads me to suspect that you either are so different from me that my very opinions, writing style, and tone are repugnant to you or you just really dislike me for some reason and enjoy looking for and especially finding flaws in the things I write. Either way its too bad because we got along when we first interacted. You're even one of my official USMB 'Friends'.

Sung to the famous Everly Bros. tune:
You've lost that civil feeling...
Whoa-oo, that civil feeling...
You've lost that civil feeling!
Now its gone, gone, gone,
Whoa-oo-whoa-oo-whoa.
D-dah, d-dah, d-dah-dah-dah-dah...

I'm really disappointed, CMM. I can openly admit to my bias. I can set that aside and respond without letting that influence me, as I did in this thread. I was straightforward, gave my best answer and didn't inject any pontificating. I took you at face value. It's too bad you can't do the same. I can only hope your little song parody was for you, because I can't recall ever being less than civil to you... I certainly never penned parody lyrics to demean you.

So, given the context of our so-called USMB relationship I suspected you asked so you could beat people over the head with their beliefs, which, IMO, is not ok.

How do you feel about beating the actors of 9/11 on the dome about thier beliefs?
You cannot respect every fucking humans belief system. I know your MSMB character is a ditzy 90210 soundin chick but coooooommmmmon.

 

[dilloduck]

I'm an agnostic and so I assume, since there is no evidence of an afterlife, that there isn't one. I think about it a lot, struggle to come to terms with it, but I have come to accept it. That might seem really depressing to you believers out there, and I have to admit that it isn't the most optimistic perspective, but that's life, or that's afterlife I should say. Sometimes I think that I've stumbled upon some idea that logically supports that there is a creator, but as I analyze and think critically about the idea, I find its flaws. But I never stop looking, cause let me tell you, if there is a God and an afterlife, I will be happy as Hell! But I need some proof, that's the catch.

I've seen movies which depict Heaven and there are a variety of different versions: there's the white-robed winged angels, the clouds, etc.; there's how Heaven was depicted in "What Dreams May Come"; but I am not quite sure how Christians perceive exactly what or how Heaven is.

I don't know enough about Islam to know how they perceive Paradise other than the whole 72 or however many virgins thing, and something tells me that's just how the extremists and fundamentalists see it. Kalam?

Do Jews believe in an afterlife?

Hinduism and Buddhism don't count cause we're, according to their faiths, already there. Though, with Buddhism, one does eventually reach Nirvana (which sounds horrible because I can't stand grunge music).

There are some things which confuse me. I heard that in Heaven you are no longer married. That seems sad to me. Are you still you? Do you still remember your life on Earth, and if you do, do you still feel love for the people you loved when you were alive?
I think the Mormons have the Seven Levels of Heaven, and those whose works merit it, reach the level closest to God. So is that it, one change only? Sunday, Sunday, Sunday! And then the sale ends?

From my perspective, Heaven or Paradise, wouldn't and couldn't be perfect. If I couldn't die, then mountaineering wouldn't be as exciting as it is. I would want to climb the highest mountains ever in Heaven because that would be Heaven for me, but if I fell and I just ended up at the bottom perfecly okay or even just beaten and bloody, that would take the fun out of it. In fact, mountaineering would have little point in Heaven. Yet it is a major part of my personality and has been a big factor in shaping me. What do you do all day in Heaven? And whatever it is, wouldn't it get boring say 10 trillion years down the road when you've done everything? How does God keep it interesting up there? Can you smoke pot in Heaven or get drunk with Jesus, cause that's what I would want to do: party down with Socrates, Hume, Homer, Shakespeare, Jerry Garcia (man), Marilyn Monroe (just cause she's hot!), you know, all the cool cats. Would I get to do that?

As a believer, how much do you live your life so that you will, when you die, go to Heaven or Paradise or wherever you believe your soul or consciousness goes when it leaves your body? How much of a factor does is that in your everyday behavior? How much of a role does that you want to go to Heaven play a role in your beliefs?

Would anyone mind describing or explaining Heaven, or Paradise, and or what Jews believe here? I thought it might make for some interesting conversation...

I think it's like getting into tomorrow.

 

[RodISHI]

Is huggy and coloradoman one in the same person?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You do not need to worry what Heaven looks like, you will not be going there. Only 144000 chosen will ascend to Heaven after Judgement day, as spirits.

The rest of those deemed worthy will be restored to a perfect health in a body and live on a restored Earth ruled by Jesus for God, aided by the 144000. There will be no sickness or disease, no death, no wanting for anything. Peace will envelope the Earth and mankind.

Those found to be evil or to have forsaken God will be permanently put to death. Satan and his evil Angels will also be destroyed for ever.

Those never taught the way will be restored to life and be instructed and given a chance to repent and join God through Jesus.

 

[HUGGY]

You do not need to worry what Heaven looks like, you will not be going there. Only 144000 chosen will ascend to Heaven after Judgement day, as spirits.

The rest of those deemed worthy will be restored to a perfect health in a body and live on a restored Earth ruled by Jesus for God, aided by the 144000. There will be no sickness or disease, no death, no wanting for anything. Peace will envelope the Earth and mankind.

Those found to be evil or to have forsaken God will be permanently put to death. Satan and his evil Angels will also be destroyed for ever.

Those never taught the way will be restored to life and be instructed and given a chance to repent and join God through Jesus.

Whatcha smokin sgt?

 

[Anguille]

The rest of those deemed worthy will be restored to a perfect health in a body and live on a restored Earth ruled by Jesus for God, aided by the 144000. There will be no sickness or disease, no death, no wanting for anything. Peace will envelope the Earth and mankind.

Sounds like Dullsville to me.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You do not need to worry what Heaven looks like, you will not be going there. Only 144000 chosen will ascend to Heaven after Judgement day, as spirits.

The rest of those deemed worthy will be restored to a perfect health in a body and live on a restored Earth ruled by Jesus for God, aided by the 144000. There will be no sickness or disease, no death, no wanting for anything. Peace will envelope the Earth and mankind.

Those found to be evil or to have forsaken God will be permanently put to death. Satan and his evil Angels will also be destroyed for ever.

Those never taught the way will be restored to life and be instructed and given a chance to repent and join God through Jesus.

Whatcha smokin sgt?

I suggest you read the Bible. It is clear as day in there. No One has ascended to heaven except for Jesus. Only 144000 will ascend , no one has gone to heaven yet , they await Judgement day after the final battle, when all the dead will be called forth from their graves to be judged and either granted everlasting life or everlasting death.

 

[dilloduck]

The rest of those deemed worthy will be restored to a perfect health in a body and live on a restored Earth ruled by Jesus for God, aided by the 144000. There will be no sickness or disease, no death, no wanting for anything. Peace will envelope the Earth and mankind.

Sounds like Dullsville to me.

no worries---you can find a loophole.