What is it about Bakers ?

[irosie91]

I don't speak Yiddish-----but am intrigued----I know a tiny bit of
german (required in college-----centuries ago) Where is the
YIDDISH? uhm warum Yiddish?? (???)

Me either, but we all know what a schmuck is.

Your Doc Holiday analogy went over my head, hence the "cryptic yiddish" description / joke.
Restate the moral dilemma you are posing where you think I am on the wrong side of the right thing to do?

the word "schmuck" is slang------I have no idea as to its origin

 

[turzovka]

the word "schmuck" is slang------I have no idea as to its origin

Well how about schlep or schmaltz then?

I guess I was wrong, the Yiddish word is actually shmok, but same connotation.

"Schmuck" in American English is a pejorative term meaning one who is stupid or foolish, or an obnoxious, contemptible or detestable person. The word came into the English language from Yiddish (שמאָק, shmok), where it has similar pejorative meanings, but where its original and literal meaning is penis.[1]

 

[westwall]

Nonsense. Battles were fought against this sort of bigotry back in the day. Sex,race,religion should not mean you dont get served. Its a blindingly simple concept.

Which caused Catholic Charities in many major U.S. cities to stop its foster care and adoption programs permanently (Boston, Chicago, D.C., etc.) A charity that was doing enormous good for countless needy Chicagoans of all religions and races and stripes. But the feds demanded they open up their adoption program to placing children in gay couple's care. Catholic Charities said they could not do that in good conscience and Christian morals so they were forced to close their doors to those services.

Now if the gay movement had a similar conscience, they might have felt bad for all of the good this charity was doing for thousands of needy people, and said "it's ok, we have many other adoptions services at our disposal, allow them to stay open." I do not think that happened.

So a cake is one thing, but to be forced to promote immoral practices or arrangements is quite another. And that surely goes for abortions and / or abortion pills at Catholic hospitals or pharmacies.

I agree with you 100%. There is an enormous gulf between baking a cake and handing out abortion pills however.

I reluctantly agree that the cake matter has far less legal grounds to stand on. But... I think the courts and legislators hae both the authority and a moral conscience of their own where they could make for some allowances. They do it all the time when it benefits their own pals --- such as Nebraska and other states getting a free pass with obamacare. And I could find countless other examples where variances are granted to groups to not be held to certain laws.

So then why should a mom and pop bakery get lambasted with a $150,000 fine over this? Totally agenda driven and too punitive, totally for political favors to the gay movement, and so on. Why are some monuments allowed to stand with Christian connotations but others like a cross 75 miles in the desert honoring veterans forced to be taken down? Or a statue of Jesus at the bottom of the sea 8 miles off the coast of Florida in govt waters placed there as a protection for sailors in treacherous waters ruled by the courts has to be removed, thanks to the "honorable" ACLU? This is insanity and a horrible use of tax payer money and a deliberate selective target, i.e. Christian values that seems to be the season.

I agree that the 150,000 fine was bullshit and completely a political attack. It should also be overturned on appeal as it is clearly an unreasonable punishment which violates the Constitution. However, that doesn't negate the fact that the bakers involved are just simply being stupid. If it were a Jewish bakery and some skinhead came in wanting a cake emblazoned with holocaust symbology i would have no problem siding with the baker in that sort of case.

But refusing to bake a cake because someone is gay is retarded, pure and simple.

 

[IsaacNewton]

A suggestion for the religious types who have bakeries (other than the vomit thing which I am 100% behind).

Bake whatever cake someone wants, then take the money from the sale and put it in the collection plate at your church, synagogue, or mosque so the money and the sale is cleansed by the blood of Christ, or Mohammad, or Yahweh. See if he gives the money back. If he doesn't, I'd say you are in the clear.

 

[turzovka]

Nonsense. Battles were fought against this sort of bigotry back in the day. Sex,race,religion should not mean you dont get served. Its a blindingly simple concept.

Which caused Catholic Charities in many major U.S. cities to stop its foster care and adoption programs permanently (Boston, Chicago, D.C., etc.) A charity that was doing enormous good for countless needy Chicagoans of all religions and races and stripes. But the feds demanded they open up their adoption program to placing children in gay couple's care. Catholic Charities said they could not do that in good conscience and Christian morals so they were forced to close their doors to those services.

Now if the gay movement had a similar conscience, they might have felt bad for all of the good this charity was doing for thousands of needy people, and said "it's ok, we have many other adoptions services at our disposal, allow them to stay open." I do not think that happened.

So a cake is one thing, but to be forced to promote immoral practices or arrangements is quite another. And that surely goes for abortions and / or abortion pills at Catholic hospitals or pharmacies.

I agree with you 100%. There is an enormous gulf between baking a cake and handing out abortion pills however.

I reluctantly agree that the cake matter has far less legal grounds to stand on. But... I think the courts and legislators hae both the authority and a moral conscience of their own where they could make for some allowances. They do it all the time when it benefits their own pals --- such as Nebraska and other states getting a free pass with obamacare. And I could find countless other examples where variances are granted to groups to not be held to certain laws.

So then why should a mom and pop bakery get lambasted with a $150,000 fine over this? Totally agenda driven and too punitive, totally for political favors to the gay movement, and so on. Why are some monuments allowed to stand with Christian connotations but others like a cross 75 miles in the desert honoring veterans forced to be taken down? Or a statue of Jesus at the bottom of the sea 8 miles off the coast of Florida in govt waters placed there as a protection for sailors in treacherous waters ruled by the courts has to be removed, thanks to the "honorable" ACLU? This is insanity and a horrible use of tax payer money and a deliberate selective target, i.e. Christian values that seems to be the season.

I agree that the 150,000 fine was bullshit and completely a political attack. It should also be overturned on appeal as it is clearly an unreasonable punishment which violates the Constitution. However, that doesn't negate the fact that the bakers involved are just simply being stupid. If it were a Jewish bakery and some skinhead came in wanting a cake emblazoned with holocaust symbology i would have no problem siding with the baker in that sort of case.

But refusing to bake a cake because someone is gay is retarded, pure and simple.

Ok, all this time I thought this thread was about a wedding cake with gay love phrases. I did not even realize it was a birthday cake. My total mistake.

But are Christian bakeries and other establishments even protesting serving gay people? By and large the answer is no. So they would bake anyone a cake regardless of their sexual or religious views. It is when they have to do something that is blatantly promoting gay marriage or very graphic gay intimacies where they feel offended morally. That is a big difference, but even in the latter case I realize they have a tough legal position to fight. Even weaker was the Davis girl in Indiana govt agency issuing licenses. My other previous examples were far weightier, imo.

 

[westwall]

Nonsense. Battles were fought against this sort of bigotry back in the day. Sex,race,religion should not mean you dont get served. Its a blindingly simple concept.

Which caused Catholic Charities in many major U.S. cities to stop its foster care and adoption programs permanently (Boston, Chicago, D.C., etc.) A charity that was doing enormous good for countless needy Chicagoans of all religions and races and stripes. But the feds demanded they open up their adoption program to placing children in gay couple's care. Catholic Charities said they could not do that in good conscience and Christian morals so they were forced to close their doors to those services.

Now if the gay movement had a similar conscience, they might have felt bad for all of the good this charity was doing for thousands of needy people, and said "it's ok, we have many other adoptions services at our disposal, allow them to stay open." I do not think that happened.

So a cake is one thing, but to be forced to promote immoral practices or arrangements is quite another. And that surely goes for abortions and / or abortion pills at Catholic hospitals or pharmacies.

I agree with you 100%. There is an enormous gulf between baking a cake and handing out abortion pills however.

I reluctantly agree that the cake matter has far less legal grounds to stand on. But... I think the courts and legislators hae both the authority and a moral conscience of their own where they could make for some allowances. They do it all the time when it benefits their own pals --- such as Nebraska and other states getting a free pass with obamacare. And I could find countless other examples where variances are granted to groups to not be held to certain laws.

So then why should a mom and pop bakery get lambasted with a $150,000 fine over this? Totally agenda driven and too punitive, totally for political favors to the gay movement, and so on. Why are some monuments allowed to stand with Christian connotations but others like a cross 75 miles in the desert honoring veterans forced to be taken down? Or a statue of Jesus at the bottom of the sea 8 miles off the coast of Florida in govt waters placed there as a protection for sailors in treacherous waters ruled by the courts has to be removed, thanks to the "honorable" ACLU? This is insanity and a horrible use of tax payer money and a deliberate selective target, i.e. Christian values that seems to be the season.

I agree that the 150,000 fine was bullshit and completely a political attack. It should also be overturned on appeal as it is clearly an unreasonable punishment which violates the Constitution. However, that doesn't negate the fact that the bakers involved are just simply being stupid. If it were a Jewish bakery and some skinhead came in wanting a cake emblazoned with holocaust symbology i would have no problem siding with the baker in that sort of case.

But refusing to bake a cake because someone is gay is retarded, pure and simple.

Ok, all this time I thought this thread was about a wedding cake with gay love phrases. I did not even realize it was a birthday cake. My total mistake.

But are Christian bakeries and other establishments even protesting serving gay people? By and large the answer is no. So they would bake anyone a cake regardless of their sexual or religious views. It is when they have to do something that is blatantly promoting gay marriage or very graphic gay intimacies where they feel offended morally. That is a big difference, but even in the latter case I realize they have a tough legal position to fight. Even weaker was the Davis girl in Indiana govt agency issuing licenses. My other previous examples were far weightier, imo.

It doesn't matter what the cake is for. It's a cake. It is not a public declaration of gay love nor support for gay marriage. That's the point. It's just a fucking cake.

 

[irosie91]

the word "schmuck" is slang------I have no idea as to its origin

Well how about schlep or schmaltz then?

I guess I was wrong, the Yiddish word is actually shmok, but same connotation.

"Schmuck" in American English is a pejorative term meaning one who is stupid or foolish, or an obnoxious, contemptible or detestable person. The word came into the English language from Yiddish (שמאָק, shmok), where it has similar pejorative meanings, but where its original and literal meaning is penis.[1]

I have no idea what the origin of the Yiddish word ---schmuck (which is actually a better rendering of the Yiddish as presented in actual letters---comes to be---ie better than SHMOK) It is not Hebrew and it is not Aramaic-----I do not know if it is an actual german word----I did not learn it in German 101. I do not know about the origin of schlep or schmaltz is either-------not Hebrew and not Aramaic.
My guess is that schmaltz is a german word

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Ohio bakery refused to make birthday cake for a lesbian

Another bastard bigot. Now Gays cant have birthday cakes.

Get to the back of the fuckin bus.

When it comes to bigotry you certainly can speak from close, personal experience. Idiots all over the world act like idiots. It is stupid I grant you and yet, I am positive that were you a baker you wouldn't bake a cake for a person you despised either based on your posts here.

So get in line with the rest of the bigots. You're all alike.

Yeah man. Tear up the Constitution, burn the law books, disband the courts and police forces, give everyone guns, and let everybody do what ever the fuck they want, when they want, and to who they want to do it to. God bless America!

How does baking a cake imply support for a particular lifestyle that you don't agree with? How does a gay couple personally affect YOU? I get it, gay people freak you out. So what this country was FOUNDED upon the principle that you, as a individual, are free to pursue happiness as well as life, and liberty. DO YOU GET IT YET, MORON!

Excuse the hell out of me. You are addressing ?? Do you not get that I was being
factious and sardonic ?? Be cool bubba.

 

[turzovka]

A suggestion for the religious types who have bakeries (other than the vomit thing which I am 100% behind).

Bake whatever cake someone wants, then take the money from the sale and put it in the collection plate at your church, synagogue, or mosque so the money and the sale is cleansed by the blood of Christ, or Mohammad, or Yahweh. See if he gives the money back. If he doesn't, I'd say you are in the clear.

Boy, I think I would need a little more solid Church authority than yours to take such a risk.

And we don't expect or rely on miracles, but they sometimes just happen.

No doubt if you were cunning counsel during the times of Nero, you would have convinced all those Christian martyrs to recant and show them a spread of all the goodies if they went the easier route bowing to caesar. (so short sighted on your part)

 

[irosie91]

A suggestion for the religious types who have bakeries (other than the vomit thing which I am 100% behind).

Bake whatever cake someone wants, then take the money from the sale and put it in the collection plate at your church, synagogue, or mosque so the money and the sale is cleansed by the blood of Christ, or Mohammad, or Yahweh. See if he gives the money back. If he doesn't, I'd say you are in the clear.

nice reasoning Isaac-------as y approaches infinity (or is it x that went way over to infinity----I think Y)

 

[westwall]

Ohio bakery refused to make birthday cake for a lesbian

Another bastard bigot. Now Gays cant have birthday cakes.

Get to the back of the fuckin bus.

When it comes to bigotry you certainly can speak from close, personal experience. Idiots all over the world act like idiots. It is stupid I grant you and yet, I am positive that were you a baker you wouldn't bake a cake for a person you despised either based on your posts here.

So get in line with the rest of the bigots. You're all alike.

Yeah man. Tear up the Constitution, burn the law books, disband the courts and police forces, give everyone guns, and let everybody do what ever the fuck they want, when they want, and to who they want to do it to. God bless America!

How does baking a cake imply support for a particular lifestyle that you don't agree with? How does a gay couple personally affect YOU? I get it, gay people freak you out. So what this country was FOUNDED upon the principle that you, as a individual, are free to pursue happiness as well as life, and liberty. DO YOU GET IT YET, MORON!

Excuse the hell out of me. You are addressing ?? Do you not get that I was being
factious and sardonic ?? Be cool bubba.

Pardon me. It is hard to infer sarcasm in print.

 

[irosie91]

Ohio bakery refused to make birthday cake for a lesbian

Another bastard bigot. Now Gays cant have birthday cakes.

Get to the back of the fuckin bus.

When it comes to bigotry you certainly can speak from close, personal experience. Idiots all over the world act like idiots. It is stupid I grant you and yet, I am positive that were you a baker you wouldn't bake a cake for a person you despised either based on your posts here.

So get in line with the rest of the bigots. You're all alike.

Yeah man. Tear up the Constitution, burn the law books, disband the courts and police forces, give everyone guns, and let everybody do what ever the fuck they want, when they want, and to who they want to do it to. God bless America!

How does baking a cake imply support for a particular lifestyle that you don't agree with? How does a gay couple personally affect YOU? I get it, gay people freak you out. So what this country was FOUNDED upon the principle that you, as a individual, are free to pursue happiness as well as life, and liberty. DO YOU GET IT YET, MORON!

Excuse the hell out of me. You are addressing ?? Do you not get that I was being
factious and sardonic ?? Be cool bubba.

Pardon me. It is hard to infer sarcasm in print.

that's ok ------it is hard for some people to infer-----you are here to sharpen your INFERENCE skills

 

[jasonnfree]

Ohio bakery refused to make birthday cake for a lesbian

Another bastard bigot. Now Gays cant have birthday cakes.

Get to the back of the fuckin bus.

When it comes to bigotry you certainly can speak from close, personal experience. Idiots all over the world act like idiots. It is stupid I grant you and yet, I am positive that were you a baker you wouldn't bake a cake for a person you despised either based on your posts here.

So get in line with the rest of the bigots. You're all alike.

sheeeehs asked to bake a cake for a person I despise----
would, in my view, BE AN OPPORTUNITY

Lots of luck forcing a food preparer to make your food or bakery or whatever. At best, they'll do a lousy job, at worst, they'll spit in the food or..... Jessie Jackson used to brag about spitting in whitey's food when he used to work in a restaurant.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Which caused Catholic Charities in many major U.S. cities to stop its foster care and adoption programs permanently (Boston, Chicago, D.C., etc.) A charity that was doing enormous good for countless needy Chicagoans of all religions and races and stripes. But the feds demanded they open up their adoption program to placing children in gay couple's care. Catholic Charities said they could not do that in good conscience and Christian morals so they were forced to close their doors to those services.

Just point out a couple of errors, let's use the Boston Catholic Charities since that is at least one that is documented.

First the Feds had nothing to do with it. It was the State.

Secondly, the State didn't say that they couldn't run a private adoption service. What happened was that Catholic Charities of Boston was running adoption services on the taxpayer dime (to the tune of a $1,000,000 per year) and were told if you are going to run your programs as a vendor to the government you can't discriminate. So either end discrimination or end the tax subsidy, your choice. If you are gong to operate as a government vendor, you have to follow government rules.

There are numerous Catholic Agencies in Massachusetts that operate just fine as a private service.


.>>>>

 

[IsaacNewton]

A suggestion for the religious types who have bakeries (other than the vomit thing which I am 100% behind).

Bake whatever cake someone wants, then take the money from the sale and put it in the collection plate at your church, synagogue, or mosque so the money and the sale is cleansed by the blood of Christ, or Mohammad, or Yahweh. See if he gives the money back. If he doesn't, I'd say you are in the clear.

nice reasoning Isaac-------as y approaches infinity (or is it x that went way over to infinity----I think Y)

Well if you don't get the money back, and 'god' knows everything, then wouldn't that mean he accepts where the money came from? Thus accepting the sale?

(now I'm wondering if Christians owned a vomitorium in my new end of empire let's all gorge and vomit utopia, would they not allow certain people to vomit). The slippery slope rears it's chunky head again.

 

[turzovka]

Which caused Catholic Charities in many major U.S. cities to stop its foster care and adoption programs permanently (Boston, Chicago, D.C., etc.) A charity that was doing enormous good for countless needy Chicagoans of all religions and races and stripes. But the feds demanded they open up their adoption program to placing children in gay couple's care. Catholic Charities said they could not do that in good conscience and Christian morals so they were forced to close their doors to those services.

Just point out a couple of errors, let's use the Boston Catholic Charities since that is at least one that is documented.

First the Feds had nothing to do with it. It was the State.

Secondly, the State didn't say that they couldn't run a private adoption service. What happened was that Catholic Charities of Boston was running adoption services on the taxpayer dime (to the tune of a $1,000,000 per year) and were told if you are going to run your programs as a vendor to the government you can't discriminate. So either end discrimination or end the tax subsidy, your choice. If you are gong to operate as a government vendor, you have to follow government rules.

There are numerous Catholic Agencies in Massachusetts that operate just fine as a private service.


.>>>>

Yes, ok, thanks. No, I did not research the details. So you do have a legal point.

Given that, there still are countless precedences where variances are given by state and/or federal authorities where they can be exempt from the strict laws. I mentioned only one with Nebraska, but I can surely come up with many more. (Amish, for example, are exempt from registering for the selective service) In the case of govt subsidized Catholic Charities, I believe they could have done something similar and allowed them to continue with their charity services of foster care and adoption for many thousands of needy couples without forcing them to do it for gay couples as well since gay couples have many other options to have their needs tended to. IMO

 

[JOSweetHeart]

I don't think today anyone gives a flying fuck about gays and the special cakes they want someone to bake for them. Go to the fucking grocery store and buy one. We've got bigger problems to worry about.

Amen to this. Plenty of places make cakes already for customers to buy right there on the selves. When did they become not good enough?

God bless you always!!!

Holly

 

[irosie91]

I don't think today anyone gives a flying fuck about gays and the special cakes they want someone to bake for them. Go to the fucking grocery store and buy one. We've got bigger problems to worry about.

Amen to this. Plenty of places make cakes already for customers to buy right there on the selves. When did they become not good enough?

God bless you always!!!

Holly

it seems to me----unless we know what the GAY GUYS actually wanted on their cakes-------it is impossible to judge
just how EVIL ARE THE REFUSENIK BAKERS

 

[SassyIrishLass]

I don't think today anyone gives a flying fuck about gays and the special cakes they want someone to bake for them. Go to the fucking grocery store and buy one. We've got bigger problems to worry about.

Amen to this. Plenty of places make cakes already for customers to buy right there on the selves. When did they become not good enough?

God bless you always!!!

Holly

It takes away the opportunity to claim victimhood and sue for damages and attention

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

I don't think today anyone gives a flying fuck about gays and the special cakes they want someone to bake for them. Go to the fucking grocery store and buy one. We've got bigger problems to worry about.

Amen to this. Plenty of places make cakes already for customers to buy right there on the selves. When did they become not good enough?

God bless you always!!!

Holly

It's not good enough because if you want a special cake from a reputable baker, instead of a mass produced, week old cake off of the shelf of a chain grocery you can waltz in and order it. And, you can do it without fear of being demeaned, humiliated and embarrassed.