Zone1 What is the difference between a Shaman and a Prophet ? What are the similarities? Or could it just be more elusive religious discrimination ?

[Carl in Michigan]

Btw, Abraham KNEW this God. His grandson Jacob WRESTLED with the One who was born, Jesus. But Moses knew Him on a much more personal level

 

[jwoodie]

I remember, they learned of monotheism from the pharaoh Akhenaton. Before that time they were still practicing Yahwism with that horde of Semitic gods.

 

[Stann]

An atheist can't accept that God revealed Himself to Moses

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When did the Israelites first begin to worship YHWH, refusing to worship or even recognize the existence of other deities? Was monotheism part of Israelite religious belief from the beginning, or was it an idea that developed later? While many biblical scholars view monotheism as a relatively late development within Israelite religion, I believe—based on evidence from early Israelite poetry—that the origins of biblical monotheism can be located early in Israel’s history, most likely by early in the first millennium B.C.E.

My first piece of evidence comes from Exodus 15, the Song of the Sea, which scholars generally agree is very early, perhaps dating to the very end of the second millennium B.C.E.1 The Song of the Sea is the song that Moses and the Israelites, followed by Moses’s sister Miriam, sang after the crossing of the Reed Sea. In Exodus 15:11 and following, Moses sang, “Who is like You among the gods, O YHWH? Who is like you, majestic in holiness, awe-inspiring in splendors, doer of miracles?”

At first sight, the text seems to be acknowledging the existence of other gods. In my view, that is only a tease, for both are rhetorical questions, with the clear answer that there is no one like Israel’s God, YHWH. None of the other gods is majestic in holiness, awe-inspiring in splendors, nor do they perform miracles. In other words, the other “gods” lack divine attributes, hence they are “non-gods.”

When Did Monotheism Emerge in Ancient Israel?

When did the Israelites first begin to worship YHWH, refusing to worship or even recognize the existence of other deities? Was monotheism part of Israelite religious belief from the beginning, or was it an idea that developed later?

www.biblicalarchaeology.org

Which still makes Akhenaton the first to speak with god and believe in only one god. We're kind of getting off subject now. Again thanks.

 

[jwoodie]

I remember, they learned of monotheism from the pharaoh Akhenaton. Before that time they were still practicing Yahwism with that horde of Semitic gods.

Noah and Abraham predate Akhenaton (and Moses). Besides, I don't consider exclusively worshiping a Sun God to be a particularly good example of omniscient monotheism.

 

[Stann]

Noah and Abraham predate Akhenaton (and Moses). Besides, I don't consider exclusively worshiping a Sun God to be a particularly good example of omniscient monotheism.

But neither one of them were monotheists, if Noah actually existed. Abraham is the founder of many religions, all of which have polytheistic roots. That says about all one needs to say about the subject.

 

[ding]

What's your take on this, not your religious preferences point of view, but what YOU actually believe and why you personally believe it to be true. . JSTOR Home>stable Shamans and Prophets. . ........ Brill | Over three centuries of scholarly publishing>article-p124_9 Why Prophets are ( not ) Shamans ?

Just as any profession will have people born with a talent for it the same applies to people attuned to God. The main distinction between Prophet and Shaman is the first one is God seeking man, the second one is man seeking God.

 

[Ace Nova]

Israel is God's CHOSEN nation. God only deals with Israel (all tribes) and only with other nations insofar as they concern Israel.

Didn't Jesus command his Apostles to make disciples of all nations?
Matthew 28:

19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
And in the Old Testament:

God speaking through the prophet Isaiah:

Isaiah 56:6

“Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

Isaiah 49:5-6
And now the Lord says—
he who formed me in the womb to be his servant
to bring Jacob back to him
and gather Israel to himself,
for I am honored in the eyes of the Lord
and my God has been my strength—
6 he says:
“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, (Non Jews/other nations)
that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.”

 

[Stann]

Didn't Jesus command his Apostles to make disciples of all nations?
Matthew 28:

19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
And in the Old Testament:

God speaking through the prophet Isaiah:

Isaiah 56:6

“Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

Isaiah 49:5-6
And now the Lord says—
he who formed me in the womb to be his servant
to bring Jacob back to him
and gather Israel to himself,
for I am honored in the eyes of the Lord
and my God has been my strength—
6 he says:
“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, (Non Jews/other nations)
that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.”

Another version of the same mythology.

 

[Ace Nova]

I'm surprised human beings were able to unravel the physical model for the structure of DNA. Yet, unable to understand or comprehend the primal language it represents. The Creator entity is surely beyond our capacity to understand at this point in time. When that breakthrough occurs ( 2037

What makes you believe it is "mythology"?

 

[Stann]

What makes you believe it is "mythology"?

Humans on this planet do not have the ability to understand or even comprehend " GOD ". They have a vague understanding that the entity exists and that alone was enough to spur the belief systems we call religion. Something we create, we can understand. Some religions even made their god / gods in our image to keep it simple and understandable.That's really ironic !

 

[Ace Nova]

Humans on this planet do not have the ability to understand or even comprehend " GOD ". They have a vague understanding that the entity exists and that alone was enough to spur the belief systems we call religion. Something we create, we can understand. Some religions even made their god / gods in our image to keep it simple and understandable.That's really ironic !

Do you comprehend God?

You spoke of DNA being an ancient language. So you must also be aware of the chromosomes that make up the coding for life?

Have you ever read the story of Adam and Eve in the Bible?

 

[Stann]

Do you comprehend God?

You spoke of DNA being an ancient language. So you must also be aware of the chromosomes that make up the coding for life?

Have you ever read the story of Adam and Eve in the Bible?

I understand what you call " GOD ", not a conscripted human version of the Creator entity.

 

[Ace Nova]

I understand what you call " GOD ", not a conscripted human version of the Creator entity.

If by your words, "God is beyond comprehension to humans" (BTW, many people of faith believe this to an extent), how would you simplify understanding God to humankind, so that they may begin to understand the nature of God (on a human scale)?

 

[Stann]

If by your words, "God is beyond comprehension to humans" (BTW, many people of faith believe this to an extent), how would you simplify understanding God to humankind, so that they may begin to understand the nature of God (on a human scale)?

That is not a simple task by any means, it requires the realignment of basically everything humans believe to exist and therefore perceive as their reality. I have hinted at this to others for years but it hasn't been well received as you can imagine.

 

[Ace Nova]

That is not a simple task by any means, it requires the realignment of basically everything humans believe to exist and therefore perceive as their reality. I have hinted at this to others for years but it hasn't been well received as you can imagine.

How do you feel about the possibility that God begins to reveal his nature in simple ways, so that humans can understand - the same way an adult would instruct a child?

For example, the very text you regard as "myth" could have deeper meaning for those that understand it on a higher level. What looks like a "fairy tale" to some could be something much different to others.

For example - A child named Adam reads a children's book about a boy who looks different. The boy is picked on in school by his classmates. By the end of the story, the boy grows up to become a hero of sorts, overcoming all adversity.

To Adam, it's an entertaining story about a child who grows up to be a hero, despite adversity.

Now Adam brings the book to school. His classmate Terry reads the book, laughs at it and says "it's a bunch of nonsense".

Adam doesn't really care what his classmate Terry says because he believes that the book is a good story and it showed how a boy became a hero, despite being picked on - so he overcomes Terry's ridicule by brushing him off - since that's what the boy in the story would have done.

Adam's parents (who gave him the book) knew the story tells the child reading it specific lessons in life: "racism/discrimination" (The boy looked different) - Being bullied (Picked on at school) - and overcoming adversity (becoming successful later in life).

Even though his parents are fully aware - Adam doesn't realize the book is giving him life lessons. Later on in life, Adam comes across the book again and realizes it was really about important life lessons. He didn't need to know that as a child because a child doesn't think the way adults do. Now as an adult, he gives his children the same book and knows that they won't understand it the way he does now but later on in life, they will be grateful that he gave it to them.

How would you feel if someone told you that the Bible and/or other ancient religious texts/doctrines could be mankind's "children's books"?

 

[Stann]

How do you feel about the possibility that God begins to reveal his nature in simple ways, so that humans can understand - the same way an adult would instruct a child?

For example, the very text you regard as "myth" could have deeper meaning for those that understand it on a higher level. What looks like a "fairy tale" to some could be something much different to others.

For example - A child named Adam reads a children's book about a boy who looks different. The boy is picked on in school by his classmates. By the end of the story, the boy grows up to become a hero of sorts, overcoming all adversity.

To Adam, it's an entertaining story about a child who grows up to be a hero, despite adversity.

Now Adam brings the book to school. His classmate Terry reads the book, laughs at it and says "it's a bunch of nonsense".

Adam doesn't really care what his classmate Terry says because he believes that the book is a good story and it showed how a boy became a hero, despite being picked on - so he overcomes Terry's ridicule by brushing him off - since that's what the boy in the story would have done.

Adam's parents (who gave him the book) knew the story tells the child reading it specific lessons in life: "racism/discrimination" (The boy looked different) - Being bullied (Picked on at school) - and overcoming adversity (becoming successful later in life).

Even though his parents are fully aware - Adam doesn't realize the book is giving him life lessons. Later on in life, Adam comes across the book again and realizes it was really about important life lessons. He didn't need to know that as a child because a child doesn't think the way adults do. Now as an adult, he gives his children the same book and knows that they won't understand it the way he does now but later on in life, they will be grateful that he gave it to them.

How would you feel if someone told you that the Bible and/or other ancient religious texts/doctrines could be mankind's "children's books"?

That could be so if " GOD " did indeed want us to be instructed. It did not ! What we have is a variable hodge podge of human concepts about what god is and isn't, it's just lead to confusion. That, in of itself, should be definitive proof that god never was the Creator of any religion, man was.

 

[Ace Nova]

That could be so if " GOD " did indeed want us to be instructed. It did not ! What we have is a variable hodge podge of human concepts about what god is and isn't, it's just lead to confusion. That, in of itself, should be definitive proof that god never was the Creator of any religion, man was.

Confusion for who?

Most people of faith certainly don't seem to be confused. No matter the faith/religion, most within those religions/faiths seem to be very much at peace with their faith/spiritualty.

 

[K9Buck]

What's your take on this, not your religious preferences point of view...

How can a believer in Christ respond if they're not supposed to respond with what God told us?

 

[Stann]

Confusion for who?

Most people of faith certainly don't seem to be confused. No matter the faith/religion, most within those religions/faiths seem to be very much at peace with their faith/spiritualty.

Confusion about the nature of what you call " GOD ". Being complacent is the last thing people should be. It squanders the experience of the soul.

 

[Ace Nova]

Confusion about the nature of what you call " GOD ". Being complacent is the last thing people should be. It squanders the experience of the soul.

There's a difference between "confusion" and a person "not knowing" the entirety of the nature of God. Many faiths/religions believe that we as humans cannot fully comprehend the entire nature of God. That's not "confusing" - it's what makes faith - faith.

Also, you continue to state, "what you call God"? How do you know what I call God?