CDZ What is White Privilege?

[imurmeisus]

I'm trying to answer your question by providing an example. Doesn't have to be specific to you. If a black business owner hires a black man based solely on his skin color. That is black privilege. You can put in any color for the business owner and any color for the employee, if the position is filled based solely on skin color, that is racial privilege.

Thats not Black privilege. Thats called a one off. For example. If I hire only Black people as a Black business owner how does that impact white people as a group since they own all of the resources, jobs, etc in this country?

'In for a penny, in for a pound'

'What's good for the goose is good for the gander'

It's okay to have a little 'black privilege', but no 'white privilege'?

Sounds inconsistent to me.

Correct. If you want to call a Black person hiring only Blacks some sort of privilege it has to be equal to the amount of jobs available to whites from white owned businesses. I would be limited in the amount of Black people I could hire if I say had a business setting up voip network for companies. I am only one of a few Black companies while there are literally thousands of white companies that hire primarily white people.

bigotry is formulated in the minds of those who believe their perception of reality is the one and only truth

That sounds deep. Until someone can show me something different why would I doubt my own perception?

For someone to show you anything requires you to first look at it

 

[Asclepias]

Thats not Black privilege. Thats called a one off. For example. If I hire only Black people as a Black business owner how does that impact white people as a group since they own all of the resources, jobs, etc in this country?

'In for a penny, in for a pound'

'What's good for the goose is good for the gander'

It's okay to have a little 'black privilege', but no 'white privilege'?

Sounds inconsistent to me.

Correct. If you want to call a Black person hiring only Blacks some sort of privilege it has to be equal to the amount of jobs available to whites from white owned businesses. I would be limited in the amount of Black people I could hire if I say had a business setting up voip network for companies. I am only one of a few Black companies while there are literally thousands of white companies that hire primarily white people.

bigotry is formulated in the minds of those who believe their perception of reality is the one and only truth

That sounds deep. Until someone can show me something different why would I doubt my own perception?

For someone to show you anything requires you to first look at it

What is it you are trying to show me that I haven't already looked at?

 

[imurmeisus]

The fact that your feelings, thoughts and emotions are feeding the same "system" which held your people down for far too long

 

[Asclepias]

The fact that your feelings, thoughts and emotions are feeding the same "system" which held your people down for far too long

Explain what you mean? I really curious because I have personally influenced 7 young black males to become great using my thoughts and feelings. This is in addition to my 4 kids.

 

[Spare_change]

It's an excuse used by some to rationalize why they have not achieved as much as someone else has.

That tends to happen when the people they are comparing themselves against had a 400 year head start in building their achievements and legally kept the other group from establishing the same foundation.

Really so are whites who have not achieved as much as other whites also victims of white privilege? Are blacks, and Hispanics who have not achieved the same as other blacks and Hispanics victims of black and Hispanic privilege?

I tend to think there is absolutely no excuse for whites that cant achieve. My first thought would be they are simply lazy or had some horrific childhood. Like I said whites have had a chance to build up a system that caters to their people. They dont like something they just change the law. They own all the major systems judicial, financial, and political. I think Hispanics suffer to a less harsh degree than Blacks for several reasons. They actually never have had their foundation taken from them. They have less hurdles to jump including whites would prefer a Hispanic over a Black depending on what you mean by Hispanic.

Your argument fell apart on your last sentence.

Then again, having a ready excuse to fail sure makes it easier to fail. Having somebody else to blame definitely limits the self inspection when it happens.

But, if you're looking for an excuse, that's as good as any.

 

[Asclepias]

It's an excuse used by some to rationalize why they have not achieved as much as someone else has.

That tends to happen when the people they are comparing themselves against had a 400 year head start in building their achievements and legally kept the other group from establishing the same foundation.

Really so are whites who have not achieved as much as other whites also victims of white privilege? Are blacks, and Hispanics who have not achieved the same as other blacks and Hispanics victims of black and Hispanic privilege?

I tend to think there is absolutely no excuse for whites that cant achieve. My first thought would be they are simply lazy or had some horrific childhood. Like I said whites have had a chance to build up a system that caters to their people. They dont like something they just change the law. They own all the major systems judicial, financial, and political. I think Hispanics suffer to a less harsh degree than Blacks for several reasons. They actually never have had their foundation taken from them. They have less hurdles to jump including whites would prefer a Hispanic over a Black depending on what you mean by Hispanic.

Your argument fell apart on your last sentence.

Then again, having a ready excuse to fail sure makes it easier to fail. Having somebody else to blame definitely limits the self inspection when it happens.

But, if you're looking for an excuse, that's as good as any.

I'm not arguing. I'm telling you something. Nothing has fallen apart. Blackhawk didnt make it clear what type of Hispanic you are speaking of. White Hispanic, Black, Indian? which one?

 

[Spare_change]

It's an excuse used by some to rationalize why they have not achieved as much as someone else has.

That tends to happen when the people they are comparing themselves against had a 400 year head start in building their achievements and legally kept the other group from establishing the same foundation.

Really so are whites who have not achieved as much as other whites also victims of white privilege? Are blacks, and Hispanics who have not achieved the same as other blacks and Hispanics victims of black and Hispanic privilege?

I tend to think there is absolutely no excuse for whites that cant achieve. My first thought would be they are simply lazy or had some horrific childhood. Like I said whites have had a chance to build up a system that caters to their people. They dont like something they just change the law. They own all the major systems judicial, financial, and political. I think Hispanics suffer to a less harsh degree than Blacks for several reasons. They actually never have had their foundation taken from them. They have less hurdles to jump including whites would prefer a Hispanic over a Black depending on what you mean by Hispanic.

Your argument fell apart on your last sentence.

Then again, having a ready excuse to fail sure makes it easier to fail. Having somebody else to blame definitely limits the self inspection when it happens.

But, if you're looking for an excuse, that's as good as any.

I'm not arguing. I'm telling you something. Nothing has fallen apart. You didnt make it clear what type of Hispanic you are speaking of. White Hispanic, Black, Indian? which one?

Why would I care?

You're displaying a level of hypersensitivity that I'm not sure is appropriate.

 

[Asclepias]

That tends to happen when the people they are comparing themselves against had a 400 year head start in building their achievements and legally kept the other group from establishing the same foundation.

Really so are whites who have not achieved as much as other whites also victims of white privilege? Are blacks, and Hispanics who have not achieved the same as other blacks and Hispanics victims of black and Hispanic privilege?

I tend to think there is absolutely no excuse for whites that cant achieve. My first thought would be they are simply lazy or had some horrific childhood. Like I said whites have had a chance to build up a system that caters to their people. They dont like something they just change the law. They own all the major systems judicial, financial, and political. I think Hispanics suffer to a less harsh degree than Blacks for several reasons. They actually never have had their foundation taken from them. They have less hurdles to jump including whites would prefer a Hispanic over a Black depending on what you mean by Hispanic.

Your argument fell apart on your last sentence.

Then again, having a ready excuse to fail sure makes it easier to fail. Having somebody else to blame definitely limits the self inspection when it happens.

But, if you're looking for an excuse, that's as good as any.

I'm not arguing. I'm telling you something. Nothing has fallen apart. You didnt make it clear what type of Hispanic you are speaking of. White Hispanic, Black, Indian? which one?

Why would I care?

You're displaying a level of hypersensitivity that I'm not sure is appropriate.

Why would you care about what? Since Hispanic is not a race you would need to define what you are talking about.

 

[imurmeisus]

That is wonderful and you should be very proud of that. However your posts (which are all I have to go on) tend to be fixated on one point and one point of view. I have 3 kids myself and I hope I can influence them well also.

 

[Asclepias]

That is wonderful and you should be very proud of that. However your posts (which are all I have to go on) tend to be fixated on one point and one point of view. I have 3 kids myself and I hope I can influence them well also.

What should they be fixated on? I'm not getting your point. I am discussing white privilege, I hope you are a good influence on your children as well as others you come in contact with..

 

[Spare_change]

Really so are whites who have not achieved as much as other whites also victims of white privilege? Are blacks, and Hispanics who have not achieved the same as other blacks and Hispanics victims of black and Hispanic privilege?

I tend to think there is absolutely no excuse for whites that cant achieve. My first thought would be they are simply lazy or had some horrific childhood. Like I said whites have had a chance to build up a system that caters to their people. They dont like something they just change the law. They own all the major systems judicial, financial, and political. I think Hispanics suffer to a less harsh degree than Blacks for several reasons. They actually never have had their foundation taken from them. They have less hurdles to jump including whites would prefer a Hispanic over a Black depending on what you mean by Hispanic.

Your argument fell apart on your last sentence.

Then again, having a ready excuse to fail sure makes it easier to fail. Having somebody else to blame definitely limits the self inspection when it happens.

But, if you're looking for an excuse, that's as good as any.

I'm not arguing. I'm telling you something. Nothing has fallen apart. You didnt make it clear what type of Hispanic you are speaking of. White Hispanic, Black, Indian? which one?

Why would I care?

You're displaying a level of hypersensitivity that I'm not sure is appropriate.

Why would you care about what? Since Hispanic is not a race you would need to define what you are talking about.

Why would I care about White Hispanic, etc? I don't even know what that means.

(Oh wait -- that was that guy Zimmerman, right? Still don't know what it means)

 

[Asclepias]

I tend to think there is absolutely no excuse for whites that cant achieve. My first thought would be they are simply lazy or had some horrific childhood. Like I said whites have had a chance to build up a system that caters to their people. They dont like something they just change the law. They own all the major systems judicial, financial, and political. I think Hispanics suffer to a less harsh degree than Blacks for several reasons. They actually never have had their foundation taken from them. They have less hurdles to jump including whites would prefer a Hispanic over a Black depending on what you mean by Hispanic.

Your argument fell apart on your last sentence.

Then again, having a ready excuse to fail sure makes it easier to fail. Having somebody else to blame definitely limits the self inspection when it happens.

But, if you're looking for an excuse, that's as good as any.

I'm not arguing. I'm telling you something. Nothing has fallen apart. You didnt make it clear what type of Hispanic you are speaking of. White Hispanic, Black, Indian? which one?

Why would I care?

You're displaying a level of hypersensitivity that I'm not sure is appropriate.

Why would you care about what? Since Hispanic is not a race you would need to define what you are talking about.

Why would I care about White Hispanic, etc? I don't even know what that means.

(Oh wait -- that was that guy Zimmerman, right? Still don't know what it means)

Because they are a type of Hispanic that has primary European DNA like a Spaniard for example? A Black Hispanic would have primarly Black DNA. I told you Hispanic is not a race.

 

[Spare_change]

Your argument fell apart on your last sentence.

Then again, having a ready excuse to fail sure makes it easier to fail. Having somebody else to blame definitely limits the self inspection when it happens.

But, if you're looking for an excuse, that's as good as any.

I'm not arguing. I'm telling you something. Nothing has fallen apart. You didnt make it clear what type of Hispanic you are speaking of. White Hispanic, Black, Indian? which one?

Why would I care?

You're displaying a level of hypersensitivity that I'm not sure is appropriate.

Why would you care about what? Since Hispanic is not a race you would need to define what you are talking about.

Why would I care about White Hispanic, etc? I don't even know what that means.

(Oh wait -- that was that guy Zimmerman, right? Still don't know what it means)

Because they are a type of Hispanic that has primary European DNA like a Spaniard for example? A Black Hispanic would have primarly Black DNA. I told you Hispanic is not a race.

Why do you care so much about their DNA? Aren't they just people, too? Do you treat them differently, or expect them to treat YOU differently, just because of their DNA?

 

[Asclepias]

I'm not arguing. I'm telling you something. Nothing has fallen apart. You didnt make it clear what type of Hispanic you are speaking of. White Hispanic, Black, Indian? which one?

Why would I care?

You're displaying a level of hypersensitivity that I'm not sure is appropriate.

Why would you care about what? Since Hispanic is not a race you would need to define what you are talking about.

Why would I care about White Hispanic, etc? I don't even know what that means.

(Oh wait -- that was that guy Zimmerman, right? Still don't know what it means)

Because they are a type of Hispanic that has primary European DNA like a Spaniard for example? A Black Hispanic would have primarly Black DNA. I told you Hispanic is not a race.

Why do you care so much about their DNA? Aren't they just people, too? Do you treat them differently, or expect them to treat YOU differently, just because of their DNA?

Because of the question. Are you following the line of questioning posed?

"Really so are whites who have not achieved as much as other whites also victims of white privilege? Are blacks, and Hispanics who have not achieved the same as other blacks and Hispanics victims of black and Hispanic privilege?"

 

[Spare_change]

Why would I care?

You're displaying a level of hypersensitivity that I'm not sure is appropriate.

Why would you care about what? Since Hispanic is not a race you would need to define what you are talking about.

Why would I care about White Hispanic, etc? I don't even know what that means.

(Oh wait -- that was that guy Zimmerman, right? Still don't know what it means)

Because they are a type of Hispanic that has primary European DNA like a Spaniard for example? A Black Hispanic would have primarly Black DNA. I told you Hispanic is not a race.

Why do you care so much about their DNA? Aren't they just people, too? Do you treat them differently, or expect them to treat YOU differently, just because of their DNA?

Because of the question. Are you following the line of questioning posed?

"Really so are whites who have not achieved as much as other whites also victims of white privilege? Are blacks, and Hispanics who have not achieved the same as other blacks and Hispanics victims of black and Hispanic privilege?"

I don't know who wrote them ... but seems like a valid question to me. If you're going to create a blanket excuse - the system kept me down - then that blanket has to cover everybody, right?

Let me ask this ... I know you're successful, and you've tutored several young blacks to be successful. When you see an unsuccessful white person, or an unsuccessful Hispanic, what do you attribute that to? You've often posited that 'white privilege can be overcome (you and your students are examples of that), so why can't, in theory, every young black overcome it? Is it because the 'system keeps them down', or is it that there just aren't enough like you to show them the way?

 

[Asclepias]

Why would you care about what? Since Hispanic is not a race you would need to define what you are talking about.

Why would I care about White Hispanic, etc? I don't even know what that means.

(Oh wait -- that was that guy Zimmerman, right? Still don't know what it means)

Because they are a type of Hispanic that has primary European DNA like a Spaniard for example? A Black Hispanic would have primarly Black DNA. I told you Hispanic is not a race.

Why do you care so much about their DNA? Aren't they just people, too? Do you treat them differently, or expect them to treat YOU differently, just because of their DNA?

Because of the question. Are you following the line of questioning posed?

"Really so are whites who have not achieved as much as other whites also victims of white privilege? Are blacks, and Hispanics who have not achieved the same as other blacks and Hispanics victims of black and Hispanic privilege?"

I don't know who wrote them ... but seems like a valid question to me. If you're going to create a blanket excuse - the system kept me down - then that blanket has to cover everybody, right?

Let me ask this ... I know you're successful, and you've tutored several young blacks to be successful. When you see an unsuccessful white person, or an unsuccessful Hispanic, what do you attribute that to? You've often posited that 'white privilege can be overcome (you and your students are examples of that), so why can't, in theory, every young black overcome it? Is it because the 'system keeps them down', or is it that there just aren't enough like you to show them the way?

Your confusing circumstances with an excuse. An excuse is just a reason for giving up and any excuse will do. Circumstances are real and must be considered and accounted for. The facts are that our current system in this country is racial. Its racism defined simply because it was put into place by whites to the detriment of Blacks and to a lesser extent other races. when I see an unsuccessful white persons I attribute it to something horrific in childhood or laziness. With a Hispanic it depends on their race. If they are seen as white then the prior explanation applies. With other Hispanics I attribute it to the same thing that plagues my Black community which is in large part racism combined with lack of knowledge and inclination to quit..

 

[Spare_change]

Why would I care about White Hispanic, etc? I don't even know what that means.

(Oh wait -- that was that guy Zimmerman, right? Still don't know what it means)

Because they are a type of Hispanic that has primary European DNA like a Spaniard for example? A Black Hispanic would have primarly Black DNA. I told you Hispanic is not a race.

Why do you care so much about their DNA? Aren't they just people, too? Do you treat them differently, or expect them to treat YOU differently, just because of their DNA?

Because of the question. Are you following the line of questioning posed?

"Really so are whites who have not achieved as much as other whites also victims of white privilege? Are blacks, and Hispanics who have not achieved the same as other blacks and Hispanics victims of black and Hispanic privilege?"

I don't know who wrote them ... but seems like a valid question to me. If you're going to create a blanket excuse - the system kept me down - then that blanket has to cover everybody, right?

Let me ask this ... I know you're successful, and you've tutored several young blacks to be successful. When you see an unsuccessful white person, or an unsuccessful Hispanic, what do you attribute that to? You've often posited that 'white privilege can be overcome (you and your students are examples of that), so why can't, in theory, every young black overcome it? Is it because the 'system keeps them down', or is it that there just aren't enough like you to show them the way?

Your confusing circumstances with an excuse. An excuse is just a reason for giving up and any excuse will do. Circumstances are real and must be considered and accounted for. The facts are that our current system in this country is racial. Its racism defined simply because it was put into place by whites to the detriment of Blacks and to a lesser extent other races. when I see an unsuccessful white persons I attribute it to something horrific in childhood or laziness. With a Hispanic it depends on their race. If they are seen as white then the prior explanation applies. With other Hispanics I attribute it to the same thing that plagues my Black community which is in large part racism combined with lack of knowledge and inclination to quit..

Ok -- i see where you are coming from.

Racism, lack of knowledge, and the inclination to quit are at the root of problems in the black community. I think i got that right ... in fact, I agree with you. Now, where we disagree ...

What percentage is racism, what percentage is lack of knowledge, and what percentage is inclination to quit? And, do you believe those percentages have changed over the past 40 years?

Added note: Should we consider 'lack of personal responsibility' to that list?

Second added note: Do you give the break to a 'black hispanic' because he looks black, or is there something else in play there?

 

[Asclepias]

Because they are a type of Hispanic that has primary European DNA like a Spaniard for example? A Black Hispanic would have primarly Black DNA. I told you Hispanic is not a race.

Why do you care so much about their DNA? Aren't they just people, too? Do you treat them differently, or expect them to treat YOU differently, just because of their DNA?

Because of the question. Are you following the line of questioning posed?

"Really so are whites who have not achieved as much as other whites also victims of white privilege? Are blacks, and Hispanics who have not achieved the same as other blacks and Hispanics victims of black and Hispanic privilege?"

I don't know who wrote them ... but seems like a valid question to me. If you're going to create a blanket excuse - the system kept me down - then that blanket has to cover everybody, right?

Let me ask this ... I know you're successful, and you've tutored several young blacks to be successful. When you see an unsuccessful white person, or an unsuccessful Hispanic, what do you attribute that to? You've often posited that 'white privilege can be overcome (you and your students are examples of that), so why can't, in theory, every young black overcome it? Is it because the 'system keeps them down', or is it that there just aren't enough like you to show them the way?

Your confusing circumstances with an excuse. An excuse is just a reason for giving up and any excuse will do. Circumstances are real and must be considered and accounted for. The facts are that our current system in this country is racial. Its racism defined simply because it was put into place by whites to the detriment of Blacks and to a lesser extent other races. when I see an unsuccessful white persons I attribute it to something horrific in childhood or laziness. With a Hispanic it depends on their race. If they are seen as white then the prior explanation applies. With other Hispanics I attribute it to the same thing that plagues my Black community which is in large part racism combined with lack of knowledge and inclination to quit..

Ok -- i see where you are coming from.

Racism, lack of knowledge, and the inclination to quit are at the root of problems in the black community. I think i got that right ... in fact, I agree with you. Now, where we disagree ...

What percentage is racism, what percentage is lack of knowledge, and what percentage is inclination to quit? And, do you believe those percentages have changed over the past 40 years?

Added note: Should we consider 'lack of personal responsibility' to that list?

Never really put a percentage to it but I would say it was the largest number as it effects the other 2 factors tremendously. Knowledge is lacking specifically because its not taught in our public schools. Historically accurate information has been omitted, denied or ridiculed. There is no reason not to teach this information and it effects Blacks the most. Regardless of it being intentional or not it is racism. Inclination to quit is rooted in your amount of hope. If your hopes are killed a million times a day as a kid you wont be too inclined to have it when you get older. I would think factors involved in the lack of personal responsibility could be distributed among these two things. Yes I think things have slightly gotten better only because the legality of racism is not as enforceable as it once was.

 

[Spare_change]

Why do you care so much about their DNA? Aren't they just people, too? Do you treat them differently, or expect them to treat YOU differently, just because of their DNA?

Because of the question. Are you following the line of questioning posed?

"Really so are whites who have not achieved as much as other whites also victims of white privilege? Are blacks, and Hispanics who have not achieved the same as other blacks and Hispanics victims of black and Hispanic privilege?"

I don't know who wrote them ... but seems like a valid question to me. If you're going to create a blanket excuse - the system kept me down - then that blanket has to cover everybody, right?

Let me ask this ... I know you're successful, and you've tutored several young blacks to be successful. When you see an unsuccessful white person, or an unsuccessful Hispanic, what do you attribute that to? You've often posited that 'white privilege can be overcome (you and your students are examples of that), so why can't, in theory, every young black overcome it? Is it because the 'system keeps them down', or is it that there just aren't enough like you to show them the way?

Your confusing circumstances with an excuse. An excuse is just a reason for giving up and any excuse will do. Circumstances are real and must be considered and accounted for. The facts are that our current system in this country is racial. Its racism defined simply because it was put into place by whites to the detriment of Blacks and to a lesser extent other races. when I see an unsuccessful white persons I attribute it to something horrific in childhood or laziness. With a Hispanic it depends on their race. If they are seen as white then the prior explanation applies. With other Hispanics I attribute it to the same thing that plagues my Black community which is in large part racism combined with lack of knowledge and inclination to quit..

Ok -- i see where you are coming from.

Racism, lack of knowledge, and the inclination to quit are at the root of problems in the black community. I think i got that right ... in fact, I agree with you. Now, where we disagree ...

What percentage is racism, what percentage is lack of knowledge, and what percentage is inclination to quit? And, do you believe those percentages have changed over the past 40 years?

Added note: Should we consider 'lack of personal responsibility' to that list?

Never really put a percentage to it but I would say it was the largest number as it effects the other 2 factors tremendously. Knowledge is lacking specifically because its not taught in our public schools. Historically accurate information has been omitted, denied or ridiculed. There is no reason not to teach this information and it effects Blacks the most. Regardless of it being intentional or not it is racism. Inclination to quit is rooted in your amount of hope. If your hopes are killed a million times a day as a kid you wont be too inclined to have it when you get older. I would think factors involved in the lack of personal responsibility could be distributed among these two things. Yes I think things have slightly gotten better only because the legality of racism is not as enforceable as it once was.

Ok, now I'm officially confused ...

1) When you spoke of 'lack of knowledge', I interpreted that to mean that the quality of education in the black community was so poor that young graduates were not equipped with the tools to succeed (I agree with that). Now, I get a sense that you're talking about race-specific knowledge - black history, etc. (You're gonna have to convince me how that keeps them from succeeding, but I'm willing to listen).

2) "If your hopes are killed a million times a day as a kid, you won't be too inclined ..." Who's killing their hopes? We're talking about young black kids who aren't exposed to whites on any consistent basis. Surely, you don't mean them. Are you talking about the black culture, and black adults being so beaten down that they kill the hopes of their own children? Isn't that what parents do? Help their children reach higher than they ever got? You can't reach the moon in one step, but you sure can make progress toward it every day. Is the problem that black adults are convincing the next generation that they CAN'T succeed, and are pointing to racism as the reason to not even try?

Just for the record ... I think the percentages are lack of will - 50%, lack of knowledge - 40% , and racism (interpreted as holding them back) as 10% of the problem. I'm not saying racism doesn't cause the other two ... rather that, overt racism blocking them is only 10% of the problem.

 

[Asclepias]

Because of the question. Are you following the line of questioning posed?

"Really so are whites who have not achieved as much as other whites also victims of white privilege? Are blacks, and Hispanics who have not achieved the same as other blacks and Hispanics victims of black and Hispanic privilege?"

I don't know who wrote them ... but seems like a valid question to me. If you're going to create a blanket excuse - the system kept me down - then that blanket has to cover everybody, right?

Let me ask this ... I know you're successful, and you've tutored several young blacks to be successful. When you see an unsuccessful white person, or an unsuccessful Hispanic, what do you attribute that to? You've often posited that 'white privilege can be overcome (you and your students are examples of that), so why can't, in theory, every young black overcome it? Is it because the 'system keeps them down', or is it that there just aren't enough like you to show them the way?

Your confusing circumstances with an excuse. An excuse is just a reason for giving up and any excuse will do. Circumstances are real and must be considered and accounted for. The facts are that our current system in this country is racial. Its racism defined simply because it was put into place by whites to the detriment of Blacks and to a lesser extent other races. when I see an unsuccessful white persons I attribute it to something horrific in childhood or laziness. With a Hispanic it depends on their race. If they are seen as white then the prior explanation applies. With other Hispanics I attribute it to the same thing that plagues my Black community which is in large part racism combined with lack of knowledge and inclination to quit..

Ok -- i see where you are coming from.

Racism, lack of knowledge, and the inclination to quit are at the root of problems in the black community. I think i got that right ... in fact, I agree with you. Now, where we disagree ...

What percentage is racism, what percentage is lack of knowledge, and what percentage is inclination to quit? And, do you believe those percentages have changed over the past 40 years?

Added note: Should we consider 'lack of personal responsibility' to that list?

Never really put a percentage to it but I would say it was the largest number as it effects the other 2 factors tremendously. Knowledge is lacking specifically because its not taught in our public schools. Historically accurate information has been omitted, denied or ridiculed. There is no reason not to teach this information and it effects Blacks the most. Regardless of it being intentional or not it is racism. Inclination to quit is rooted in your amount of hope. If your hopes are killed a million times a day as a kid you wont be too inclined to have it when you get older. I would think factors involved in the lack of personal responsibility could be distributed among these two things. Yes I think things have slightly gotten better only because the legality of racism is not as enforceable as it once was.

Ok, now I'm officially confused ...

1) When you spoke of 'lack of knowledge', I interpreted that to mean that the quality of education in the black community was so poor that young graduates were not equipped with the tools to succeed (I agree with that). Now, I get a sense that you're talking about race-specific knowledge - black history, etc. (You're gonna have to convince me how that keeps them from succeeding, but I'm willing to listen).

2) "If your hopes are killed a million times a day as a kid, you won't be too inclined ..." Who's killing their hopes? We're talking about young black kids who aren't exposed to whites on any consistent basis. Surely, you don't mean them. Are you talking about the black culture, and black adults being so beaten down that they kill the hopes of their own children? Isn't that what parents do? Help their children reach higher than they ever got? You can't reach the moon in one step, but you sure can make progress toward it every day. Is the problem that black adults are convincing the next generation that they CAN'T succeed, and are pointing to racism as the reason to not even try?

Just for the record ... I think the percentages are lack of will - 50%, lack of knowledge - 40% , and racism (interpreted as holding them back) as 10% of the problem. I'm not saying racism doesn't cause the other two ... rather that, overt racism blocking them is only 10% of the problem.

Its not just lack of racial knowledge, its also lack of functional knowledge that effects everyone. The one that I believe is crucial to Black kids as a first step is racial knowledge. Let me explain. If you are told the only thing you ever were was a savage and then a slave you dont have much to live up to. You have no tradition to uphold. I cite my parents instilling in me a knowledge of my racial heritage as a very solid foundation to my success. Its not really interesting to study math any way but the knowledge your ancestors used it and it is now the basis of everything invented in technology give it a little more appeal.

Their hopes are being killed by the media, the interaction with the cops, and yes sometimes with their parents caught in the cycle. No I am not talking about Black culture because thats not Black culture. If you see no way to reach the moon how do you expect someone to take steps toward getting there? There has to be a vision and a hope that you will succeed. Black children dont get to see that enough unless their parents are knowledgable enough to seek it out. Again its a cyclic thing.

I would expect someone not familiar with the issues to access the situation as such. I hold no malice but I will tell you that you are wrong.