What Leftism Does to People

[Wicked Jester]

You have a masters?

Suuuuuuure ya' do!

[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVwG1t-NVAA[/ame]

 

[paulitician]

If you reach a point where you think you're entitled to steal from fellow Citizens,you have become a kooky Leftist/Socialist/Communist. Promoting jealousy & bitterness amongst the classes is an old Democratic Party tactic. I would like to say it doesn't work but sadly it often does. Many people want to blame & hate those more successful than themselves. That's just the way it is. And the Democrats exploit that better than anyone. It is very sad but it is what it is.

Okay, still trying to relate to the thesis here, you are saying that leftism promotes blame, hate, jealousy, bitterness? So would you then say that is the motive or justification for acting out? For trashing or defacing or damaging or destroying public and private property? For trampling on the rights of others?

Or are many leftists by nature simply immature and childlike and they throw a temper tantrum when they don't get their way?

But even if you agree with that--and I don't intend to put words in your mouth at all so I'm just supposing here--how do you account for the exemplary behavior of Tea Partiers who also blame components of government and lay blame where they see it? (There is however, little evidence of jealousy or bitterness in the Tea Party movement.)

It's called preying on flawed human nature. The Left/Democrats know that promoting hate & envy translates into votes on Election Day. Turning American against fellow American is an age-old Democratic tradition. It really is Party before Country for them. Without all the hate & envy,where would their party be? They have to keep the hate & division going. Their very survival depends on it. More people need to find God and stop hating each other. We're all Americans at the end of the day. We shouldn't allow Politicians to manipulate us this way. The closer people get to God,the better off our nation will be. I truly believe that.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Last Monday, Andrew Klaven offered a mini essay that is particularly pertinent at this time of history given the social upheavals witnessed across the country.

I fully expect the numbnuts, wingnuts, and dingbats to immediately condemn his thesis and probably some right wingnuts will immediately applaud it without thinking.

But if we could keep this reasonably civil, I think there are some people who will actually consider whether he is right. Or whether his thesis is flawed and why.

The emphasis is mine and I took some liberties with the paragraphing hoping to make the text more readable.

Leftism is bad for people. It makes them awful.

The unwashed, ill-mannered, anti-Semitic, entitled, and now violent mobs littering various parts of the nation under the banner “Occupy” believe their ideas will lead to a better society — but they actually are the society their ideas lead to. Their behavior when compared to the polite, law-abiding, non-racist demonstrations of so-called tea partiers tells you everything you need to know about the end results of statism on the one hand and constitutional liberty on the other.

This is not, of course, to say that every left-winger is a miscreant but rather that the natural, indeed inevitable, result of statism is to produce nations of miscreants. When the state is permitted to make the individual’s moral choices, the individual is forced to become either a slave or a criminal; when the state is permitted to redistribute wealth, it chains the citizen into a rigid, two-tiered hierarchy of power rather than freedom’s fluid, multi-layered rankings of merit and chance; when the people are taught to be dependent on entitlements, they are reduced to violence when, inevitably, the entitlement well runs dry; when belief in the state usurps every higher creed, the people become apathetic, hedonistic, and uncreative and their culture slouches into oblivion.

I need hardly expend the energy required to lift my finger and point to Europe where cities burn because the unemployable are unemployed or because the hard-working won’t fund the debts of the indolent; where violent and despicable Islamism eats away portions of municipalities like a cancer while the authorities do nothing; where nations that once produced history’s greatest achievements in science and the arts can now no longer produce even enough human beings to sustain themselves.
Klavan On The Culture » What Leftism Does to People

"leftism" wouldn't be an accurate description.

The "New Left" or progressivism would be a better and more accurate terminology.

 

[The T]

Last Monday, Andrew Klaven offered a mini essay that is particularly pertinent at this time of history given the social upheavals witnessed across the country.

I fully expect the numbnuts, wingnuts, and dingbats to immediately condemn his thesis and probably some right wingnuts will immediately applaud it without thinking.

But if we could keep this reasonably civil, I think there are some people who will actually consider whether he is right. Or whether his thesis is flawed and why.

The emphasis is mine and I took some liberties with the paragraphing hoping to make the text more readable.

Leftism is bad for people. It makes them awful.

The unwashed, ill-mannered, anti-Semitic, entitled, and now violent mobs littering various parts of the nation under the banner “Occupy” believe their ideas will lead to a better society — but they actually are the society their ideas lead to. Their behavior when compared to the polite, law-abiding, non-racist demonstrations of so-called tea partiers tells you everything you need to know about the end results of statism on the one hand and constitutional liberty on the other.

This is not, of course, to say that every left-winger is a miscreant but rather that the natural, indeed inevitable, result of statism is to produce nations of miscreants. When the state is permitted to make the individual’s moral choices, the individual is forced to become either a slave or a criminal; when the state is permitted to redistribute wealth, it chains the citizen into a rigid, two-tiered hierarchy of power rather than freedom’s fluid, multi-layered rankings of merit and chance; when the people are taught to be dependent on entitlements, they are reduced to violence when, inevitably, the entitlement well runs dry; when belief in the state usurps every higher creed, the people become apathetic, hedonistic, and uncreative and their culture slouches into oblivion.

I need hardly expend the energy required to lift my finger and point to Europe where cities burn because the unemployable are unemployed or because the hard-working won’t fund the debts of the indolent; where violent and despicable Islamism eats away portions of municipalities like a cancer while the authorities do nothing; where nations that once produced history’s greatest achievements in science and the arts can now no longer produce even enough human beings to sustain themselves.
Klavan On The Culture » What Leftism Does to People

"leftism" wouldn't be an accurate description.

The "New Left" or progressivism would be a better and more accurate terminology.

The latter is more appropriate. Just look at what the progressives gave us in 1913...and how it has all built up to make Government stronger than the people to where Government has long past become a tyranny, that needs to be dissolved.

 

[Mr Liberty]

Liberal Fascism- "Absolute drivel"- The Economist. And shove the absolute BS about H G Welles while you're at it...Pub dupes!!

I did not think that this was possible, but you are worse than Truthmatters. You really are.

 

[Foxfyre]

If you reach a point where you think you're entitled to steal from fellow Citizens,you have become a kooky Leftist/Socialist/Communist. Promoting jealousy & bitterness amongst the classes is an old Democratic Party tactic. I would like to say it doesn't work but sadly it often does. Many people want to blame & hate those more successful than themselves. That's just the way it is. And the Democrats exploit that better than anyone. It is very sad but it is what it is.

Okay, still trying to relate to the thesis here, you are saying that leftism promotes blame, hate, jealousy, bitterness? So would you then say that is the motive or justification for acting out? For trashing or defacing or damaging or destroying public and private property? For trampling on the rights of others?

Or are many leftists by nature simply immature and childlike and they throw a temper tantrum when they don't get their way?

But even if you agree with that--and I don't intend to put words in your mouth at all so I'm just supposing here--how do you account for the exemplary behavior of Tea Partiers who also blame components of government and lay blame where they see it? (There is however, little evidence of jealousy or bitterness in the Tea Party movement.)

It's called preying on flawed human nature. The Left/Democrats know that promoting hate & envy translates into votes on Election Day. Turning American against fellow American is an age-old Democratic tradition. It really is Party before Country for them. Without all the hate & envy,where would their party be? They have to keep the hate & division going. Their very survival depends on it. More people need to find God and stop hating each other. We're all Americans at the end of the day. We shouldn't allow Politicians to manipulate us this way. The closer people get to God,the better off our nation will be. I truly believe that.

Well I'm not about to dis God and I don't disagree with you there. But God hasn't been identified as a player in either the Occupy groups or specifically in the Tea Party groups though I have on occasion observed generic prayers being respectfully offered at Tea Party rallies. Also, there was a strong religious theme throughout Glenn Beck's "Restore Honor" rally in Wasington DC that was not a Tea Party event but was attended by a lot of Tea Partiers.

I would guess prayer or any other acknowledgment of God other than via crude profanity rarely if ever happens at an Occupy protest.

But you do raise an interesting point re a possible catalyst behind the Occupy movement. Some are trying to make it as grass roots and spontaneous as the Tea Party movement has been. But is the Occupy movement grass roots and sponteneous or is there something or somebody behind it urging it on? And urging the violence and destructiveness?

And if so who? And why?

That would absolutely explain why the Occupy groups are destructive while Tea Party groups are not.

And, for those who really don't like Klavan's thesis, it could even call into question whether it is leftism promoting the destructiveness or something else?

Interesting no?

 

[Intense]

Last Monday, Andrew Klaven offered a mini essay that is particularly pertinent at this time of history given the social upheavals witnessed across the country.

I fully expect the numbnuts, wingnuts, and dingbats to immediately condemn his thesis and probably some right wingnuts will immediately applaud it without thinking.

But if we could keep this reasonably civil, I think there are some people who will actually consider whether he is right. Or whether his thesis is flawed and why.

The emphasis is mine and I took some liberties with the paragraphing hoping to make the text more readable.

Leftism is bad for people. It makes them awful.

The unwashed, ill-mannered, anti-Semitic, entitled, and now violent mobs littering various parts of the nation under the banner “Occupy” believe their ideas will lead to a better society — but they actually are the society their ideas lead to. Their behavior when compared to the polite, law-abiding, non-racist demonstrations of so-called tea partiers tells you everything you need to know about the end results of statism on the one hand and constitutional liberty on the other.

This is not, of course, to say that every left-winger is a miscreant but rather that the natural, indeed inevitable, result of statism is to produce nations of miscreants. When the state is permitted to make the individual’s moral choices, the individual is forced to become either a slave or a criminal; when the state is permitted to redistribute wealth, it chains the citizen into a rigid, two-tiered hierarchy of power rather than freedom’s fluid, multi-layered rankings of merit and chance; when the people are taught to be dependent on entitlements, they are reduced to violence when, inevitably, the entitlement well runs dry; when belief in the state usurps every higher creed, the people become apathetic, hedonistic, and uncreative and their culture slouches into oblivion.

I need hardly expend the energy required to lift my finger and point to Europe where cities burn because the unemployable are unemployed or because the hard-working won’t fund the debts of the indolent; where violent and despicable Islamism eats away portions of municipalities like a cancer while the authorities do nothing; where nations that once produced history’s greatest achievements in science and the arts can now no longer produce even enough human beings to sustain themselves.
Klavan On The Culture » What Leftism Does to People

Our beliefs arise from who we are and we become what we believe, a process which, according to our choices, can either resemble a spiral staircase heavenward or a flushing toilet. To him who has, more will be given, and from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.

I think Cause and Effect sometimes dictate things other than what we take for granted. There is Faith, Grace, granted, there is also a need for Clarity of Purpose. Principle, Cause, Reason, play a part in outcome, redirection, amendment, reconciliation. I may believe I can fly all I want, that does not change the Laws of Creation, Nature.

Andrew Klaven makes some good points that I agree with totally. I trace the disconnect with the Left and Principle, back to the Progressive Statist split with Classic Liberalism, and I'd put the Starting Line further back than most. I put the split with Alexander Hamilton.

Classical Liberalism, Celebrates the Rights of the Individual. Unalienable Rights, Conscience, Voice, Witness, Property, Self Defense.

Progressive Statism demands the Sacrifice of these Right's for the good of the State, the Collective, the Hive. In teaching that we are all interchangeable, replaceable, Identity and self worth, are lost. It creates a conflict within our very being that is not reconcilable. That results in a false sense of values, frustration, envy, anger and violence. We Each Matter, Left or Right, We Each being Human Beings have Value. We Each are Unique, with different gifts and different measure. We Each should be focusing on the development of our own talents and abilities, rather than trying to dictate to and control others. Just a thought.

 

[Luissa]

And socialism for sure doesn't over inflate the housing market. That is all capitalism.
Capitalism is great, I love being a consumer, but it is only great if we keep it in check. 1929 proved that.

Problem is The Equal Housing Lending act is socialism and not capitalism and that is what led to our housing crash .

Sure it did.

 

[Luissa]

And the reason I know what most are protesting is because I listen to what they ate saying. By this I also know your view of them is mostly wrong. You ate judging them by what you have seen on Fox. The movements are mostly non violent, not anti semantic, along with whatever you are spouting. The right just has a habit of judging many by a few. You do the same thing with so called welfare moms.
You might not be controlled by your government, but you are controlled by your stereotypes.

 

[Luissa]

You guys got pissed when we called the Tea Party protesters becAuse a few were, why do the very same thing you were pissed about?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Liberal Fascism- "Absolute drivel"- The Economist. And shove the absolute BS about H G Welles while you're at it...Pub dupes!!

I've had the misfortune to glance at some of your posts...and can, without a doubt, declare them to be …galactically stupid.

Any consideration of your posts is as useless as trying to blow out a lightbulb.

Hopefully your ability will improve by the time you are out of diapers.

Sure. I have a masters in History/ French Civilisation, and if you listen to "Liberal Fascism" for more than ten seconds, you're an ignorant moron/Beckbot. Liberalism and fascism are opposites.

Did you read Goldberg's "Liberal Fascism"?


"I have a masters in History/ French Civilisation,..."


I didn't know that Clown College actually handed out degrees.


I've seen the quality of your writing, and there is a great deal of money in your future: simply threaten to reveal the name of the 'college'.....
...out of court settlement without a doubt.

When you come up with a quality response…just give me a call…I’ll be ice skating in Hell.

 

[Foxfyre]

Last Monday, Andrew Klaven offered a mini essay that is particularly pertinent at this time of history given the social upheavals witnessed across the country.

I fully expect the numbnuts, wingnuts, and dingbats to immediately condemn his thesis and probably some right wingnuts will immediately applaud it without thinking.

But if we could keep this reasonably civil, I think there are some people who will actually consider whether he is right. Or whether his thesis is flawed and why.

The emphasis is mine and I took some liberties with the paragraphing hoping to make the text more readable.

Leftism is bad for people. It makes them awful.

The unwashed, ill-mannered, anti-Semitic, entitled, and now violent mobs littering various parts of the nation under the banner “Occupy” believe their ideas will lead to a better society — but they actually are the society their ideas lead to. Their behavior when compared to the polite, law-abiding, non-racist demonstrations of so-called tea partiers tells you everything you need to know about the end results of statism on the one hand and constitutional liberty on the other.

This is not, of course, to say that every left-winger is a miscreant but rather that the natural, indeed inevitable, result of statism is to produce nations of miscreants. When the state is permitted to make the individual’s moral choices, the individual is forced to become either a slave or a criminal; when the state is permitted to redistribute wealth, it chains the citizen into a rigid, two-tiered hierarchy of power rather than freedom’s fluid, multi-layered rankings of merit and chance; when the people are taught to be dependent on entitlements, they are reduced to violence when, inevitably, the entitlement well runs dry; when belief in the state usurps every higher creed, the people become apathetic, hedonistic, and uncreative and their culture slouches into oblivion.

I need hardly expend the energy required to lift my finger and point to Europe where cities burn because the unemployable are unemployed or because the hard-working won’t fund the debts of the indolent; where violent and despicable Islamism eats away portions of municipalities like a cancer while the authorities do nothing; where nations that once produced history’s greatest achievements in science and the arts can now no longer produce even enough human beings to sustain themselves.
Klavan On The Culture » What Leftism Does to People

Our beliefs arise from who we are and we become what we believe, a process which, according to our choices, can either resemble a spiral staircase heavenward or a flushing toilet. To him who has, more will be given, and from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.

I think Cause and Effect sometimes dictate things other than what we take for granted. There is Faith, Grace, granted, there is also a need for Clarity of Purpose. Principle, Cause, Reason, play a part in outcome, redirection, amendment, reconciliation. I may believe I can fly all I want, that does not change the Laws of Creation, Nature.

Andrew Klaven makes some good points that I agree with totally. I trace the disconnect with the Left and Principle, back to the Progressive Statist split with Classic Liberalism, and I'd put the Starting Line further back than most. I put the split with Alexander Hamilton.

Classical Liberalism, Celebrates the Rights of the Individual. Unalienable Rights, Conscience, Voice, Witness, Property, Self Defense.

Progressive Statism demands the Sacrifice of these Right's for the good of the State, the Collective, the Hive. In teaching that we are all interchangeable, replaceable, Identity and self worth, are lost. It creates a conflict within our very being that is not reconcilable. That results in a false sense of values, frustration, envy, anger and violence.

We Each Matter, Left or Right, We Each being Human Beings have Value. We Each are Unique, with different gifts and different measure. We Each should be focusing on the development of our own talents and abilities, rather than trying to dictate to and control others. Just a thought.

Several posts have been thoughtful, helpful, and have furthered the debate a bit and get passing grades. One or two others have even merited an A. A number of B plusses.

This one is the first A+ of the day. Intense nailed it so far as grasping Klavan's thesis and explaining it. (I took the liberty to make one paragraph into two for what looks to me like greater clarity of the point being made.)

 

[Mr.Nick]

Last Monday, Andrew Klaven offered a mini essay that is particularly pertinent at this time of history given the social upheavals witnessed across the country.

I fully expect the numbnuts, wingnuts, and dingbats to immediately condemn his thesis and probably some right wingnuts will immediately applaud it without thinking.

But if we could keep this reasonably civil, I think there are some people who will actually consider whether he is right. Or whether his thesis is flawed and why.

The emphasis is mine and I took some liberties with the paragraphing hoping to make the text more readable.

"leftism" wouldn't be an accurate description.

The "New Left" or progressivism would be a better and more accurate terminology.

The latter is more appropriate. Just look at what the progressives gave us in 1913...and how it has all built up to make Government stronger than the people to where Government has long past become a tyranny, that needs to be dissolved.

Very true, however the "new left" is really responsible for the pushing of progressive er socialist ideas mainstreaming violence and propaganda alas OWS...

 

[Mr.Nick]

I've had the misfortune to glance at some of your posts...and can, without a doubt, declare them to be …galactically stupid.

Any consideration of your posts is as useless as trying to blow out a lightbulb.

Hopefully your ability will improve by the time you are out of diapers.

Sure. I have a masters in History/ French Civilisation, and if you listen to "Liberal Fascism" for more than ten seconds, you're an ignorant moron/Beckbot. Liberalism and fascism are opposites.

Did you read Goldberg's "Liberal Fascism"?


"I have a masters in History/ French Civilisation,..."


I didn't know that Clown College actually handed out degrees.


I've seen the quality of your writing, and there is a great deal of money in your future: simply threaten to reveal the name of the 'college'.....
...out of court settlement without a doubt.

When you come up with a quality response…just give me a call…I’ll be ice skating in Hell.

Progressives are fascists - they've demonstrated that by their actions of blocking and degrading all ideas and people they don't agree with..

Hell, just yesterday they were blocking individuals from leaving a conservative conference using their own children as human shields.

 

[The T]

Sure. I have a masters in History/ French Civilisation, and if you listen to "Liberal Fascism" for more than ten seconds, you're an ignorant moron/Beckbot. Liberalism and fascism are opposites.

Did you read Goldberg's "Liberal Fascism"?


"I have a masters in History/ French Civilisation,..."


I didn't know that Clown College actually handed out degrees.


I've seen the quality of your writing, and there is a great deal of money in your future: simply threaten to reveal the name of the 'college'.....
...out of court settlement without a doubt.

When you come up with a quality response…just give me a call…I’ll be ice skating in Hell.

Progressives are fascists - they've demonstrated that by their actions of blocking and degrading all ideas and people they don't agree with..

Hell, just yesterday they were blocking individuals from leaving a conservative conference using their own children as human shields.

Of course. Thier power is about to be taken from them.

They're afraid

 

[Mr.Nick]

And the reason I know what most are protesting is because I listen to what they ate saying. By this I also know your view of them is mostly wrong. You ate judging them by what you have seen on Fox. The movements are mostly non violent, not anti semantic, along with whatever you are spouting. The right just has a habit of judging many by a few. You do the same thing with so called welfare moms.
You might not be controlled by your government, but you are controlled by your stereotypes.

You fucking delusional??

They're spewing socialist propaganda and screaming "shame, shame, shame" at anyone who disagrees with their assertions..

They're also impeding individuals from going on with their daily lives..

They have no fucking message other than they want something for nothing..

They're fucking losers...

 

[The T]

"leftism" wouldn't be an accurate description.

The "New Left" or progressivism would be a better and more accurate terminology.

The latter is more appropriate. Just look at what the progressives gave us in 1913...and how it has all built up to make Government stronger than the people to where Government has long past become a tyranny, that needs to be dissolved.

Very true, however the "new left" is really responsible for the pushing of progressive er socialist ideas mainstreaming violence and propaganda alas OWS...

They fail in the arena of ideas, thus use bloodsport tactics of violence and intimidation.

The People have been awakened, have had a belly full of it, and have come to a terrible resolve....those responsible will be looking for work after 2012.

 

[Intense]

You guys got pissed when we called the Tea Party protesters becAuse a few were, why do the very same thing you were pissed about?

The Tea Party's for the most part were Rallies, not Demonstrations. They were planned, they got their Permit's, they had a Schedule. They came, they Rallied, they went home.

The OWS Demonstrations are not Rallies. Multiple Zoning Laws are being broken and ignored. Health Issues ans Safety issues arise everyday. The planning is poor, too many are unaccountable, and that puts people and property at risk.

There is little comparison between the two.

Both Entities need to take responsibility for the actions, and what those actions manifest, and adhere to Nonviolence. That is Oversight. There is no excuse for losing control of your participants in that way. It is about Responsibility. Yes, OWS has a Right to Protest, Civilly. They have no right to violate Health Laws.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Liberal Fascism- "Absolute drivel"- The Economist. And shove the absolute BS about H G Welles while you're at it...Pub dupes!!

calm down Frankie....Sesame Street starts in a few Minutes......maybe Shamen will share his Crayons with you....he has an awesome box of Crayons....

 

[francoHFW]

"Liberal Fascism" is garbage. End of story. University of Rochester.