What Nation was The Number 1 factor in Defeating Hitler's Third Reich?

[BolshevikHunter]

1. What Nation do you think was the number 1 factor in The defeat of Hitler's Third Reich?

2. Could any one single Nation of the Allies have defeated them all alone?

3. Should Eisenhower have listened to Patton, and pushed The Red Army completely out of East Germany?

~BH

1) Germany. Specifically Hitler himself and his meddling, stupid military decisions, and horrendous command structure

2) Unclear; too many unknowns

3) Is there a point here?

Yes there is a point. It's called historical debate and discussion for those who enjoy it on a Friday evening. If you're looking for something else, then take a fucking walk. ~BH

 

[JBeukema]

counterfactual history

 

[BolshevikHunter]

Technological assistance plus massive numbers of trucks to move the army plus the tons of food they got does not jibe with "all by themselves". IMHO

Indeed it does not.

However, the Soviets were fighting a war of attrition against an enemy whose tech war had lines of supply that couldn't be sufficiently maintained.

Had Germany the same kind of access to resources that America had, along with a leader who wasn't an insane fanatic, they would've been invincible....But they didn't on either count, so they weren't.

Good points and I largely agree. In fact it is in part due to Hitlers madness that I chose Germany as my answer to question one to begin with.

On technological advancements:

I may have to rethink my answer to question number two. "Could any one single Nation of the Allies have defeated them all alone?"

I said no, however IF Hitler was not so mad, and we entered the war in Europe much later than we did, maybe we could have defeated Germany all alone. Would we is another question but if Germany were not already defeated AND we had "the bomb", well...

My friend? We stole the bomb from Germany. We also used Von Brauns V-2 rocket technology later on to make it to the moon. So that would not be realistic. If anything, they would have used it on us. ~BH

 

[BolshevikHunter]

counterfactual history

You're a bored little fuck tonight eh? ~BH

 

[Ragnar]

If history's taught us anything it is this. You don't invade Russia. They will run ahead of you and you will die when the winter comes.

Poking 'em all around the fringes and waiting for them to fall on their own works.

 

[BolshevikHunter]

If history's taught us anything it is this. You don't invade Russia. They will run ahead of you and you will die when the winter comes.

Poking 'em all around the fringes and waiting for them to fall on their own works.

That was a brilliant response. Don't know if it registered though. ~BH

 

[Ragnar]

My friend? We stole the bomb from Germany. We also used Von Brauns V-2 rocket technology later on to make it to the moon. So that would not be realistic. If anything, they would have used it on us. ~BH

I would not go that far. Sure we started the Manhattan Project in part due to fear that Germany was headed down that road. (1939?) However we had over a hundred thousand people working on it, including help from England and we had a few billion to throw at the project along with relative peace and security (on the homefront anyway).

We are throwing around a lot of "if's, and's or but's" in this discussion but I think we would have got the A-bomb first under almost all the scenario's. No?

 

[BolshevikHunter]

My friend? We stole the bomb from Germany. We also used Von Brauns V-2 rocket technology later on to make it to the moon. So that would not be realistic. If anything, they would have used it on us. ~BH

I would not go that far. Sure we started the Manhattan Project in part due to fear that Germany was headed down that road. (1939?) However we had over a hundred thousand people working on it, including help from England and we had a few billion to throw at the project along with relative peace and security (on the homefront anyway).

We are throwing around a lot of "if, and or but's" in this discussion but I think we would have got the A-bomb first under almost all the scenario's. No?

Rag, Absolutely Yes. Without a doubt we are throwing around alot of "if's" and "buts", but I like it.

Anyway, The Manhattan Project was created in 1942. It's creation was influenced by known scientists like Albert Einstein, Leo Szilard and Eugene Wigner. However, They fled Nazi Germany in 1939 and left alot of their work behind. Not to mention many Germans obviously stayed and also kept alot of their work as well. As did they have their own work. At the end of the day, We took what we learned from the Jewish refugees, and combined that with the discivered German program that we found after the fall of the Third Reich. Proof of this is how the Russians obtained alot of the same technology, and they obtained it from themselves, Former Nazis and traitors within the Allied Military. ~BH

 

[Ragnar]

Something to think about. My Manhattan Project history is pretty weak.

I did know something of the rocket tech we got from Germany, along with various spy networks and dubious other things NAZI related that we did not want the commies to get first. It was a fascinating and fast moving period of history.

 

[Cain]

1. What Nation do you think was the number 1 factor in The defeat of Hitler's Third Reich?

2. Could any one single Nation of the Allies have defeated them all alone?

3. Should Eisenhower have listened to Patton, and pushed The Red Army completely out of East Germany?

~BH

1. Pre-Normandy I'd say Russia. Post-Normandy I'd say America.

2. I don't think so, maybe the US or Russia, but just cause of size and population.

3. Honestly? I almost want to say Yes, I mean, he knew we'd end up going to war with them, although I bet he didn't know it'd be a 'cold' war.

 

[Oddball]

If history's taught us anything it is this. You don't invade Russia. They will run ahead of you and you will die when the winter comes.

Poking 'em all around the fringes and waiting for them to fall on their own works.

Nice.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Ragnar again.

 

[Modbert]

3) is there a point here?

 

[Modbert]

1. What Nation do you think was the number 1 factor in The defeat of Hitler's Third Reich?

2. Could any one single Nation of the Allies have defeated them all alone?

3. Should Eisenhower have listened to Patton, and pushed The Red Army completely out of East Germany?

~BH

1.) Germany, specifically Adolf Hitler.

2.) Russia.

3.) It wouldn't of happened.

 

[BolshevikHunter]

1.) Germany, specifically Adolf Hitler.

Mb, Ok, yes I agree with you. Why? Because his generals would have done a much better job if they were allowed to do so.

2.) Russia.

Nope. No way in hell without the U.S Airforce & The RAF bombing the German Armament factories. Albert Speer said it himself.

3.) It wouldn't of happened.

The point isn't if it would have happened or not, because it obviously didn't. Nevertheless, The possibility was on the table. So, That last answer is really not an answer at all. Appreciate your input though my friend. ~BH

 

[BolshevikHunter]

3) is there a point here?

View attachment 12926

And there will surely be a 7th because people enjoy discussing World War 2. I mean, we could create 100 different threads on the madman Obama's Health care bill, Illegal immigration or the never ending corruption of our Government on both sides, but sometimes a little historical discussion is nice as well. ~BH

 

[JamesInFlorida]

1. Britian. I think if they fell to Germany-Germany would have had a real good shot at winning the war.

2. No.

3. I'm not really sure to be honest, but I lean towards no.

edit: I'd go one step further and say without Churchill they would have fallen to the Germans, which would then lead to #1.

 

[konradv]

1. What Nation do you think was the number 1 factor in The defeat of Hitler's Third Reich?

2. Could any one single Nation of the Allies have defeated them all alone?

3. Should Eisenhower have listened to Patton, and pushed The Red Army completely out of East Germany?

~BH

1. The U.S., being the Allies arsenal turned the tide.

2. Probably not, but we would have held out, not defeated.

3. He listened to the people that counted, U.S. citizens were tired of war.

 

[ginscpy]

Which nation was the Number 1 factor in defeating Imperial Japan?

America won 75% of the Pacific War, Britain/Commwealth countries 20%, the Soviets 5%.


America a good 35% of the European /N Africa War. Britain/Commonwealth get 25% - and the Soviets 40%.

So Americas percentages (75% in Pacific plus 35% in Europe/N Africa) adds up to 110% .

Britain/Commonwealth nations: 20% Pacific plus 25% Europe/N Africa equals 45%.

Soviet Union: 5% Pacific plus 40% Europe equals 45%.

Just figures off the top of my head from all the books I have read and docs I have seen.

 

[asterism]

WWII showed the benefit of Air Superiority and it still wins wars today (we didn't use in Vietnam).

Russia could not have won without the US softening the targets. They learned quick, which is why in the 60s and 70s we had a quarter of the entire Air Force always in the air. They tried to keep up but couldn't. Their economic model fell apart.

Thank God Islam as a form a government is as collective and micromanaging as Soviet Russia was. That means they'll lose too.

 

[westwall]

My friend? We stole the bomb from Germany. We also used Von Brauns V-2 rocket technology later on to make it to the moon. So that would not be realistic. If anything, they would have used it on us. ~BH

I would not go that far. Sure we started the Manhattan Project in part due to fear that Germany was headed down that road. (1939?) However we had over a hundred thousand people working on it, including help from England and we had a few billion to throw at the project along with relative peace and security (on the homefront anyway).

We are throwing around a lot of "if, and or but's" in this discussion but I think we would have got the A-bomb first under almost all the scenario's. No?

Rag, Absolutely Yes. Without a doubt we are throwing around alot of "if's" and "buts", but I like it.

Anyway, The Manhattan Project was created in 1942. It's creation was influenced by known scientists like Albert Einstein, Leo Szilard and Eugene Wigner. However, They fled Nazi Germany in 1939 and left alot of their work behind. Not to mention many Germans obviously stayed and also kept alot of their work as well. As did they have their own work. At the end of the day, We took what we learned from the Jewish refugees, and combined that with the discivered German program that we found after the fall of the Third Reich. Proof of this is how the Russians obtained alot of the same technology, and they obtained it from themselves, Former Nazis and traitors within the Allied Military. ~BH

Partially true, when Heisenberg escaped he took the most important sheet of paper with him so the Germans were trying to build a hydrogen bomb, without knowing you had to have the fission bomb to set it off, they would have never been successful. We spent 3 billion dollars on the project (equivalent to 23 billion today) and in two years we had an operable system. Remarkable.