What should abortion laws be?

[JenT]

But I can't say it's "murder" and leave it at that. There are way too many women who have chosen to do that who are paying a huge price, and I sure don't want to add to their sorrows, I'm just hoping people will think twice before doing that.

God said

I chose you when I planned creation…
Ephesians 1:11-12

You were not a mistake, for all your days are written in My book…
Psalm 139:15-16

I determined the exact time of your birth and where you would live…
Acts 17:26

You are fearfully and wonderfully made…
Psalm 139:15-16

I knit you together in your mother’s womb
Psalm 139:13

And brought you forth on the day you were born…
Psalm 71:6​

As far as the past goes, God has always known what would happen, did that stop Him from creating that little one? no. Because eternity with God is NOT a bad thing, it rocks, and an aborted baby is no less with Him, in fact, IMO he or she has been secured a place with Him. I think they'll be given a different time to choose God, because there needs to be a choice. I think that's why there will be a "millenium", a thousand years after which Satan is released again for a short time so that all those who didn't get to choose, be it from abortion or being born with a mental problem, whatever reason, being with God for eternity is a choice and I believe what this life is all about.

Death is a RELEASE from a life where pain and evil and all kinds of hardships and trials happen to us. Aborted children circumvent all that for another time, but our actions of not allowing them to live, or contracting social diseases because of promiscuity, or lying or stealing or lusting, THIS life is the opportunity to settle all of that through Christ. So any mom that beats herself up for our past doesn't need to. Look at Paul, he hunted down and KILLED, MURDERED, countless Christians before Christ appeared to him and asked why he was persecuting Him. Receiving Christ rocked Paul's life and he went on to write most of the New Testament.

This life is a vapor, it's a one inch dash on a tombstone between born and died. But it's our chance to get to know our Creator. That's all it is. And I believe all aborted children will have another chance. I believe they're in a far better place right now than where we are today...or where Obama is leading us (shudder)

God does NOT want any of us living in guilt. It's why He sent the Savior.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Question: is conception when the egg and sperm unite or is conception actually when the united egg and sperm attaches itself to the uterus?

My medical dictionary says that the term "conception" is actually used to indicate both. I suspect that if doctors/scientists want to be more specific, they use the terms "fertilization" and "implantation". Otherwise, they're kinda referring to that whole period of time between.

Conception= the beginning of when the "life", as you call it, begins. It is the beginning of the life of the ZEF.

However, Conception =/= the beginning of a pregnancy. Pregnancy begins when the product of conception, the fertilized egg, now a zygote, attaches to the WOMAN's uterus.

Many extremists tend to say that the period between conception and implantation is also the woman's responsibility to uphold, in their own private consideration towards the "sanctity" of the "life" of the (yes, in fact growing and increasing in size) zygote. This is why many extremists are against so called "Abortifacients" such as the Plan B pill, and hormonal birth control, which is not only capable of destroying an unfertilized egg, but also creates an even more than usually unfriendly environment in the uterus, with will generally disallow implantation to take effect.

I can assure you that in most cases, a doctor of obstetrics is surely not going to refer to conception as the moment it implants, as that is not the moment the egg is fertilized.

conception definition - medical
con·cep·tion (kən-sĕpˈshən)
noun

1. The act of forming a general idea or notion.
2. The formation of a viable zygote by the union of a spermatozoon and an ovum; fertilization.
3. See concept.

Hmmm. Shall I listen to the medical dictionary, or shall I listen to the woman who thinks humans and dogs can interbreed? Oh, the difficult decisions!

Conception definition - Medical Dictionary definitions of popular medical terms easily defined on MedTerms

Conception: 1. The union of the sperm and the ovum. Synonymous with fertilization.
2. The onset of pregnancy, marked by implantation of the blastocyst into the endometrium.

 

[Cecilie1200]

In JD's case, it might be accurate.

That supposes there's anything else in there to be tapped.

Ad Hominems do nothing to further your argument.

What on Earth made you think that you were worthy of an actual ARGUMENT from me? Please understand that you are not a debate opponent to me. You are an object of ridicule and scorn, to be mocked and sneered at for my amusement. I have had less respect for you and the value of your existence than you have for unborn children along about the time you confidently informed the world that dogs can impregnate humans. You flatter yourself greatly every time you arrogantly assert that you are in any way worthwhile or meaningful, let alone enough to warrant the death of an unborn child in order to accommodate you.

By the way, since your character IS the issue at hand, due to the fact that your contentions reveal a disturbing lack of both character AND intelligence, my attacks cannot possibly be ad hominem, so please stop misusing the word in a vain attempt to sound educated. If you wanted to impress us, your opportunity passed a long time ago, never to return.

 

[Cecilie1200]

And here semantics become important. If we define 'kill' as simply ending the life of the prgnaism, per the standard definition, then I emphatically disagree. If we instead mean to end the existence of the individual as such, then we're back to sentience and braindeath. There are other matters, such as capital punishment, but those would be better addressed elsewhere.

That is where the terms "actively" and "self-defense" come into play. I consider capital punishment to be self-defense on behalf of society. And yes, by "kill" I DO mean ending the life of the organism. And no, there is no "back to sentience and brain death". "Actively kill" means deliberately ending someone's life yourself, as opposed to simply allowing the death that has already happened to finish running its course. It's the difference between shutting off a respirator for someone whose brain is too far gone to control respiration on its own and putting a pillow over someone's face. I have no problem with the first, but a very big problem with the second.

What of allowing someone to die who could be saved? At what point does failing to help someone become killing them? if I have a celox plunger some duct tape, a square of plastic sheeting, and the know-how, at what point does not controlling the bleeding and applying a butterfly valve become comparable less to removing the respirator on a braindead person and more like turning it off in the ambulance en route to medical care tpo save their life?

At what point does walking away from someone hanging off a cliff become tantamount to stepping on their fingers?

Short answer: It doesn't.

Longer answer: there is a reason why the law differentiates between negligent homicide and murder.

 

[Cecilie1200]

In JD's case, it might be accurate.

That supposes there's anything else in there to be tapped.

I must have faith in human potential...

In this case, I think you qualify as a pie-eyed optimist.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Ad Hominems do nothing to further your argument.

That's not an ad hom, it's an insult, you twit.

Back to you skipping English class....

In this case, the insult was made as an attempt to discredit an argument, twit.

No, it wasn't, because it wasn't made to you. It was made to someone else ABOUT you, and it was intended to mock you for the laughingstock you have become.

Your arguments discredit themselves. All I have to do at this point is sit back and snicker.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Females who race cars as either a profession or a hobby, generally would have to stop taking part in this aspect of their live.

And? If they don't want to have a pregnancy interupt their career, they should try any of the fabulous medical advancements collectively known as birth control. Did youknow it's possible to ahve less than a half-dozen cycles a year or even make it so you never have to worry about getting pregnant in your life? it's true! And there are foams and oils and lubes that kill sperm!!!! And if a condom breaks or you miss a dose, you can take a super-dose of B.C. and prevent impregnation. Honestly! It's really true! People call it' Plan B'!

A lot has changed since the 50's! You should join us in 2010- there're all kinds of amazing things!

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Then why have you spent this entire thread and the fetus in a box thread trying to justify it to yourself and deny that your child was alive and that you killed it

The same reason YOU have.

I never killed any child of mine.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

That is where the terms "actively" and "self-defense" come into play. I consider capital punishment to be self-defense on behalf of society. And yes, by "kill" I DO mean ending the life of the organism. And no, there is no "back to sentience and brain death". "Actively kill" means deliberately ending someone's life yourself, as opposed to simply allowing the death that has already happened to finish running its course. It's the difference between shutting off a respirator for someone whose brain is too far gone to control respiration on its own and putting a pillow over someone's face. I have no problem with the first, but a very big problem with the second.

What of allowing someone to die who could be saved? At what point does failing to help someone become killing them? if I have a celox plunger some duct tape, a square of plastic sheeting, and the know-how, at what point does not controlling the bleeding and applying a butterfly valve become comparable less to removing the respirator on a braindead person and more like turning it off in the ambulance en route to medical care tpo save their life?

At what point does walking away from someone hanging off a cliff become tantamount to stepping on their fingers?

Short answer: It doesn't.

Longer answer: there is a reason why the law differentiates between negligent homicide and murder.

We'll have to address this in more detail in another thread. I think we could get some interesting discourse going.

 

[JenT]

Females who race cars as either a profession or a hobby, generally would have to stop taking part in this aspect of their live.

And? If they don't want to have a pregnancy interupt their career, they should try any of the fabulous medical advancements collectively known as birth control. Did youknow it's possible to ahve less than a half-dozen cycles a year or even make it so you never have to worry about getting pregnant in your life? it's true! And there are foams and oils and lubes that kill sperm!!!! And if a condom breaks or you miss a dose, you can take a super-dose of B.C. and prevent impregnation. Honestly! It's really true! People call it' Plan B'!

A lot has changed since the 50's! You should join us in 2010- there're all kinds of amazing things!

Great theory...but birth control is not 100% effective, I used birth control with all three of my kids (okay the last was a lame attempt at the rythm method, heh) But with the second I used TWO (YES CORRECTLY) because I was so paranoid about unexpected pregnancies

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Females who race cars as either a profession or a hobby, generally would have to stop taking part in this aspect of their live.

And? If they don't want to have a pregnancy interupt their career, they should try any of the fabulous medical advancements collectively known as birth control. Did youknow it's possible to ahve less than a half-dozen cycles a year or even make it so you never have to worry about getting pregnant in your life? it's true! And there are foams and oils and lubes that kill sperm!!!! And if a condom breaks or you miss a dose, you can take a super-dose of B.C. and prevent impregnation. Honestly! It's really true! People call it' Plan B'!

A lot has changed since the 50's! You should join us in 2010- there're all kinds of amazing things!

Great theory...but birth control is not 100% effective, I used birth control with all three of my kids (okay the last was a lame attempt at the rythm method, heh) But with the second I used TWO (YES CORRECTLY) because I was so paranoid about unexpected pregnancies

If you use condoms + spermicidal lube + spermicidal foam + Plan b and still get pregnant, you either abort in the early stages as I and others have said or you accept that your deity of choice really wants you to have a child.

There is one means of prevention that's 100% effective, if you absolutely positively want to make sure you don't get pregnant.

 

[JD_2B]

But I can't say it's "murder" and leave it at that. There are way too many women who have chosen to do that who are paying a huge price, and I sure don't want to add to their sorrows, I'm just hoping people will think twice before doing that.

God said

I chose you when I planned creation…
Ephesians 1:11-12​

NOT a literal verse.

You were not a mistake, for all your days are written in My book…
Psalm 139:15-16

Specifically, 120, as was told to Moses when the flood was in the planing stages. Again, this is not a verse to mean that even one person was being spoken directly about. This is God saying that MAN is not a mistake, in general.
​

I determined the exact time of your birth and where you would live…
Acts 17:26

Which any doctor, or mother can do, also, so no relevance here, either.
​

You are fearfully and wonderfully made…
Psalm 139:15-16

This is another thing that any mother and father could say to their children.
​

I knit you together in your mother’s womb
Psalm 139:13

How could this be a literal verse, unless you can visualize God with knitting needles, and those needles being thrust into a woman's body?
However, I do not discount that God has a plan and that he knows which pregnancies will come to term, and which will not.
​

And brought you forth on the day you were born…
Psalm 71:6

Now THIS is better.. because even though a woman can say this also, this is alluding to God doing something beyond birthing the child- He give us life, by blowing air into us, for us to have the "breath of life", and causing us to become alive.
​

As far as the past goes, God has always known what would happen, did that stop Him from creating that little one? no.

Yes. He often caused women to have "miscarrying wombs", in fact. Why would he cause a woman to miscarry something he created and treasures?

Because eternity with God is NOT a bad thing, it rocks, and an aborted baby is no less with Him, in fact, IMO he or she has been secured a place with Him.

Not really. Miscarried fetuses "never had knowledge" and "never saw light", from God's own inspired word of the bible.

Job 3:16 "Or like a miscarriage which is discarded, I would not be, As infants that never saw light.Ecclesiastes 4:2,3 And I declared that the dead, who had already died, are happier than the living,who are still alive. 2 But better off than both of them is the one who has never existed, who has never seen the evil activity that is done under the sun.Isaiah 14:20 "You will not be united with them in burial, Because you have ruined your country, You have slain your people. May the offspring of evildoers not be mentioned forever.

I think they'll be given a different time to choose God, because there needs to be a choice. I think that's why there will be a "millenium", a thousand years after which Satan is released again for a short time so that all those who didn't get to choose, be it from abortion or being born with a mental problem, whatever reason, being with God for eternity is a choice and I believe what this life is all about.

New International Version (©1984)
Ecclesiastes 3:19
Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. (in vanity)

Death is a RELEASE from a life where pain and evil and all kinds of hardships and trials happen to us. Aborted children circumvent all that for another time, but our actions of not allowing them to live, or contracting social diseases because of promiscuity, or lying or stealing or lusting, THIS life is the opportunity to settle all of that through Christ. So any mom that beats herself up for our past doesn't need to. Look at Paul, he hunted down and KILLED, MURDERED, countless Christians before Christ appeared to him and asked why he was persecuting Him. Receiving Christ rocked Paul's life and he went on to write most of the New Testament.

BULLSHIT. You have been deceived by Satan, it appears. DEATH is the ENEMY. Satan wants you to believe that death can have some positive connotation to it, so that he can lure you towards it.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one ... Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through
sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned ...
[SIZE=-1]//bible.cc/romans/5-12.htm[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] - 16k[/SIZE]

(and if you are unaware, sin was caused because Satan lured the good people towards his evil way.. And they already knew that the punishment would be death, so, like you, Adam and Eve chose Death (Satan's way) over God.)

This life is a vapor, it's a one inch dash on a tombstone between born and died. But it's our chance to get to know our Creator. That's all it is. And I believe all aborted children will have another chance. I believe they're in a far better place right now than where we are today...or where Obama is leading us (shudder)

I am so sorry that you have been deceived to think this. I beg of you to please study ALL parts of your bible, not JUST the ones that the baptist preacher or the anti abortion propaganda machine tells you about.

God does NOT want any of us living in guilt. It's why He sent the Savior.

That doesn't mean that we are entitled to sin, either. Boy oh boy..

 

[JD_2B]

And? If they don't want to have a pregnancy interupt their career, they should try any of the fabulous medical advancements collectively known as birth control. Did youknow it's possible to ahve less than a half-dozen cycles a year or even make it so you never have to worry about getting pregnant in your life? it's true! And there are foams and oils and lubes that kill sperm!!!! And if a condom breaks or you miss a dose, you can take a super-dose of B.C. and prevent impregnation. Honestly! It's really true! People call it' Plan B'!

A lot has changed since the 50's! You should join us in 2010- there're all kinds of amazing things!

Great theory...but birth control is not 100% effective, I used birth control with all three of my kids (okay the last was a lame attempt at the rythm method, heh) But with the second I used TWO (YES CORRECTLY) because I was so paranoid about unexpected pregnancies

If you use condoms + spermicidal lube + spermicidal foam + Plan b and still get pregnant, you either abort in the early stages as I and others have said or you accept that your deity of choice really wants you to have a child.

There is one means of prevention that's 100% effective, if you absolutely positively want to make sure you don't get pregnant.

Actually, abstinence has been found to be overall highly ineffective, according to the related studies.

It's like attempting to rebuild a dam of Hoover proportions, after it has already been broken.. HIGHLY improbable that a little water won't seep through, or that the rebuilding will be at all successful.

Also, people who are married are not going to forego sex just because YOU have a problem with abortion.

 

[JD_2B]

Females who race cars as either a profession or a hobby, generally would have to stop taking part in this aspect of their live.

And? If they don't want to have a pregnancy interupt their career, they should try any of the fabulous medical advancements collectively known as birth control. Did youknow it's possible to ahve less than a half-dozen cycles a year or even make it so you never have to worry about getting pregnant in your life? it's true! And there are foams and oils and lubes that kill sperm!!!! And if a condom breaks or you miss a dose, you can take a super-dose of B.C. and prevent impregnation. Honestly! It's really true! People call it' Plan B'!

Yes I am aware.. But YOU are the one with a problem with women having so few periods, and not testing themselves every fucking week, just based on them being sexually active, finding out they are pregnant, and using their option to abort in the 4th fucking month. That is all YOU. Honestly!! The reason those abortions are so rare, is because many second trimester abortions ARE by women who are on birth control, and were not informed about their antibiotic contraindication for BC effectiveness. It's REALLY TRUE. Why would someone use Plan B, when they are already ON birth control??? And why SHOULD any woman be subjected to using foams and jellies EVERY TIME they have sex, effectively spending literally thousands of dollars a year on birth control, which might not even WORK, when there are ALSO plenty of ANCIENT methods that MEN can use as well, that are FREE????? Like sitting in a hot tub, for instance!! Don't want a pregnancy- have your man sit in a HOT (108 degrees or higher) bathtub for a half an hour every night, for three weeks, then follow up with a 15 minute a night sit, after that. Why does NOBODY care about the MANS RESPONSIBILITY TOWARDS HIS OWN ACTIONS????

A lot has changed since the 50's! You should join us in 2010- there're all kinds of amazing things!

Not much has really changed.. except that birth control is now dosed at a LOWER potency. Even in the 1950s, a woman could get birth control pills (same damn thing as plan b) and abortions and all that stuff.. Whether it was legal or not, doesn't REALLY matter. Even today, some women will pay other women for a few of their own prescription of birth control, to which the original woman only has to say that their prescription fell in the sink, or tub, etc, and ask for an early refill. NOT MUCH HAS CHANGED INDEED.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Actually, abstinence has been found to be overall highly ineffective, according to the related studies.

Abstinence is the single most successful method of preventing pregnancy. No sex, no baby*.


Artificial insemination excluded

.
It's like attempting to rebuild a dam of Hoover proportions, after it has already been broken.. HIGHLY improbable that a little water won't seep through, or that the rebuilding will be at all successful.

Huh? So the guy's cum leaks... into your vagina... through your clothes...? WTF are you babbling about?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Great theory...but birth control is not 100% effective, I used birth control with all three of my kids (okay the last was a lame attempt at the rythm method, heh) But with the second I used TWO (YES CORRECTLY) because I was so paranoid about unexpected pregnancies

If you use condoms + spermicidal lube + spermicidal foam + Plan b and still get pregnant, you either abort in the early stages as I and others have said or you accept that your deity of choice really wants you to have a child.

There is one means of prevention that's 100% effective, if you absolutely positively want to make sure you don't get pregnant.

Actually, abstinence has been found to be overall highly ineffective, according to the related studies.

Really? Please show us the study indicating that a large number of women get pregnant while abstaining from sex. So far as I was aware, there has only been one, and it was under rather special circumstances.

It's like attempting to rebuild a dam of Hoover proportions, after it has already been broken.. HIGHLY improbable that a little water won't seep through, or that the rebuilding will be at all successful.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, but I suspect you have no idea, either.

Also, people who are married are not going to forego sex just because YOU have a problem with abortion.

Yes, how silly to expect people to be responsible and care about the sanctity of life when they're horny and want to fuck.

 

[JD_2B]

And? If they don't want to have a pregnancy interupt their career, they should try any of the fabulous medical advancements collectively known as birth control. Did youknow it's possible to ahve less than a half-dozen cycles a year or even make it so you never have to worry about getting pregnant in your life? it's true! And there are foams and oils and lubes that kill sperm!!!! And if a condom breaks or you miss a dose, you can take a super-dose of B.C. and prevent impregnation. Honestly! It's really true! People call it' Plan B'!

A lot has changed since the 50's! You should join us in 2010- there're all kinds of amazing things!

Great theory...but birth control is not 100% effective, I used birth control with all three of my kids (okay the last was a lame attempt at the rythm method, heh) But with the second I used TWO (YES CORRECTLY) because I was so paranoid about unexpected pregnancies

If you use condoms + spermicidal lube + spermicidal foam + Plan b and still get pregnant, you either abort in the early stages as I and others have said or you accept that your deity of choice really wants you to have a child.

There is one means of prevention that's 100% effective, if you absolutely positively want to make sure you don't get pregnant.

Cost of pro's assertion that women should have to use all of that stuff:

Plan B: 45 dollars, if you get it cheap. Otherwise, it can cost in upwards of 65 dollars.

Spermicidal foam: About 10 dollars for a pack of about 6
Spermicidal "lube" (jelly): Another 10 dollars, for a pack of about 6
Condoms: Free if you live near a health center that distributes free condoms, and for 85% of the rest of the country, about 7 dollars for 12.

Soooo.. $2.50 just to have sex..
Plan B, taken twice a week (it can be taken within 92 hours of sex, so this would be all a person would "need" to take it to avoid pregnancy)- $90- $130 a week, considering the person has sex even twice a week, every few days.

Let's now put this all together.. Someone who ONLY has sex two times a week would be spending no less than $92.50 a week to APPEASE PRO, and people like him..
Which amounts to $4,810.00 a year...

Considering that a new car can be purchased for, oh let's even make it something better than a $10,000 buy one get one free Kia deal, and say it costs 14K for a new compact car-

14,000/12= 1,166 a month for ONE year... OR 291.66 on a four year payment plan.

$291.66 a month for a CAR PAYMENT is CHEAPER than the best enjoyed, most looked forward to activity in any couple's life, by Pro's terms, and that would be HAVING "RESPONSIBLE" SEX, which would cost that same couple a whopping $400.88 a month, BY PRO's TERMS.

Sorry, but you actually just sold me on stopping using protection altogether. Honestly, I could still disregard Plan B, and go on birth control, which, combined with all the other expectations of using a few back ups, like the foam, the jelly, and the condom, would still bring my grand total of monthly "sexpenses" to be over $66 a month, and THAT is because it is with a cheap birth control option from Planned Parenthood, where I would also be paying a "meager" $65 dollar visit fee, therefore adding an additional six dollars to my monthly The average person who does not have planned parenthood nearby, would spend upwards of 150-200 dollars on the doctor's visit (if they do not have insurance, which many many people do not have insurance, or do not want to go through their parent's insurance, to keep things private) in addition to a monthly expense of up to 60 dollars per month, and that is assuming that their original prescription was of the right strength, and that she does not have an adverse reaction to it, and have to go to the Doctor's office or ER, as a result.

In any event, she may have some other expenses that take priority, so there is no guarantee that she will be capable of spending 40-70 dollars extra a month to appease your evil little plan.
In fact, even at the lowest end possible, of 40 dollars, just at the retail store a month, SORRY but in 10 months, that cost could easily pay for a first trimester abortion, which you apparently support anyways.
And depending on the situation, if the woman has to spend an hour in the car to GET to that store, even once a month, then you are looking at another 15-20 dollars per month in fuel costs... Which, again, could be saved and used for such things as furry handcuffs, tasty body paints, and lingerie, and other such things that people who actually have sex are far more prone to buying ANYWAYS.


LMFAO!!!

 

[eots]

Great theory...but birth control is not 100% effective, I used birth control with all three of my kids (okay the last was a lame attempt at the rythm method, heh) But with the second I used TWO (YES CORRECTLY) because I was so paranoid about unexpected pregnancies

If you use condoms + spermicidal lube + spermicidal foam + Plan b and still get pregnant, you either abort in the early stages as I and others have said or you accept that your deity of choice really wants you to have a child.

There is one means of prevention that's 100% effective, if you absolutely positively want to make sure you don't get pregnant.

Cost of pro's assertion that women should have to use all of that stuff:

Plan B: 45 dollars, if you get it cheap. Otherwise, it can cost in upwards of 65 dollars.

Spermicidal foam: About 10 dollars for a pack of about 6
Spermicidal "lube" (jelly): Another 10 dollars, for a pack of about 6
Condoms: Free if you live near a health center that distributes free condoms, and for 85% of the rest of the country, about 7 dollars for 12.

Soooo.. $2.50 just to have sex..
Plan B, taken twice a week (it can be taken within 92 hours of sex, so this would be all a person would "need" to take it to avoid pregnancy)- $90- $130 a week, considering the person has sex even twice a week, every few days.

Let's now put this all together.. Someone who ONLY has sex two times a week would be spending no less than $92.50 a week to APPEASE PRO, and people like him..
Which amounts to $4,810.00 a year...

Considering that a new car can be purchased for, oh let's even make it something better than a $10,000 buy one get one free Kia deal, and say it costs 14K for a new compact car-

14,000/12= 1,166 a month for ONE year... OR 291.66 on a four year payment plan.

$291.66 a month for a CAR PAYMENT is CHEAPER than the best enjoyed, most looked forward to activity in any couple's life, by Pro's terms, and that would be HAVING "RESPONSIBLE" SEX, which would cost that same couple a whopping $400.88 a month, BY PRO's TERMS.

Sorry, but you actually just sold me on stopping using protection altogether. Honestly, I could still disregard Plan B, and go on birth control, which, combined with all the other expectations of using a few back ups, like the foam, the jelly, and the condom, would still bring my grand total of monthly "sexpenses" to be over $66 a month, and THAT is because it is with a cheap birth control option from Planned Parenthood, where I would also be paying a "meager" $65 dollar visit fee, therefore adding an additional six dollars to my monthly The average person who does not have planned parenthood nearby, would spend upwards of 150-200 dollars on the doctor's visit (if they do not have insurance, which many many people do not have insurance, or do not want to go through their parent's insurance, to keep things private) in addition to a monthly expense of up to 60 dollars per month, and that is assuming that their original prescription was of the right strength, and that she does not have an adverse reaction to it, and have to go to the Doctor's office or ER, as a result.

In any event, she may have some other expenses that take priority, so there is no guarantee that she will be capable of spending 40-70 dollars extra a month to appease your evil little plan.
In fact, even at the lowest end possible, of 40 dollars, just at the retail store a month, SORRY but in 10 months, that cost could easily pay for a first trimester abortion, which you apparently support anyways.
And depending on the situation, if the woman has to spend an hour in the car to GET to that store, even once a month, then you are looking at another 15-20 dollars per month in fuel costs... Which, again, could be saved and used for such things as furry handcuffs, tasty body paints, and lingerie, and other such things that people who actually have sex are far more prone to buying ANYWAYS.


LMFAO!!!

but then there is the cost of your herpes , syphilis and aids treatments..better re-think that one

 

[JD_2B]

If you use condoms + spermicidal lube + spermicidal foam + Plan b and still get pregnant, you either abort in the early stages as I and others have said or you accept that your deity of choice really wants you to have a child.

There is one means of prevention that's 100% effective, if you absolutely positively want to make sure you don't get pregnant.

Actually, abstinence has been found to be overall highly ineffective, according to the related studies.

Really? Please show us the study indicating that a large number of women get pregnant while abstaining from sex. So far as I was aware, there has only been one, and it was under rather special circumstances.

Sure!! Not a problem..
http://www.hawaii.edu/hivandaids/Sc..._Prevention_Programs__A_Systematic_Review.pdf

Pg. 77

In addition, the study comparing an abstinence-
plus and an abstinence-only program found that although
there was no statistically significant difference in frequency
of sexual activity among groups overall, teens indicating
sexual experience at baseline assigned to the abstinence-
plus intervention reported less frequent sexual intercourse
than sexually-experienced teens exposed to the abstinence only intervention at the 6 month follow up. (adjusted mean frequency 0.55 vs. 2.12 p. .05) and at 12 months (adjusted mean frequency 1.34 vs 3.03 p. .05)

The results of this systematic review show that
some abstinence-only and abstinence-plus programs can
change teens’ sexual behaviors, although the effects are
relatively modest and may last only short term.

Although neither abstinence-only nor abstinence-plus
programs had sweeping effects on teens’ sexual activity,
programs that offered contraceptive education significantly
influenced students’ knowledge and use of contraception.
Over 80% of abstinence-plus programs measuring contraceptive
knowledge showed an increase at follow-up.

It's like attempting to rebuild a dam of Hoover proportions, after it has already been broken.. HIGHLY improbable that a little water won't seep through, or that the rebuilding will be at all successful.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, but I suspect you have no idea, either.

It means that once someone has had sex, it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to remove such a memory or unquenchable desire from that person.

Also, people who are married are not going to forego sex just because YOU have a problem with abortion.

Yes, how silly to expect people to be responsible and care about the sanctity of life when they're horny and want to fuck.

Yeah, maybe you should try to pass some law that says that anyone who is sexually active must keep images of aborted fetuses above the bed, as a reminder that YOU subjectively think that they are "people"..

 

[Cecilie1200]

Actually, abstinence has been found to be overall highly ineffective, according to the related studies.

Really? Please show us the study indicating that a large number of women get pregnant while abstaining from sex. So far as I was aware, there has only been one, and it was under rather special circumstances.

Sure!! Not a problem..
http://www.hawaii.edu/hivandaids/Sc..._Prevention_Programs__A_Systematic_Review.pdf
It means that once someone has had sex, it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to remove such a memory or unquenchable desire from that person.

I wish I could say that it's a shock to me that you don't write or understand plain English, but it really isn't.

You said nothing about "abstinence programs", and neither did I. You said "abstinence is ineffective", and thereby made yourself sound like a damned fool. Again. If you're talking about people who are told to abstain and don't, then it's not ABSTINENCE that isn't working as birth control because THEY AREN'T USING ABSTINENCE. Duhh.

Also, people who are married are not going to forego sex just because YOU have a problem with abortion.

Yes, how silly to expect people to be responsible and care about the sanctity of life when they're horny and want to fuck. [/quote]Yeah, maybe you should try to pass some law that says that anyone who is sexually active must keep images of aborted fetuses above the bed, as a reminder that YOU subjectively think that they are "people".. [/QUOTE]

I don't subjectively think they're people. I objectively think they are because science says so. YOU subjectively think they aren't because you desperately need to pretend you're a good person instead of a selfish sack of dung.

When in doubt, look at the motive.