What would a socialist America look like?

[danielpalos]

It takes social morals for free, to achieve a secular and temporal, Commune of Heaven on Earth.

Stop drunk posting.

stop spamming, spammer.

Not my fault the thread is misleading and you're drunk.

nothing but spam, spammer?

Now you're repeating yourself. Is it you or the alcohol talking?

not me; i have a good argument.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed in our at-will employment States.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Stop drunk posting.

stop spamming, spammer.

Not my fault the thread is misleading and you're drunk.

nothing but spam, spammer?

Now you're repeating yourself. Is it you or the alcohol talking?

not me; i have a good argument.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed in our at-will employment States.

Why not $100? Why $15?

 

[dblack]

2. Canada — 89.49.
For such a huge nation, Canada only has 35 million citizens, and they are some of the best looked after in the world. Canada's healthcare is what stands it above the rest. Education and opportunity in the country are also impressively strong.

Is being "looked after" what we really want from government?

Quite the idiotic brainwashed spin you have on Good Health Care, cheap college and training, good infrastructure, living wage and vacations. It's called good opportunity, and socialism. Just what the United States doesn't have anymore statistically. Now we have the worst upward Mobility and inequality in the developed world. Thanks to the GOP giveaway to the rich and brainwashing the dupes the last 35 years.

That doesn't really answer the question. Do you think the purpose of government is to take care of you?

 

[Yousaidwhat]

George Will nails it again. George F. Will: Would Socialist America Be Much Different?

tl;dr - A: About like it does now.

...

What is socialism? And what might a socialist American government do?

In its 19th-century infancy, socialist theory was at least admirable in its clarity: It meant state ownership of the means of production (including arable land), distribution and exchange. Until, of course, the state “withers away” (Friedrich Engels’ phrase), when a classless, and hence harmonious, society can dispense with government.

After World War II, Britain’s Labour Party diluted socialist doctrine to mean state ownership of the economy’s “commanding heights” (Lenin's phrase from 1922) — heavy industry (e.g., steel), mining, railroads, telecommunications, etc. Since then, in Britain and elsewhere, further dilution has produced socialism as comprehensive economic regulation by the administrative state (obviating the need for nationalization of economic sectors) and government energetically redistributing wealth. So, if America had a socialist government today, what would it be like?

Socialism favors the thorough permeation of economic life by “social” (aka political) considerations, so it embraces protectionism — government telling consumers what they can buy, in what quantities and at what prices. (A socialist American government might even set quotas and prices for foreign washing machines.)

Socialism favors maximizing government’s role supplementing, even largely supplanting, the market — voluntary private transactions — in the allocation of wealth by implementing redistributionist programs. (Today America's sky is dark with dollars flying hither and yon at government's direction: Transfer payments distribute 14 percent of GDP, two-thirds of the federal budget, up from a little more than one-quarter in 1960. In the half-century 1963-2013, transfer payments were the fastest-growing category of personal income. By 2010, American governments were transferring $2.2 trillion in government money, goods and services.)

Socialism favors vigorous government interventions in the allocation of capital, directing it to uses that farsighted government knows, and the slow-witted market does not realize, constitute the wave of the future. So, an American socialist government might tell, say, Carrier Corp. and Harley-Davidson that the government knows better than they do where they should invest shareholders' assets.

Mike Lee's office displays two piles of paper. One, a few inches high, contains the laws Congress passed in a recent year. The other, about 8 feet tall, contains regulations churned out that year by the administrative state's agencies.)

Socialism favors vast scope for ad hoc executive actions unbound by constraining laws that stifle executive nimbleness and creativity. (Imagine an aggrieved president telling, say, Harley-Davidson: “I've” — first-person singular pronoun — “done so much for you.”)

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed, and Industrial Automation to help with social costs, is another version.

Still pushing for unemployment compensation even if you quit a job? Why should other people work to earn money just to have to give it to you? Especially if you are able to work and just quit because you don’t want to work?

And FYI, increasing industrial automation will increase unemployment.

It is about economics, not selfish points of view.

Higher paid labor pays more in taxes and creates more in demand. Unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed, solves simple poverty and is more cost effective than any form of means testing for welfare.

We could be lowering our tax burden by increasing the efficiency of our economy.

Why is it selfish to want to keep the money you earn, but choosing to not work while taking money from workers is somehow being magnanimous?

BLASPHEMY!

Where is your empathy?

Gamers need to have a roof over their heads and food to fuel their online experience.

Look it as being an artist...

We need a Government funded endowment...

We need to embrace their diversity...

 

[danielpalos]

stop spamming, spammer.

Not my fault the thread is misleading and you're drunk.

nothing but spam, spammer?

Now you're repeating yourself. Is it you or the alcohol talking?

not me; i have a good argument.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed in our at-will employment States.

Why not $100? Why $15?

Why do You want to generate so much revenue for Bigger government?

 

[danielpalos]

2. Canada — 89.49.
For such a huge nation, Canada only has 35 million citizens, and they are some of the best looked after in the world. Canada's healthcare is what stands it above the rest. Education and opportunity in the country are also impressively strong.

Is being "looked after" what we really want from government?

Quite the idiotic brainwashed spin you have on Good Health Care, cheap college and training, good infrastructure, living wage and vacations. It's called good opportunity, and socialism. Just what the United States doesn't have anymore statistically. Now we have the worst upward Mobility and inequality in the developed world. Thanks to the GOP giveaway to the rich and brainwashing the dupes the last 35 years.

That doesn't really answer the question. Do you think the purpose of government is to take care of you?

Providing for the general welfare is in our Constitution.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Not my fault the thread is misleading and you're drunk.

nothing but spam, spammer?

Now you're repeating yourself. Is it you or the alcohol talking?

not me; i have a good argument.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed in our at-will employment States.

Why not $100? Why $15?

Why do You want to generate so much revenue for Bigger government?

I thought we were just throwing out random arbitrary numbers?

 

[danielpalos]

George Will nails it again. George F. Will: Would Socialist America Be Much Different?

tl;dr - A: About like it does now.

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed, and Industrial Automation to help with social costs, is another version.

Still pushing for unemployment compensation even if you quit a job? Why should other people work to earn money just to have to give it to you? Especially if you are able to work and just quit because you don’t want to work?

And FYI, increasing industrial automation will increase unemployment.

It is about economics, not selfish points of view.

Higher paid labor pays more in taxes and creates more in demand. Unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed, solves simple poverty and is more cost effective than any form of means testing for welfare.

We could be lowering our tax burden by increasing the efficiency of our economy.

Why is it selfish to want to keep the money you earn, but choosing to not work while taking money from workers is somehow being magnanimous?

BLASPHEMY!

Where is your empathy?

Gamers need to have a roof over their heads and food to fuel their online experience.

Look it as being an artist...

We need a Government funded endowment...

We need to embrace their diversity...

nobody takes the right wing seriously about economics.

Higher paid labor, pays more in Taxes and Creates more in Demand.

 

[danielpalos]

nothing but spam, spammer?

Now you're repeating yourself. Is it you or the alcohol talking?

not me; i have a good argument.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed in our at-will employment States.

Why not $100? Why $15?

Why do You want to generate so much revenue for Bigger government?

I thought we were just throwing out random arbitrary numbers?

i have a Good argument and don't need to gossip.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Now you're repeating yourself. Is it you or the alcohol talking?

not me; i have a good argument.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed in our at-will employment States.

Why not $100? Why $15?

Why do You want to generate so much revenue for Bigger government?

I thought we were just throwing out random arbitrary numbers?

i have a Good argument and don't need to gossip.

If you knew basic math you would know your argument is flawed and actually stupid.

 

[danielpalos]

not me; i have a good argument.

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed in our at-will employment States.

Why not $100? Why $15?

Why do You want to generate so much revenue for Bigger government?

I thought we were just throwing out random arbitrary numbers?

i have a Good argument and don't need to gossip.

If you knew basic math you would know your argument is flawed and actually stupid.

If you had a good argument, you would have used it already.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Why not $100? Why $15?

Why do You want to generate so much revenue for Bigger government?

I thought we were just throwing out random arbitrary numbers?

i have a Good argument and don't need to gossip.

If you knew basic math you would know your argument is flawed and actually stupid.

If you had a good argument, you would have used it already.

I d Rather invest in tech than pay min wage laborers $15 per hour so now instead of $10 they get zero. How about that? What is the most important stat when you value a manufacturing company? Do you know?

 

[danielpalos]

Why do You want to generate so much revenue for Bigger government?

I thought we were just throwing out random arbitrary numbers?

i have a Good argument and don't need to gossip.

If you knew basic math you would know your argument is flawed and actually stupid.

If you had a good argument, you would have used it already.

I d Rather invest in tech than pay min wage laborers $15 per hour so now instead of $10 they get zero. How about that? What is the most important stat when you value a manufacturing company? Do you know?

Social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour, by comparison. Why subsidize venture capitalists with cheap labor; we are not a Third World economy.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I thought we were just throwing out random arbitrary numbers?

i have a Good argument and don't need to gossip.

If you knew basic math you would know your argument is flawed and actually stupid.

If you had a good argument, you would have used it already.

I d Rather invest in tech than pay min wage laborers $15 per hour so now instead of $10 they get zero. How about that? What is the most important stat when you value a manufacturing company? Do you know?

Social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour, by comparison. Why subsidize venture capitalists with cheap labor; we are not a Third World economy.

I ll Replace the workers with machines and they will get zero. If they want to earn more then they should learn a marketable skill. What social services are you referring to?

 

[danielpalos]

i have a Good argument and don't need to gossip.

If you knew basic math you would know your argument is flawed and actually stupid.

If you had a good argument, you would have used it already.

I d Rather invest in tech than pay min wage laborers $15 per hour so now instead of $10 they get zero. How about that? What is the most important stat when you value a manufacturing company? Do you know?

Social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour, by comparison. Why subsidize venture capitalists with cheap labor; we are not a Third World economy.

I ll Replace the workers with machines and they will get zero. If they want to earn more then they should learn a marketable skill. What social services are you referring to?

You miss the point, right winger; unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed, solves for simple poverty. Capital Must seek gains from Efficiency not Cheap labor in the First World.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

If you knew basic math you would know your argument is flawed and actually stupid.

If you had a good argument, you would have used it already.

I d Rather invest in tech than pay min wage laborers $15 per hour so now instead of $10 they get zero. How about that? What is the most important stat when you value a manufacturing company? Do you know?

Social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour, by comparison. Why subsidize venture capitalists with cheap labor; we are not a Third World economy.

I ll Replace the workers with machines and they will get zero. If they want to earn more then they should learn a marketable skill. What social services are you referring to?

You miss the point, right winger; unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed, solves for simple poverty. Capital Must seek gains from Efficiency not Cheap labor in the First World.

I play Left Wing. You miss the point. Take a Finance class. You never answered my question. Uneducated troll.

 

[danielpalos]

If you had a good argument, you would have used it already.

I d Rather invest in tech than pay min wage laborers $15 per hour so now instead of $10 they get zero. How about that? What is the most important stat when you value a manufacturing company? Do you know?

Social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour, by comparison. Why subsidize venture capitalists with cheap labor; we are not a Third World economy.

I ll Replace the workers with machines and they will get zero. If they want to earn more then they should learn a marketable skill. What social services are you referring to?

You miss the point, right winger; unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed, solves for simple poverty. Capital Must seek gains from Efficiency not Cheap labor in the First World.

I play Left Wing. You miss the point. Take a Finance class. You never answered my question. Uneducated troll.

You are trying to make the point; you have to show it.

Even the dollar menu, won't double.

 

[danielpalos]

If you had a good argument, you would have used it already.

I d Rather invest in tech than pay min wage laborers $15 per hour so now instead of $10 they get zero. How about that? What is the most important stat when you value a manufacturing company? Do you know?

Social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour, by comparison. Why subsidize venture capitalists with cheap labor; we are not a Third World economy.

I ll Replace the workers with machines and they will get zero. If they want to earn more then they should learn a marketable skill. What social services are you referring to?

You miss the point, right winger; unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed, solves for simple poverty. Capital Must seek gains from Efficiency not Cheap labor in the First World.

I play Left Wing. You miss the point. Take a Finance class. You never answered my question. Uneducated troll.

Capitalism has a natural rate of unemployment; it is not Only for Labor.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I d Rather invest in tech than pay min wage laborers $15 per hour so now instead of $10 they get zero. How about that? What is the most important stat when you value a manufacturing company? Do you know?

Social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour, by comparison. Why subsidize venture capitalists with cheap labor; we are not a Third World economy.

I ll Replace the workers with machines and they will get zero. If they want to earn more then they should learn a marketable skill. What social services are you referring to?

You miss the point, right winger; unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed, solves for simple poverty. Capital Must seek gains from Efficiency not Cheap labor in the First World.

I play Left Wing. You miss the point. Take a Finance class. You never answered my question. Uneducated troll.

Capitalism has a natural rate of unemployment; it is not Only for Labor.

When looking at a manufacturing company what is the most important statistic?

 

[WinterBorn]

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage, unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed, and Industrial Automation to help with social costs, is another version.

Still pushing for unemployment compensation even if you quit a job? Why should other people work to earn money just to have to give it to you? Especially if you are able to work and just quit because you don’t want to work?

And FYI, increasing industrial automation will increase unemployment.

It is about economics, not selfish points of view.

Higher paid labor pays more in taxes and creates more in demand. Unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed, solves simple poverty and is more cost effective than any form of means testing for welfare.

We could be lowering our tax burden by increasing the efficiency of our economy.

Why is it selfish to want to keep the money you earn, but choosing to not work while taking money from workers is somehow being magnanimous?

BLASPHEMY!

Where is your empathy?

Gamers need to have a roof over their heads and food to fuel their online experience.

Look it as being an artist...

We need a Government funded endowment...

We need to embrace their diversity...

nobody takes the right wing seriously about economics.

Higher paid labor, pays more in Taxes and Creates more in Demand.

And increases the cost of whatever they produce. And it is not just those making minimum wage that will cost more. Many years ago, when I was a general manager of a hotel, the minimum wage went up. Our housekeepers started at minimum and received raises after 90 days and then every 6 months if their work was good. Minimum wage went up $0.50 per hour, if I recall. I had around 35 full time housekeepers. They all got a $0.50 raise. Because I could not make the ones who had been there have the same pay as brand new employees. Looking at the numbers now, 35 housekeepers getting half a dollar raise increased payroll by a touch over $3k a month. The annual increase was around $36k.

If the housekeepers are starting at minimum wage now, and are increased to $15 an hour (and the rest get corresponding raises), the monthly payroll will increase by $47k a month. The annual increase in payroll would be $564k. I would have had to raise prices significantly to cover half a million dollars in increases to payroll. And that math does not include anyone but housekeeping. Add in front desk, back office, maintenance, and groundskeepers? YOu are probably looking at between $800k and $1million just for the increase in payroll.