Where does the constitution give Congress power to set up national health care?

[regent]

From the Enumerated Powers in Section 8

To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, ;

.

Then why did they need an Amendment to impose income taxes? This anti-democratic manifesto has enabled a racket from the very beginning, even contradicting its own text. Not having income taxes is what caused the Whiskey Rebellion in 1791.

Because of Article one, Section nine, clause four.

 

[P@triot]

lost in discussion about health care is how bad a system we have no matter how its paid for.

A very interesting book is Medical Nemesis.
The classic example it gives involves a test set up to test doctors. It went something like this. 100 kids were sent in to see if they needed their tonsils out, the doctors found 30 that needed them out, the remaining 70 were sent to another set of doctors, 20 or so of those supposedly needed them out. It went on until they had a batch of healthy kids down to 10 or 20 that didnt need their tonsils out.

Actually, lost in discussion about health care is how it's none of the federal governments business under any circumstance.

And if the America people want it to be the business of the federal government, then they need to properly amend the Constitution to make healthcare the responsibility of the federal government. But the American people don't want that - and thus the Dumbocrats know they can't get the votes necessary - so they do what they always do and violate the Constitution.

 

[Snookie]

People never take into consideration the origin and history of health care.

Where did it originate?

From religion.

We have a chaplin in congress, we write in "God we trust" on our money, use bibles in court proceedings, but never involve religion in helth care ever snce the secular health care monopolies bought out all the religious institututes who used to provide care for the indignent.

A great book about the early days of health care that should be read by any religious person is "My Der and Glorious Physican.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Dear+and+Glorious+Physician]Amazon.com: Dear and Glorious Physician[/ame]

 

[P@triot]

People never take into consideration the origin and history of health care.

Where did it originate?

From religion.

We have a chaplin in congress, we write in "God we trust" on our money, use bibles in court proceedings, but never involve religion in helth care ever snce the secular health care monopolies bought out all the religious institututes who used to provide care for the indignent.

A great book about the early days of health care that should be read by any religious person is "My Der and Glorious Physican.

Amazon.com: Dear and Glorious Physician

We never involve religion in production of the iPhone either. What is your point?

 

[jon_berzerk]

People never take into consideration the origin and history of health care.

Where did it originate?

From religion.

We have a chaplin in congress, we write in "God we trust" on our money, use bibles in court proceedings, but never involve religion in helth care ever snce the secular health care monopolies bought out all the religious institututes who used to provide care for the indignent.

A great book about the early days of health care that should be read by any religious person is "My Der and Glorious Physican.

Amazon.com: Dear and Glorious Physician

and

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[
Actually, lost in discussion about health care is how it's none of the federal governments business under any circumstance.

That's what this thread is all about. Health care is not a listed power of congress and thus they don't have it.

 

[Steven_R]

[
Actually, lost in discussion about health care is how it's none of the federal governments business under any circumstance.

That's what this thread is all about. Health care is not a listed power of congress and thus they don't have it.

I agree. Unfortunately the Courts have said it can be shoehorned in one of the nebulous clauses like commerce or necessary or taxation.

Anything goes so long as the Solicitor General can do some mental gymnastics to somehow shape, fold, or spindle blatantly unconstitutional laws into a vague area of the Constitution.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Centuries from now historians will look at the permissiveness of the courts as being the prime factor in the collapse of the United States. Anything goes so far as the court is concerned.

 

[dcraelin]

lost in discussion about health care is how bad a system we have no matter how its paid for.

A very interesting book is Medical Nemesis.
The classic example it gives involves a test set up to test doctors. It went something like this. 100 kids were sent in to see if they needed their tonsils out, the doctors found 30 that needed them out, the remaining 70 were sent to another set of doctors, 20 or so of those supposedly needed them out. It went on until they had a batch of healthy kids down to 10 or 20 that didnt need their tonsils out.

Actually, lost in discussion about health care is how it's none of the federal governments business under any circumstance.

And if the America people want it to be the business of the federal government, then they need to properly amend the Constitution to make healthcare the responsibility of the federal government. But the American people don't want that - and thus the Dumbocrats know they can't get the votes necessary - so they do what they always do and violate the Constitution.

Well I think that under certain circumstances a government involved healthcare system could be constitutional, (the VA is government run), but this setup is a lie built on lies.

 

[PrometheusBound]

by saying that the mandate was ...at some times, for some purposes, (when we want it to be) a tax

the Supreme Idiots were admitting that it passed thru Congress based on a lie. No legislation based on a court confirmed lie should be allowed to stand in a Democracy/Republic

It was judged by the Court to be constitutional under Clause one, the rest is immaterial. If the Congress had claimed it to be constitutional under another clause or clauses and the Court said no but it is Constitutional under clause one, then it is constitutional.
But you raise a good question: does Congress have to declare the clause or clauses of Section Eight when they create a law? Even, if Congress did have to declare a clause, which I doubt, the law would still be constitutional if the Court says it is.
As Justice Hughes said the Constitution is what the Court say it is.

The court made the illogical conclusion that the mandate was not a tax, and a tax at the same time. But regardless of that mistake they should have carried it further, examined the debate in congress and determined that its passage thru congress was based on a lie, a key lie. This, itself should have violated the constitution. After all, we the people are entitled to honest representation.

I am not sure what clause their sophistry was under, just that the key point was that whether the mandate was a tax or not. The opinion was an illogical mess, typical for the political hacks that occupy the federal judiciary.

In this case, the SCROTUS is led by Right Wing hacks. It is logical to conclude that Big Business sees mandated health care as a way to bankrupt their competitors in small businesses. That is the motivation behind all business regulations.

 

[PrometheusBound]

lost in discussion about health care is how bad a system we have no matter how its paid for.

A very interesting book is Medical Nemesis.
The classic example it gives involves a test set up to test doctors. It went something like this. 100 kids were sent in to see if they needed their tonsils out, the doctors found 30 that needed them out, the remaining 70 were sent to another set of doctors, 20 or so of those supposedly needed them out. It went on until they had a batch of healthy kids down to 10 or 20 that didnt need their tonsils out.

A doctor is just a Mama's Boy who didn't earn a living until he was 26. We should have no more respect for these childish bitter Greedheads than we do for a slacker who lives with Mommy and on part-time jobs until he is 26.

 

[PrometheusBound]

lost in discussion about health care is how bad a system we have no matter how its paid for.

A very interesting book is Medical Nemesis.
The classic example it gives involves a test set up to test doctors. It went something like this. 100 kids were sent in to see if they needed their tonsils out, the doctors found 30 that needed them out, the remaining 70 were sent to another set of doctors, 20 or so of those supposedly needed them out. It went on until they had a batch of healthy kids down to 10 or 20 that didnt need their tonsils out.

Actually, lost in discussion about health care is how it's none of the federal governments business under any circumstance.

And if the America people want it to be the business of the federal government, then they need to properly amend the Constitution to make healthcare the responsibility of the federal government. But the American people don't want that - and thus the Dumbocrats know they can't get the votes necessary - so they do what they always do and violate the Constitution.

The American people don't vote on Amendments, only their pre-owned state legislators do. Didn't Michael Vick teach you feral dogs to behave?

 

[PrometheusBound]

[

I agree. Unfortunately the Courts have said it can be shoehorned in one of the nebulous clauses like commerce or necessary or taxation.

Anything goes so long as the Solicitor General can do some mental gymnastics to somehow shape, fold, or spindle blatantly unconstitutional laws into a vague area of the Constitution.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Centuries from now historians will look at the permissiveness of the courts as being the prime factor in the collapse of the United States. Anything goes so far as the court is concerned.

Having an overlord tribunal empowered by an 18th Century anti-democratic manifesto devised behind closed doors is what will cause our national disintegration. Only childish morons who need an infallible secular Bible to tell them how to think should believe in the Constitution.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

[

I agree. Unfortunately the Courts have said it can be shoehorned in one of the nebulous clauses like commerce or necessary or taxation.

And that's where the states need to step in. The constitution gives the states, not the supreme court, authority to nullify unconstitutional laws.

 

[regent]

lost in discussion about health care is how bad a system we have no matter how its paid for.

A very interesting book is Medical Nemesis.
The classic example it gives involves a test set up to test doctors. It went something like this. 100 kids were sent in to see if they needed their tonsils out, the doctors found 30 that needed them out, the remaining 70 were sent to another set of doctors, 20 or so of those supposedly needed them out. It went on until they had a batch of healthy kids down to 10 or 20 that didnt need their tonsils out.

Actually, lost in discussion about health care is how it's none of the federal governments business under any circumstance.

And if the America people want it to be the business of the federal government, then they need to properly amend the Constitution to make healthcare the responsibility of the federal government. But the American people don't want that - and thus the Dumbocrats know they can't get the votes necessary - so they do what they always do and violate the Constitution.

In 1798 the United States government passed a law requiring sailors on merchant ships to buy health insurance. Since this Congress was one of early Congresses under our new Constitution they were well aware of that document.

 

[Wry Catcher]

lost in discussion about health care is how bad a system we have no matter how its paid for.

A very interesting book is Medical Nemesis.
The classic example it gives involves a test set up to test doctors. It went something like this. 100 kids were sent in to see if they needed their tonsils out, the doctors found 30 that needed them out, the remaining 70 were sent to another set of doctors, 20 or so of those supposedly needed them out. It went on until they had a batch of healthy kids down to 10 or 20 that didnt need their tonsils out.

Actually, lost in discussion about health care is how it's none of the federal governments business under any circumstance.

And if the America people want it to be the business of the federal government, then they need to properly amend the Constitution to make healthcare the responsibility of the federal government. But the American people don't want that - and thus the Dumbocrats know they can't get the votes necessary - so they do what they always do and violate the Constitution.

"Actually, lost in discussion about health care is how it's none of the federal governments business under any circumstance."???

Let us suppose that a new pandemic of the Spanish Flu which killed 3-5% of the world's population (1918 - 1920) were to occur today. Does anyone believe such an out break should be treated locally without any national or world wide collaboration?

Have the government haters become so brainwashed that they believe our national government has no business intervening in such an event?

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Let us suppose that a new pandemic of the Spanish Flu which killed 3-5% of the world's population (1918 - 1920) were to occur today. Does anyone believe such an out break should be treated locally without any national or world wide collaboration?

Have the government haters become so brainwashed that they believe our national government has no business intervening in such an event?

Odds are the spanish flu was caused by the world leaders just like WW1 was. You need to grow a brain and recognize that all govts are evil and none of them care about helping you.

 

[idb]

Let us suppose that a new pandemic of the Spanish Flu which killed 3-5% of the world's population (1918 - 1920) were to occur today. Does anyone believe such an out break should be treated locally without any national or world wide collaboration?

Have the government haters become so brainwashed that they believe our national government has no business intervening in such an event?

Odds are the spanish flu was caused by the world leaders just like WW1 was. You need to grow a brain and recognize that all govts are evil and none of them care about helping you.

I just popped by to see how this thread was getting on and I came across this.
Crikey!!!!

 

[NYcarbineer]

Where does the constitution give Congress power to set up national health care?

The same place it gives it the power to set up national monuments.

It doesn't do that either. Care to try again NYC?

(Hint: 2 wrongs do not equal 1 right)

So you're saying that national monuments/parks are unconstitutional, and yet conservatives who might otherwise agree with you are the ones complaining the loudest over our monuments and parks being currently shutdown.

Of course maybe most 'constitutional' conservatives don't really believe what they preach...

 

[Steven_R]

Or maybe they recognize that the parks and monuments do exist and we're not getting rid of them, but it is unfathomable that the administration is going out of its way to block access to them in the manner it has been.

 

[bravoactual]

Where in the Constitution does it give Congress the Right to cut Death Benefits to the Families of Men and Women Killed In Action.

House Republicans were briefed on the loss of that One Hundred Thousand Dollar ($100,000.00) Death Benefit and still moved full steam ahead on the Shut-Down.

The Boner, Ratso Ryan, Cantor KNEW the benefit would be cut and did not give a shit.