Debate Now White Privilege and an Institution of Racism

[Foxfyre]

The liberal social engineering policies of the 50s-70's caused tremendous problems for the black race.
You had whole populations, 1000's even 10,000's of people living in tight quarters with nothing to do all day. I don't care what race those people are - social problems and crime is going to happen. All people become destructive without anything constructive to do and focus on. And that is what happen with inner city blacks. They had nothing to do because everything was given to them. That created a permanent dependent society...forever seeing themselves as deserving of special treatment.
Today there has been an absolute vacuum of positive role players in their culture. Black leadership is full of self-serving inciters using "the cause" to enrich themselves and by all means keep the fires of discontent alive and well.

And you have to include self-serving white people who benefit from keeping the black folk on that cultural plantation too.

But you recapped what I think happened in the 'Great Society" initiatives that fueled modern day 'progressivism' and its focus on entitlement and victim mentality. We so focused on one particular demographic that was actually progressing economically faster than any other at the time, and turned it into an angry, bitter, frustrated, and self-destructive demographic.

And the reason I don't and won't buy into Tank's theory of biological causes for that is because I see too many bright, capable, successful, black people who refused to be put on that cultural plantation. And they are all doing just fine.

 

[Foxfyre]

It's not cultural, it's biological

I just don't believe that Tank. I believe there is simply no justification to believe it.

Do you believe in Evolution?

Yep. And I believe all people of all ethnicities and races evolved pretty well equally. The differences I see are 99% cultural, not biological.

 

[Tank]

Sure their are many fine black folks but they are the exception to the rule

 

[Tank]

Yep. And I believe all people of all ethnicities and races evolved pretty well equally. The differences I see are 99% cultural, not biological.

What is the 1% biological you see?

 

[SeaGal]

I wonder if it is lack of jobs that create the situation though Seagal? Or the situation that created the lack of jobs?

There's enough evidence to convince me the decline in the auto industry was the beginning of the end for Detroit...with the exception of Motown, Detroit was pretty much a one industry city. The race riots in the late '60's didn't help, the growth of suburbia added to the problem. Of course that's just the 'highlights'.

Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams are two brilliant columnists (among other accomplishments) who grew up in the Jim Crow era. Their bios are interesting. One wrote, tongue in cheek, that he was very grateful he got to grow up before white men decided to take black men under their wing. The other writes of growing up in public housing when nearly all the families had two parents, and nearly all the dads worked. Both Sowell and Williams have penned their belief that an unintended consequence of the welfare state was to make the black man irrelevant to the family.

I do not have the answer, I don't even know all the questions - but I can suggest three immediate actions, at least one already mentioned. (Actually the following should apply to any and all on public assistance.) Able bodied, incl. women, must work for 'benefits'. SNAP can be used for nutritional foods only, kinda like WIC. Vouchers for inner city kids. None of these are a panacea - they are but a start.

What to do about the race hustlers I do not know - as the economic situation improves we can hope they go the way of the dinosaur and the snake oil salesman.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

It is very hard to change behavior of an individual when there are enablers.
And for the black race, there is the entire main stream media and liberals who refuse to even acknowledge the completely lop-sided criminal acts of blacks, especially violent offenders.
And then you have the race hustlers, who never fall short of MSM cameras and microphones always on the wing to broadcast their hate-filled rhetoric.
Think of any miscreant....any 20 something kid still acting like a teenager, has not joined society...is self destructive and self defeating - and you will always find an enabler...usually their mother or girlfriend. Always excusing their behavior...always giving them an out, not to mention financially supporting their ass.

 

[Foxfyre]

Yep. And I believe all people of all ethnicities and races evolved pretty well equally. The differences I see are 99% cultural, not biological.

What is the 1% biological you see?

Different races do seem to have some inate abilities that others don't have as much of. Witness the unusually high percentage of Asians who excel in mathematics and science--mostly cultural I am sure but I suspect some genetics could be at play too.

And it is undeniable that an unusually out of proportion representation of sports elite are black people, and that almost has to be a biological factor.

I am sure I could come up with other examples but that's enough for illustrations.

 

[Foxfyre]

I wonder if it is lack of jobs that create the situation though Seagal? Or the situation that created the lack of jobs?

There's enough evidence to convince me the decline in the auto industry was the beginning of the end for Detroit...with the exception of Motown, Detroit was pretty much a one industry city. The race riots in the late '60's didn't help, the growth of suburbia added to the problem. Of course that's just the 'highlights'.

Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams are two brilliant columnists (among other accomplishments) who grew up in the Jim Crow era. Their bios are interesting. One wrote, tongue in cheek, that he was very grateful he got to grow up before white men decided to take black men under their wing. The other writes of growing up in public housing when nearly all the families had two parents, and nearly all the dads worked. Both Sowell and Williams have penned their belief that an unintended consequence of the welfare state was to make the black man irrelevant to the family.

I do not have the answer, I don't even know all the questions - but I can suggest three immediate actions, at least one already mentioned. (Actually the following should apply to any and all on public assistance.) Able bodied, incl. women, must work for 'benefits'. SNAP can be used for nutritional foods only, kinda like WIC. Vouchers for inner city kids. None of these are a panacea - they are but a start.

What to do about the race hustlers I do not know - as the economic situation improves we can hope they go the way of the dinosaur and the snake oil salesman.

Can't improve on that except that we all need to work hard to expose and call out the race hustlers every time they surface until they become so socially unacceptable, even their victims can see it.

(I am a passionate Sowell and Williams fan too. )

 

[Foxfyre]

Sure their are many fine black folks but they are the exception to the rule

I don't think they are the exception at all. I just think the race baiters have created an unusually large representation of black people stuck on the so-call progressive plantation.

 

[Foxfyre]

It is very hard to change behavior of an individual when there are enablers.
And for the black race, there is the entire main stream media and liberals who refuse to even acknowledge the completely lop-sided criminal acts of blacks, especially violent offenders.
And then you have the race hustlers, who never fall short of MSM cameras and microphones always on the wing to broadcast their hate-filled rhetoric.
Think of any miscreant....any 20 something kid still acting like a teenager, has not joined society...is self destructive and self defeating - and you will always find an enabler...usually their mother or girlfriend. Always excusing their behavior...always giving them an out, not to mention financially supporting their ass.

So if that is the problem, what is the solution?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

It is very hard to change behavior of an individual when there are enablers.
And for the black race, there is the entire main stream media and liberals who refuse to even acknowledge the completely lop-sided criminal acts of blacks, especially violent offenders.
And then you have the race hustlers, who never fall short of MSM cameras and microphones always on the wing to broadcast their hate-filled rhetoric.
Think of any miscreant....any 20 something kid still acting like a teenager, has not joined society...is self destructive and self defeating - and you will always find an enabler...usually their mother or girlfriend. Always excusing their behavior...always giving them an out, not to mention financially supporting their ass.

So if that is the problem, what is the solution?

The solution is two-fold...for the left to STOP the "white guilt" attitude. STOP excusing/ignoring/marginalizing extreme amoral cultural behavior. And stop financially supporting with no strings attached.
Two - the media to STOP ignoring the fact that the majority of their plight today is self created. And START ignoring the race hustlers. They have to stop giving these people a platform to incite the continuation of discontent.
Have you ever noticed that when black notables who DO speak out against the violence and dependence are lambasted by the left and the MSM??

 

[Foxfyre]

It is very hard to change behavior of an individual when there are enablers.
And for the black race, there is the entire main stream media and liberals who refuse to even acknowledge the completely lop-sided criminal acts of blacks, especially violent offenders.
And then you have the race hustlers, who never fall short of MSM cameras and microphones always on the wing to broadcast their hate-filled rhetoric.
Think of any miscreant....any 20 something kid still acting like a teenager, has not joined society...is self destructive and self defeating - and you will always find an enabler...usually their mother or girlfriend. Always excusing their behavior...always giving them an out, not to mention financially supporting their ass.

So if that is the problem, what is the solution?

The solution is two-fold...for the left to STOP the "white guilt" attitude. STOP excusing/ignoring/marginalizing extreme amoral cultural behavior. And stop financially supporting with no strings attached.
Two - the media to STOP ignoring the fact that the majority of their plight today is self created. And START ignoring the race hustlers. They have to stop giving these people a platform to incite the continuation of discontent.
Have you ever noticed that when black notables who DO speak out against the violence and dependence are lambasted by the left and the MSM??

Oh for sure. Anybody who happens to be black who doesn't toe the rules for the 'plantation blacks' will be exacerbated, ridiculed, demeaned, called 'hanky heads' or 'uncle tom's' or worse. Recently one of the black race baiters referred to such people as 'mediocre Negros' on CNN.

Can you imagine the media uproar and feeding frenzy if somebody on the right had used the term 'mediocre Negroes'?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

It is very hard to change behavior of an individual when there are enablers.
And for the black race, there is the entire main stream media and liberals who refuse to even acknowledge the completely lop-sided criminal acts of blacks, especially violent offenders.
And then you have the race hustlers, who never fall short of MSM cameras and microphones always on the wing to broadcast their hate-filled rhetoric.
Think of any miscreant....any 20 something kid still acting like a teenager, has not joined society...is self destructive and self defeating - and you will always find an enabler...usually their mother or girlfriend. Always excusing their behavior...always giving them an out, not to mention financially supporting their ass.

So if that is the problem, what is the solution?

The solution is two-fold...for the left to STOP the "white guilt" attitude. STOP excusing/ignoring/marginalizing extreme amoral cultural behavior. And stop financially supporting with no strings attached.
Two - the media to STOP ignoring the fact that the majority of their plight today is self created. And START ignoring the race hustlers. They have to stop giving these people a platform to incite the continuation of discontent.
Have you ever noticed that when black notables who DO speak out against the violence and dependence are lambasted by the left and the MSM??

Oh for sure. Anybody who happens to be black who doesn't toe the rules for the 'plantation blacks' will be exacerbated, ridiculed, demeaned, called 'hanky heads' or 'uncle tom's' or worse. Recently one of the black race baiters referred to such people as 'mediocre Negros' on CNN.

Can you imagine the media uproar and feeding frenzy if somebody on the right had used the term 'mediocre Negroes'?

It would be headlines for days

 

[Foxfyre]

Right now Barack and Michelle Obama are having tea with Donald and Melania Trump at the White House. No cameras. No press. I don't know if there will be a photographer, but if there is it will be obvious that there are two black people and two white people having tea though none of them will probably even think about that this morning.

It wasn't so long ago that would have been an amazing thing to see. The fact that it is the current President and his wife having a cordial and private tea with the President-elect and his wife makes it even more amazing to me.

But I believe that is the way that racism is sent to the history books once and for all and forever.

 

[Andylusion]

I wonder if it is lack of jobs that create the situation though Seagal? Or the situation that created the lack of jobs?

There's enough evidence to convince me the decline in the auto industry was the beginning of the end for Detroit...with the exception of Motown, Detroit was pretty much a one industry city. The race riots in the late '60's didn't help, the growth of suburbia added to the problem. Of course that's just the 'highlights'.

Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams are two brilliant columnists (among other accomplishments) who grew up in the Jim Crow era. Their bios are interesting. One wrote, tongue in cheek, that he was very grateful he got to grow up before white men decided to take black men under their wing. The other writes of growing up in public housing when nearly all the families had two parents, and nearly all the dads worked. Both Sowell and Williams have penned their belief that an unintended consequence of the welfare state was to make the black man irrelevant to the family.

I do not have the answer, I don't even know all the questions - but I can suggest three immediate actions, at least one already mentioned. (Actually the following should apply to any and all on public assistance.) Able bodied, incl. women, must work for 'benefits'. SNAP can be used for nutritional foods only, kinda like WIC. Vouchers for inner city kids. None of these are a panacea - they are but a start.

What to do about the race hustlers I do not know - as the economic situation improves we can hope they go the way of the dinosaur and the snake oil salesman.

I'm confused... what was the decline in the auto industry? Last year was a record year in auto industry sales world wide, which would include Ford, and GM.

Moreover, last year was a record year in auto sales in the US.

When was this decline in the auto industry?

The bigger problem for Detroit was left-wing politics, and the rise of drug gangs. For almost 10 years, massive quality problems plagued manufacturing in Detroit because people would get high on Friday, and come down on Monday. Resulting in Monday and Friday built cars to have issues.

There's a documentary about it, because after the race riots, police were less inclined to deal with the drug gangs.

Which by the way, is direct repeat of what is happening today in Chicago. After the BLM protests, police stopped policing which isn't surprising.

Between the drugs and crime, and the pro-union policies, it isn't surprising Detroit killed itself.

Beyond that, I completely agree with everything you posted. I too read the bios for those men, and I find what they said, matches my experience talking with people today about welfare and so on.

 

[SeaGal]

I'm confused... what was the decline in the auto industry? Last year was a record year in auto industry sales world wide, which would include Ford, and GM.

Apologize for any confusion. I understand that the auto industry is alive and well globally. My reference was Detroit specific with resulting job migration which had an economic domino effect...which I believe I stated was the beginning of the end. Time frame pre-dates the riots - but not at all am I discounting the effects of those and other events. Joblessness is a contributing factor to civil unrest...and all the resulting problems. That's not meant as an excuse - an observation only.

 

[Foxfyre]

I'm confused... what was the decline in the auto industry? Last year was a record year in auto industry sales world wide, which would include Ford, and GM.

Apologize for any confusion. I understand that the auto industry is alive and well globally. My reference was Detroit specific with resulting job migration which had an economic domino effect...which I believe I stated was the beginning of the end. Time frame pre-dates the riots - but not at all am I discounting the effects of those and other events. Joblessness is a contributing factor to civil unrest...and all the resulting problems. That's not meant as an excuse - an observation only.

And I don't think it was the decline of the auto industry that brought down Detroit. I think the decline of the auto industry happened because of urban renewal and destruction of old vital neighborhoods of not wealthy but happy, productive people that provided good labor for the auto industry. So Detroit has become like so many other big cities--shiny and prosperous at the center that the politicians like to show off--but sad, angry, rat infested, crime ridden poverty around the edges that are kept out of sight.

Here is an excellent short history regarding that very thing--it focuses on Hastings Street in Detroit that was destroyed during the urban renewal of the 1950's, part of Johnson's Great Society though Eisenhower's highway program was also a factor. Hastings Street was essentially destroyed and its residents forced into the projects where it was impossible to re-create the vitality and prosperity of the old neighborhood.

Excerpt:

. . .Detroit’s Hastings Street was a place buzzing with activity and a hub for African American economic opportunity throughout the mid-twentieth century, where a Black shopper could get anything and everything he wanted. Filled with African American-owned shops, restaurants, theaters, and clubs, it was the backbone of Black Bottom. Blacks were able to operate hospitals and practice medicine. Some of the other businesses that flourished along Hastings Street included a string of hotels and night spots; a grocery store, a cleaners, and a pool hall. However, the narrative of economic progress for blacks is not the most important component of this street’s rich history. On Hastings Street a Black man could actually feel like a man – he had the freedom to operate his own business and in many ways shape the society around him through the businesses he created. . .​

Urban Renewal and the Destruction of Black Bottom | Environmental History in Detroit

 

[SeaGal]

And I don't think it was the decline of the auto industry that brought down Detroit.

Neither do I, all by itself - but to discount what was going on with the auto industry as a contributive factor is to not tell the whole story, imho.

Decline of Detroit - Wikipedia

 

[Foxfyre]

Sounds like you're training a pet

No. Training children of whatever race, ethnicity, et al,, in basic human truths of how success is achieved.

Kids should grow up seeing Dad and/or Mom getting up in the morning, getting himself and/or herself cleaned up and going out to work for an honest paycheck and the self pride that goes with that. The shouldn't grow up being inadvertently taught that it's not so bad if you don't work because the government will see to it that you are fed and housed, etc.

And kids who have a responsible mom and dad in the home--which was the norm instead of the exception until the Great Society--have a huge leg up on whether they will achieve personal and economic success. The last statistics I saw were that 70-72% of black females are single parents compared to 17% for Asians and 25% for white people. And single parenthood is the No. 1 cause of child poverty with everything else a far distant second, third etc.

Disclaimer: I am not saying single parents are incapable of being good parents. Many do a wonderful job raising their kids. But the kids are at a disadvantage when they don't have male and female role models in the home. And much more so when the parents are poor and hooked on alcohol or drugs.

Before the Great Society, single parenthood among black people was about the same as all other groups and single parents in all groups were 10-20% at most.

The formula for success is the same regardless of whether a person is black, white, or any other race/ethnicity.

 

[Foxfyre]

And I don't think it was the decline of the auto industry that brought down Detroit.

Neither do I, all by itself - but to discount what was going on with the auto industry as a contributive factor is to not tell the whole story, imho.

Decline of Detroit - Wikipedia

Gotta give you a gentle rap with a fluffy ruler on that one SeaGal. Thread rules require that you excerpt something showing the point you intend the reader to see or explain it in your own words when you post a link. The purpose of that rule is that some members will just post link after link, often to highly biased or massive amounts of text that nobody is going to read, and call that an argument. I hasten to add that you certainly have not been guilty of that, but rules iz rules and all that.

Anyhow, I did read through the Wiki article, but whoever wrote it missed what the writer of the article I wrote saw. The Wiki article infers that it was the inability of black people to access the suburbs that was the problem. (It did touch on the fact that urban renewal did disadvantage black people somewhat, but IMO it did not put enough importance on that.)

My article clearly showed that before the Great Society and urban renewal, even during segregation, the black people were doing just fine without any help from white people. And I think we have to think really hard about that. It is a strong lesson in the old saw of beware of those who say "I am from the government and I am here to help you."