Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[Mindful]

A Palestinian human rights advocate.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestinians rejected that back then and reject it now. And they have every right to do so.

Interesting concept.

From where does the legal or moral right to reject another people’s self-determination arise?

Be specific.

The right to self determination applies to the people of the place not to people from someplace else.

Link?

 

[Sixties Fan]

What kind of hospital allows a family to mercilessly beat a patient under the excuse of doing an "exorcism"?

And what kind of hospital would release her afterwards after seeing her family treat her this way?

The good news is that this story is all over Arabic social media since Friday, and in regular Arab news media as well. Years of feminists in the Arab world and coverage by Western media of "honor" crimes has shamed most Arabs into accepting that the old way of treating women is unacceptable and the outrage is a sign that things can change in the Arab world - but it requires the West to shame the Arabs into doing something to change.

The bad news is that there is still a long way to go. This interview with Palestinian human rights activist Dr. Omar Rahhal from late 2018 describes the issue:

(full article online)

A horrific Palestinian honor killing, the reaction in Arab social media and the larger problem ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[Sixties Fan]

He's said this before, also in context of a political campaign. No timeframe or details are given.


Saeb Erekat's response is classic, though:

Erekat considered that Netanyahu's public statement of annexation of all settlements on the West Bank posed not only a threat to the Palestinian people but a threat to the entire international system. And it would open the horizons in alliance with the Trump administration to completely overthrow the international system and create a system of power and hegemony.


Locusts and pestilence can't be far behind.

(full article online)

PLO's @ErakatSaeb says Israel applying sovereignty to settlements will be the end of the world as we know it. (I feel fine.) ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

What a crock. A (human) "right" is NOT tied to a place of origin or a people of a certain heritage. The "right of self-determination" wherein an "idea" of man becomes a common idea of a collective (population) has no territorial limiting factor. The people of America, Germany, and those people of the Middle East, all have the "right to self-determination;" that is the actualization of an idea. All people everywhere (the expression of self) have the right to actualize their idea (the expression of determination).

The Palestinians rejected that back then and reject it now. And they have every right to do so.

Interesting concept.

From where does the legal or moral right to reject another people’s self-determination arise?

Be specific.

The right to self determination applies to the people of the place not to people from someplace else.

(COMMENT)

The concept of "self-determination" is more often than not, applied to the political policy of allowing people to move from the status of being "non-self-governing" to that of "self-governing." More often then not, in politics, the application of actualizing "self-determination" is destructive in nature (even lethal). The execution of Charles I (England), the execution of King Louis XVI (indeed much of the French aristocracy), the execution of Tsar Nicholas II (indeed the Imperial Romanov family), the execution of King Faisal II (including the Royal Family members), and so on. These are all examples of the population exercising their "right of self-determination" by altering one form of government for another.

There is nothing unique about the transition of power through the "right of self-determination" in the Middle East. The mantra of the "right to self-determination" and their claim to legitimize the use of terrorism (by all means necessary → the ends justify the means) is just as blood-thirsty as any of the other transition in government I have mentioned. One needs to examine idea held by the Arab Palestinians (remembering Black September and the attempt to overthrow the King) is not all that different from the capture and murder of leaders (and their families given the opportunity).

The question of legal and moral rights to accept or reject deterministic courses of action are people-based decisions. And it is often helped along by psychopathic personalities looking for wealth and power. It is why, even today, the Arab Palestinian People have been unable to transition their government after elections more than a decade ago.

........
Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

What a crock. A (human) "right" is NOT tied to a place of origin or a people of a certain heritage. The "right of self-determination" wherein an "idea" of man becomes a common idea of a collective (population) has no territorial limiting factor. The people of America, Germany, and those people of the Middle East, all have the "right to self-determination;" that is the actualization of an idea. All people everywhere (the expression of self) have the right to actualize their idea (the expression of determination).

The Palestinians rejected that back then and reject it now. And they have every right to do so.

Interesting concept.

From where does the legal or moral right to reject another people’s self-determination arise?

Be specific.

The right to self determination applies to the people of the place not to people from someplace else.

(COMMENT)

The concept of "self-determination" is more often than not, applied to the political policy of allowing people to move from the status of being "non-self-governing" to that of "self-governing." More often then not, in politics, the application of actualizing "self-determination" is destructive in nature (even lethal). The execution of Charles I (England), the execution of King Louis XVI (indeed much of the French aristocracy), the execution of Tsar Nicholas II (indeed the Imperial Romanov family), the execution of King Faisal II (including the Royal Family members), and so on. These are all examples of the population exercising their "right of self-determination" by altering one form of government for another.

There is nothing unique about the transition of power through the "right of self-determination" in the Middle East. The mantra of the "right to self-determination" and their claim to legitimize the use of terrorism (by all means necessary → the ends justify the means) is just as blood-thirsty as any of the other transition in government I have mentioned. One needs to examine idea held by the Arab Palestinians (remembering Black September and the attempt to overthrow the King) is not all that different from the capture and murder of leaders (and their families given the opportunity).

The question of legal and moral rights to accept or reject deterministic courses of action are people-based decisions. And it is often helped along by psychopathic personalities looking for wealth and power. It is why, even today, the Arab Palestinian People have been unable to transition their government after elections more than a decade ago.

........View attachment 276938
Most Respectfully,
R

So if the Mexicans in the US got the world on their side they could claim self determination in the US?

Yes? No?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I invite you to look at the example. But I am not surprised that you jump right to a confrontational question.

(COMMENT) One needs to examine idea held by the Arab Palestinians (remembering Black September and the attempt to overthrow the King) is not all that different from the capture and murder of leaders (and their families given the opportunity).

So if the Mexicans in the US got the world on their side they could claim self determination in the US?

Yes? No?

(COMMENT)

It is a very rare nation in the world that does not have laws pertaining to treason.

If the Latino population, with the support of other Americans, overthrew the government in Washington, that would be an example of a successful demonstration of self-determination. Latinos being an ethnic element of the American population.

Your question, Mexican + World is an example of sedition, treason, and attack on America.

........
Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

The Palestinians rejected that back then and reject it now. And they have every right to do so.

Interesting concept.

From where does the legal or moral right to reject another people’s self-determination arise?

Be specific.

The right to self determination applies to the people of the place not to people from someplace else.

Link?

Deflection.

 

[Hollie]

In the alternate reality of Islamic psychopaths, it’s not surprising that Hamas would display classic patterns of behaviors associated with such mental illness.



Hamas: Israel responsible for terror attacks in Gaza
Hamas: Israel responsible for terror attacks in Gaza

Islamic extremists carried out suicide bombings in Gaza City. Hamas claims they 'sold their souls' to Israel.

 

[Hollie]

Sooo, they just can’t decide.


https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/09/01/hamas-accuses-pa-for-double-suicide-bombing-in-gaza/

Hamas on Sunday morning accused the Palestinian Authority's intelligence service of being behind the suicide bombings in Gaza last Tuesday in which three Hamas policemen were killed and six others were wounded, London based Arabic newspaper Asharq al-Awsat reported.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Sooo, they just can’t decide.


https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/09/01/hamas-accuses-pa-for-double-suicide-bombing-in-gaza/

Hamas on Sunday morning accused the Palestinian Authority's intelligence service of being behind the suicide bombings in Gaza last Tuesday in which three Hamas policemen were killed and six others were wounded, London based Arabic newspaper Asharq al-Awsat reported.

The families are saying, "That sucks! If only they had been killed by Israel they would be called martyrs to the cause and we would have been paid more money by the PA than we had ever seen before."

The lesson the Palestinians will draw from this incident is that they should hurry up and be killed by Israel before one of their brother Palestinians does them in.

 

[Rigby5]

This should be obvious without even being told, because there obviously is no legal way the British could have given Palestine to the immigrant European Jews even if they wanted to. The vast majority has always been native Arab Muslims. The UN totally screwed up by giving 55% of Palestine to the 30% Jewish immigrant population.
It was illegal and immoral to start with, and made even worse by Jews not allowing the refugees who fled the violence, to return to their own homes in 1949.

Of course the British did not "give" territory to the Jewish people. The Jewish people -- by way of rights to self-determination in reconstituting their nation -- developed self-governing institutions and declared independence. Nothing "illegal" about it. Its the same way all new States come into being post WWII.

That is silly, because if you examine the census data before 1890, you find the Jewish population of Palestine was about 1% Jewish only.
After the Roman Disapora decree, and the Crusades, essentially there were no Jews living in the Land of Canaan.
Almost all the Jews now living in Israel, are descendants of illegal immigrants who sneaked into the country after 1930, and have absolutely no land ownership rights at all.
Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia

Jews have no legal ownership of hardly any land in Israel or Palestine, and are illegally occupying it by force, murder, and extortion.

 

[Rigby5]

The Palestinians rejected that back then and reject it now. And they have every right to do so.

Interesting concept.

From where does the legal or moral right to reject another people’s self-determination arise?

Be specific.

The right of self determination comes from being native, indigenous, and purchasing and improving land.
That applies to native Arab Moslem Palestinians, but not illegal Jewish European immigrants.

 

[Rigby5]

Sooo, they just can’t decide.


https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/09/01/hamas-accuses-pa-for-double-suicide-bombing-in-gaza/

Hamas on Sunday morning accused the Palestinian Authority's intelligence service of being behind the suicide bombings in Gaza last Tuesday in which three Hamas policemen were killed and six others were wounded, London based Arabic newspaper Asharq al-Awsat reported.

The families are saying, "That sucks! If only they had been killed by Israel they would be called martyrs to the cause and we would have been paid more money by the PA than we had ever seen before."

The lesson the Palestinians will draw from this incident is that they should hurry up and be killed by Israel before one of their brother Palestinians does them in.

Wrong.
The bombing in Gaza were carried out by Iraqi members of ISIS, and not Palestinians.

 

[Rigby5]

What kind of hospital allows a family to mercilessly beat a patient under the excuse of doing an "exorcism"?

And what kind of hospital would release her afterwards after seeing her family treat her this way?

The good news is that this story is all over Arabic social media since Friday, and in regular Arab news media as well. Years of feminists in the Arab world and coverage by Western media of "honor" crimes has shamed most Arabs into accepting that the old way of treating women is unacceptable and the outrage is a sign that things can change in the Arab world - but it requires the West to shame the Arabs into doing something to change.

The bad news is that there is still a long way to go. This interview with Palestinian human rights activist Dr. Omar Rahhal from late 2018 describes the issue:

(full article online)

A horrific Palestinian honor killing, the reaction in Arab social media and the larger problem ~ Elder Of Ziyon - Israel News

And how is this relevant to anything?
Sure I dislike the old traditions where women do not have equal rights, but Islam is better than Judaism at women's rights.
Islam is Judaism only with reformations to acknowledge that women has souls, can inherit, divorce, etc.
Women have no rights in the Jewish Old Testament.

 

[Rigby5]

In the alternate reality of Islamic psychopaths, it’s not surprising that Hamas would display classic patterns of behaviors associated with such mental illness.



Hamas: Israel responsible for terror attacks in Gaza
Hamas: Israel responsible for terror attacks in Gaza

Islamic extremists carried out suicide bombings in Gaza City. Hamas claims they 'sold their souls' to Israel.

It is quite possible that Israel is behind the ISIS attacks because ISIS has no cleric backing.
It appears ISIS is a fake organization, possibly started by the US.

 

[Shusha]

Jews have no legal ownership of hardly any land in Israel or Palestine,

Sigh. Again.

Private land ownership has nothing to do with sovereignty.

 

[Hollie]

In the alternate reality of Islamic psychopaths, it’s not surprising that Hamas would display classic patterns of behaviors associated with such mental illness.



Hamas: Israel responsible for terror attacks in Gaza
Hamas: Israel responsible for terror attacks in Gaza

Islamic extremists carried out suicide bombings in Gaza City. Hamas claims they 'sold their souls' to Israel.

It is quite possible that Israel is behind the ISIS attacks because ISIS has no cleric backing.
It appears ISIS is a fake organization, possibly started by the US.

What do you think is served by these silly conspiracy theories?

 

[Shusha]

After the Roman Disapora decree, and the Crusades, essentially there were no Jews living in the Land of Canaan.

Yes. The Jewish people were murdered and ethnically cleansed from their traditional indigenous territory. Then they returned.

 

[Shusha]

The right of self determination comes from being native, indigenous, and purchasing and improving land.
That applies to native Arab Moslem Palestinians, but not illegal Jewish European immigrants.

You have inverted reality.