Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[Toddsterpatriot]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: The generalized answer is: Through the Right of Self-Determination, Israel Declared Independence.

The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949 (Pages 9, 10): On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.

(Page 12) On 11 May 1949, Israel became a Member of the United Nations. In admitting Israel, the General Assembly specifically took note of Israel’s declarations and explanations made earlier to the Assembly’s Ad Hoc Political Committee regarding the implementation of resolutions 181 (II) and 194 (III). Those declarations and explanations referred, among other things, to the international regime envisaged for Jerusalem, the problem of Arab refugees and boundary questions.
SOURCE: UN Bluebook - Question of Palestine •

Interesting. How did Israel acquire this territory and this sovereignty?
Links?

(COMMENT)

Foreign relations of Israel
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ...

Israel has diplomatic relations with 162 of the 193 UN member states as of December 2019. Israel maintains full diplomatic relations and open borders with two of its Arab neighbours, Egypt and Jordan, after signing peace treaties in 1979 and 1994 respectively.


Most Respectfully,
R

Fierce hostilities immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities.

Do you mean between the natives and settlers?

The next day, regular troops of the neighboring Arab States entered the territory to assist the Palestinian Arabs.

The propaganda states that Arab armies attacked Israel. This is not true. The Arab armies fought Israeli forces in Palestine.

Do you mean between the natives and settlers?

Between the winners and the Arabs.

The Arab armies fought Israeli forces in Palestine.

And got their asses kicked.

 

[Hollie]

More of the usual Death Cult threats and provocation.

With Hamas and PIJ getting Iranian welfare checks, the islamic terrorists in Fatah may be feeling a bit sidelined.

Did PA and Fatah officials threaten terror against Israel?

Itamar Marcus and Nan Jacques Zilberdik | Jan 14, 2020
PA religious leader:

• Use “all forms” of resistance "wisely and intelligently"

Fatah official:

• “We must… shake the foundations of Israel… Necessity permits that which is forbidden”
• “The popular resistance ‎will amaze the world, as we are content with Martyrdom. We want to die as we did at Karameh”

Well honestly guys, if you want to die, you can bend and scrape before the Iranian Mullocrats. They will be happy to put you on their welfare payroll as a way to increase the numbers of dead Sunni Arabs.

 

[Hollie]

It really is remarkable that the UNRWA welfare fraud continues despite the demonstrated fraud and abuse of the program.

Arabs-Moslems seem to have a peculiar inabiity to join the relevant first world and be contributors as opposed to continually creating the disasters and pratfalls that define their existence.


https://embassies.gov.il/un/statements/security_council/Pages/UNRWA-address.aspx

In other words: the vast majority of UNRWA beneficiaries do not meet the recognized criteria for what constitutes a refugee under international law. No other refugee population in the world enjoys this same privilege. Why, then, does UNRWA grant its beneficiaries all of this special treatment?

 

[Hollie]

The next generation of disposable islamics.



Raising child soldiers
Hamas Child Soldiers Graduate from 'Summer Camp'

Military drills, weapons training and rockets - Hamas celebrates next generation of terrorists at summer camp graduation.

Hamas child recruits
Reuters

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,

I find it hard to believe, but I guess it is true. Our friend ""will not accept any other version on matters of ground truth, except those that support his position.

Silly conspiracy theories.

(COMMENT)

I directly quoted from the UN Blue Book • History, and he contradicts them with his version of justification.

On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.

That is not true.

His version is the only acceptable version. Nothing the UN produces is reliable; even those facts stipulated as a matter of record for public consumption.

There was proposed territory and borders by the partition plan but the plan was never implemented.

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

So, you can only impress the reality pertaining to the issues at hand so many times before it becomes useless to repeat them to the blind, deaf and dumb.

This is much like the perception that the Arab League carried in the unlawful intervention into the domestic matters undergoing in the Trustee Territory to which the Arab Palestinians emphatically declined to participate in.

Ruses of War are considered permissible: art. 24 of the Hague Convention on
Land Warfare of 1907 ( 205 C.T.S. 277 ). Ruses of war are defined in art. 37(2) of Protocol I
Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 of 8 June 1977 ( 1125 U.N.T.S. 3 )
as ‘acts which are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but
which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not
perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection
under that law’. The same article provides examples of ruses of war: ‘the use of
camouflage, decoys, mock operations and misinformation’.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,

I find it hard to believe, but I guess it is true. Our friend ""will not accept any other version on matters of ground truth, except those that support his position.

Silly conspiracy theories.

(COMMENT)

I directly quoted from the UN Blue Book • History, and he contradicts them with his version of justification.

On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.

That is not true.

His version is the only acceptable version. Nothing the UN produces is reliable; even those facts stipulated as a matter of record for public consumption.

There was proposed territory and borders by the partition plan but the plan was never implemented.

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

So, you can only impress the reality pertaining to the issues at hand so many times before it becomes useless to repeat them to the blind, deaf and dumb.

This is much like the perception that the Arab League carried in the unlawful intervention into the domestic matters undergoing in the Trustee Territory to which the Arab Palestinians emphatically declined to participate in.

Ruses of War are considered permissible: art. 24 of the Hague Convention on
Land Warfare of 1907 ( 205 C.T.S. 277 ). Ruses of war are defined in art. 37(2) of Protocol I
Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 of 8 June 1977 ( 1125 U.N.T.S. 3 )
as ‘acts which are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but
which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not
perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection
under that law’. The same article provides examples of ruses of war: ‘the use of
camouflage, decoys, mock operations and misinformation’.

Most Respectfully,
R

Our friend PF Tinmore does have his own version of history. Much like the 200 + times he has cut and pasted a parsed version of the Treaty of Lausanne, insisting that document created his imagined "country of Pal'istan". Most of us would be too embarrassed to even think of perpetuating a fraud like that.

I suppose that not fact, not truth and not a reality based worldview will be allowed to impose itself upon an identifiable few in these thread.

 

[Hollie]

The lovely Abdel was carrying on about some alleged, impending gee-had that Yasser Arafat may have been whispering in his ear. Maybe he's hearing voices, who knows.

Otherwise, what's with these islamic terrorist knuckle draggers using the "revolutionary" prefix for their Death Cult clubs? Not much revolutionary about a totalitarian politico- religious ideology invented by a 7th century Arab warlord and which ideology has been largely static since that time.



"Fatah Revolutionary Council Member Abdel-Elah Atira: Arafat Hinted to Us to Start the Intifada"

 

[Hollie]

Knuckleheads burning paper mache models. Next, they'll fashion dolls in the likeness of israelis and plunge large needles into them. Bloody chickens feet next?




"Fatah Anniversary Ceremony: Pledges to take up arms; Model Israeli Settlement Set on Fire"

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,

I find it hard to believe, but I guess it is true. Our friend ""will not accept any other version on matters of ground truth, except those that support his position.

Silly conspiracy theories.

(COMMENT)

I directly quoted from the UN Blue Book • History, and he contradicts them with his version of justification.

On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.

That is not true.

His version is the only acceptable version. Nothing the UN produces is reliable; even those facts stipulated as a matter of record for public consumption.

There was proposed territory and borders by the partition plan but the plan was never implemented.

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

So, you can only impress the reality pertaining to the issues at hand so many times before it becomes useless to repeat them to the blind, deaf and dumb.

This is much like the perception that the Arab League carried in the unlawful intervention into the domestic matters undergoing in the Trustee Territory to which the Arab Palestinians emphatically declined to participate in.

Ruses of War are considered permissible: art. 24 of the Hague Convention on
Land Warfare of 1907 ( 205 C.T.S. 277 ). Ruses of war are defined in art. 37(2) of Protocol I
Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 of 8 June 1977 ( 1125 U.N.T.S. 3 )
as ‘acts which are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but
which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not
perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection
under that law’. The same article provides examples of ruses of war: ‘the use of
camouflage, decoys, mock operations and misinformation’.

Most Respectfully,
R

In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)
What happened to those proposed borders?
What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
What happened to the UN control of military forces?
What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?

That should be enough questions to duck for now.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,

I find it hard to believe, but I guess it is true. Our friend ""will not accept any other version on matters of ground truth, except those that support his position.

Silly conspiracy theories.

(COMMENT)

I directly quoted from the UN Blue Book • History, and he contradicts them with his version of justification.

On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.

That is not true.

His version is the only acceptable version. Nothing the UN produces is reliable; even those facts stipulated as a matter of record for public consumption.

There was proposed territory and borders by the partition plan but the plan was never implemented.

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

So, you can only impress the reality pertaining to the issues at hand so many times before it becomes useless to repeat them to the blind, deaf and dumb.

This is much like the perception that the Arab League carried in the unlawful intervention into the domestic matters undergoing in the Trustee Territory to which the Arab Palestinians emphatically declined to participate in.

Ruses of War are considered permissible: art. 24 of the Hague Convention on
Land Warfare of 1907 ( 205 C.T.S. 277 ). Ruses of war are defined in art. 37(2) of Protocol I
Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 of 8 June 1977 ( 1125 U.N.T.S. 3 )
as ‘acts which are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but
which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not
perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection
under that law’. The same article provides examples of ruses of war: ‘the use of
camouflage, decoys, mock operations and misinformation’.

Most Respectfully,
R

In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)
What happened to those proposed borders?
What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
What happened to the UN control of military forces?
What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?

That should be enough questions to duck for now.

What happened to those proposed borders?

The ones the Arabs didn't accept?

What happened to that separate Jerusalem?

The one the Arabs didn't accept?

What happened to the UN control of military forces?

LOL!

What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?

They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, eh?​

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,

I find it hard to believe, but I guess it is true. Our friend ""will not accept any other version on matters of ground truth, except those that support his position.

Silly conspiracy theories.

(COMMENT)

I directly quoted from the UN Blue Book • History, and he contradicts them with his version of justification.

On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.

That is not true.

His version is the only acceptable version. Nothing the UN produces is reliable; even those facts stipulated as a matter of record for public consumption.

There was proposed territory and borders by the partition plan but the plan was never implemented.

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

So, you can only impress the reality pertaining to the issues at hand so many times before it becomes useless to repeat them to the blind, deaf and dumb.

This is much like the perception that the Arab League carried in the unlawful intervention into the domestic matters undergoing in the Trustee Territory to which the Arab Palestinians emphatically declined to participate in.

Ruses of War are considered permissible: art. 24 of the Hague Convention on
Land Warfare of 1907 ( 205 C.T.S. 277 ). Ruses of war are defined in art. 37(2) of Protocol I
Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 of 8 June 1977 ( 1125 U.N.T.S. 3 )
as ‘acts which are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but
which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not
perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection
under that law’. The same article provides examples of ruses of war: ‘the use of
camouflage, decoys, mock operations and misinformation’.

Most Respectfully,
R

In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)
What happened to those proposed borders?
What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
What happened to the UN control of military forces?
What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?

That should be enough questions to duck for now.

What happened to those proposed borders?

The ones the Arabs didn't accept?

What happened to that separate Jerusalem?

The one the Arabs didn't accept?

What happened to the UN control of military forces?

LOL!

What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?

They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, eh?​

Where is that stupid post button?

 

[Hollie]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,

I find it hard to believe, but I guess it is true. Our friend ""will not accept any other version on matters of ground truth, except those that support his position.

Silly conspiracy theories.

(COMMENT)

I directly quoted from the UN Blue Book • History, and he contradicts them with his version of justification.

On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.

That is not true.

His version is the only acceptable version. Nothing the UN produces is reliable; even those facts stipulated as a matter of record for public consumption.

There was proposed territory and borders by the partition plan but the plan was never implemented.

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

So, you can only impress the reality pertaining to the issues at hand so many times before it becomes useless to repeat them to the blind, deaf and dumb.

This is much like the perception that the Arab League carried in the unlawful intervention into the domestic matters undergoing in the Trustee Territory to which the Arab Palestinians emphatically declined to participate in.

Ruses of War are considered permissible: art. 24 of the Hague Convention on
Land Warfare of 1907 ( 205 C.T.S. 277 ). Ruses of war are defined in art. 37(2) of Protocol I
Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 of 8 June 1977 ( 1125 U.N.T.S. 3 )
as ‘acts which are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but
which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not
perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection
under that law’. The same article provides examples of ruses of war: ‘the use of
camouflage, decoys, mock operations and misinformation’.

Most Respectfully,
R

In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)
What happened to those proposed borders?
What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
What happened to the UN control of military forces?
What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?

That should be enough questions to duck for now.

How many more times do those spam questions need to be addressed?

 

[Hollie]

I suppose the Iranian Mullocrats ordered their flunkies to attack Israel.





IDF ATTACKS HAMAS TARGETS IN GAZA IN RESPONSE TO ROCKET FIRE
By JERUSALEM POST STAFF,REUTERS

Rocket fired from Gaza toward Israel, November 12, 2019. (photo credit:" REUTERS)
Rocket alert sirens were activated in southern Israel on Wednesday afternoon as four rockets were fired from the Gaza Strip into Israel.
The IDF attacked targets in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday evening, hours after four rockets were fired into Israeli territory from Gaza, according to a statement from the IDF Spokesperson's Unit.

Israeli Air Force jets attacked Hamas targets in the northern Strip, including a site for weapons production and a military compound, the spokesperson confirmed.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, P F Tinmore, et al,

I find it hard to believe, but I guess it is true. Our friend ""will not accept any other version on matters of ground truth, except those that support his position.

Silly conspiracy theories.

(COMMENT)

I directly quoted from the UN Blue Book • History, and he contradicts them with his version of justification.

On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan.

That is not true.

His version is the only acceptable version. Nothing the UN produces is reliable; even those facts stipulated as a matter of record for public consumption.

There was proposed territory and borders by the partition plan but the plan was never implemented.

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

So, you can only impress the reality pertaining to the issues at hand so many times before it becomes useless to repeat them to the blind, deaf and dumb.

This is much like the perception that the Arab League carried in the unlawful intervention into the domestic matters undergoing in the Trustee Territory to which the Arab Palestinians emphatically declined to participate in.

Ruses of War are considered permissible: art. 24 of the Hague Convention on
Land Warfare of 1907 ( 205 C.T.S. 277 ). Ruses of war are defined in art. 37(2) of Protocol I
Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 of 8 June 1977 ( 1125 U.N.T.S. 3 )
as ‘acts which are intended to mislead an adversary or to induce him to act recklessly but
which infringe no rule of international law applicable in armed conflict and which are not
perfidious because they do not invite the confidence of an adversary with respect to protection
under that law’. The same article provides examples of ruses of war: ‘the use of
camouflage, decoys, mock operations and misinformation’.

Most Respectfully,
R

In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)
What happened to those proposed borders?
What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
What happened to the UN control of military forces?
What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?

That should be enough questions to duck for now.

What happened to those proposed borders?

The ones the Arabs didn't accept?

What happened to that separate Jerusalem?

The one the Arabs didn't accept?

What happened to the UN control of military forces?

LOL!

What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?

They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, eh?​

Where is that stupid post button?

It's been broken by your pro-terrorism idiocy.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, questions Tinmore, et al,

I'm not going to pretend that I am an expert on mid-20th Century International Politics exercised in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA). That is similar to saying you understand Quantum Mechanics. There are activities and protocols that just defy the understanding of the outcome.

But I would like to point out that none of these questions were ever ducked by me. And I am not ashamed to say that in some cases: I simply do not know the best answer; sometimes even a proper answer.

In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)

1. What happened to those proposed borders?
2. What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
3. What happened to the UN control of military forces?
4. What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
5. What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?

That should be enough questions to duck for now.[/QUOTE]
(ANSWERS)

#1
The originally proposed borders for the Jewish State, as adopted, Part II • Boundaries • Section B, A/RES/181 (II), was immediately over taken by the unlawful events [the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state Chapter I, Article 2(4)] and unilateral events of the Arab League intervention on 15 May 1948. They never recovered to the adoption initial reference points. The Arab League Forces crossed the frontier of their country and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate and transferred to the UN Trustee Program under the provisions of Article 77 of the UN Charter. The boundaries place in jeopardy by Arab League forces became a floating Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) until stabilized by the various Armistice Agreements. The last position of the FEBA became (with minor adjustments) the outline for the Armistice.

#2
This question was “NEVER” ducked. It has been asked and answered every time.The Arab League captured a large part of the City of Jerusalem. The Armistice Lines were based on the UN Cease Fire lines of November, 1948. Discussion between Israel and the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom, aimed at establishing a single demarcation line between the two countries in Jerusalem, have begun in the Jordan-Israeli Mixed Armistice Commission and in the Commission's Special Committee. Press Release PAL/539 29 November 1949.

#3
I did not know that a UN controlled military force was required…
The adopted protocol was that: “The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall, within the shortest time possible, recruit an armed militia from the residents of that State, sufficient in number to maintain internal order and to prevent frontier clashes.
This armed militia in each State shall, for operational purposes, be under the command of Jewish or Arab officers resident in that State, but general political and military control, including the choice of the militia's High Command, shall be exercised by the Commission.”

#4
The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights. Then there are examples of the return of some 200 Arabs to the native village of Wadi Fukin near Bethlehem. PAL/537 4 NOV 49 The first group of Arab refugees from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to be permitted to return to Israel. PAL/544 22 DEC 49 Certainly, when the Arab Palestinians began to incite violence, the national security hammer came down and the reasonable expectation of a return became less likely (the Arab Palestinians shot themselves in the foot).

#5
Israel has a Basic Law that functions as a temporary constitution. This is essential the same as the for the Palestinian Authority until the establishment of an independent state and a permanent constitution for Palestine can be achieved.
​

I don't believe that I can do any of these questions the real justice it deserves. I would need to write a book; or at least a dissertation. One of the basic conundrums is why the humanitarian and political reasons placed political objectives above the needs of the displaced and refugee populations when it is the very justification that is used to pursue armed struggle. I think with the passage of time, some answers have been lost with the passing of the intelligentsia of the day (on both sides). Certainly, I cannot speak for the ghosts and demons of the past.

I do believe that your fixation on the past, even if every single one of your absurd assumptions were true, cannot possibly generate a remedy for the political issue of today. There is just no way that any plan is going to repair and satisfy all the parties to the dispute. And to enunciate that the Arab Palestinians are going to take by force the entirety of the territory formerly under the mandate (from the river to the sea) and that the armed struggle pledged in February 1948 is the only solution (jihad) (armed struggle) is simply going to setback a potential settlement for peace again and again. (Trying answer that will not fit into a niche of a practical realm of possible solutions.)



Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, questions Tinmore, et al,

I'm not going to pretend that I am an expert on mid-20th Century International Politics exercised in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA). That is similar to saying you understand Quantum Mechanics. There are activities and protocols that just defy the understanding of the outcome.

But I would like to point out that none of these questions were ever ducked by me. And I am not ashamed to say that in some cases: I simply do not know the best answer; sometimes even a proper answer.

In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)

1. What happened to those proposed borders?
2. What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
3. What happened to the UN control of military forces?
4. What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
5. What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?

That should be enough questions to duck for now.

(ANSWERS)

#1
The originally proposed borders for the Jewish State, as adopted, Part II • Boundaries • Section B, A/RES/181 (II), was immediately over taken by the unlawful events [the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state Chapter I, Article 2(4)] and unilateral events of the Arab League intervention on 15 May 1948. They never recovered to the adoption initial reference points. The Arab League Forces crossed the frontier of their country and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate and transferred to the UN Trustee Program under the provisions of Article 77 of the UN Charter. The boundaries place in jeopardy by Arab League forces became a floating Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) until stabilized by the various Armistice Agreements. The last position of the FEBA became (with minor adjustments) the outline for the Armistice.

#2
This question was “NEVER” ducked. It has been asked and answered every time.The Arab League captured a large part of the City of Jerusalem. The Armistice Lines were based on the UN Cease Fire lines of November, 1948. Discussion between Israel and the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom, aimed at establishing a single demarcation line between the two countries in Jerusalem, have begun in the Jordan-Israeli Mixed Armistice Commission and in the Commission's Special Committee. Press Release PAL/539 29 November 1949.

#3
I did not know that a UN controlled military force was required…
The adopted protocol was that: “The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall, within the shortest time possible, recruit an armed militia from the residents of that State, sufficient in number to maintain internal order and to prevent frontier clashes.
This armed militia in each State shall, for operational purposes, be under the command of Jewish or Arab officers resident in that State, but general political and military control, including the choice of the militia's High Command, shall be exercised by the Commission.”

#4
The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights. Then there are examples of the return of some 200 Arabs to the native village of Wadi Fukin near Bethlehem. PAL/537 4 NOV 49 The first group of Arab refugees from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to be permitted to return to Israel. PAL/544 22 DEC 49 Certainly, when the Arab Palestinians began to incite violence, the national security hammer came down and the reasonable expectation of a return became less likely (the Arab Palestinians shot themselves in the foot).

#5
Israel has a Basic Law that functions as a temporary constitution. This is essential the same as the for the Palestinian Authority until the establishment of an independent state and a permanent constitution for Palestine can be achieved.
​

I don't believe that I can do any of these questions the real justice it deserves. I would need to write a book; or at least a dissertation. One of the basic conundrums is why the humanitarian and political reasons placed political objectives above the needs of the displaced and refugee populations when it is the very justification that is used to pursue armed struggle. I think with the passage of time, some answers have been lost with the passing of the intelligentsia of the day (on both sides). Certainly, I cannot speak for the ghosts and demons of the past.

I do believe that your fixation on the past, even if every single one of your absurd assumptions were true, cannot possibly generate a remedy for the political issue of today. There is just no way that any plan is going to repair and satisfy all the parties to the dispute. And to enunciate that the Arab Palestinians are going to take by force the entirety of the territory formerly under the mandate (from the river to the sea) and that the armed struggle pledged in February 1948 is the only solution (jihad) (armed struggle) is simply going to setback a potential settlement for peace again and again. (Trying answer that will not fit into a niche of a practical realm of possible solutions.)



Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]

#1
The originally proposed borders for the Jewish State, as adopted, Part II • Boundaries • Section B, A/RES/181 (II), was immediately over taken by the unlawful events [the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state Chapter I, Article 2(4)] and unilateral events of the Arab League intervention on 15 May 1948.

There is a problem with this statement. Before any Arab army entered Palestine, Israel had already cleansed the Palestinians from the proposed Jewish state and was already attacking deep into the proposed Arab state.

It is false narrative to say that Israel was attacked and was defending itself.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, questions Tinmore, et al,

I'm not going to pretend that I am an expert on mid-20th Century International Politics exercised in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA). That is similar to saying you understand Quantum Mechanics. There are activities and protocols that just defy the understanding of the outcome.

But I would like to point out that none of these questions were ever ducked by me. And I am not ashamed to say that in some cases: I simply do not know the best answer; sometimes even a proper answer.

In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)

1. What happened to those proposed borders?
2. What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
3. What happened to the UN control of military forces?
4. What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
5. What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?

That should be enough questions to duck for now.

(ANSWERS)

#1
The originally proposed borders for the Jewish State, as adopted, Part II • Boundaries • Section B, A/RES/181 (II), was immediately over taken by the unlawful events [the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state Chapter I, Article 2(4)] and unilateral events of the Arab League intervention on 15 May 1948. They never recovered to the adoption initial reference points. The Arab League Forces crossed the frontier of their country and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate and transferred to the UN Trustee Program under the provisions of Article 77 of the UN Charter. The boundaries place in jeopardy by Arab League forces became a floating Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) until stabilized by the various Armistice Agreements. The last position of the FEBA became (with minor adjustments) the outline for the Armistice.

#2
This question was “NEVER” ducked. It has been asked and answered every time.The Arab League captured a large part of the City of Jerusalem. The Armistice Lines were based on the UN Cease Fire lines of November, 1948. Discussion between Israel and the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom, aimed at establishing a single demarcation line between the two countries in Jerusalem, have begun in the Jordan-Israeli Mixed Armistice Commission and in the Commission's Special Committee. Press Release PAL/539 29 November 1949.

#3
I did not know that a UN controlled military force was required…
The adopted protocol was that: “The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall, within the shortest time possible, recruit an armed militia from the residents of that State, sufficient in number to maintain internal order and to prevent frontier clashes.
This armed militia in each State shall, for operational purposes, be under the command of Jewish or Arab officers resident in that State, but general political and military control, including the choice of the militia's High Command, shall be exercised by the Commission.”

#4
The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights. Then there are examples of the return of some 200 Arabs to the native village of Wadi Fukin near Bethlehem. PAL/537 4 NOV 49 The first group of Arab refugees from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to be permitted to return to Israel. PAL/544 22 DEC 49 Certainly, when the Arab Palestinians began to incite violence, the national security hammer came down and the reasonable expectation of a return became less likely (the Arab Palestinians shot themselves in the foot).

#5
Israel has a Basic Law that functions as a temporary constitution. This is essential the same as the for the Palestinian Authority until the establishment of an independent state and a permanent constitution for Palestine can be achieved.
​

I don't believe that I can do any of these questions the real justice it deserves. I would need to write a book; or at least a dissertation. One of the basic conundrums is why the humanitarian and political reasons placed political objectives above the needs of the displaced and refugee populations when it is the very justification that is used to pursue armed struggle. I think with the passage of time, some answers have been lost with the passing of the intelligentsia of the day (on both sides). Certainly, I cannot speak for the ghosts and demons of the past.

I do believe that your fixation on the past, even if every single one of your absurd assumptions were true, cannot possibly generate a remedy for the political issue of today. There is just no way that any plan is going to repair and satisfy all the parties to the dispute. And to enunciate that the Arab Palestinians are going to take by force the entirety of the territory formerly under the mandate (from the river to the sea) and that the armed struggle pledged in February 1948 is the only solution (jihad) (armed struggle) is simply going to setback a potential settlement for peace again and again. (Trying answer that will not fit into a niche of a practical realm of possible solutions.)



Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]

The Arab League captured a large part of the City of Jerusalem. The Armistice Lines were based on the UN Cease Fire lines of November, 1948.

Jerusalem was supposedly UN territory in the middle of Arab territory.

Why was Israel even there?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, questions Tinmore, et al,

I'm not going to pretend that I am an expert on mid-20th Century International Politics exercised in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA). That is similar to saying you understand Quantum Mechanics. There are activities and protocols that just defy the understanding of the outcome.

But I would like to point out that none of these questions were ever ducked by me. And I am not ashamed to say that in some cases: I simply do not know the best answer; sometimes even a proper answer.

In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)

1. What happened to those proposed borders?
2. What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
3. What happened to the UN control of military forces?
4. What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
5. What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?

That should be enough questions to duck for now.

(ANSWERS)

#1
The originally proposed borders for the Jewish State, as adopted, Part II • Boundaries • Section B, A/RES/181 (II), was immediately over taken by the unlawful events [the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state Chapter I, Article 2(4)] and unilateral events of the Arab League intervention on 15 May 1948. They never recovered to the adoption initial reference points. The Arab League Forces crossed the frontier of their country and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate and transferred to the UN Trustee Program under the provisions of Article 77 of the UN Charter. The boundaries place in jeopardy by Arab League forces became a floating Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) until stabilized by the various Armistice Agreements. The last position of the FEBA became (with minor adjustments) the outline for the Armistice.

#2
This question was “NEVER” ducked. It has been asked and answered every time.The Arab League captured a large part of the City of Jerusalem. The Armistice Lines were based on the UN Cease Fire lines of November, 1948. Discussion between Israel and the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom, aimed at establishing a single demarcation line between the two countries in Jerusalem, have begun in the Jordan-Israeli Mixed Armistice Commission and in the Commission's Special Committee. Press Release PAL/539 29 November 1949.

#3
I did not know that a UN controlled military force was required…
The adopted protocol was that: “The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall, within the shortest time possible, recruit an armed militia from the residents of that State, sufficient in number to maintain internal order and to prevent frontier clashes.
This armed militia in each State shall, for operational purposes, be under the command of Jewish or Arab officers resident in that State, but general political and military control, including the choice of the militia's High Command, shall be exercised by the Commission.”

#4
The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights. Then there are examples of the return of some 200 Arabs to the native village of Wadi Fukin near Bethlehem. PAL/537 4 NOV 49 The first group of Arab refugees from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to be permitted to return to Israel. PAL/544 22 DEC 49 Certainly, when the Arab Palestinians began to incite violence, the national security hammer came down and the reasonable expectation of a return became less likely (the Arab Palestinians shot themselves in the foot).

#5
Israel has a Basic Law that functions as a temporary constitution. This is essential the same as the for the Palestinian Authority until the establishment of an independent state and a permanent constitution for Palestine can be achieved.
​

I don't believe that I can do any of these questions the real justice it deserves. I would need to write a book; or at least a dissertation. One of the basic conundrums is why the humanitarian and political reasons placed political objectives above the needs of the displaced and refugee populations when it is the very justification that is used to pursue armed struggle. I think with the passage of time, some answers have been lost with the passing of the intelligentsia of the day (on both sides). Certainly, I cannot speak for the ghosts and demons of the past.

I do believe that your fixation on the past, even if every single one of your absurd assumptions were true, cannot possibly generate a remedy for the political issue of today. There is just no way that any plan is going to repair and satisfy all the parties to the dispute. And to enunciate that the Arab Palestinians are going to take by force the entirety of the territory formerly under the mandate (from the river to the sea) and that the armed struggle pledged in February 1948 is the only solution (jihad) (armed struggle) is simply going to setback a potential settlement for peace again and again. (Trying answer that will not fit into a niche of a practical realm of possible solutions.)



Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]

This armed militia in each State shall, for operational purposes, be under the command of Jewish or Arab officers resident in that State, but general political and military control, including the choice of the militia's High Command, shall be exercised by the Commission.”

So, when did this happen?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, questions Tinmore, et al,

I'm not going to pretend that I am an expert on mid-20th Century International Politics exercised in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA). That is similar to saying you understand Quantum Mechanics. There are activities and protocols that just defy the understanding of the outcome.

But I would like to point out that none of these questions were ever ducked by me. And I am not ashamed to say that in some cases: I simply do not know the best answer; sometimes even a proper answer.

In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)

1. What happened to those proposed borders?
2. What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
3. What happened to the UN control of military forces?
4. What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
5. What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?

That should be enough questions to duck for now.

(ANSWERS)

#1
The originally proposed borders for the Jewish State, as adopted, Part II • Boundaries • Section B, A/RES/181 (II), was immediately over taken by the unlawful events [the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state Chapter I, Article 2(4)] and unilateral events of the Arab League intervention on 15 May 1948. They never recovered to the adoption initial reference points. The Arab League Forces crossed the frontier of their country and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate and transferred to the UN Trustee Program under the provisions of Article 77 of the UN Charter. The boundaries place in jeopardy by Arab League forces became a floating Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) until stabilized by the various Armistice Agreements. The last position of the FEBA became (with minor adjustments) the outline for the Armistice.

#2
This question was “NEVER” ducked. It has been asked and answered every time.The Arab League captured a large part of the City of Jerusalem. The Armistice Lines were based on the UN Cease Fire lines of November, 1948. Discussion between Israel and the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom, aimed at establishing a single demarcation line between the two countries in Jerusalem, have begun in the Jordan-Israeli Mixed Armistice Commission and in the Commission's Special Committee. Press Release PAL/539 29 November 1949.

#3
I did not know that a UN controlled military force was required…
The adopted protocol was that: “The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall, within the shortest time possible, recruit an armed militia from the residents of that State, sufficient in number to maintain internal order and to prevent frontier clashes.
This armed militia in each State shall, for operational purposes, be under the command of Jewish or Arab officers resident in that State, but general political and military control, including the choice of the militia's High Command, shall be exercised by the Commission.”

#4
The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights. Then there are examples of the return of some 200 Arabs to the native village of Wadi Fukin near Bethlehem. PAL/537 4 NOV 49 The first group of Arab refugees from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to be permitted to return to Israel. PAL/544 22 DEC 49 Certainly, when the Arab Palestinians began to incite violence, the national security hammer came down and the reasonable expectation of a return became less likely (the Arab Palestinians shot themselves in the foot).

#5
Israel has a Basic Law that functions as a temporary constitution. This is essential the same as the for the Palestinian Authority until the establishment of an independent state and a permanent constitution for Palestine can be achieved.
​

I don't believe that I can do any of these questions the real justice it deserves. I would need to write a book; or at least a dissertation. One of the basic conundrums is why the humanitarian and political reasons placed political objectives above the needs of the displaced and refugee populations when it is the very justification that is used to pursue armed struggle. I think with the passage of time, some answers have been lost with the passing of the intelligentsia of the day (on both sides). Certainly, I cannot speak for the ghosts and demons of the past.

I do believe that your fixation on the past, even if every single one of your absurd assumptions were true, cannot possibly generate a remedy for the political issue of today. There is just no way that any plan is going to repair and satisfy all the parties to the dispute. And to enunciate that the Arab Palestinians are going to take by force the entirety of the territory formerly under the mandate (from the river to the sea) and that the armed struggle pledged in February 1948 is the only solution (jihad) (armed struggle) is simply going to setback a potential settlement for peace again and again. (Trying answer that will not fit into a niche of a practical realm of possible solutions.)



Most Respectfully,
R[/QUOTE]

The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights.

Resolution 181 stated that all Palestinians who normally lived in the territory that becomes the Jewish state shall become citizens of that state. The refugees normally lived there.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ Hollie, questions Tinmore, et al,

I'm not going to pretend that I am an expert on mid-20th Century International Politics exercised in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA). That is similar to saying you understand Quantum Mechanics. There are activities and protocols that just defy the understanding of the outcome.

But I would like to point out that none of these questions were ever ducked by me. And I am not ashamed to say that in some cases: I simply do not know the best answer; sometimes even a proper answer.

In fact, the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

Here are some of my never answered questions. (The questions you always duck.)

1. What happened to those proposed borders?
2. What happened to that separate Jerusalem?
3. What happened to the UN control of military forces?
4. What happened to the Palestinians who were supposed to be Israeli citizens?
5. What happened to the constitution that was supposed to precede statehood?

That should be enough questions to duck for now.

(ANSWERS)

#1
The originally proposed borders for the Jewish State, as adopted, Part II • Boundaries • Section B, A/RES/181 (II), was immediately over taken by the unlawful events [the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state Chapter I, Article 2(4)] and unilateral events of the Arab League intervention on 15 May 1948. They never recovered to the adoption initial reference points. The Arab League Forces crossed the frontier of their country and entered the territory formerly under the Mandate and transferred to the UN Trustee Program under the provisions of Article 77 of the UN Charter. The boundaries place in jeopardy by Arab League forces became a floating Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) until stabilized by the various Armistice Agreements. The last position of the FEBA became (with minor adjustments) the outline for the Armistice.

#2
This question was “NEVER” ducked. It has been asked and answered every time.The Arab League captured a large part of the City of Jerusalem. The Armistice Lines were based on the UN Cease Fire lines of November, 1948. Discussion between Israel and the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom, aimed at establishing a single demarcation line between the two countries in Jerusalem, have begun in the Jordan-Israeli Mixed Armistice Commission and in the Commission's Special Committee. Press Release PAL/539 29 November 1949.

#3
I did not know that a UN controlled military force was required…
The adopted protocol was that: “The Provisional Council of Government of each State shall, within the shortest time possible, recruit an armed militia from the residents of that State, sufficient in number to maintain internal order and to prevent frontier clashes.
This armed militia in each State shall, for operational purposes, be under the command of Jewish or Arab officers resident in that State, but general political and military control, including the choice of the militia's High Command, shall be exercised by the Commission.”

#4
The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights. Then there are examples of the return of some 200 Arabs to the native village of Wadi Fukin near Bethlehem. PAL/537 4 NOV 49 The first group of Arab refugees from the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to be permitted to return to Israel. PAL/544 22 DEC 49 Certainly, when the Arab Palestinians began to incite violence, the national security hammer came down and the reasonable expectation of a return became less likely (the Arab Palestinians shot themselves in the foot).

#5
Israel has a Basic Law that functions as a temporary constitution. This is essential the same as the for the Palestinian Authority until the establishment of an independent state and a permanent constitution for Palestine can be achieved.
​

I don't believe that I can do any of these questions the real justice it deserves. I would need to write a book; or at least a dissertation. One of the basic conundrums is why the humanitarian and political reasons placed political objectives above the needs of the displaced and refugee populations when it is the very justification that is used to pursue armed struggle. I think with the passage of time, some answers have been lost with the passing of the intelligentsia of the day (on both sides). Certainly, I cannot speak for the ghosts and demons of the past.

I do believe that your fixation on the past, even if every single one of your absurd assumptions were true, cannot possibly generate a remedy for the political issue of today. There is just no way that any plan is going to repair and satisfy all the parties to the dispute. And to enunciate that the Arab Palestinians are going to take by force the entirety of the territory formerly under the mandate (from the river to the sea) and that the armed struggle pledged in February 1948 is the only solution (jihad) (armed struggle) is simply going to setback a potential settlement for peace again and again. (Trying answer that will not fit into a niche of a practical realm of possible solutions.)



Most Respectfully,
R

The Arabs who remained in Israel became Israeli citizens with equal voting rights.

Resolution 181 stated that all Palestinians who normally lived in the territory that becomes the Jewish state shall become citizens of that state. The refugees normally lived there.[/QUOTE]

Resolution 181 was never implemented.